Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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Ishdalar

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The problem with players like Modric is that people start seeing him as underrated (which he was for a while) and then start talking about body feints in midfield and small dribbles to overcome pressure as if they’re anywhere near as important as goals ffs.

It’s obviously a lot easier to have a consistently good impact on midfield than it is to consistently dismantle a defense. No fecking shit, welcome to football.

God forbids these hipsters actually make sane people believe the likes of Modric, David Silva, Bernardo Silva, Thiago, Verratti, etc. are as important to their teams as the best forwards on the planet
That's just why Maradona, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Zidane or Di Stefano were the stars back in the day, not Batistuta, Müller, Van Basten, Trezeguet or Puskas.

The last ones should've dyed their hair and make weird posses to be better than the first ones.
 

Charles Miller

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He does have some good games over the years, but in many games I've watched, there are other players outshined him in the matches too. I know its all matter of opinions, but if we take reference from other neutral source like "whoscored", their average rating in La Liga in past 3 years is like:

Modric
15-16:7.37 (32 games)
16-17: 7.23 (25 games)
17-18: 7.29 (26 games)

Kroos
15-16: 7.33 (32 games)
16-17: 7.67 (29 games)
17-18: 7.47 (27 games)

Bale
15-16: 8.12 (23 games)
16-17: 7.49 (19 games)
17-18: 7.49 (26 games)

Ronaldo
15-16: 7.99 (36 games)
16-17: 7.61 (29 games)
17-18: 7.94 (27 games)

*note I didn't even count 18-19 when Modric level drop alot.

So he wasn't top 3 performers in Real Madrid in past 3 years according to "whoscored" either. (I know we can't take whoscored seriously, but that's just another reference)
You should not take those ratings so seriously as we can do in other sports. Also you should not compare the stats/ratings of players with different roles. If you actually watched them on a regular basis you know Modric was their more important player after Ronaldo.
 

Peyroteo

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That's just why Maradona, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Zidane or Di Stefano were the stars back in the day, not Batistuta, Müller, Van Basten, Trezeguet or Puskas.

The last ones should've dyed their hair and make weird posses to be better than the first ones.
Yeah like Coluna did to be better than Eusebio... if they want to be better, they actually need to play better. And the only one whose hair has done something to increase is reputation is Luka Modric :lol:

Batistusta, Van Basten and Puskas were very much superstars...

Ronaldo is closer to the first names on that list as a player than Modric is... Modric doesn’t even come even come close having half the offensive impact they had.

He’s obviously not been as good as the best forwards in the world in the past few years. There should be no doubt about that.

He’s barely been better than fecking Benzema or Vinicius this season for fecks sake.

Zidane > Batistuta, but Van Basten > Gullit... every case is different. You can’t just rate a player over the other because of his profile...
 

Peyroteo

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Yeah, they were super obsessed with marking him


Magisterial! Now compare it to this.


Barzagli and De Sciglio are so scared of Ronaldo's off the ball movement, that he baits and takes them for a dance to create that goal, he never should've reached that ball with ease, it's ABC of football, if the other team has a player that excels at losing his mark, just don't mark him, zonal marking and deal with him when he has the ball, minimize risks.
Juve didn’t man mark him ffs. It was exactly the same, Bayern just did a much better job on dealing with crosses.

I love this concept though.

Ronaldo is great at losing his marker, therefore we should just ignore him and leave him alone... flawless plan.
 

Zehner

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Completely disagree. Pogba would fit into Pep's team. What do you mean too direct? His passing, his dribbbling? KdB did all that and was a ball loss merchant. Pogba would adapt. Pogba's passing is arguably better than KdB's, he is faster, better dribbler, better press resistance. The only issue I could see him having is his work rate but even Robbery worked hard under Pep.

If Gundogan can play for City Pogba would walk into that team as he is a much better footballer. I can't think of one thing Gundogan is better at atm.
Decision making man. Everytime I see Pogba play he has so many unnecessary possession losses. His first instinct is to always play the ball forward and quite often this is the wrong decision. And he takes so much time on the ball that the opponents usually can get near him. Sometimes he can fend them off, sometimes he can't. Watch guys like Kroos play. They look untouchable since they are so clever at finding space for themselves. Opponent players can't get near them to entangle them in physical duels. Gündogan has degressed a fair bit due to his injury but he's still an incredibly clever player and brillant on the ball. Pogba may have some fancier moves but Gündogan rarely loses any balls since he has a very clean and efficient technique and has these quick and agile turns with the ball at his feet. Would Pogba start ahead of him? Maybe, maybe not. Guardiola also didn't rate Yaya at all and he's type of midfielder IMO.

