It's a learning experience for him too. How many European games has he managed? Not many i guess. He knew he should have shuffled things when it was not working. Our best bet is that he'll learn from these mistakes.
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer | W15 D2 L4
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
I hate goldfish. In my experience, they keep dying whether you feed them or not, and are not very exciting to watch. Your daughter will be even more disappointed with them if you introduce the fable element.
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I think that appointing Solskjaer as permanent manager based on two months is a ridiculous idea. I know it will be an unpopular opinion, but I do not think we have actually played that well in the games under Solskjaer. I believe if these performances happened under Mourinho there would be a lot more negativity on here (hell, there was massive negativity about us finishing second last season). The Tottenham game for me is a prime example: we only really created one chance and scored whilst Tottenham pinned us in our own half and had a load of chances that they spurned with poor finishing.
This was seen as a positive result on here, but had that been under Mourinho there would be massive amounts of negativity as there was following the win against Juventus this season. I just find there is a lot of moving of the goal posts regarding performances and this seems to be just because he is a club legend and caretaker manager. Solskjaer should be judged like any other manager and there should be no leeway.
Our performances have been really poor recently in particular. I thought we ok against Fulham (an atrocious team); we were really poor against Leiecester and Burnley; we were awful against PSG (This team should be creating at least one good chance, especially when PSG did not even play all that well). On top of that, we were also not great against Newcastle. I do not believe we have really had a standout performance under Solskjaer. We did well beating relegation fodder by a few goals, but again this seems to have dried up.
Regarding team quality, you have to remember that this exact team (minus Fred, which would be relevant if he actually played) were able to get 13/15 points against Man City, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal and Liverpool in the second half of last season under Mourinho. The team is certainly not up to standard, but it is good enough to win against the other top teams and should be at minimum creating good chances against them.
This was seen as a positive result on here, but had that been under Mourinho there would be massive amounts of negativity as there was following the win against Juventus this season. I just find there is a lot of moving of the goal posts regarding performances and this seems to be just because he is a club legend and caretaker manager. Solskjaer should be judged like any other manager and there should be no leeway.
Our performances have been really poor recently in particular. I thought we ok against Fulham (an atrocious team); we were really poor against Leiecester and Burnley; we were awful against PSG (This team should be creating at least one good chance, especially when PSG did not even play all that well). On top of that, we were also not great against Newcastle. I do not believe we have really had a standout performance under Solskjaer. We did well beating relegation fodder by a few goals, but again this seems to have dried up.
Regarding team quality, you have to remember that this exact team (minus Fred, which would be relevant if he actually played) were able to get 13/15 points against Man City, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal and Liverpool in the second half of last season under Mourinho. The team is certainly not up to standard, but it is good enough to win against the other top teams and should be at minimum creating good chances against them.
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One of my worries is Ole and his team have been very slow to react every time things haven't been going our way. In game management is so important especially at the top level.
I don't think Ferguson would have won last night. They were better. I like the honesty of Ole at the end too. Didn't attack our players like the other parasite would have. He just accepted they won on the night. Move on to Chelsea and hopefully we go into the return leg against PSG having learnt a little bit.
Whether Ole will get the job or not, we'll have to wait and see. I think give him to the end of the season and then make a decision. Even if it's just a rolling year to year contract he gets, I think we need to take it slowly with him.
Whether Ole will get the job or not, we'll have to wait and see. I think give him to the end of the season and then make a decision. Even if it's just a rolling year to year contract he gets, I think we need to take it slowly with him.
More than anything, I'd like to keep Ole just to see the summer clear-out. Getting a new manager will bring the "I want to see the players in action first" excuse and then we'll scramble for Alderweireld and pay double his release clause (somehow) for him on deadline day when it turns out that our defenders aren't good enough.
Ole, having been here for half a season, will have a clear idea of who he sees staying and who he sees leaving, with specific targets to replace them in mind.
The shedding of the deadwood has to be an ongoing project, because we'll be looking for players in the £50m bracket to replace the deadwood, and it simply has to start in the summer if we want to compete within two years. It's not as easy as some of you are suggesting, just dropping 20 players from the squad and replacing them with better players.
Ole, having been here for half a season, will have a clear idea of who he sees staying and who he sees leaving, with specific targets to replace them in mind.
The shedding of the deadwood has to be an ongoing project, because we'll be looking for players in the £50m bracket to replace the deadwood, and it simply has to start in the summer if we want to compete within two years. It's not as easy as some of you are suggesting, just dropping 20 players from the squad and replacing them with better players.
