CL L Champions League Group H

Valencia 2:1 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Wed, 12 December 2018

Massive Spanner

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I think it's either this game or the fulham game under moyes with all those crosses being fizzed in.
I dunno, at least in that game we were trying to attack for 90 minutes, it was just Moyes diabolical tactics that let us down. That's the difference between Moyes and Mourinho, Moyes clearly wasn't up to the task here and made a complete balls of everything he tried to do but at least he tried to score and win games, Mourinho seems to actually set our team up to not win, which sounds mental, but when you watch the games, makes perfect sense. It's only after 80-85 minutes when we're a goal or two down he goes "ah shit, maybe I should get them to attack now to save my bacon".

I still enjoyed watching us under Moyes because it was still exciting, more so because I felt we could get absolutely thrashed by anyone but at least we might attack and win, this is soul destroying. We are horrendous to watch, we don't attack, we just defend even though our players can't defend for shite.
 

OldPop

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You probably did not understand Mourinho's tactical finesse. After seeing this match, Liverpool will take the chance to rest their top players and we easily win with five goals. I have not understood the tactics either ...

The problem is no one understands Jose anymore. Not even the players and I would suspect he does not understand himself.
Thanks for editing @Foxbatt, it was perfect! :lol:

But it was tricky to get this post so your editing would appear, but I think I've succeeded now.
 
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BlackBen

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Mourinho's post match comments suggests he set the team up to fail. He just wanted to show everyone he was right about the players. He just sat there watching his team fail and not even once did he get up to give out instructions, a stark contrast to what he did on Saturday.

It's a shame a Manchester United manager has this mentality. We need to get rid of him and his toxic energy asap. The players were very disappointing though and I feel like I wasted two hours of my life watching that awful performance.
 
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AlwaysRed66

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I see one of the guys coming out after the game said on a fancam that this was worse than when we got relegated. I am not sure if he is wrong. Sure we won't go down this year, but might in the future if this carries on. The similarities to Busby & SAF aftermath are quite scary.
 

crossy1686

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We finally had Fred Pereira Mata and Pogba on at the same time but still couldnt attack. Shite.
Yeah but, Jose. Doesn't he just want Pogba to look bad to suit his agenda?

We need a fecking overhaul, starting at the very top. We also need to spend about £1b in the current market to get anywhere near competing for anything.
 

Suv666

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@UncleBob great analysis mate. The lack of movement and initiative is shocking. This is basic football, even pub teams pass and move. How is Mourinho still at the helm, I dont understand the club at all. Never before the relationship between the club and fans has been this strained.
 

Charlie Foley

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I'll post this one here as well

For me, there's clearly something wrong with the training and tactics, i don't see any other decent alternatives that would explain the overall lack of movement around the player that has the ball. There's no obvious system in place, which is the normal occurance and not just a result of who plays. Given what we see in matches and what Hazard has said earlier about Mourinho and trainings, it's not exactly unfair to suggest that we're not focusing on movement around the player with the ball.

There were a few decent debates about it in the studio after the match, with clips of what happens when a United midfielder get the ball, how the distance to a teammate increases because we need the player on the ball to create something on his own. It's easily visible when a player is moving down either flank with the ball, how the teammates line up at the edge of the box, waiting for the player to cross the ball so they can go into the box, there's very rarely any passing options.

Alternatively look at the screengrabs below:



There's absolutely no movement as a team. In the first picture, Lingard should be much closer to Ashley Young, Mata should be looking at getting in behind.



In the second picture, Young has passed the ball backwards to Lingard who rolls it to Mata, what are the passing options afterwards. What should happen is that Pereira should move towards Mata to make himself available for the pass, Lingard should continue his run in central to be a passing option for Pereira while Pogba should run into space in front of their box to make himself available to receive a pass from Lingard.

What happens ? Oh, we roll it sideways to Pogba

What passing options does Pogba have ? None, so he lets the ball run sideways to Valencia


Who has no passing options. Pereira should bust a gut to be the forward passing option for Valencia, but it never happens. The only time a player passes the ball and goes on a run to receive it, is when Valencia passes it back to Pogba, Pogba passes it to Valencia again and runs into space but never gets the ball.

