I can't see any benefit in losing him on a free. Has been really good under Ole, and if we do want to bring someone in, it would be one step forward two steps back if we lose him. Point is to strengthen, not keep a limited squad.
Ander Herrera to PSG? | Gone.
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I really like Herrera, but he is upgradable.
Having said that I’d rather keep him and has that £££ elsewhere.
Having said that I’d rather keep him and has that £££ elsewhere.
Think this is going to be something that happens more frequently. Players realize they can get a massive payday if they don't sign the new contract and leave on a free. Especially for players who are probably going to be on their last big contract. They see the end of their career and want to try to make as much money as they can send I can't blame them. Teams can no longer allowed players to enter the last year of their contracts if they don't want this to happen or the player holds all the cards.
It’s pretty straight forward.
Is he one of our poorer players, whom upgrading would lead to a significant benefit? No. He’s a very good player. If we let him go we have to be prepared to pay to replace what he brings.
On the flip side is he so pivotal that we need to bend to keep him? Again no. We should be prepared to pay him what he’s worth, but if he wants a ridiculous salary we should be prepared to walk.
I personally don’t like this one. One of the few players who has always shown passion and desire, and frankly contributes. We have other, weaker players whom should be replaced. In midfield alone, we should be prioritising finding a long term replacement for Matic. Add to that that he seems to have a good understanding with Pogba and their styles compliment each othe.
Is he one of our poorer players, whom upgrading would lead to a significant benefit? No. He’s a very good player. If we let him go we have to be prepared to pay to replace what he brings.
On the flip side is he so pivotal that we need to bend to keep him? Again no. We should be prepared to pay him what he’s worth, but if he wants a ridiculous salary we should be prepared to walk.
I personally don’t like this one. One of the few players who has always shown passion and desire, and frankly contributes. We have other, weaker players whom should be replaced. In midfield alone, we should be prioritising finding a long term replacement for Matic. Add to that that he seems to have a good understanding with Pogba and their styles compliment each othe.
Yeah, if it's true that he's on 75k p/w, he's clearly due a better contract when you look at what others rake in.
And if he demands silly wages, well - thanks, Ed! Well done dishing out stupid contracts left, right and centre.
And if he demands silly wages, well - thanks, Ed! Well done dishing out stupid contracts left, right and centre.
A 120k-150k is more than OK for Ander imo.
But I don't understand why some people are understating what he brings to the team.
He reads the game very well, presses the opponents, makes vital tackles and interceptions, wringles his way in tight spaces by feigning his movements .
Most importantly helps both Young and Matic who are liabilities in terms of marking, I can't remember the match that he was literally a RB.
I know he can be upgraded, but we have high priority areas in our team, RB, CB, RW and DM. Matic is the weakest link of our midfield three and should be upgraded this summer.
It's cheaper to keep him than to replace him,if we are smart in the transfer market we should be looking at smart deals like Rabiot to improve our squad's quality and numbers like Bayern and Juve.
Please tell me an Ander's upgrade that will cost less than 50million in today's market. I'll wait.
But I don't understand why some people are understating what he brings to the team.
He reads the game very well, presses the opponents, makes vital tackles and interceptions, wringles his way in tight spaces by feigning his movements .
Most importantly helps both Young and Matic who are liabilities in terms of marking, I can't remember the match that he was literally a RB.
I know he can be upgraded, but we have high priority areas in our team, RB, CB, RW and DM. Matic is the weakest link of our midfield three and should be upgraded this summer.
It's cheaper to keep him than to replace him,if we are smart in the transfer market we should be looking at smart deals like Rabiot to improve our squad's quality and numbers like Bayern and Juve.
Please tell me an Ander's upgrade that will cost less than 50million in today's market. I'll wait.
It’s like you’re pretending PSG haven’t put an offer for him on the table. The reason we are having this conversation is because a top team in Europe are literally trying to sign a player you say they don’t play...
Very overrated by the fans. Simply not good enough to start for a top club. I'll not miss him. Too poor on the ball and inconsistant. Better with a mic than a ball.
Difficult to replace a player who can press so consistently with his energy levels who also has his ability on the ball. Didn't realise just how completely underrated and misunderstood he is by our fans until this contract drama. Who would we try to replace him with? We'll be going backwards if we lose him. If Pogba goes too it'd be a disaster
Who would you get in for him? I can't think of many players with his energy levels who can press for nearly the whole game and who are also good on the ball.
I think the hold up is contract length more than the wages to be honest.
It was Barcelona last year isn't it? How are we sure it's not Herrera's agent making up another claim to force our hands? He's not indispensable. He can't even seem to operate as a lone CDM at the base of a 3-man midfield without needing a partner sitting back alongside him just like Pogba did in his first season under Mourinho. Herrera can only operate either in a 2-man midfield or as a defensive box-box midfielder in a 3-man midfield.