Ah and by the way, I'm not even saying that Pogba couldn't play for Guardiola. Of course, if even Vidal can play in his team then Pogba can do for sure but IMO he is not a particularly good fit. In this system he won't be able to utilize his strengthes while some of his weaknesses will be exposed. My initial "criticism" of Pogba was in response to someone who said he was the most talented midfielder and I really can't see that since others are much better in areas which are deem more important than those he excels at.
 

Ishdalar

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Juve didn’t man mark him ffs. It was exactly the same, Bayern just did a much better job on dealing with crosses.

I love this concept though.

Ronaldo is great at losing his marker, therefore we should just ignore him and leave him alone... flawless plan.
Yeah, some dumb guy came up with it, Johan something



Totally stupid, if Ronaldo lately isn't that bright dribbling on 1vs1 and long distance shooting, maybe give him space to think and don't be afraid to take a step forward everytime the ball goes to him, suddenly he ends the game with 3 offsides and his 5 shots come from either mid range or set pieces to the area.
 

KirkDuyt

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This thread is extra silly when watching live CL matches. Does this Morata goal mean Ronaldo is somehow worse?

Edit: nvm VAR disallowed it, he's still GOAT.
 

Pocho

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Ronaldo's performance was shite today, sad he didn't have Ramos or Bale to bail him out.
 

KirkDuyt

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My dream scenario for this thread is Juve still managing to go through with a Ronaldo hattrick after he's been burned constantly in here for 2 weeks.

Not because Im his fan, I think he's a twat, but the meltdowns. Oh sweet glorious Jesus.
 

Charles Miller

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My dream scenario for this thread is Juve still managing to go through with a Ronaldo hattrick after he's been burned constantly in here for 2 weeks.

Not because Im his fan, I think he's a twat, but the meltdowns. Oh sweet glorious Jesus.
A final Juve x Barca is the ideal scenario.
 

wr8_utd

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My dream scenario for this thread is Juve still managing to go through with a Ronaldo hattrick after he's been burned constantly in here for 2 weeks.

Not because Im his fan, I think he's a twat, but the meltdowns. Oh sweet glorious Jesus.
If he's as effective as he was tonight, he's going to need 3 penalties to do that. I still won't rule Juve out though, they've shown against Madrid last year that they can come back from these positions.
 

Suedesi

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Messi played as an inverted winger since his youth also in a much easier league than the EPL especially in that time period. Think. Messi is and always has been a SYSTEM based player hence the difference in performance from Barca to Argentina. Think. Ronaldo by the time he retires will have played and dominated in THREE different leagues and won a CL in all 3. Like come on.
Have you taken for granted Juve will win a CL in the next 2-3 years? :lol:
 

SportingCP96

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Have you taken for granted Juve will win a CL in the next 2-3 years? :lol:
I still have no doubt he will win a CL with Juve. I dont know where the post is on here but I even said I never thought he would win it in his first year.
 

berbatrick

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He does have some good games over the years, but in many games I've watched, there are other players outshined him in the matches too. I know its all matter of opinions, but if we take reference from other neutral source like "whoscored", their average rating in La Liga in past 3 years is like:

Modric
15-16:7.37 (32 games)
16-17: 7.23 (25 games)
17-18: 7.29 (26 games)

Kroos
15-16: 7.33 (32 games)
16-17: 7.67 (29 games)
17-18: 7.47 (27 games)

Bale
15-16: 8.12 (23 games)
16-17: 7.49 (19 games)
17-18: 7.49 (26 games)

Ronaldo
15-16: 7.99 (36 games)
16-17: 7.61 (29 games)
17-18: 7.94 (27 games)

*note I didn't even count 18-19 when Modric level drop alot.

So he wasn't top 3 performers in Real Madrid in past 3 years according to "whoscored" either. (I know we can't take whoscored seriously, but that's just another reference)
I think there is some value, not too much, in those stats - but surely if you use them you can also directly compare Messi and Ronaldo's overall scores?

Messi/Ronaldo, seasons going back from this one to 09/10 (first one available, also Ronald's first at Real)
La Liga:
8.49/7.88
8.68/7.94
8.47/8.06
8.46/7.99
8.84/8.48
8.34/8.27
8.83/8.15
8.88/8.28
8.76/8.35
8.67/8.54
Messi better in every single season.

UCL:
8.72/7.08
8.03/7.94
8.24/8.06
8.28/8.11
8.9/7.83
8.37/8.71
7.75/7.93
8.88/8.43
8.87/7.87
8.44/8.47

Ronaldo 3 Messi 6 (plus this one)
 

Pocho

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I think there is some value, not too much, in those stats - but surely if you use them you can also directly compare Messi and Ronaldo's overall scores?