Tbh, We cannot really afford to take lot of these " learning risks". We need someone who is good enough and steady the ship . Losing is fine but the manner in which we lost is where the problem was. It was Jose all again.He looked really clueless.
Remember, Napoli and Liverpool got better results against a much better PSG team.
Ole has done great until now but next few weeks is extremely crucial. If we lose the big games same way as yesterday , we will have to say Ole is not ready to take over.
There is an element of 20/20 hindsight here. Maybe if he brought Lukaku on we'd have still lost and people would be saying Mata might have been the better choice.
Also, there were moments in the first half where the camera was on Tuchel and it reminded me of that infamous gif of Moyes throwing his arms up in despair, often used as evidence that the guy had no idea what he was doing. If we hadnt let in that first sloppy goal, if we hadnt had that double injury and had got ourselves ahead early in the second half, the game could have panned out very differently. And today the Ole train would still be very much on the rails, and Tuchel would be facing questions about his own leadership.
It was one game. We have to see what happens in coming weeks and not get too carried away in our reactions.
Also, there were moments in the first half where the camera was on Tuchel and it reminded me of that infamous gif of Moyes throwing his arms up in despair, often used as evidence that the guy had no idea what he was doing. If we hadnt let in that first sloppy goal, if we hadnt had that double injury and had got ourselves ahead early in the second half, the game could have panned out very differently. And today the Ole train would still be very much on the rails, and Tuchel would be facing questions about his own leadership.
It was one game. We have to see what happens in coming weeks and not get too carried away in our reactions.
We had proven winner in Jose and it did not end well did it. We cannot judge the result based on 10 games Ole has managed. Livepool and Napoli were playing under their respective managers for years. Ole joined us during Christmas this year. There is a steep difference between the two. First off all we need to be a major force domestically before we could think of Europe. That should be our only ambition for now. The current team is not capable of handling multiple competitions. We need quality in so many positions.
Ancelotti took over Napoli only last summer and they played PSG back in Sep/ Oct. Thats with in 2-3 months of new manager regime . Were they as clueless as us? Or do they have a better team than us?
PSG came with a plan and executed it very well. Unfortunately i just couldn't see any plan in our game.
Those are rhetorical questions, right?
Either that or you can't have watched either Manchester United or Napoli for the whole of last season...
First half we were fairly evenly matched. Our plan was torn to shreds with the double injury. Yes it would have been nice to have a better plan b, but losing two players at once was a hell of a blow and I dont know that a more experienced manager could have done much better.
I would probably have brought on Sanchez and Lukaku but either way I would have been banking on Sanchez delivering a performance, and he didnt. If our best paid player isnt going to dig us out of a hole in a situation like that, we need to look at that.
I would probably have brought on Sanchez and Lukaku but either way I would have been banking on Sanchez delivering a performance, and he didnt. If our best paid player isnt going to dig us out of a hole in a situation like that, we need to look at that.
Difference being Napoli had a good team with good chemistry. They were fighting Juventus for the tittle last year. Meanwhile our team was stuck with a civil war between the players and manager. I can't understand why you don't see the difference between us and Napoli or Liverpool.
Not really, was trying to reiterate the point that Ole was tactically outclassed. It just doesn't have anything to do with team's quality as multiple teams proved that PSG are very much beatable away from home.
Impossible to judge him just yet imo and that is why I always say let's wait till end of season. We still have obvious issues and I want to see if Ole can fix them over the next 3 months.
Yesterday was disappointing, also from Ole. However, first loss in 12 games is still rather good. Lets see how we do in the next 3 games
Yesterday was disappointing, also from Ole. However, first loss in 12 games is still rather good. Lets see how we do in the next 3 games
It’s obviously got to do with quality. What other teams - that aren’t quality - have also beaten PSG away from home?
Lyon, Liverpool, Napoli - any half decent team they have been up against, they just couldn't dominate .
I do think Ole got some decisions wrong yesterday. Bringing on Mata for Martial and waiting with Lukaku, as I think he could've done a better job on the right wing. He could've also done a bit more in-game decisions to try an alter our play.
That being said, it seemed more down to our own player material yesterday. Lingard was good at pressing but really sloppy in attack. Martial didn't look at sharp as he was against Fulham and was being crowded out by Alves and Kehrer, and Rashford was being pushed all over the field. We have quite a young attack and against such a big european team, and with PSG having Silva to back up Kimpembe (who arguably should've been sent off) and Kehrer, they had more experience in the back to deal with our players. Pogba might've been man-marked by Marquinhos, but god damn isn't Pogba supposedly one of the best midfielders in the world? He himself didn't really show up yersterday. Teams have been crowding him before and he has showed his brilliance, but yesterday he was weak in the duels and did not play at his best. It's also clear (and have been for a while obviously) that Young is such a weak link in our defence. They exploited that to great effect in the second half and got a goal for it. The fact that we really didn't have anyone to bring on except Diogo Dalot says a lot about our fullback situation. Someone on the forum talked about bringing on Dalot as a right wing for extra cover and that just says it all about doesn't it.