Thanks to Mourinho for awakening his defensive prowess or else he would have been one of our worst signings. We didn't sign him for his defensive prowess but for his creativity which he has failed to give us so far.
Irrespective of the myriad of reports, Herrera was asked directly about the PSG interest and he didn't deny it, nor has anyone else subsequently refuted the interest.
We played with a two man midfield and a #10 in front of them. When one of those midfielders was Pogba, it goes without saying the overwhelming majority of defensive responsibility was on his shoulders. He didn't have a secondary ball winner in that midfield like Matic currently does in Ander, either. It's a strange thing to say he's perfectly fine playing in a 2 man midfield, but couldn't cope in a 3 man.
From that last paragraph I can safely assume you didn't know much of how he played at Bilbao. His intelligence in the press from an advanced position has always been one of his biggest assets. Ekeke posted a video yesterday of when he was at Bilbao and his ball winning ability is obvious then.
This question has been asked several times, and no one has given an answer yet.
He is pretty much perfect for Klopp pressing system. Juventus have Emre Can.
He would be a weak link in the team that we ultimately aspire to be. But seeing as we're a million miles away from that, it'd be a real shame to lose him.
Replacing him on top of all the work that needs to be done is pretty grim.
Replacing him on top of all the work that needs to be done is pretty grim.
Modric is equally good at high press but we all know what set him apart from these kind of midfielders. The point is, we didn't sign Herrera for his pressing game. We signed him for his supposed creativity which he has failed to deliver so far. If Mourinho didn't confirm him into a defensive specialist role, we would all still be debating on how best to use him while believing the parody that he was a creative playmaker and eventually putting the blame on his coach for failing to bring out such creativity, which is actually a farce in the first place.
I have hardly seen him operate as the base man in a 3-man midfield. He's been mostly deployed alongside Pogba or Matic in a 2-man midfield or deployed as a defensive box-box midfielder in a 3-man midfield while Matic operated as the base man hence I don't see him as a lone CDM capable of supporting two foraging no 8 midfielders in front of him. He's at his best as a box-box, albeit a defensive one in a 3-man midfield.
That aside, if a player wants to hold his club by the ball, he won't say he didn't have any interest from any other club, would he? Last season it was Barcelona, today is PSG.
Odd that this keeps being said as quite a few options have been put forward. The club could sign Declan Rice OR Ruben Neves + a veteran like Rakitic and a freebie like Rabiot, and United would all of a sudden have arguably the best midfield in the league. 3 players like that could be brought in for the price of Pogba.
Keeping Herrera and upgrading with 1-2 midfielders is not an either/or proposition.
Unless his wage demand is something on the order of 200+/week we’d be mad to let him go.
Unless his wage demand is something on the order of 200+/week we’d be mad to let him go.
You’re comparing him to the world player of the year... he’s set apart from every midfielder. And for what it’s worth, no he isn’t as good as winning the ball back as Herrera. He’s very good at pressing but doesn’t do it as well. Which comes around succinctly to another point. People don’t actually value it as a skill. How many times already have we seen it reduced to ‘working hard’ or ‘running about’ in this thread? Like any skill in football, there are levels of ability and players like Ander and Kante are at the very top.
We didn’t sign him purely to be a creative outlet. He was signed for what he demonstrated at Bilbao, and that includes his intelligence, pressing and ability to win the ball back. Unless you actually want to provide even a shred of evidence to support this, stop pushing it as fact. Just because you keep banging on about it doesn’t make it true.
So you’ve hardly seen him play as defensive midfielder in a 3 but you’ve decided he cannot play there... Yes, when he’s played in a 2 man midfield he’s had far more defensive responsibility than he would do if he played in a 3 with a 2nd player devoted to winning the ball back. You get this yes? Now considering Herreras greatest assets are his ability to cut out passing avenues, intercept, read the game and tackle, not to mention his solid passing base. It’s not a stretch to say he’s going to be able to play there, when his defensive responsibilities are lessened than when he used to play there in a 2.
Declan Rice
Not one of them does the job that Herrera does nearly as well, and it kind of just confirms that you really don’t understand the nuances of the role. You seem to rate one ball winner the same as another. That being said I would love to see a Neves here. Herrera Neves and Pogba is some midfield.
Of course I didn't just say Declan Rice...I said one of Rice/Neves + Rabiot and Rakitic. My preference would be Neves too. There are 5 or 6 other players that win the ball back at Herrera's rate or better. They just aren't fancy names you want to acknowledge.Declan Rice
Not one of them does the job that Herrera does nearly as well, and it kind of just confirms that you really don’t understand the nuances of the role. You seem to rate one ball winner the same as another. That being said I would love to see a Neves here. Herrera Neves and Pogba is some midfield.
But you still suggested Declan Rice. He isn't in the same league. Again, it just demonstrates a lack of understanding of the role. You clearly don't value the aspects that makes Herrera a great place, or you don't understand them. I hope you aren't suggesting those 5/6 players are the aforementioned names, because just no.