Messi/Ronaldo, seasons going back from this one to 09/10 (first one available, also Ronald's first at Real)
La Liga:
8.49/7.88
8.68/7.94
8.47/8.06
8.46/7.99
8.84/8.48
8.34/8.27
8.83/8.15
8.88/8.28
8.76/8.35
8.67/8.54
Messi better in every single season.

UCL:
8.72/7.08
8.03/7.94
8.24/8.06
8.28/8.11
8.9/7.83
8.37/8.71
7.75/7.93
8.88/8.43
8.87/7.87
8.44/8.47

Ronaldo 3 Messi 6 (plus this one)
oops :lol:
 

Canagel

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You yourself are posting in this thread so don't pretend you are better than the other posters in here.

If you don't see the difference between players like Kroos, Busquets or Schweinsteiger in comparison to Pogba I can't help you. I admitted you got a point with de Bruyne losing the ball that often but he is not exactly a Pogba clone, so calm down. Both are still very different players with Pogba still being more direct and far more physical than KdB. Besides that, take a look at the other players Pep uses as CMs, namely Bernardo and David Silva, Foden and Gündogan. Those guys are more or less the exact opposite of Pogba. If he fancied Pogba style players surely there would be more on the team?

You can say the same about his previous teams by the way. You've got Vidal whose role wasn't nearly as important as it was for Juve and Toure who he sold in favour of Busquets. Other than that, Pep always preferred certain player types like when he publicly demanded Thiago or when he signed Alonso as a Kroos replacement or when he moved Lahm to CM and so forth.
there wouldn't since there's no copy of him in world football. his arrays of skillset is unique.
 

roonster09

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You yourself are posting in this thread so don't pretend you are better than the other posters in here.

If you don't see the difference between players like Kroos, Busquets or Schweinsteiger in comparison to Pogba I can't help you. I admitted you got a point with de Bruyne losing the ball that often but he is not exactly a Pogba clone, so calm down. Both are still very different players with Pogba still being more direct and far more physical than KdB. Besides that, take a look at the other players Pep uses as CMs, namely Bernardo and David Silva, Foden and Gündogan. Those guys are more or less the exact opposite of Pogba. If he fancied Pogba style players surely there would be more on the team?
So there is no typical midfielder that you are trying to describe. Pep never had a midfielder like Schweinsteiger before he went to Bayern and Schweinsteiger is all action midfielder than players like Xavi, Kroos. If you can't see how different Schweinsteiger and Vidal are from Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Kroos then I can't help.

Obviously KdB is different from Pogba and even if wants Pep can't sign player like Pogba as there is only 1 player like Pogba and he plays for ManUtd. You said Pogba plays too many risky passes but there is no midfielder who plays more risky passes than KdB. Pogba isn't more direct than KdB.

Fernandinho was not typical Pep player either but once Pep took over he became key player for them. He was all action box to box player, now he is a holding player.

You can say the same about his previous teams by the way. You've got Vidal whose role wasn't nearly as important as it was for Juve and Toure who he sold in favour of Busquets. Other than that, Pep always preferred certain player types like when he publicly demanded Thiago or when he signed Alonso as a Kroos replacement or when he moved Lahm to CM and so forth.
Yeah Vidal wasn't so important, that's why he played 30/34 league games and played in every single CL game including Semi finals of CL, played in every German cup games including finals. He was the midfielder who played most mins for Bayern and had 3rd most appearances among outfield players.

Your point was Pogba can't play for Pep as he isn't agile, I gave you bunch of examples who played for Pep and weren't agile. You said Pogba also plays too many risky passes and I gave you Pep's important player who plays more risky passes than anyone in the league.

There is no reason why Pogba can't play for anyone or system. You just gave bunch of random names (few of them aren't even CMs) and then started moving goal posts with every post.
 

Suedesi

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Ronaldo winning 3 different leagues being a big deal is cleverly pushed by his marketing team.
Can't outperform Messi in Spain, so they are making up fake achievments nobody used to care about previously and try to sell a storyline.
This is true. Tonight highlighted the difference between La Liga and Serie A: Juve so strong domestically were made to look like puppies against Atleti.

Also, Milan were knocked out of the Europa League, Lazio was destroyed by Sevilla, Inter knocked out by PSV. Not to mention the whole Italy vs Sweden fiasco in 2017. The whole league and country is a joke rn and a shadow of what it once was... But I guess Ronaldo conquered it. :lol::lol::lol:
 

Sarni

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Ronaldo winning Premier League was a genuine achievement as he was key in guiding United to titles. Him winning Serie A by default by joining Juventus does not really come anywhere near and should not really elevate him any higher.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Ronaldo winning Premier League was a genuine achievement as he was key in guiding United to titles. Him winning Serie A by default by joining Juventus does not really come anywhere near and should not really elevate him any higher.
Apparently they wouldn't win it without him.

