Why did we buy Fred?

[Jonno]

McTominay will never be good enough.

That's a big statement to make at such a young age. My experience of being a lifelong United fan for 30 years has taught me not to make premature statements like that when a player is so young.

I'm not saying McTominay might turn into a Pogba, but why can't he sit and do Matic's job when he enters his mid-late 20s? Matic was flogged by Chelsea when he was 22 years old and bought back at 25.

Patience.

I used to have the same argument with Caf posters about 3-4 years ago about Lingard and he's now one of the first names on our teamsheet but it took him until the age of 25/26 to do so. Dismissing our academy players as not good enough at the age od 22 is not something I thought United fans did. I thought that was a Chelsea thing to do.

 

[Untd55]

At the moment, we would only be able to sell Fred for a pittance. The guy has hardly played and does not look like he is going to play for the rest of the season. I just get this feeling we are going to end up selling him cheap and another team is going to end up with a bargain. It just seems strange that we are not even putting him on for five minutes.

People are saying it might be to do with training, but if that was the case surely he would not even be on the bench. I would be surprised if it was lack of effort because he looked like an energetic player in the few games I saw him.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He must be absolutely terrible in training to not even get substitute appearances. If it carries on this way until the end of the season we should replace him. The whole season is plenty of time to show some genuine quality even if not the consistency of it.

Yeah, if i was to hazard a guess, it would be that he's not putting it in in training.

Ole seems like he'd give anyone and their dog a fair shot, so yeah, can't see him not playing Fred without reason.

 

[Tony247]

There are still many games to play and this top 4 going to go under wire. I really don't want him to be starting towards the end just because there is no option.

 

[Isotope]

That's a big statement to make at such a young age. My experience of being a lifelong United fan for 30 years has taught me not to make premature statements like that when a player is so young.

I'm not saying McTominay might turn into a Pogba, but why can't he sit and do Matic's job when he enters his mid-late 20s? Matic was flogged by Chelsea when he was 22 years old and bought back at 25.

Patience.

I used to have the same argument with Caf posters about 3-4 years ago about Lingard and he's now one of the first names on our teamsheet but it took him until the age of 25/26 to do so. Dismissing our academy players as not good enough at the age od 22 is not something I thought United fans did. I thought that was a Chelsea thing to do.

Are you saying that we should keep all young academy players until they are 25 y.o.? You know, because of tradition and such.

 

[Shark]

Christ, looking at his stats before he came here makes the fee look even worse. What the hell did we think we were paying for? he could honestly go down as our worst ever signing.

 

[sideshow_bob]

How much is Fred on per week?

 

[Sandikan]

That's a big statement to make at such a young age. My experience of being a lifelong United fan for 30 years has taught me not to make premature statements like that when a player is so young.

I'm not saying McTominay might turn into a Pogba, but why can't he sit and do Matic's job when he enters his mid-late 20s? Matic was flogged by Chelsea when he was 22 years old and bought back at 25.

Patience.

I used to have the same argument with Caf posters about 3-4 years ago about Lingard and he's now one of the first names on our teamsheet but it took him until the age of 25/26 to do so. Dismissing our academy players as not good enough at the age od 22 is not something I thought United fans did. I thought that was a Chelsea thing to do.

Lingard is an outlier as most players don't come through so late.
There's a tonne more examples of players we've shipped at 21-22 who drifted downwards, then came back to haunt us.

 

[el3mel]

How much is Fred on per week?

Apparently 120k.

https://www.totalsportek.com/money/manchester-united-player-salaries/

 

[reddevil80]

Other than the da silva's, how many brazilians have been any good at O/T?, Fred is yet another brazilian who can not cut it in the premier league.

 

[Suedesi]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/brazilian-signings-who-have-played-for-manchester-united

We have had no luck with Brazilians.

 

[simplyared]

It's obvious why he's not getting game time. Too much of a risk. Loses the ball too often in dangerous positions and exposes our defence to unecessary threats. He could do with watching a load of footage on Modric so he can use that small frame of his in the best possible way without getting bulldozered by the opposition.