Yes, Ole got the tactics wrong yesterday, but I don't really think the team showed up either. It's down to both the players and the managerial team to show that they can bounce back from this against Chelsea, and maybe at least give PSG a run for their (oil)money in Paris.
That being said, it seemed more down to our own player material yesterday. Lingard was good at pressing but really sloppy in attack. Martial didn't look at sharp as he was against Fulham and was being crowded out by Alves and Kehrer, and Rashford was being pushed all over the field. We have quite a young attack and against such a big european team, and with PSG having Silva to back up Kimpembe (who arguably should've been sent off) and Kehrer, they had more experience in the back to deal with our players. Pogba might've been man-marked by Marquinhos, but god damn isn't Pogba supposedly one of the best midfielders in the world? He himself didn't really show up yersterday. Teams have been crowding him before and he has showed his brilliance, but yesterday he was weak in the duels and did not play at his best. It's also clear (and have been for a while obviously) that Young is such a weak link in our defence. They exploited that to great effect in the second half and got a goal for it. The fact that we really didn't have anyone to bring on except Diogo Dalot says a lot about our fullback situation. Someone on the forum talked about bringing on Dalot as a right wing for extra cover and that just says it all about doesn't it.
Yes, Ole got the tactics wrong yesterday, but I don't really think the team showed up either. It's down to both the players and the managerial team to show that they can bounce back from this against Chelsea, and maybe at least give PSG a run for their (oil)money in Paris.
Liverpool and Napoli are demonstrably better than we are. You can’t possibly have watched either team for the last 12-18 months and not realised that.
Lyon was a one off result, against a team that is coasting in the league and was utterly focussed on last night’s game. You shouldn’t read much into that result.
If we bounce back at the Bridge next Sunday, doubts will evaporate once more. Rightly so. Not expecting it necessarily, but if we do then we’ve shown yet another trait that United had under Fergie.
Chelsea have their own problems, we should certainly take some encouragement from that.
I've got very low expectations for at least the Chelsea game. Awful record there, Chelsea desperate to prove a point, and if we're without Martial and Lingard, yeah it's not going to be an easy game. Massive test, bigger one than last night in many ways.
We both have points to prove. we dont have a great record there, that's true. But Im still reasonably optimistic.
Was it Rants that said Ole's United are Imodium FC? We stop runs.
Was it Rants that said Ole's United are Imodium FC? We stop runs.
I would love to see Ole's suggestions for players he would want in the club during summer. Perhaps then he could be judged in full spectrum.
Now he needs to manage what was given to him by managers in not the best years of their careers.
Now he needs to manage what was given to him by managers in not the best years of their careers.
Last night was poor. It's easy to pretend all is well and PSG are "just better", but I don't think they are..
Watching the first half I was thinking "this is a bit drab, but they're nothing special". They weren't really doing much. Fine, you can say the ref wasn't great...but both teams had him. And sure, Jesse and Martial going off was hardly ideal, and you could say it was the big turning point... I dunno, it all seemed a little slow and listless throughout. Did they make us seem like that? I honestly didn't see it that way.
I worry that Ole is a great person but not a great coach. Being positive and enthusiastic when things are going well is easy - the players like it, the fans like it, the media like it. I worry how he'll do when things aren't looking so good.. Is he the kind of guy to drag a team back up when the levels drop and the wins dry up? Is he a leader?
Don't get me wrong, he's doing a fine job and I'm every bit behind him, but last night felt like an opportunity to stamp all over Europe....and by full time I was wondering how last seasons Jose would've done in this game. I know, I'm a twat.
Watching the first half I was thinking "this is a bit drab, but they're nothing special". They weren't really doing much. Fine, you can say the ref wasn't great...but both teams had him. And sure, Jesse and Martial going off was hardly ideal, and you could say it was the big turning point... I dunno, it all seemed a little slow and listless throughout. Did they make us seem like that? I honestly didn't see it that way.
I worry that Ole is a great person but not a great coach. Being positive and enthusiastic when things are going well is easy - the players like it, the fans like it, the media like it. I worry how he'll do when things aren't looking so good.. Is he the kind of guy to drag a team back up when the levels drop and the wins dry up? Is he a leader?
