The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

Is Mourinho’s time as United manager up?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2,296 77.1%
  • No

    Votes: 293 9.8%
  • Not yet - needs more time to see if he can turn it around

    Votes: 388 13.0%

  • Total voters
    2,977
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Apokalips

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If we got Zidane, it would once again demonstrate our lack of future planning.

Zidane would never live in Manchester long term. He rejected us as a player because he didn't like the weather.

Hopefully, there's a reason why Leo Jardim has rejected that Chinese job!
What future planning? Who can predict the future? No club plans their next manager far in advance, they go for who is attainable and fits whatever criteria they are looking for.
 

VP89

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I'm not saying it's his teammates' fault per se. At Juventus and the French NT there were other players with the quality to step up and take responsibility if Pogba wasn't having a great game. Conversely we tend to tank if he is having a bad game. We have a few talented youngsters but our senior players are mostly over the hill and not up to scratch. That's the point.

Should a player of his talent and price tag be putting in consistent performances week in week out? Maybe, but then again maybe that's what we've got to work with at this point in time. We ought to have more options than Route 1 to Fellaini when he's not playing well.
I don't think the expectation of Pogba was to only play to his level when he has world class talent around him. Him and Zlatan were brought in to be the types of players that can drag the team further up the pitch and influence other team members to a similar level. Sure any player looks better when surrounded by world class talent, I don't think that's really an argument to mask Pogba's poor performances with.
 

EwanI Ted

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Pogba wasn't expected to be the main man, a midfield leader. Which quite clearly he is not. And in Italy, Juventus can afford to have someone who messes about like Pogba does, they're almost guaranteed to win the league without really trying. The Premier League is a whole different ball game.
The suggestion that Juve weren't a really solid team is a pretty cheap way to underpin the point tbh, and not one Im going to waste time on.

Regarding Pogba, you made the point initially that only winners can succeed under Mourinho. Pogba is clearly a winner. Four league titles, two coppa Italia, a world cup, a Europa league and a League Cup (and the Community Sheid!) makes this an undisputed fact.

As for whether he's a midfield leader, well he's no Roy Keane type player that's for sure, but criticising him for not becoming one is like criticising a player for not growing 6 inches taller. He was never like that at Juve and hasn't ever been like that for us, or for France. Jose might have hoped he would evolve, as we all did, but I can't accept that Jose has any right to be disappointed for Pogba "only" being the player he bought, when that player was one of the most sought after talents in Europe.

Anyway, there are different types of leader. A better comparison for Pogba would be Paul Scholes circa 1999, He's not someone who creates the midfield platform & drives the team, but rather he's someone who can be the creative spark in the final third that others thrive off, and someone who will keep trying to be creative even when its going wrong.

I think the real issue is that Pogba doesnt get on with Jose, simple as that. And now that its all going wrong for Mourinho, he's pointing fingers in every direction as he always does when it goes wrong, and Pogba is on the end of it for no other reason than them not getting on. Arguments about winners and leaders are only there as justification for Mourinho's actions, because without justification his actions seem obviously self serving & petty.
 

Foxbatt

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I think the main issue is that we try to play with two wingers while we do not have two wingers. We should ditch it and play a sort of a diamond with Martial and Rashford/Sanchez up front and Pogba behind them. Then get a holding midfield player better than Matic and play Herrera and if so Fred in midfield on both sides. I would like to see Lindelof play in midfield instead of Matic.
This way Pogba does not have to do much defending in his own box and is free to get into their box a lot more.
 

VP89

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The suggestion that Juve weren't a really solid team is a pretty cheap way to underpin the point tbh, and not one Im going to waste time on.

Regarding Pogba, you made the point initially that only winners can succeed under Mourinho. Pogba is clearly a winner. Four league titles, two coppa Italia, a world cup, a Europa league and a League Cup (and the Community Sheid!) makes this an undisputed fact.