Same with the situation i commented on earlier when Pogba had a go with his left foot, there's no passing options:




It's absolutely insane how we fail to take advantage of that situation due to poor movement. :
- Rashford correctly plays the ball to Pereira who makes a bit of a stupid choice when he passes it to Lingard instead of Pogba
-Lingard makes an even worse choice when he slows the tempo further with his pass to Pogba
-to make matters worse, Lingard goes in central instead of staying wide
- end result is that Pogba is closed down by 4 valencia players, while there are two United players ahead of him in Lingard and Rashford who are both operating in the same narrow space, with Pereira as a useless passing option

For me, it's pretty damn obvious that we aren't moving as a team, there should always be a bare minimum of two available players that can receive the pass, which should again create two new options, you constantly move the ball around the pitch creating passing options and you move the ball forward.

We're not doing that at all, and considering it's been the case for quite some time it's difficult to suggest that it's not due to current management.
That was a really good read.

I missed the game so the visuals were really appreciated!
 

Drz

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An excercise in futility if I had ever seen one. Shame.
 

ice-bionic red

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Chose not to watch the game as we were already through. Expected a defeat but typical Juve also lose!

Liverpool will batter us Sunday
 

Paul the Wolf

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Just forced myself to watch the full 90 minutes, I didn't know the result, but could see where the game was going from pretty early on.

No width, no pace, no intensity, no tactics - defence, midfield and attack all poor. Only Rashford livened the game up.

When is Mourinho leaving, did you say?
 

Maticmaker

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How many times have we seen 7 and 8 changes made in the team, and the result is chaos? At times the only thing connecting our players last night was that they all wore the same colour of shirt. At times Fergie use to make a similar scale of changes and the result was the same, we lost, LVG did it infamously against Milton-Keynes, same result. Whatever posses managers to make such sweeping changes and expect cohesion to result?

OK there is a big game on Sunday, players are rested, but the apathy until Rashford and Lingard came on was terrible. Why we ever play Rojo at left back in the sort of back four we have I don't know, left hand side CB, he's half decent but at left back useless. Before anyone tells me he plays at left back for Argentina, that's true, but they have a different team overall to what we have.

It didn't matter, it was a 'dead rubber', etc. all the comments you hear, but what about the fans that travelled to Spain, surely they deserved something better? Every time a team takes to the field wearing United colours and representing the club, we should expect commitment and energy, at the very least, not good enough by a long chalk!
 

Marshal

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That's why I hate Mourinho style, I wish he was never signed. If you don't get to win, then only "the abosulte nothing" is left. If you sign someone like Ancelotti, at least you know you will enjoy your team even if you don't win a single trophy.
 
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steffyr2

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How many times have we seen 7 and 8 changes made in the team, and the result is chaos? At times the only thing connecting our players last night was that they all wore the same colour of shirt. At times Fergie use to make a similar scale of changes and the result was the same, we lost, LVG did it infamously against Milton-Keynes, same result. Whatever posses managers to make such sweeping changes and expect cohesion to result?

OK there is a big game on Sunday, players are rested, but the apathy until Rashford and Lingard came on was terrible. Why we ever play Rojo at left back in the sort of back four we have I don't know, left hand side CB, he's half decent but at left back useless. Before anyone tells me he plays at left back for Argentina, that's true, but they have a different team overall to what we have.

It didn't matter, it was a 'dead rubber', etc. all the comments you hear, but what about the fans that travelled to Spain, surely they deserved something better? Every time a team takes to the field wearing United colours and representing the club, we should expect commitment and energy, at the very least, not good enough by a long chalk!
What I got from that game was that we have the most un-athletic group of athletes ever. They bumble and stumble around the pitch, they're heavy, they're slow. They trip over their own 2 left feet. They lean the wrong way. It's amazing to watch, and not in a good way.
 