 

[Denis79]

The question is though, how bad is he doing in training when he's not even on the bench in some games?

 

[Gehrman]

Even in todays standards with market inflation. 50 million pounds is a lot money for a player. He's quite easily turning to greatest transfer flop all time. Our recruitment is terrible.

 

[sglowrider]

The Caf....

It's not like there aren't any lessons to be learnt from all this prognostication, judgements based on other players who have taken a while to bed in.

A couple of months ago, many said that Rashford ought to be loaned out to a Championship club and he really wasn't good enough for United. Until a few days ago, he is being compared to Mbappe (ie. prior to the PSG match.)

Lindelof is another prime contemporary example. Going back in history, many here said that Ronaldo was nothing than a show pony, all step-overs and no end product.

Let's just wait till the end of next season if history is anything to go by before making Nostrodamus-lite predictions and judgements.

 

[sideshow_bob]

Apparently 120k.

https://www.totalsportek.com/money/manchester-united-player-salaries/

Thanks. Wow 120k! Certainly hasn't proven he's worth that much. Probably last chance saloon for him next season (if he's still here).

Surely he's got to play in the return leg against PSG with Pogba out...

 

[Flytan]

Other than the da silva's, how many brazilians have been any good at O/T?, Fred is yet another brazilian who can not cut it in the premier league.

I mean in reality they didn't last all that long after all the promise.

Probably helped they were here from such a young age.

 

[Needham]

Don't know whether Ole will restore the glory years but one think I'm quite confident about is that he will never piss away fortunes on sub standard misfits.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Don't know whether Ole will restore the glory years but one think I'm quite confident about is that he will never piss away fortunes on sub standard misfits.

He's untested at this level so we will see. Big assumption. But I hope you're right.

 

[Class of 63]

We bought the Brazilian International Fred because he was the only player on the market at the time whose name rhymed with bred.

I mean you don't honestly believe "Ole's at the Wheel" was written, and put to music in 5 minutes while somebody was having a dump do you, these things take time, weeks, months, even years some times.....

But will Ed get credit, will he hell as like. Forward planning that is.

 

[Jonno]

Are you saying that we should keep all young academy players until they are 25 y.o.? You know, because of tradition and such.

Not just because of tradition, but tradition does play a part, yes - we're Manchester United and we promote youth. But more importantly because Mourinho has seen something in him and Solskjaer has seen something in him. Solskjaer has effectively been picking him as a sub ahead of £50m Fred, what does that tell you? He's worthy of being in our squad and is very young, why ship him out just because he's not set the world alight yet?

 

[Jonno]

Lingard is an outlier as most players don't come through so late.
There's a tonne more examples of players we've shipped at 21-22 who drifted downwards, then came back to haunt us.

Fletcher didn't really blossom until his mid/late 20s, O'Shea didn't get taken seriously until he was about 25-26, Lingard was a late bloomer, Matic at Chelsea was flogged out at 22, there's tonnes of players in world football who bloom late, it's perfectly normal.

Why flog him for almost nothing when he can work with OGS for the next few months/years (if he gets the job) and potentially turn into another Matic or Hererra-type midfielder? We lose nothing by keeping him, he's keeping Fred out of the squad and Fred offers almost nothing.

 

[Tony247]

Apparently 120k.

https://www.totalsportek.com/money/manchester-united-player-salaries/

wow that's the money average joe hopes to save for retirement and he is getting that per week for nothing.

 

[Mainoldo]

The Caf....

It's not like there aren't any lessons to be learnt from all this prognostication, judgements based on other players who have taken a while to bed in.

A couple of months ago, many said that Rashford ought to be loaned out to a Championship club and he really wasn't good enough for United. Until a few days ago, he is being compared to Mbappe (ie. prior to the PSG match.)

Lindelof is another prime contemporary example. Going back in history, many here said that Ronaldo was nothing than a show pony, all step-overs and no end product.

Let's just wait till the end of next season if history is anything to go by before making Nostrodamus-lite predictions and judgements.