As for whether he's a midfield leader, well he's no Roy Keane type player that's for sure, but criticising him for not becoming one is like criticising a player for not growing 6 inches taller. He was never like that at Juve and hasn't ever been like that for us, or for France. Jose might have hoped he would evolve, as we all did, but I can't accept that Jose has any right to be disappointed for Pogba "only" being the player he bought, when that player was one of the most sought after talents in Europe.

Anyway, there are different types of leader. A better comparison for Pogba would be Paul Scholes circa 1999, He's not someone who creates the midfield platform & drives the team, but rather he's someone who can be the creative spark in the final third that others thrive off, and someone who will keep trying to be creative even when its going wrong.

I think the real issue is that Pogba doesnt get on with Jose, simple as that. And now that its all going wrong for Mourinho, he's pointing fingers in every direction as he always does when it goes wrong, and Pogba is on the end of it for no other reason than them not getting on. Arguments about winners and leaders are only there as justification for Mourinho's actions, because without justification his actions seem obviously self serving & petty.
Serie A was a seriously one horse race during his time there. Juventus would win Serie A by as much as 17 points FFS. Saying he's a winner is technically true but you have to put it in context of the league he was in. Serie A was no way near as competitive as the Premier League is.
 

fellaini's barber

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Used to think people overblow his comments in conferences on here but watched his pre game conference today...feck me he's annoying. He's just talking about how far in quality we are behind the other teams. You'd think we're Burnley the way he moans about lack of spending
 

EwanI Ted

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Serie A was a seriously one horse race during his time there. Juventus would win Serie A by as much as 17 points FFS. Saying he's a winner is technically true but you have to put it in context of the league he was in. Serie A was no way near as competitive as the Premier League is.
You’re suggesting that Serie A was so weak that winning it four times by that many points represents no achievement?
 

VP89

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You’re suggesting that Serie A was so weak that winning it four times by that many points represents no achievement?
I didn't say it's no achievement. It's just extremely watered down when you look at the fact that most of his accolades come from a one horse league.

The World Cup was brilliant, but he was very good in about 4 out of those 7 games. It's not really one to extrapolate from.
 

WensleyMU

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The suggestion that Juve weren't a really solid team is a pretty cheap way to underpin the point tbh, and not one Im going to waste time on.

Regarding Pogba, you made the point initially that only winners can succeed under Mourinho. Pogba is clearly a winner. Four league titles, two coppa Italia, a world cup, a Europa league and a League Cup (and the Community Sheid!) makes this an undisputed fact.

As for whether he's a midfield leader, well he's no Roy Keane type player that's for sure, but criticising him for not becoming one is like criticising a player for not growing 6 inches taller. He was never like that at Juve and hasn't ever been like that for us, or for France. Jose might have hoped he would evolve, as we all did, but I can't accept that Jose has any right to be disappointed for Pogba "only" being the player he bought, when that player was one of the most sought after talents in Europe.

Anyway, there are different types of leader. A better comparison for Pogba would be Paul Scholes circa 1999, He's not someone who creates the midfield platform & drives the team, but rather he's someone who can be the creative spark in the final third that others thrive off, and someone who will keep trying to be creative even when its going wrong.

I think the real issue is that Pogba doesnt get on with Jose, simple as that. And now that its all going wrong for Mourinho, he's pointing fingers in every direction as he always does when it goes wrong, and Pogba is on the end of it for no other reason than them not getting on. Arguments about winners and leaders are only there as justification for Mourinho's actions, because without justification his actions seem obviously self serving & petty.
Winning Serie A for Jive isn't to that dofferdif to Celtic winning the SPL. And no, I am not saying it's as weak as the SPL, but that since there only real competition fell apart into a joke Juve have waltzed the title year after year after year.

Pogba in the PL gets zero time on the ball, he needs to think fast about what he's going to do. Better yet he needs to read the game and know in advance. Where as in Serie A and international football he gets all the time in the world, tonnes of space and can do his thing.

And for the record, winning any league title at any level is an achievement, but let's look at it with some degree of context.

