Adebesi
Full Member
The workable solution to solve the issue is a border in the Irish sea between NI and RUK.
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What do you mean by 'pat each other than back'? For what exactly?This thread should be renamed 'Brexit from a Remainer's perspective '. It's amusing how many you pat each other on the back whilst proclaiming all Brexiteers are dumb and racist. Maybe if both sides were bit more open to each other's perspective we still wouldn't be sat waiting in limbo whilst everyone continues to shout at each other.
@711 is oldBrexiteers tend to be older, whereas this forum has a younger leaning contingent. Same as how more people vote Tory than Labour, but Tories tend to be quite underrepresented around here.
Great, so where are you putting the border between the UK and the EU? If it's not on the island of Ireland is it in the sea between NI and rUK? Or are you suggesting that we don't need a border at all, in which case are you advocating a Single Market arrangement?Well if the EU and UK government wanted Brexit to happen, how hard is it to write a piece of legislation that means Ireland can have an open border between the two countries, afterall the two countries are land locked. The EU is fully aware of the political history. They are using it as a weapon to delay and stop Brexit ever happening.
It's not down to me to make a workable solution. But what a lot of remainers are saying now is 'it's too difficult to leave, so why bother'. This is all hidden behind legal documents which can be amended if both parties came to an agreement. My point is neither the EU or the UK government want us to leave, so none of the easy options are being taken.To access the EU's four freedoms you need to be in the EU. Ireland aren't. We won't be. Therefore we don't get the same access.
And even if we somehow were in the morally justified position here, we've already been told this isn't a viable solution, which means it's null and void. What's your workable solution to solve the issue?
Not sure there'll be enough votes for that in parliament, and if there isn't the DUP would potentially bring down the government over it. Seems bizarre to effectively have a border within a sovereign nation, especially where there hasn't been one before. Although, yes, it's probably the closest we have to something resembling a solution. But it's an unpopular one...which begs the question as to why we'd be implementing it at all.The workable solution to solve the issue is a border in the Irish sea between NI and RUK.
They are too used to not being challenged.What do you mean by 'pat each other than back'? For what exactly?
Whenever a leaver comes in here they're asked to put forward their views and people listen and question. It's the leavers who then get annoyed with being questioned and choose not to engage further.
If you want your arguments to be taken seriously and credibly then you need to be arguing within the realm of what might actually happen. Otherwise you're discussing hypotheticals which aren't going to be taken seriously.It's not down to me to make a workable solution. But what a lot of remainers are saying now is 'it's too difficult to leave, so why bother'. This is all hidden by legal documents which can be amended if both parties came to an agreement. My point is neither the EU or the UK government want us to leave, so none of the easy options are being taken.
Such a crap analogy thatIts funny how @Stanley Road has bemoaned the belittling attitude towards leavers arguments yet chooses the most ludicrous hill to die on.
Lads, there is no point in buying Messi for Manchester United because there is NO HISTORICAL DATA if he would improve the team! Has he ever transferred before? NO! Has he ever played for United before? NO! How can you plebs come to the conclusion that he would strengthen the team????
For France the subject is dealt through ordinances for customs, citizens rights, financial services or transports among other things, some local industries will be supported financially to compensate the potential consequences of a no deal too.you mean google so I can find someones 2nd hand opinion from a different forum than this. It always amuses me how remainers can only resort to insults, very intelligent.
I'd say it's mostly because of the promotion system. Lefties are much more likely to get promoted.I do find it strange that given the country is split right down the middle on this issue, the Remain side is so over represented in this thread. I know not everyone posting in it is from the UK which skews it a bit, but you would still have thought there would be more Brexiters in here making their case.
A lot of people in here, like me, aren't remainers, because we're not even British. With Stratchan above I was simply arguing against his logic because it was illogical and nonsensical. He had no facts to back himself up and he couldn't counter any facts presented to him with anything other than "i'm done for now" or "we'll figure it out" or the usual stuff Leaver's say in this thread when presented with hard, cold facts.This thread should be renamed 'Brexit from a Remainer's perspective '. It's amusing how many you pat each other on the back whilst proclaiming all Brexiteers are dumb and racist. Maybe if both sides were bit more open to each other's perspective we still wouldn't be sat waiting in limbo whilst everyone continues to shout at each other.
Well hopefully they are all so ashamed of themselves for voting to leave that they don't want to let us know who they are.I do find it strange that given the country is split right down the middle on this issue, the Remain side is so over represented in this thread. I know not everyone posting in it is from the UK which skews it a bit, but you would still have thought there would be more Brexiters in here making their case.
Nah I don't think that's it at all. The majority of the Caf are a young-ish population, combined with a lot of Irish people (who are almost unanimously pro-EU), some Scottish etc. and you probably get a very accurate ratio of leaver's to remainer's in here, actually. Plus I imagine a lot of leaver's on the Caf are reluctant to come forward given the roasting's their colleagues get in here.I'd say it's mostly because of the promotion system. Lefties are much more likely to get promoted.
By not having the DUP in your party, could have been solved months agoAlright, how do you solve the Irish border issue then?
No, I mean literally google your question: "What preparation have eu countries done?" and the second result is a European Commission press release entitled: "Brexit Preparedness: EU completes preparations for possible "no-deal" scenario on 12 April".you mean google so I can find someones 2nd hand opinion from a different forum than this. It always amuses me how remainers can only resort to insults, very intelligent.