Don't get me wrong, he's doing a fine job and I'm every bit behind him, but last night felt like an opportunity to stamp all over Europe....and by full time I was wondering how last seasons Jose would've done in this game. I know, I'm a twat.
Its clear as day the the backup players aren't good enough and that is why we lost. Nothing to do with coaching. No amount of coaching is going to allow Mata and Sanchez to rediscover any pace they once had and Mata was already slow to begin with. Besides, we have already seen improvement under Rashford and Matic is also playing better, with more forward passes.Last night was poor. It's easy to pretend all is well and PSG are "just better", but I don't think they are..
Watching the first half I was thinking "this is a bit drab, but they're nothing special". They weren't really doing much. Fine, you can say the ref wasn't great...but both teams had him. And sure, Jesse and Martial going off was hardly ideal, and you could say it was the big turning point... I dunno, it all seemed a little slow and listless throughout. Did they make us seem like that? I honestly didn't see it that way.
I worry that Ole is a great person but not a great coach. Being positive and enthusiastic when things are going well is easy - the players like it, the fans like it, the media like it. I worry how he'll do when things aren't looking so good.. Is he the kind of guy to drag a team back up when the levels drop and the wins dry up? Is he a leader?
Don't get me wrong, he's doing a fine job and I'm every bit behind him, but last night felt like an opportunity to stamp all over Europe....and by full time I was wondering how last seasons Jose would've done in this game. I know, I'm a twat.
If you want to be critical of Ole, his substitutions were poor. He should have brought on Lukaku and Dalot instead of Mata and Sanchez.
I think it’ll be interesting in the return what he does tactically and who he has at his disposal. Be nice to give a good show of ourselves.
Suppose were about to find out, as you say easy to be a nice guy manager when it is all going well, but the next week or two, will really show whether he is just a feel good coach until the summer or the real deal, if he can pull off a result on Monday (even a replay would be a good result especially with no Lingard/Martial), then the Liverpool game at home which is mega, followed by the return leg (no one is expecting us to go through but a decent performance and us having a go, creating a few chances maybe scoring).Last night was poor. It's easy to pretend all is well and PSG are "just better", but I don't think they are..
Watching the first half I was thinking "this is a bit drab, but they're nothing special". They weren't really doing much. Fine, you can say the ref wasn't great...but both teams had him. And sure, Jesse and Martial going off was hardly ideal, and you could say it was the big turning point... I dunno, it all seemed a little slow and listless throughout. Did they make us seem like that? I honestly didn't see it that way.
I worry that Ole is a great person but not a great coach. Being positive and enthusiastic when things are going well is easy - the players like it, the fans like it, the media like it. I worry how he'll do when things aren't looking so good.. Is he the kind of guy to drag a team back up when the levels drop and the wins dry up? Is he a leader?
Don't get me wrong, he's doing a fine job and I'm every bit behind him, but last night felt like an opportunity to stamp all over Europe....and by full time I was wondering how last seasons Jose would've done in this game. I know, I'm a twat.
I agree with Neville that we should not give him the job now based on a knee-jerk reaction and likewise we should not rule him out of it due to one bad performance where, a bit of luck (injuries, their man being sent off) the tie might be looking a lot different.
It is what it is, lets see where we are come the 25 Feb.
And Lyon are a good team, an inconsistent team but still good. They beat PSG regularly enough, 3 times in the last 10 games.
100% this. Napoli have had a cohesive team that has played together for a while. Liverpool are miles better than us.
Imagine blaming the loss on the manager last night.
We went at PSG head to head, pressed the hell out of them, and caused problems for 40 min. Problem was our attack, specifically a few wayward passes, screwed up some golden opportunities, and then 2 of our 3 attackers got injured and the gameplan was fecked. You can't counter anything with Sanchez and Mata, not to mention the just come to the middle of the field and provide 0 width or running. 2nd half our lack of depth was exposed, and we didn't have anyone else capable of producing something since PSG set out to nullify Pogba. People really aren't pointing out that Herrera was absolute crap going forward when he had so much space to operate and time on the ball in the final 3rd.
Also: I don't know what subs Ole could have made instead. Lukaku maybe, but I simply don't think he has the quality for a game like this. Fred? Give me a break the guy hasn't played in a month he's not all of the sudden going to be used as a game changer, and its quite clear that he hasn't shown enough in training to warrant a shot.
There are always going to be people wanting to jump on Ole for this loss as they were waiting for any cracks to show, since they most likely simply want another manager. But the vast majority of the fanbase needs to look at this game from an analytical perspective and understand what went wrong, as it was quite clear if you didn't let your emotions/ annoyance at us losing a match all of us were dying to win get in the way.