There’s even more lessons to learn when people like you ‘make stuff up’

It also doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see this ‘25-26’ year old isn’t going to cut it here.

 

[Red_Beans]

Fletcher didn't really blossom until his mid/late 20s, O'Shea didn't get taken seriously until he was about 25-26, Lingard was a late bloomer, Matic at Chelsea was flogged out at 22, there's tonnes of players in world football who bloom late, it's perfectly normal.

Why flog him for almost nothing when he can work with OGS for the next few months/years (if he gets the job) and potentially turn into another Matic or Hererra-type midfielder? We lose nothing by keeping him, he's keeping Fred out of the squad and Fred offers almost nothing.

Agree with you Jonno. If the coaches see something in Scott I am happy to keep him around.

 

[Litch]

Ole......."We know there’s a very, very good player there with Fred so hopefully he’ll adjust to the English game because there’s no doubt there's talent, absolutely no doubt.

"It’s always difficult to come here. One: It’s Man United, you’re expected to perform straight away. Two: It’s an English league that he’s not used to. But he’s a Brazilian international, Andreas is a Brazilian international, the talent is there and when they get the chance the next time... it’s easier to come into a team that’s doing well.

"I didn’t do Andreas or Scott or Fred any favours when I put them in against Reading when we've had nine changes. Next time they come in there might be one or two changes, and it’s easier, and then we’ll see what they’re capable of.

"There’s loads of players that have come in and found the first few months difficult. One of the best players I’ve played with that struggled the most was Diego Forlan. Veron [is another] you know, those two fantastic players and it took a bit of time. But when they settled they performed....."

Enough said and I'm not sure after 18 games with most coming off the bench during the Jose era we can make any assessment of him. He'll get his chance but currently it's hard because everyone inc those that arrived before him deserves it too. Most on here been wanting Andreas to get a chance and others Scott too. I actually rate Fred highly but I think at times he's trying to hard to impress.

 

[StrettyEnder07]

People saying we should bin off Fred this summer are pretty clueless, probably the same people who threw Lindelof under the bus at the end of last season. It takes time to adjust, Lindelof looks a completely different player now because he has adjusted and got used to the game, can't be sacking off 50+ million quid signings because they have not shone in the few games he has played, especially under Jose.

At the moment with Pogba, Matic, Herrera, you can't drop any of them and with the magnitude of games at the moment we need that midfield. He may well get a chance against PSG.

 

[Melville Red]

Christ, looking at his stats before he came here makes the fee look even worse. What the hell did we think we were paying for? he could honestly go down as our worst ever signing.

Where are these stats you mention?
I said much much earlier even before we signed him, “who is this Fred?” “And why is he playing n The Ukraine?”
Got shot down everyone saying what a marvellous player he is etc, well I think I got it right but I am curious now you have gone and mentioned these stats. Cheers.

 

[Litch]

People saying we should bin off Fred this summer are pretty clueless, probably the same people who threw Lindelof under the bus at the end of last season. It takes time to adjust, Lindelof looks a completely different player now because he has adjusted and got used to the game, can't be sacking off 50+ million quid signings because they have not shone in the few games he has played, especially under Jose.

At the moment with Pogba, Matic, Herrera, you can't drop any of them and with the magnitude of games at the moment we need that midfield. He may well get a chance against PSG.

Agree. 18 games most from the bench in a team playing the most tumescent football for years that no one played well under Jose and yet there's some that want to binned him off without seeing him play under Ole? This forum sometimes.....

 

[Melville Red]

People saying we should bin off Fred this summer are pretty clueless, probably the same people who threw Lindelof under the bus at the end of last season. It takes time to adjust, Lindelof looks a completely different player now because he has adjusted and got used to the game, can't be sacking off 50+ million quid signings because they have not shone in the few games he has played, especially under Jose.

At the moment with Pogba, Matic, Herrera, you can't drop any of them and with the magnitude of games at the moment we need that midfield. He may well get a chance against PSG.