Pogba was given an opportunity here to be the main man, something he clearly wants to be, but he lacks the drive and mindset to be so. Ultimately he's mentally weak. He cannot take criticism and he loses focus. None of this doubts his obvious talent.
 

SteveW

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Used to think people overblow his comments in conferences on here but watched his pre game conference today...feck me he's annoying. He's just talking about how far in quality we are behind the other teams. You'd think we're Burnley the way he moans about lack of spending
He's been in exit strategy mode for 6 months. Belittling the club and players at every opportunity in order to deflect any responsibility from himself. Sadly the club are letting him away with it for the sake of a few million.

So it's allowed to fester. Every interview, game and week that goes by further damages the club and the clubs wider reputation. Players don't want to play for us and our supporters don't even want to watch us. It's all incredibly damaging.
 

Adam-Utd

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One would think Mourinho were Goldilocks, needing everything to be just right in order for his team to play some competent football.
Good desciption actually :lol:

From now on he’s known as moanylocks
 

EwanI Ted

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Winning Serie A for Jive isn't to that dofferdif to Celtic winning the SPL. And no, I am not saying it's as weak as the SPL, but that since there only real competition fell apart into a joke Juve have waltzed the title year after year after year.

Pogba in the PL gets zero time on the ball, he needs to think fast about what he's going to do. Better yet he needs to read the game and know in advance. Where as in Serie A and international football he gets all the time in the world, tonnes of space and can do his thing.

And for the record, winning any league title at any level is an achievement, but let's look at it with some degree of context.

Pogba was given an opportunity here to be the main man, something he clearly wants to be, but he lacks the drive and mindset to be so. Ultimately he's mentally weak. He cannot take criticism and he loses focus. None of this doubts his obvious talent.
The argument about not peforming in the PL would only make sense if Pogba has failed to perform at any point in his United career, but he’s probably been our best midfielder since we got him and he’s been the outstanding player in games plenty of times, so that’s clearly not the case. His form fluctuates but that’s normal for all but the best of the best. This season is the first extended run of poor form, and the entire squad has been in dreadful form this year, so I fail to see how his individual failings should be blamed as opposed to a failure of the collective.
 

Adam-Utd

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The argument about not peforming in the PL would only make sense if Pogba has failed to perform at any point in his United career, but he’s probably been our best midfielder since we got him and he’s been the outstanding player in games plenty of times, so that’s clearly not the case. His form fluctuates but that’s normal for all but the best of the best. This season is the first extended run of poor form, and the entire squad has been in dreadful form this year, so I fail to see how his individual failings should be blamed as opposed to a failure of the collective.
People like @WensleyMU and @VP89 talk like Pogba has been poor his whole career, and it’s only him letting the side down.

The fact is the whole team looks lost and unmotivated. Whether it’s all down to Mourinho or not it’s impossible to say until we make a change. I’m not sure why the board are letting this extend, maybe a lack of options. I fear though the longer it does go on the damage could send us even deeper than after Moyes.
 

Random Task

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People like @WensleyMU and @VP89 talk like Pogba has been poor his whole career, and it’s only him letting the side down.

The fact is the whole team looks lost and unmotivated. Whether it’s all down to Mourinho or not it’s impossible to say until we make a change. I’m not sure why the board are letting this extend, maybe a lack of options. I fear though the longer it does go on the damage could send us even deeper than after Moyes.
It's difficult to assess any of our players in terms of their ability when they are asked to perform in a dysfunctional system and under a manager who constantly belittles them.
 

VP89

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People like @WensleyMU and @VP89 talk like Pogba has been poor his whole career, and it’s only him letting the side down.

The fact is the whole team looks lost and unmotivated. Whether it’s all down to Mourinho or not it’s impossible to say until we make a change. I’m not sure why the board are letting this extend, maybe a lack of options. I fear though the longer it does go on the damage could send us even deeper than after Moyes.
No I don't.
 

Drz

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These kind of arguments melt my melon man. We shouldn’t have gone to war with Iraq either. That we did, isn’t an excuse for sticking out the endless clusterfeck that followed!... That’s how Naz...erm, Trump’s America started!... (probably.)