Despite the fact they've won 7 straight titles without him...

Him winning the UCL and performing well would certainly elevate him.

But going to a clearly inferior league and performing well shouldn't all of a sudden elevate him above Messi.
 

roonster09

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Apparently they wouldn't win it without him.

Despite the fact they've won 7 straight titles without him...

Him winning the UCL and performing well would certainly elevate him.

But going to a clearly inferior league and performing well shouldn't all of a sudden elevate him above Messi.
Yeah, Juventus would have won CL with or without Ronaldo. On the other hand, Juventus won double in last 4 years, they signed Ronaldo and lost Italian cup game for first time in 4 years :D
 

RedRonaldo

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I think there is some value, not too much, in those stats - but surely if you use them you can also directly compare Messi and Ronaldo's overall scores?

Messi/Ronaldo, seasons going back from this one to 09/10 (first one available, also Ronald's first at Real)
La Liga:
8.49/7.88
8.68/7.94
8.47/8.06
8.46/7.99
8.84/8.48
8.34/8.27
8.83/8.15
8.88/8.28
8.76/8.35
8.67/8.54
Messi better in every single season.

UCL:
8.72/7.08
8.03/7.94
8.24/8.06
8.28/8.11
8.9/7.83
8.37/8.71
7.75/7.93
8.88/8.43
8.87/7.87
8.44/8.47

Ronaldo 3 Messi 6 (plus this one)
Average rating only tell us part of story on whether the players has been performing consistently better than others over the season, but nothing else. I brought this up because there are arguments that Modric has been consistently among the best player in Real Madrid, which I disagree. And we all know Messi has been more consistent performers over the season than Ronaldo anyway, which doesn't necessarily implies who is better player though.

As I've already mentioned, average rating only serve as part for reference. Apart from average rating, there are also plenty of other criteria we can use to compare players: Stats, Ballon D'or, Trophies, Impact on the winning games/big game impact, and of course opinions.

Since Modric and the other Real Madrid players share the same no. of trophies, we can only use stats, ballon D'or, impact on winning games, big game moment to compare.

In my opinion, Modric isn't top 3 performers for Real Madrid over the past 5 years. But everyone opinions are different, some might think he is top 2 or 3, which is fine.

Average rating, we've already established Modric isn't among the top 3 in Real Madrid. At least it tells us he isn't the most consistent performers in Real over the years.

In terms of stats, surely Modric isn't anywhere near top 3 too, but understandably he is a midfielder, his role is different, so lets just compare him with other midfielders in the same team. From 2014 to 2019, he scored 9 goals and 23 assists in 165 games. Kroos, who played in same team same role same position, from 2014 to 2019, score 13 goals and 45 assists in 167 games. So Kroos is easily better than Modric here. Isco also has better stats, but you could argue he played in slightly more advanced role. But in fact, Casemiro, who players deeper in more defensive role, has better end products than Modric. But end products for midfielder isn't everything, of course. But when compare with players from similar role/position, Modric did score the least points here.

In terms of big game impact, I think we can all agree Ronaldo, Ramos and even Bale are better.

For Ballon D'or recognition, its interesting one. Past 5 years:

Modric finish 1st, 5th, 17th, unranked, unranked
Ronaldo finish 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st
Kroos finish unranked, 17th, 17th, 21st, 9th
Ramos finish 19th, 6th, 20th, unranked, 23th
Bale finish 17th, unranked, 6th, 16th, 12th

So you can say Modric has been top 2-3 in the team in past 3 years, but not even among top 5 in those years prior to it. Over the years, whether he is top 3 in the team, remained debatable.
 
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SadlerMUFC

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How the F is this thread still going? Who cares who is better? They are both the greatest players to ever play the game and we should feel privilaged to get to watch them play week in and week out. Thread...
 

cyberman

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Apparently they wouldn't win it without him.

Despite the fact they've won 7 straight titles without him...

Him winning the UCL and performing well would certainly elevate him.

But going to a clearly inferior league and performing well shouldn't all of a sudden elevate him above Messi.
But Barca are above 99 percent of other La liga sides the same way Juve are of Italian sides?
If Madrid were to suddenly become Italian, would it magically put a gloss on Juves numbers v Sampdoria etc?
 

Cal?

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Well luckily for you, he's still receiving death threats from people over those mistakes during a fecking football match a decade ago.
Well, one has to be responsible for one’s actions.

I’m not sure those were mistakes.
 

KirkDuyt

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Well, one has to be responsible for one’s actions.

I’m not sure those were mistakes.
By being told by people that they will come to his house and kill him and his family. Right.

You're a bellend.
 
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