But is it too much to ask for if you buy something at £50 million + that it is fit for purpose and works?

We shouldn’t have to be messing around getting someone fit for purpose and putting him right if he cost us that much, he should be bloody good enough to go straight in and perform. Alas he isn’t, a total waste of money and a bloody disgrace that a club of our stature does business like this. If he was a car he’d be rejected under the consumer protection act or whatever it’s called! He’s a bloody second hand Ssang Yong for brand new Mercedes money!

 

[Litch]

Love how people are assessing him under Jose's reign. Wind back the clock a few weeks and see how people were assessing Pogs, Rashford, Lingard, Matic too.....the difference is those players have had the chance to play regularly under Ole in a completely different style of football. Not saying whether Fred is good enough simply cause I've not had the chance to see whether he is in this team....

 

[Litch]

But is it too much to ask for if you buy something at £50 million + that it is fit for purpose and works?

We shouldn’t have to be messing around getting someone fit for purpose and putting him right if he cost us that much, he should be bloody good enough to go straight in and perform. Alas he isn’t, a total waste of money and a bloody disgrace that a club of our stature does business like this. If he was a car he’d be rejected under the consumer protection act or whatever it’s called! He’s a bloody second hand Ssang Yong for brand new Mercedes money!

Pre or Post Jose.....

 

[Zlatan 7]

Agree. 18 games most from the bench in a team playing the most tumescent football for years that no one played well under Jose and yet there's some that want to binned him off without seeing him play under Ole? This forum sometimes.....

Do you think there’s a reason Ole has not used him yet and choosing to bring mctominay on instead?
I’d say he’s either not impressing much in training or he is being massively protected and intergrated again.

We could have done with him at least getting a few minutes lately as I should imagine we’d need him against PSG

 

[Litch]

Do you think there’s a reason Ole has not used him yet and choosing to bring mctominay on instead?
I’d say he’s either not impressing much in training or he is being massively protected and intergrated again.

We could have done with him at least getting a few minutes lately as I should imagine we’d need him against PSG

I'll post it again....

Ole......."We know there’s a very, very good player there with Fred so hopefully he’ll adjust to the English game because there’s no doubt there's talent, absolutely no doubt.

"It’s always difficult to come here. One: It’s Man United, you’re expected to perform straight away. Two: It’s an English league that he’s not used to. But he’s a Brazilian international, Andreas is a Brazilian international, the talent is there and when they get the chance the next time... it’s easier to come into a team that’s doing well.

"I didn’t do Andreas or Scott or Fred any favours when I put them in against Reading when we've had nine changes. Next time they come in there might be one or two changes, and it’s easier, and then we’ll see what they’re capable of.

"There’s loads of players that have come in and found the first few months difficult. One of the best players I’ve played with that struggled the most was Diego Forlan. Veron [is another] you know, those two fantastic players and it took a bit of time. But when they settled they performed....."

Enough said and I'm not sure after 18 games with most coming off the bench during the Jose era we can make any assessment of him. He'll get his chance but currently it's hard because everyone inc those that arrived before him deserves it too. Most on here been wanting Andreas to get a chance and others Scott too. I actually rate Fred highly but I think at times he's trying to hard to impress.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

You don't loan a 25 year old that cost you 50 million.

The 50 million is a sunk cost. If a loan would help his development, he'll be loaned. That said, given our history of loaning out players I'm very skeptical.

 

[Needham]

But is it too much to ask for if you buy something at £50 million + that it is fit for purpose and works?

We shouldn’t have to be messing around getting someone fit for purpose and putting him right if he cost us that much, he should be bloody good enough to go straight in and perform. Alas he isn’t, a total waste of money and a bloody disgrace that a club of our stature does business like this. If he was a car he’d be rejected under the consumer protection act or whatever it’s called! He’s a bloody second hand Ssang Yong for brand new Mercedes money!

Right, 50 million pound for a development player is the going price if you're dumb amd Manchester United.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I'll post it again....

Ole......."We know there’s a very, very good player there with Fred so hopefully he’ll adjust to the English game because there’s no doubt there's talent, absolutely no doubt.