Some of the innumerable problems with that are... for example...

a) He’s been here for 3 years now and can field virtually an entire XI of his own players... augmented by his obvious favourites like Fellaini & Young (whom he could replace, but consistently resists doing) What part of that is unfinished? And if it isn’t, whose fault is it?

b) If the likes of Pep, Klopp, Emery, Sarri (and every other 2nd Chelsea manager since 2010, for that matter) can noticeably improve the fortunes, confidence and playing style of a struggling top tier side with a mish mash of good but underperforming players, within half a season or so... which half of the 5 half seasons Jose has spent here, has you convinced he can improve further on the consistently awful, anti-style non-football we’ve seen so far?

c) If our squad is as shit and mid-table as he says, and reaching 2nd was the unfathomably monumental managerial achievement he claims... how exactly does that disprove the idea that a squad is only as good as it’s manager? Or that a new, more motivated manager - who doesn’t throw his entire team under the bus and call them shit at every turn - couldn’t perceivably change our fortunes for the better, by, I dunno, maybe not doing those things? If it was the genius of our manager that got this apparently horrendous £400m squad to drastically overachieve, why isn’t it the same manager’s fault that the same squad is now drastically underachieving? And if it isn’t, why do we even need a manager at all? Let alone such an expensive, elite, personality-cultivating one? What is it we're paying for, or being slavishly loyal to, exactly?

b - ii) And if it was only Fergie’s genius that allowed us to continue being successful and competitive under the Glazers, and miraculously won us the League with the exact same squad that Moyes took to 6th.... how (again!) does that work in favour of the notion that any manager is automatically doomed to fail in our set up? Isn’t the entire reason we hired Jose because he was in the same Fergie-bracket of uniquely brilliant formative bosses? That could get us back into the big time through his own managerial brilliance, without us needing to throw money at any old journeyman schmoe, like Chelsea, or City. And if that wasn't the point, then again (AGAIN!) why did we hire him!? Any manager can complain about City’s Arab state sponsored spending, but you don't hire Jose fecking Mourinho for him to complain about how it's preventing him from competing with the likes of fecking Spurs! Who didn't sign a single fecking player this summer!

c) If the fact he’s historically been a winner at other clubs, is the thing you’re clinging to as the reason he could still, maybe, turn it around here...then why doesn’t the fact that he’s self imploded at every same club in his 3rd season, and is an entirely unknown quantity at this stage in his historical tenure, not an equally importantly 'factual' touchstone?

d) Even if he could potentially salvage his time here...what costs are you willing to except? He fell out with Ronaldo at Madrid, Hazard at Chelsea, and Pogba and Martial here... the other 2 chose the players over him, and almost immediately recovered... if we do “let him finish” what do you envisage that finished product being, exactly? ‘Cos by current accounts, it’s a team of Fellainis, Lukakus and Matic’s, where Willian replaces Martial, who becomes the new Salah or De Bruyne at Juve or wherever, and the likes of Periera, Gomes and Chong become the new Pogbas, leaving for pastures new. Is that the team you want?

And more than that, the very high profile nature of our hideous, formless, undead anti-style under Jose, means even the kind of players we’d usually attract as Manchester United, are beginning to turn away because of it. I don't know whether the summer gossip about Mbappe saying he didn't want to come here under Jose is true (probably not) but if you were Mbappe, or a Dembele, or a Greizmann, would you want to play for us right now?.. I mean, if Messi decided to leave Barca tomorrow, how high on his list d’you reckon we’d be? Then think how much higher the allure of a Pep or a Klopp, is? Why would any new Ronaldo/Rooney-esque talents want to play for Jose's Manchester United? Whatever our results, isn’t that somewhat of a fecking problem!?

