Declan Rice | Switches international allegiance to England four years ago

Classical Mechanic said:
18 is the age in the when you are tried as an adult in a UK criminal court.
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As an adult yeah. Here in Ireland the age of 'criminal responsibility is 12 (10 & 11 year olds for some serious offences). In England, I believe the age of 'criminal responsibility' is 10.

Anyhow, it's yet more exposure for a player that had he declared for England first, there really wouldn't be many talking about him.
 
Robbie Boy said:
As an adult yeah. Here in Ireland the age of 'criminal responsibility is 12 (10 & 11 year olds for some serious offences). In England, I believe the age of 'criminal responsibility' is 10.
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Point being that the transgressions of a minor are dealt with in a different way to those of an adult - more sympathetically.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Point being that the transgressions of a minor are dealt with in a different way to those of an adult, more sympathetically.
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Juvenile justice is my field of work, actually. I wouldn't say more sympathetically, to be honest. There is more of an onus to give the individual a chance and family background etc is heavily taken into account when assessing whether a youth should be brought before the courts. Believe me, by 12 and 13, some of these kids are hardened criminals. I don't really class 15 as all that young when posting up shite about a terrorist organisation for all to see.
 
soapythecat said:
Exactly this. The amount of people on Twitter who are sticking up for him and saying he made an error at 15, at the same clowns who have a club crest as their picture and 'Trump and Brexit' somewhere in their bio. Ask them their thoughts on the ISIS bride being allowed back in the UK having made 'an error' at 15 and they will be up in arms!
Both of them can do one - if you can't be held accountable for something you did at 15, then when do we actually become accountable for our actions?
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Not really comparable though is it. Certainly not to condone their actions, but there would be no 'RA' if the English had just unoccupied Ireland - a country in which it caused immense suffering and genocide for the best part of a millenium. Anyway, sorry to go off topic. From my experience the people who say up the RA are just saying it as a metaphor for Irish nationalism. 99% wouldn't know the IRA from their elbow. (Post limit up)
 
Robbie Boy said:
Juvenile justice is my field of work, actually. I wouldn't say more sympathetically, to be honest. There is more of an onus to give the individual a chance and family background etc is heavily taken into account when assessing whether a youth should be brought before the courts. Believe me, by 12 and 13, some of these kids are hardened criminals. I don't really class 15 as all that young when posting up shite about a terrorist organisation for all to see.
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Which is more sympathetically.

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

I'd hate to have the things that I said to my mates at one time or another when I was 15 brought back and used against me as an adult and used as some sort of character barometer. I must confess that I probably said racist, homophobic and sexist things. Perhaps you were of exemplary moral character by that age, if so, then I tip my hat to you.
 
soapythecat said:
Exactly this. The amount of people on Twitter who are sticking up for him and saying he made an error at 15, at the same clowns who have a club crest as their picture and 'Trump and Brexit' somewhere in their bio. Ask them their thoughts on the ISIS bride being allowed back in the UK having made 'an error' at 15 and they will be up in arms!
Both of them can do one - if you can't be held accountable for something you did at 15, then when do we actually become accountable for our actions?
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Yes, these are two very comparable situations and not a massive leap at all.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Which is more sympathetically.

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

I'd hate to have the things that I said to my mates at one time or another when I was 15 brought back and used against me as an adult and used as some sort of character barometer. I must confess that I probably said racist, homophobic and sexist things. Perhaps you were of exemplary moral character by that age, if so, then I tip my hat to you.
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Yes, there is more sympathy, within reason. I make decisions every day on juvenile cases and some 15 year olds are well and truly hardened, so it's case by case really. We all have said stupid things no doubt, but plastering stupid things on the internet for all to see is pretty ridiculous. Having said that, I don't really care, I do agree that it was just something stupid and so be it. But it's the nature of the beast these days that your digital footprints can and will be used against you.

I will reiterate though, this guy has struck gold with the attention his international future caused. I feel he's been well and truly elevated beyond his level. This - even though it's negative in nature - has people, yet again talking about him. I see some saying he's miles better than Dier. I think they will have a rude awakening when they see he's actually exactly like Dier.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I will reiterate though, this guy has struck gold with the attention his international future caused. I feel he's been well and truly elevated beyond his level. This - even though it's negative in nature - has people, yet again talking about him. I see some saying he's miles better than Dier. I think they will have a rude awakening when they see he's actually exactly like Dier.
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I'm a Rice sceptic too. That said, this is probably the most interesting international break I can remember with Rice, Sancho and Hudson Odoi likely to play.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I'm a Rice sceptic too. That said, this is probably the most interesting international break I can remember with Rice, Sancho and Hudson Odoi likely to play.
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Should have gone all the way with AWB, Foden, Greenwood. Considering our options in midfield, right back and up front (minus Kane).
 
Really excited to see him tonight.

Whether overrated or not - he has the ability to play the defensive version of a false 9; a CDM that plays in between the lines and drops in between 2 when defending.

It's a role that is starting to grow with a lot of CDM playing as CB & I think we need someone like that even if it is not him.
 
Thought he did very well again, he moves the ball on very quickly which is a weakness of Dier and Henderson. Haven’t seen much passing range and there are bigger tests ahead but it was encouraging.
 
Wonder if he wishes he was part of the big 1-0 win against Gibraltar instead. anyone?
 
dbs235 said:
Wonder if he wishes he was part of the big 1-0 win against Gibraltar instead. anyone?
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This condescension works really well if you're not spending the next six months asking why DDG and Pogba won't come out and reject Madrid.
 
cyberman said:
This condescension works really well if you're not spending the next six months asking why DDG and Pogba won't come out and reject Madrid.
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If I was de Gea I'd 100% want to go to Madrid. Although the season they're having is no better than ours. But if he'd gone a few years ago he'd be living in his home city and won multiple CL titles. Not sure about Pogba but Madrid and Barca are definitely the pinnacle of football sadly. I'd put United third but we need to get back up there squad-wise ASAP.
 