"It’s always difficult to come here. One: It’s Man United, you’re expected to perform straight away. Two: It’s an English league that he’s not used to. But he’s a Brazilian international, Andreas is a Brazilian international, the talent is there and when they get the chance the next time... it’s easier to come into a team that’s doing well.

"I didn’t do Andreas or Scott or Fred any favours when I put them in against Reading when we've had nine changes. Next time they come in there might be one or two changes, and it’s easier, and then we’ll see what they’re capable of.

"There’s loads of players that have come in and found the first few months difficult. One of the best players I’ve played with that struggled the most was Diego Forlan. Veron [is another] you know, those two fantastic players and it took a bit of time. But when they settled they performed....."

Enough said and I'm not sure after 18 games with most coming off the bench during the Jose era we can make any assessment of him. He'll get his chance but currently it's hard because everyone inc those that arrived before him deserves it too. Most on here been wanting Andreas to get a chance and others Scott too. I actually rate Fred highly but I think at times he's trying to hard to impress.

Fair enough but I asked what you thought about it. not for a post about what Ole has said.
From those quotes it looks as though Ole is being very protective of him, he could still think privately that Fred is not all that but obviously he’s not going to say that.

For what it’s worth I agree with you and it’s too soon to tell whether he’ll be good enough here.
It’s certainly strange that Ole is giving youth a few minutes before a £50milkion signing, I think that’s a little strange, don’t you? Unless it is based on their quality and future.

Going by those Ole quotes, it was an ideal time to bring Fred on instead of mctominay the other day.

 

[Litch]

Fair enough but I asked what you thought about it. not for a post about what Ole has said.
From those quotes it looks as though Ole is being very protective of him, he could still think privately that Fred is not all that but obviously he’s not going to say that.

For what it’s worth I agree with you and it’s too soon to tell whether he’ll be good enough here.
It’s certainly strange that Ole is giving youth a few minutes before a £50milkion signing, I think that’s a little strange, don’t you? Unless it is based on their quality and future.

Going by those Ole quotes, it was an ideal time to bring Fred on instead of mctominay the other day.

I think I wrote at the bottom what I thought.....I think if I arrived at the club, I would give those who already are here for sometime the chance to prove their worth as Fred in essence doesn't in the same way given he's just arrived. I think Ole wants to give Scott and Andreas a chance because they deserve it and I think Ole needs to know (and maybe Fred inc at some point) if they can come in and offer cover for the 3 that are already there. Ole will only find out if he plays them but like he said, can't do that all at once. I think Fred will get another season but Andreas has already been out on loan and I suspect if Scott isn't good enough at the mo, he'll go out on loan too.
After seeing how tall Scott is becoming, I suspect they might see him playing CB in the future.

Oh....Ole doesn't have to say that about him at all. I actually think one of Ole's strengths is his honesty and would lose a lot of credibility amongst the players if he's says that publicly and something else privately......

 

[Smores]

Good quotes from Ole and I'm glad he recognises his mistakes in the Reading game.
Writing off Fred now is far too premature, he needs to be given a run of games. Hopefully Ole does that as he's not really handed out games to those on the sidelines yet

 

[simplyared]

Fred was bought for 50 mill which is a lot of money even in todays market. He was given games under Mourinho and didn't impress in any of them. So he was binned and quite rightly so imo. What I believe surprises the fans more than anything, considering the price tag, is how far he appears to be from the finished product. Jose left and Ole came in and we've hardly seen him since. So we can draw the conclusion Ole isn't seeing what he wants to see on the training ground and therefore he's not good enough for the shirt. So in that respect both managers are on the same page.
Now all this talk about it's too early to judge the player and those who do are clueless bla bla bla is bollox. Justifying it by comparing the player to the situation with Rashford reaches the heights of naitivety. People who were proposing a loan deal for Rashford then as a sollution must now realize how idiotic it was to even suggest it. Fact is we've coughed up 50 mill for a player who isn't considered good enough as a useable squad player.