The double edged sword of being the so called “biggest club in the world” is that our in-house issues are huge global news. The World knows we’re a shit show. And even if by some miracle Jose gets us back to the top in the long term, what effect will that have on us as a club? Or as a (**hock, spit**) brand? If he’s allowed to sell all our flair players for a squad of Ent-like try hards, and we shithouse our way to a title.... then what? Do we become the football version of the Decepticons? Replacing our buccaneering legacy with one of forcible functionality? And what does the next manager after him do, with an empty Academy and an aging team of aggressive loyal oversized 29 year olds? What does sticking with him actually mean?

I was over the moon when we signed Mourinho, but I was wrong. So, so wrong. And I’m sorry. @Wumminator was right. He should be allowed to flagellate half the forum, in truth. And I’d take it. Gladly. Like the bad, bad boy I am...Like we all were. Forgive us. We knew not what we did.

(I may be a little drunk, fwiw)

The situation in a nutshell. Bravo.
Knew there weren't just bad drunks out there.
 

BlueHaze

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Right, so I've heard this rumour today from someone whose mate works at Old Trafford (that old chestnut)

Now of course normal protocol applies with rumours (pinch of salt, probably bullshit, etc.) but whatever, just thought I'd share it just to pass the time.

Let me just clarify - I don't believe this rumour.

But anyway, here goes. There's a rumour going round Old Trafford that:

  • The board has agreed a 12 million pound severance package for Mourinho to leave in January.

  • Mourinho is going to Real Madrid.

  • And we're getting Zidane.

There we go. Hope that warms your cockles on this Winter's day. Even though it most likely is nonsense.
Whoever created that rumour is on some good crack. First of all I can't for the life of me imagine why Madrid would want Mourinho. Perez sacked him at a point in his career where he was a 10 times better manager than what he is now. He sacked him due to the exact thing he is doing here right now, creating a highly toxic environment, dividing the dressing room and topping it of with pathetic results. So why the hell would Perez want him now when he is only a shadow of the man he used to be. Second of all why the heck would Zidane want to come in january to club thats in a terrible state? Some rumours just have so much shite written over them that you could smell them from another planet.
 

BlueHaze

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I will never understand why they wait until top 4 is gone to sack him when they can just get rid of him now and prevent further damage done to the club. It's ironic how Hughes got sacked for a point against us but Mourinho is allowed to carry on with this circus.
 
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Sentient Meat

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This quote never gets old.:D
I have no problem with the majority who respectfully express their opinions and rationale why Mourinho should go.

Some have made solid points that make sense to me.

However, many of the posts sound like angry venting and mob bullying by people who belittle anyone who don't think like they do.

There is no mob of Mourinho supporters... at least not in the last several pages. There are a few people who dare express a different opinion who are insulted and characterized as Trump voters.

I get the anger, I'm angry too at the team's performances of late... especially at Valencia.

But let's change the thread title to the Mourinho out thread and rid ourselves of the notion of a fair and civil discourse if you don't want anyone speaking up against your positions.

The whole point of the thread was to discuss "Should Mourinho go or not?" But clearly any opinion implying he should stay is no longer welcome.
 

Kapardin

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In his own analogy, to build a good house, you not only need new furniture, but also need to replace outdated furniture. So basically, he has to go.
 

Fracture90

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I have no problem with the majority who respectfully express their opinions and rationale why Mourinho should go.

Some have made solid points that make sense to me.

However, many of the posts sound like angry venting and mob bullying by people who belittle anyone who don't think like they do.

There is no mob of Mourinho supporters... at least not in the last several pages. There are a few people who dare express a different opinion who are insulted and characterized as Trump voters.

I get the anger, I'm angry too at the team's performances of late... especially at Valencia.

But let's change the thread title to the Mourinho out thread and rid ourselves of the notion of a fair and civil discourse if you don't want anyone speaking up against your positions.

The whole point of the thread was to discuss "Should Mourinho go or not?" But clearly any opinion implying he should stay is no longer welcome.
Think the problem stems from select few trying to attribute us being crap to anything and anyone other than Mourinho.
 

Sentient Meat

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Think the problem stems from select few trying to attribute us being crap to anything and anyone other than Mourinho.
And some manage to articulate that without insulting those who have a different opinion and calling them Trump voters or trolling bots.