Stadjer

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That's why I hate Mourinho style, I wish he was never signed. If you don't get to win, then only "the abosulte nothing" is left. If you sign someone like Ancelotti, at least you know you will enjoy your team even if you don't win a single trophy.
I do agree with this... im not shouting "Mourinho out" but when you sign Mourinho you know you will get boring defensive football BUT win stuff however if he isnt winning there just isnt much left.
 

Buster15

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I watched the last 40 minutes on fast forward. This United squad is one of the worst football teams I've ever seen.
That pretty much sums it up.
We can blame everyone from the manager, coaching staff, Woodward, the Glaziers, the press, Brexit... but the bottom line is that these players just are not good enough and don't try hard enough. Even worse, they are bottlers.

We can change all of the above but at least half of the squad either need to drastically up their game or be moved on.
 

Canagel

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How many times have we seen 7 and 8 changes made in the team, and the result is chaos? At times the only thing connecting our players last night was that they all wore the same colour of shirt. At times Fergie use to make a similar scale of changes and the result was the same, we lost, LVG did it infamously against Milton-Keynes, same result. Whatever posses managers to make such sweeping changes and expect cohesion to result?

OK there is a big game on Sunday, players are rested, but the apathy until Rashford and Lingard came on was terrible. Why we ever play Rojo at left back in the sort of back four we have I don't know, left hand side CB, he's half decent but at left back useless. Before anyone tells me he plays at left back for Argentina, that's true, but they have a different team overall to what we have.

It didn't matter, it was a 'dead rubber', etc. all the comments you hear, but what about the fans that travelled to Spain, surely they deserved something better? Every time a team takes to the field wearing United colours and representing the club, we should expect commitment and energy, at the very least, not good enough by a long chalk!
Because there's no clear philosophy. It shouldn't be like that . Other managers change their teams/change 4 or 5 players but still the fundamentals are the same and every player in the squad knows what his role is . even if they haven't played for a while. We lack cohesiveness even with the regular starters so what do you expect with bit part players? It's even worse
 

Rash Decision

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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46547870

"I expect (better) from my players, especially players that week in, week out, you ask me 'why don't they play?', 'why they don't they start?' the United manager said.

"(It) was a good match to play, a match without any kind of pressure, a match in a competition that everybody likes to play.

"And, in the end, my team improved, really, when I made the changes that I didn't want to make, which is a little bit of frustration because I didn't want to play the three players that I played in the second half."
He's not really trying to hide what he's doing anymore, is he?

- Blamed players whom fans and media wanted him to play
- Credited the players he likes
- Credited himself for making the substitutions.

Basically the whole match was set up as a big "I told you so".
 

Rolaholic

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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46547870



He's not really trying to hide what he's doing anymore, is he?

- Blamed players whom fans and media wanted him to play
- Credited the players he likes
- Credited himself for making the substitutions.

Basically the whole match was set up as a big "I told you so".
He delves more and more into self preservation mode ever week to the detriment of the club. He's become pathetic
 

Cantonagotmehere

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Utter dross. When you saw the fullbacks you knew we would stink up the place. I wish I did not care so much, but through thick and thin as they say.....
 

GiddyUp

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He delves more and more into self preservation mode ever week to the detriment of the club. He's become pathetic
You are right and he's pretty much finished but some players had the opportunity to impress in a match that was set up perfectly for them. Lukaku, Pogba, Jones, Valencia, Young and Fred were shite and proved Mourinho's point.
I back Mourinho because I still think he has it somewhere in him to win but I'm more then happy to see him leave as it's quite obvious he will not get anywhere with these players. I'm disgusted at at least 15 players in our squad, they are so far from being Manchester United players it's embarrassing. Every game 5 or 6 of them have a fecking stinker or as our £75 million forward displays, a total absence of even the basic skills to be called a professional footballer.
Everyone has to shoulder the blame on this one but Ed will chase after the shiniest toy, our next manager will still continue to play Alex Ferguson's league cup defense and we start again. To get out of this quagmire we need to build the squad and tactics around the attack and sign someone at the back, a solid performer and leader who can take the captaincy immediately. And then we concentrate on clearing out the clogged shite that has stunk the room since Moyes.
I am excited to see how this squad performs under a more attack minded manager, someone who doesn't stick to a ridged system of contain like our last 3 managers. Maybe we can be Manchester United again. This won't happen until we all unfriend the club on Facebook because our concerns on football matters mean nothing to Ed and the board.
 