We went at PSG head to head, pressed the hell out of them, and caused problems for 40 min. Problem was our attack, specifically a few wayward passes, screwed up some golden opportunities, and then 2 of our 3 attackers got injured and the gameplan was fecked. You can't counter anything with Sanchez and Mata, not to mention the just come to the middle of the field and provide 0 width or running. 2nd half our lack of depth was exposed, and we didn't have anyone else capable of producing something since PSG set out to nullify Pogba. People really aren't pointing out that Herrera was absolute crap going forward when he had so much space to operate and time on the ball in the final 3rd.
Also: I don't know what subs Ole could have made instead. Lukaku maybe, but I simply don't think he has the quality for a game like this. Fred? Give me a break the guy hasn't played in a month he's not all of the sudden going to be used as a game changer, and its quite clear that he hasn't shown enough in training to warrant a shot.
There are always going to be people wanting to jump on Ole for this loss as they were waiting for any cracks to show, since they most likely simply want another manager. But the vast majority of the fanbase needs to look at this game from an analytical perspective and understand what went wrong, as it was quite clear if you didn't let your emotions/ annoyance at us losing a match all of us were dying to win get in the way.
The problem yesterday was some of our players had shockers.
Ole's only wrong move was putting in Mata but the replacement was Lukaku who has god awful record in big games anyway so not that it was going to change anything imo, and even Martial who was subbed due to injury was one of those players who were having shockers in first half.
Simply several players could have done far more than what they did.
Ole's only wrong move was putting in Mata but the replacement was Lukaku who has god awful record in big games anyway so not that it was going to change anything imo, and even Martial who was subbed due to injury was one of those players who were having shockers in first half.
Simply several players could have done far more than what they did.
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Its eye opening how many people really want Ole to fail. Some of you lot have clearly been waiting since before Xmas to take a swipe at him.
Imagine wanting to see your own team lose, just so you can campaign for someone else to be manager.
Imagine wanting to see your own team lose, just so you can campaign for someone else to be manager.
I know. Dickheads, the lot.Its eye opening how many people really want Ole to fail. Some of you lot have clearly been waiting since before Xmas to take a swipe at him.
Imagine wanting to see your own team lose, just so you can campaign for someone else to be manager.
They come and go, story of the last 6 years. Ole was hell of a striker, deadliest type in Europe but as for manager the fans must prepare to face the day that he may be sacked by the cluelles men in charge.Its eye opening how many people really want Ole to fail. Some of you lot have clearly been waiting since before Xmas to take a swipe at him.
Imagine wanting to see your own team lose, just so you can campaign for someone else to be manager.
Pochettino will also be sacked, don't you worry.
Jesus this place is such a knee jerk its almost painful. One loss against PsG where we lost two of our forwards in the first half, and now Ole's getting tactically outclassed and out of his depth. Was Fergie out of his depth when we lost 3-0 to Milan?
To everyone saying "we can't afford Ole to have growing and learning experiences" thats the biggest load of shite I have heard on here. I thought Manchester United actually was a football club not just a mercenary franchise where the biggest professionals come to earn their big payday. Hence giving youth a chance, and hence developing our own talent and hence, yes letting our managers learn on the job. I'd rather have that than say a Sarri or a Mourinho (and maybe even a Poch) who are all "I don't change I'm perfect, the players just aren't doing my tactics right"
I'll come back the after our next winning run when everyone's licking Ole's backside again.
To everyone saying "we can't afford Ole to have growing and learning experiences" thats the biggest load of shite I have heard on here. I thought Manchester United actually was a football club not just a mercenary franchise where the biggest professionals come to earn their big payday. Hence giving youth a chance, and hence developing our own talent and hence, yes letting our managers learn on the job. I'd rather have that than say a Sarri or a Mourinho (and maybe even a Poch) who are all "I don't change I'm perfect, the players just aren't doing my tactics right"
I'll come back the after our next winning run when everyone's licking Ole's backside again.
Yeah that's quite annoying. The double standards.
Couldnt agree more. A bit pathetic the lack of support after losing 1 game in 13
We are not shedding any deadwood. The only player likely to leave is Darmian and maybe Valencia (I doubt though). Everyone else is staying/getting extensions.
Young isn't deadwood if he is a back-up as opposed to first choice in any position. He can play in the FA and league cups and help out in the odd game against the likes of Burnley, Brighton etc when we have fixture congestion. So keeping Young till 2020 isn't too bad in my opinion, that will be about the time he goes the Valencia way and becomes absolutely useless.
The real deadwood are Darmian, Valencia, Mata and Jones who are of absoutely no use. Out of these, only Jones has been given a contract. The other 3 are likely to leave.