Looks like he made the right decision based on what I saw lastnight. England's team look very exciting and not just based around a few talented players. Pace and skill throughout the forward line. The back line without stones looked solid enough. I'm still not sure about Pickford but he could prove me wrong.
 
Stick said:
Looks like he made the right decision based on what I saw lastnight. England's team look very exciting and not just based around a few talented players. Pace and skill throughout the forward line. The back line without stones looked solid enough. I'm still not sure about Pickford but he could prove me wrong.
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He looked solid and an upgrade on Dier. Shaw at lb and I think Alli and Pickford are the only weak links in the team then.
 
Stick said:
Looks like he made the right decision based on what I saw lastnight. England's team look very exciting and not just based around a few talented players. Pace and skill throughout the forward line. The back line without stones looked solid enough. I'm still not sure about Pickford but he could prove me wrong.
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Keane will get shown up against better sides and Pickford is the Phil Jones of goalkeeping, never feel solid with him.

If they can upgrade those 2 we’ve got a fantastic team.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Keane will get shown up against better sides and Pickford is the Phil Jones of goalkeeping, never feel solid with him.

If they can upgrade those 2 we’ve got a fantastic team.
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Keane is fourth choice centre back at best for England so it’s not that much of a worry.

Considering his size and the fact that he doesn’t offer much going forward, Wan Bissaka could well end up becoming a central defender. Rice could even end up playing there for England himself too.
 
Oldyella said:
He looked solid and an upgrade on Dier. Shaw at lb and I think Alli and Pickford are the only weak links in the team then.
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Think Gomez, Foden and Winks will establish themselves in the side before too long, and especially in the midfield, is just what England need I think.

I’m not a massive fan of Walker either, and think Trent and AWB will push him very hard.

The attack is interesting too. If Sancho and Hudson really push on, nobody up there is guaranteed a place. Even Kane, for me. Depending on Rashford’s progress over the next couple of years, he could really fight for the 9, and with top wingers coming through, even Kane could be threatened. Sterling, Rashford, Sancho and Hudson are all players capable of playing wide. Rashford can also play as a 9. Likely Rash will get pushed out and the media will blame it on United. All the United boys are under huge pressure though. Jesse’s time as a first teamed is already up I think, Rashford is under threat as mentioned, as is Shaw to Chilwell. I can see an England XI without a single United player going forward, although Henderson if he develops well, could push for GK. That said, he will likely have to leave for that anyway.
 
cyberman said:
This condescension works really well if you're not spending the next six months asking why DDG and Pogba won't come out and reject Madrid.
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Gap between Ireland and England is way bigger than the gap between United and Madrid.

It's like comparing crab sticks to having crab at a 5* restaurant, or a fine red wine with ribena.

England and Ireland football teams barely play the same sport.

Declan made the only sensible choice. :)
 
Adam-Utd said:
Keane will get shown up against better sides and Pickford is the Phil Jones of goalkeeping, never feel solid with him.

If they can upgrade those 2 we’ve got a fantastic team.
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Our first choice central defenders should be Gomez and Stones, when all are fit.
 
For what he did, he may attract the same sort of attention as James Mclean does for not wearing a poppy in November...

Best steering way clear on such recruitment
 
As a proud Irishman who isn't bitter at all about this :angel: I can only say I look forward to 60 years from now when post Brexit England's football team is made up of 11 lads called Smith who's parents and grandparents never even left the country and were reared on Vimto and pork pies.
To quote a young Declan "Tiocfaidh ár lá" ;)
 
Lookatu said:
As a proud Irishman who isn't bitter at all about this :angel: I can only say I look forward to 60 years from now when post Brexit England's football team is made up of 11 lads called Smith who's parents and grandparents never even left the country and were reared on Vimto and pork pies.
To quote a young Declan "Tiocfaidh ár lá" ;)
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It won't happen, we'll just have more Caribbean and African immigration and they're supplying us with most of the best players in that regard: Sancho, Sterling, Rashford, Hudson Odoi etc.
 
Very impressed with him. He’s got that calmness and quality of touch under pressure which allows him to always pick a forward pass and is pretty press resistant. Aggressive ball winner too.

Definitely an upgrade on Dier and Hendo. He won’t be at West Ham for long.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
It won't happen, we'll just have more Caribbean and African immigration and they're supplying us with most of the best players in that regard: Sancho, Sterling, Rashford, Hudson Odoi etc.
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Certainly covered yourselves in glory with the Windrush generation anyway, I see Britain becoming a far more welcoming place post brexit :lol:
Dont worry, we can lend you a few quid when it happens. The Potato and Rice scandals will naturally lead to higher interest rates but we're a forgiving bunch
 
Lookatu said:
As a proud Irishman who isn't bitter at all about this :angel: I can only say I look forward to 60 years from now when post Brexit England's football team is made up of 11 lads called Smith who's parents and grandparents never even left the country and were reared on Vimto and pork pies.
To quote a young Declan "Tiocfaidh ár lá" ;)
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something on the lines of "your day will come?":nono:
 
Lookatu said:
As a proud Irishman who isn't bitter at all about this :angel: I can only say I look forward to 60 years from now when post Brexit England's football team is made up of 11 lads called Smith who's parents and grandparents never even left the country and were reared on Vimto and pork pies.
To quote a young Declan "Tiocfaidh ár lá" ;)
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Yes, see you on the Glorious 12th pal;)
 
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