I've calmly and respectfully explained my points without the need to call others idiots.

I been on dozens of boards where people were way more hostile so that part doesn't really bother me.

However, I do want people to explain more about what we are likely to see once Jose is gone.

So far few have even tried to answer this... instead focusing their comments on the inherent stupidity of those who don't think like they do. They believe all will become clear as soon as he's gone. And perhaps it might... but I'd like more specifics as opposed to blind faith in a vague plan.
 

Fracture90

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And some manage to articulate that without insulting those who have a different opinion and calling them Trump voters or trolling bots.

I've calmly and respectfully explained my points without the need to call others idiots.

I been on dozens of boards where people were way more hostile so that part doesn't really bother me.

However, I do want people to explain more about what we are likely to see once Jose is gone.

So far few have even tried to answer this... instead focusing their comments on the inherent stupidity of those who don't think like they do. They believe all will become clear as soon as he's gone. And perhaps it might... but I'd like more specifics as opposed to blind faith in a vague plan.
Any discussion losses it's meaning when one side is willing to resort to imagining stuff only so that they can keep their idea alive. One instance of that is posters constantly trying to portrait our squad quality as being utter shiit and a midt-table team, judging our players on the current form rather than the quality they possess.
 

SteveJ

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In his own analogy, to build a good house, you not only need new furniture...


"When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That one sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp... "
 

Fracture90

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Probably the most infuriating thing regarding those defending Mourinho is when you analyze their defense of Mourinho you come to conclusion that Mourinho needed perfect conditions for minimal results.
 

Sentient Meat

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Any discussion losses it's meaning when one side is willing to resort to imagining stuff only so that they can keep their idea alive. One instance of that is posters constantly trying to portrait our squad quality as being utter shiit and a midt-table team, judging our players on the current form rather than the quality they possess.
Jose warned us that the defence wasn't adequate.

Some here have said his negativity became a self fulfilling prophecy and poisoned the squad's mentality and spirit.

Do you think the defence has been adequate?

Do you believe with Pochettino or Zidane installed as manager we would have allowed less goals?

Maybe Valencia would play better because he looks like he's done with Jose... but I think most have tried and just aren't good enough.

Shaw who was mistreated by Jose the most, is playing the best. Dalot has been playing well. Even Lindelof has improved recently.

But I don't think Jones kicked that own goal in because he's unhappy with Jose.

I think Jose's correct in his assessment of the defence.
 

red woppit

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I think the main issue is that we try to play with two wingers while we do not have two wingers. We should ditch it and play a sort of a diamond with Martial and Rashford/Sanchez up front and Pogba behind them. Then get a holding midfield player better than Matic and play Herrera and if so Fred in midfield on both sides. I would like to see Lindelof play in midfield instead of Matic.
This way Pogba does not have to do much defending in his own box and is free to get into their box a lot more.
Almost exactly what I suggested back in November, but with Pereira in that so called defensive midfield position. The way I see it the midfield is much more mobile, and can pretty much work as a unit, with Pereira as the creative one, and Fred and Herrera the workhorses, Pogba would then be free of any defensive duties, and would be the launchpad for a counter attack, using Rashford and Martials pace to get the opposition's defence on the turn. All three midfield players are reasonably quick, and all can tackle and harass the opposition, which should give the defence time to organise themselves.
 

dove

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And some manage to articulate that without insulting those who have a different opinion and calling them Trump voters or trolling bots.

I've calmly and respectfully explained my points without the need to call others idiots.

I been on dozens of boards where people were way more hostile so that part doesn't really bother me.

However, I do want people to explain more about what we are likely to see once Jose is gone.