The issue about him leaving is more that it is for free
He signed in 2014. He's on his first contract
These were our wages in 2014 apparently
http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/
I'd be surprised if hes asking for more than £150k now
Thats almost double what hes currently on and nothing about him suggests he's selfish
These were our wages in 2014 apparently
http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/
I'd be surprised if hes asking for more than £150k now
Thats almost double what hes currently on and nothing about him suggests he's selfish
Youre not here to have a conversation about anyone replacing him though are you, because you seem to think he’s in some league of his own. When he quite clearly is not.
Why? Doesn't make any difference if it's free or for 10MIL. The point is we could keep him for about 175-200K a week or lose him then have to buy someone to replace him for a big fee on similar wages.
I understand the concern about wages but considering the wages we pay it's not even that much. We need to get our players to sign new contracts now, then start work to stop it from happening in the future ie: get rid of Sanchez. Not giving Herrera a reasonable contract is a ridiculous hill to die on. First team player 29 years old. He should be one of our highest paid players.
Explain how paying Herrera Luka Modric money makes sense.
You’re literally throwing any names out there you can think of, some which don’t even play in the same position as him and expect people to take the suggestions seriously. I mean Declan fecking Rice. As I say, kind of proves you’ve absolutely no idea what’s required to be good in the role.
No, I don’t think there are any players available that are as good as he is at his role, not ones that warrant letting him go for free and spending 50+ million to replace, anyway.
It seems you’re just thinking too narrowly which makes it difficult to have a conversation. Since when does a replacement in this sport have to be like for like? There are different qualities to bring in to our midfield that would improve it.
He is however 1 of the only 2 players to win player of the year since Sir Alex retired.
There are 25 players who have played for us in the league this season that havent won player of the year.
I already have. It's preferential to paying 50M+ for a replacement who would be on similar wages anyway and there is no guarantee the new signing would work out. Pretty simple.
It seems you have forgotten what the original point you were trying to make to begin with. I asked, and you replied, for suggestions of players who had comparable technical and ball winning ability as Herrera. You then said he's easily replaceable, and made reference to Kante and Fernandinho. When I pointed out we can't sign these places, you firstly refused to name anyone and now you're throwing out any name you can think of. The only way we are going to replace Herrera with comparable ability is to spend a large amount of money that could be used to replace our actual issue in midfield, which is Matic. Not only that, but it's clearly visible that Pogba plays significantly better with a Herrera style player in the side.
I don’t understand why technical ability keeps being mentioned, since it’s been more than obvious that we lose any creative impetus in our midfield when Pogba is marked out or injured. You can’t keep deflecting that to Matic when Herrera is the other guy that’s in there. And you can’t say that’s not his job but then also go on about his technical ability. You get that?
An upgrade to Herreras technical ability, even if it means a less astute ball winner would progress our midfield and make us a more dangerous team - one that thinks in terms of scoring goals first and not playing as scrappy underdogs.
And I never said ship him out (unless the alternative is paying him what the top midfielders in Europe are making because he’s not one). But by all means keep resorting to insults. You’re really good at having an objective conversation.
You clearly arent, part timer.
You can have good technical quality and not be much of a creative player.
You can have good technical quality and be pointless from a creative perspective? Because that’s what he is without Pogba.
Yes. Of course you can. Not that Ander is because occasionally he will make a good pass to get players in, but more often he will make a dangerous run for someone else to find him.
We've finally gotten to the crux of it. I'm not surprised you don't get it. Creativity and technical ability aren't the same thing. Its not even close.
It wouldn't progress our midfield. It needs balance, and Herrera is the only one in there that is genuinely great at winning the ball back. We could have the greatest passers in the league but it would mean sod all if we can't recycle the ball. Pogba adds creativity, Herrera adds defensive strength, it's not rocket science to figure out where we need to strengthen.
You keep regurgitating this notion we will have to pay him the same as the world's top midfielders. Even if we double his wages he'll be on £150k. That's almost half what we pay Pogba. You don't seem to get it, despite it being said repeatedly by another poster, that to replace Herrera with someone of similar ability is going to cost us significantly more.
And there it is again. 'scrappy underdogs'. It just shows complete and utter ignorance of the import and skill required to win the ball back as efficiently
as the likes of Herrera and Kante. The best teams in the world succeed because they combine attacking brilliance with overturning the ball quickly and effectively. You don't become a top team without both. There's more than one way to acheive it: just looks at the lack of creativity in Liverpools midfield, but both are essential.
I expect he can get more than £150k if he leaves on a free though
Right. But I'd be surprised if he takes that into much consideration given his comments earlier in the season about just wanting to earn a new contract.
We'll see what happens. But I could see a £150k new contract being signed by him
Honestly if he believes he deserves the quoted wages let him free, useful in big games but against sides we need some control his limitations are there for all to be seen.
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