trevor newnham

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they were so bad, but I cannot understand why he didnt throw Greenwood on, give hima taste. His enthusiasm might have galvanised the team. We didnt have any spark until Rashford and Jesse came on
 

DSG

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There has been a lot of noise in the caf about giving Fred a run of games, blaming Jose for not playing him.... Well, he got his chance and he was absolutely dreadful. Looks like 50m wasted to me.

Because this has turned into another “Jose Out” thread comparing the garbage Moyes era, I’d just like to remind everyone that Jose did win a European trophy and a domestic cup, and we did end up in 2nd last season. Far superior to Moyes in terms of results.

That said, he’s still been shite this year and has to go. Now. Valencia is 15th in La Liga ffs.

My prediction is that after we crash out of CL and are eliminated from the top 4, he’ll be canned. Sadly, that will be after the Jan transfer window, and there is no way they are going to buy anyone... sigh.
 

Gandalf

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After sifting through seven pages of this I have formed the following conclusion

1. Jose is crap cos he keeps playing his favorites every week and ignoring the likes of Fred and Pereira
2. Jose is crap because he chose to play the likes of Fred and Pereira and they were shite
3. They were shite because Jose apparently told them to play like crap to prove a point
4. Jose is crap because Paul Pogba can't be arsed to do his job
5. Jose is crap because he plays 2 defensive midfielders so that Pogba doesn't have to take any responsibility
6. Tin foil sales in Manchester have skyrocketed
 

OldPop

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After sifting through seven pages of this I have formed the following conclusion

1. Jose is crap cos he keeps playing his favorites every week and ignoring the likes of Fred and Pereira
2. Jose is crap because he chose to play the likes of Fred and Pereira and they were shite
3. They were shite because Jose apparently told them to play like crap to prove a point
4. Jose is crap because Paul Pogba can't be arsed to do his job
5. Jose is crap because he plays 2 defensive midfielders so that Pogba doesn't have to take any responsibility
6. Tin foil sales in Manchester have skyrocketed
Ingenious!
You made me sacrifice my last post here today, but it's impossible to resist such a terribly fun summary of this thread! Bottoms Up!:lol::lol::lol:
 

shamans

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Me too. Hated Valencia for years. I didn't think we could sign a worse player but we did. Lukaku makes Fellaini look world class. Shit bastard
The annoying part is how he makes a few runs sometimes and it's back to how good of a player it is. Not anymore though as most on here have realized he's shit.

Valencia used to be good but is so so crap and has been for years now.
 

shamans

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After sifting through seven pages of this I have formed the following conclusion

1. Jose is crap cos he keeps playing his favorites every week and ignoring the likes of Fred and Pereira
2. Jose is crap because he chose to play the likes of Fred and Pereira and they were shite
3. They were shite because Jose apparently told them to play like crap to prove a point
4. Jose is crap because Paul Pogba can't be arsed to do his job
5. Jose is crap because he plays 2 defensive midfielders so that Pogba doesn't have to take any responsibility
6. Tin foil sales in Manchester have skyrocketed

We are just fans. He's the manager. Why can't he pick the right players? He had 300 million to spend. What does he have to show for it?
 