So far few have even tried to answer this... instead focusing their comments on the inherent stupidity of those who don't think like they do. They believe all will become clear as soon as he's gone. And perhaps it might... but I'd like more specifics as opposed to blind faith in a vague plan.
Hopefully someone who would lift the morale of the squad and encourage the players instead of throwing them under the bus at every opportunity. Someone who would be positive and suit a philosophy of a big club. Currently we are just a rich Stoke City from Pulis era. We choose players based on their height, not skill. It's not Manchester United (or in fact any club calling themselves "one of the biggest in the world"). He doesn't want to be here, majority of fans don't want him here, players don't want him here and even the board probably don't want him here (but obviously money is more important to us than results so he won't be sacked until it's cheapest to do it). It's just delaying the inevitable. Tomorrow we will be closer to relegation than TOP 2 possibly having a negative GD after 17 matches. What else is there to say really.
 

MDFC Manager

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In his own analogy, to build a good house, you not only need new furniture, but also need to replace outdated furniture. So basically, he has to go.
He's more like a dead rat. It's already started to stink the house, and if we don't get rid, there will be maggots and risk of diseases.


"When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That one sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, and then sank into the swamp... "
Ah that's explains the three fingers
 

Sentient Meat

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Hopefully someone who would lift the morale of the squad and encourage the players instead of throwing them under the bus at every opportunity. Someone who would be positive and suit a philosophy of a big club. Currently we are just a rich Stoke City from Pulis era. We choose players based on their height, not skill. It's not Manchester United (or in fact any club calling themselves "one of the biggest in the world"). He doesn't want to be here, majority of fans don't want him here, players don't want him here and even the board probably don't want him here (but obviously money is more important to us than results so he won't be sacked until it's cheapest to do it). It's just delaying the inevitable. Tomorrow we will be closer to relegation than TOP 2 possibly having a negative GD after 17 matches. What else is there to say really.
I agree he's gone too far recently, which probably means he's gone.

But he wasn't wrong when he said we needed defensive reinforcements at the beginning of the campaign.

I also felt like the players were trying until the Valencia game, where it seemed maybe the last of the spirit had gone.

We'll know more after the Liverpool game.
 

dove

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I agree he's gone too far recently, which probably means he's gone.

But he wasn't wrong when he said we needed defensive reinforcements at the beginning of the campaign.

I also felt like the players were trying until the Valencia game, where it seemed maybe the last of the spirit had gone.

We'll know more after the Liverpool game.
Yes, we need defensive reinforcements but it's hardly an excuse to be that shite. No team is perfect, you can find weaknesses in every team. However I just absolutely hate when the manager cries like a baby when he doesn't get something. Poch got no new players at all but he just moves on and does his job with the player he has. What does Jose do instead? Cry to media, basically say our team is shit and we should be thankful to him we are as high as 6th etc etc. I am tired of all the excuses.
 

Fracture90

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Jose warned us that the defence wasn't adequate.

Some here have said his negativity became a self fulfilling prophecy and poisoned the squad's mentality and spirit.

Do you think the defence has been adequate?

Do you believe with Pochettino or Zidane installed as manager we would have allowed less goals?

Maybe Valencia would play better because he looks like he's done with Jose... but I think the rest have tried and just aren't good enough.

Shaw who was mistreated by Jose the most, is playing the best. Dalot has been playing well. Even Lindelof has improved recently.

But I don't think Jones kicked that own goal in because he's unhappy with Jose.

I think Jose's correct in his assessment of the defence.
But that only highlights the biggest issue, him believing that improvement can only be achieved through mindless spending and never-ending purchases. Why can't he improve and develop the players he's bought? He already made 2 CB signings and instead of developing and improving them, showing us why he decided to buy them in the first place, he seems happy to just shun them to the side and asks for another CB.

It's our system that makes our defence the issue. By allowing the opposition to develop their game and build-up whilst we sit back and try to soak the pressure, we're exposing our whole team, back line especially, to extra pressure because we're forced to defend a lot more.

Defense was more than adequate last season though? How is it possible everything fell apart in such a short period of time? Besides our problem wasn't defense but attack, more precisely our tumescent style making us disjointed and impotent going forward and I don't buy "we can't attack without good defense" excuse because we saw teams with worse defense playing attacking football and bagging in goals.
 

Beaucoup

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if Mourinho manages to last the season, which at the moment is a big “if” I honestly think he will be totally ruthless and turn it round.
 

AltiUn

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if Mourinho manages to last the season, which at the moment is a big “if” I honestly think he will be totally ruthless and turn it round.
That'd be the dream. Problem for me is that all his faith seem to be in players that aren't exactly going to get us winning again.
 

Vadim

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Anyone who thinks Jose Mourinho can turn this round and have us challenging again is fecking deluded and you’re damaging the club by even considering the notion that the Portuguese Pulis needs even more time and money.

If Jose was managing Liverpool or City we’d all be loving it and hoping that he would stay there as long as possible.

I remember Dalglish’s last stint at Liverpool. There was a section of their fanbase that swore blind he was still the man to turn their fortunes around and get them back to their best. Of course, any sane football fan could see that Dalglish was a washed up dinosaur living on past glories and I was absolutely gutted when they sacked him.

If you can’t see similarities between that and our very own situation then you’re a José Mourinho fanboy and fanboys aren’t healthy in football.

Or you’re still clinging onto the fact that Inter Jose will return. That Jose Mourinho doesn’t exist and he’s done at the top level.

The quicker he fecks off the better and good riddance, he won’t be missed.
 

Celoti23-81

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But that only highlights the biggest issue, him believing that improvement can only be achieved through mindless spending and never-ending purchases. Why can't he improve and develop the players he's bought? He already made 2 CB signings and instead of developing and improving them, showing us why he decided to buy them in the first place, he seems happy to just shun them to the side and asks for another CB.

It's our system that makes our defence the issue. By allowing the opposition to develop their game and build-up whilst we sit back and try to soak the pressure, we're exposing our whole team, back line especially, to extra pressure because we're forced to defend a lot more.

Defense was more than adequate last season though? How is it possible everything fell apart in such a short period of time? Besides our problem wasn't defense but attack, more precisely our tumescent style making us disjointed and impotent going forward and I don't buy "we can't attack without good defense" excuse because we saw teams with worse defense playing attacking football and bagging in goals.
Exactly. People seem to forget the Guardiola Barcelona team that had a defence consisting of Mascherano, Pique and a right back who was never at right back in Alves. Mourinho knew he didn't have a team to compete with City, in turn turned our season into a sh** show to protect himself and made us a mid-tale side to prove something to the board that if he doesn't get the signings he needs he will sabotage the Glazers champions league places.
 

Sentient Meat

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But that only highlights the biggest issue, him believing that improvement can only be achieved through mindless spending and never-ending purchases. Why can't he improve and develop the players he's bought? He already made 2 CB signings and instead of developing and improving them, showing us why he decided to buy them in the first place, he seems happy to just shun them to the side and asks for another CB.

It's our system that makes our defence the issue. By allowing the opposition to develop their game and build-up whilst we sit back and try to soak the pressure, we're exposing our whole team, back line especially, to extra pressure because we're forced to defend a lot more.

Defense was more than adequate last season though? How is it possible everything fell apart in such a short period of time? Besides our problem wasn't defense but attack, more precisely our tumescent style making us disjointed and impotent going forward and I don't buy "we can't attack without good defense" excuse because we saw teams with worse defense playing attacking football and bagging in goals.
No matter how much you dislike Jose... you can't deny he has a brilliant football mind.

For some reason he knew what he had wasn't going to challenge City for the title with those defenders.

Maybe he knew he did it with smoke and mirrors last year.

It's one thing if the defence went to shambles and then he made excuses after the fact.

He said in advance that we were undermanned and he was correct.

I agree he's being too negative and destroying morale at this point... but would Zidane be any different? The man who headbutts a player in a World Cup final?

We don't know how Zidane reacts with a team playing as poorly as this one, but my guess is that he wouldn't be much more pleasant.

We've only seen Zidane with arguably the best or second best team in the world. Can he build a tenth best team to the first?

And Zidane is my personal first choice to take over... mostly because I love him as a player... but also because Pochettino hasn't shown the ability to win much though I think he's a good manager.
 
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