Tapori

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After sifting through seven pages of this I have formed the following conclusion

1. Jose is crap cos he keeps playing his favorites every week and ignoring the likes of Fred and Pereira
2. Jose is crap because he chose to play the likes of Fred and Pereira and they were shite
3. They were shite because Jose apparently told them to play like crap to prove a point
4. Jose is crap because Paul Pogba can't be arsed to do his job
5. Jose is crap because he plays 2 defensive midfielders so that Pogba doesn't have to take any responsibility
6. Tin foil sales in Manchester have skyrocketed
Lord of the Musings
Post of the season for me.
 

ravi2

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I watched the highlights of the Ajax v Bayern have and even an extremely washed up klaas Jan huntelaar was playing better as target man than Lukaku was last night isit actually farcical
I saw a you tube compilation of Lukakus touches against Valencia and oh man it is shocking to see bad touch after bad touch, misplaced pass, losing the ball over and over again. He has got to be first out the door in the summer.
 

ravi2

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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46547870



He's not really trying to hide what he's doing anymore, is he?

- Blamed players whom fans and media wanted him to play
- Credited the players he likes
- Credited himself for making the substitutions.

Basically the whole match was set up as a big "I told you so".
He has been more or less daring Woodie to fire him this season so he can collect his pay out and leave laughing all the way to the bank
 

steffyr2

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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46547870



He's not really trying to hide what he's doing anymore, is he?

- Blamed players whom fans and media wanted him to play
- Credited the players he likes
- Credited himself for making the substitutions.

Basically the whole match was set up as a big "I told you so".
Or maybe he just said what he thought. Do you really think that he wouldn't play players if he'd win games with them?

They aren't that good. He played them in a meaningless game, no pressure, and what do you know? They aren't that good.

PS They know they aren't very good. You know they weren't very good. Is Jose supposed to lie?
 

fishfingers15

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YESHHHHH, We'll GOOO for it.
What? I love reruns of Homes Under the Hammer. Love to find out how much they turn over.
Good man. I've never seen Homes under the hammer but I'm guessing it's like the plethora of programs here in HGTV where they remodel or flip houses. Used to hate them but after seeing a few with my wife, now I'm a fan.
 

Verbalkint

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Somehow Jose is at fault for losing a meaningless match that we were already qualified regardless of outcome.:smirk:
No match is meaningless, mate. Maybe one after we've won the English Premier league maybe but that's it.
 

BigBebe

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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46547870



He's not really trying to hide what he's doing anymore, is he?

- Blamed players whom fans and media wanted him to play
- Credited the players he likes
- Credited himself for making the substitutions.

Basically the whole match was set up as a big "I told you so".
He makes me sick, he really does.

Please, will somebody get him out of our club.
 

Posh Red

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Or maybe he just said what he thought. Do you really think that he wouldn't play players if he'd win games with them?

They aren't that good. He played them in a meaningless game, no pressure, and what do you know? They aren't that good.

PS They know they aren't very good. You know they weren't very good. Is Jose supposed to lie?
How did what he said help anyone but himself?
 

X0X Tan

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Mourinho is our manager, we should show our support to him, we are still in CL and league ( mathematically ).

He just need more fund.
 

Player Ratings

4.1 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 255 ratings.

Score Predictions

109,84,147
  • Man Utd win
  • Valencia win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 27% Valencia 1:1 Man Utd
  • 14% Valencia 0:0 Man Utd
  • 11% Valencia 1:2 Man Utd
  • 10% Valencia 0:1 Man Utd
  • 8% Valencia 2:0 Man Utd
  • 7% Valencia 2:1 Man Utd
  • 7% Valencia 1:0 Man Utd
  • 6% Valencia 0:2 Man Utd
  • 3% Valencia 2:2 Man Utd
  • 2% Valencia 1:3 Man Utd
  • 1% Valencia 5:0 Man Utd
  • 1% Valencia 0:5 Man Utd
  • 1% Valencia 3:1 Man Utd
  • 1% Valencia 0:3 Man Utd
  • 0% Valencia 2:3 Man Utd
  • 0% Valencia 4:5 Man Utd
  • 0% Valencia 1:4 Man Utd
  • 0% Valencia 0:4 Man Utd
Compiled from 340 predictions.
Show more results Score Predictions League Table

Match Stats

  1. Valencia
  2. Man Utd
Possession
45% 55%
Shots
11 12
Shots on Target
3 5
Corners
5 5
Fouls
6 23

Referee

Georgi Kabakov