Certainly would never argue its a popular idea. But if we are going to leave the EU and if there is going to be no border in Ireland it is the only way I can see of making it work.Not sure there'll be enough votes for that in parliament, and if there isn't the DUP would potentially bring down the government over it. Seems bizarre to effectively have a border within a sovereign nation, especially where there hasn't been one before. Although, yes, it's probably the closest we have to something resembling a solution. But it's an unpopular one...which begs the question as to why we'd be implementing it at all.
Honestly what is the point with some of you? It becomes 10 extreme remainers (ironically most are not even from the UK) against 1 leaver which you continually patronise, insult and belittle. Then you proclaim victory because the leaver can't be bothered to make any further points without being insulted about his opinion.Maybe we'd get more open discussion if Brexiteers actually explained why Brexit is a good idea instead of moaning about the other side when they're proven to be spouting bollocks?
I haven't insulted, patronised or belittled you, so I would very much like it if you could answer my question above please.Honestly what is the point with some of you? It becomes 10 extreme remainers (ironically most are not even from the UK) against 1 leaver which you continually patronise, insult and belittle. Then you proclaim victory because the leaver can't be bothered to make any further points without being insulted about his opinion.
Why? Because Niall and his cabal of Merry Men running this place are commies?I'd say it's mostly because of the promotion system. Lefties are much more likely to get promoted.
I'm not even an extreme Remainer. I recognise there are severe problems within the EU and I find a lot of the People's Vote mob to be cringe inducing as feck. But I'm tired of Brexiteers who, after their arguments get dismantled with ease, resort to moaning about how Remainers aren't being nice to them instead of recognising that their arguments are incorrect and that a bit of introspection might come in handy. Apologies if I came across as a dick at all because I don't mean to - it's just that it's fecking tiresome to see Brexiteers trying to defend this whole process over and over again without actually mounting any coherent arguments, precisely because there are none.Honestly what is the point with some of you? It becomes 10 extreme remainers (ironically most are not even from the UK) against 1 leaver which you continually patronise, insult and belittle. Then you proclaim victory because the leaver can't be bothered to make any further points without being insulted about his opinion.
I disagree. The forum is centre left to left generally. The Brexit poll on here back in the day was 86% remain. Brexiteer's and right wing people are a minority on here.Nah I don't think that's it at all. The majority of the Caf are a young-ish population, combined with a lot of Irish people (who are almost unanimously pro-EU), some Scottish etc. and you probably get a very accurate ratio of leaver's to remainer's in here, actually. Plus I imagine a lot of leaver's on the Caf are reluctant to come forward given the roasting's their colleagues get in here.
Because the scouts promote posters they like and will generally like posters with similar views to their own. Because they're human.Why? Because Niall and his cabal of Merry Men running this place are commies?
Isnt that what I said?Because the scouts promote posters they like and will generally like posters with similar views to their own.
There is nothing ironic about people not from the UK having an opinion on a UK event which directly impacts us.Honestly what is the point with some of you? It becomes 10 extreme remainers (ironically most are not even from the UK) against 1 leaver which you continually patronise, insult and belittle. Then you proclaim victory because the leaver can't be bothered to make any further points without being insulted about his opinion.
I agree lots of people who voted to stay in the EU without giving much thought to the GFA and all sorts of other things.The people who chose to disrupt the status quo have a greater responsibility to understand the impacts that will have. The people who took the safer option have less to justify. You can criticise them for other things related to status quo thinking, but not this.I never said referendums were a leap of faith. Read again?
Ok me and all the remainers on the forum have a difference of opinion re: immigration.
You lot are confidently predicting immigration will not fall significantly and you are saying that BEFORE the government actually go ahead and change the UK immigration policy.
I’m saying, let’s wait & see before we judge.
Which is the more sensible position?
Sorry I didn’t pay due diligence to the NI situation. If everybody in the UK mainland said that that was at the forefront of their mind when they voted, I’d be very dubious. Doesn’t excuse it though, granted. However, I gave an answer of sorts, which is more than I’ve had to some of my questions, whilst batting off a pack of baying wolves over the last couple of days?
So on that note, I’m off & will leave it all right there. Thanks.
Facts and compelling arguements would go a long way. Most of you would rather complain about the frosty reception you received though... Then slink off playing the victim.Honestly what is the point with some of you? It becomes 10 extreme remainers (ironically most are not even from the UK) against 1 leaver which you continually patronise, insult and belittle. Then you proclaim victory because the leaver can't be bothered to make any further points without being insulted about his opinion.
Not exactly. The forum is more centre left. There are only a few bedroom Bolsheviks when you get down to it.Isnt that what I said?
how is that disagreeing with me?I disagree. The forum is centre left to left generally. The Brexit poll on here back in the day was 86% remain. Brexiteer's and right wing people are a minority on here.
And that's my point really. There are solutions to the Irish border issue, but Brexiteers (and not just the DUP) don't like any of them. They also hate the compromise positions, but attack Remainers for not doing more to facilitate their viewpoint.By not having the DUP in your party, could have been solved months ago
You disagreed with my reasoning. Do you really think the CAF would be so left wing and middle class if it was a completely open board?how is that disagreeing with me?
Yes.You disagreed with my reasoning. Do you really think the CAF would be so left wing and middle class if it was a completely open board?
Their ideal solution at this point is pretty much no deal, which is basically tantamount to not having any solution at all because you recognise none exist.And that's my point really. There are solutions to the Irish border issue, but Brexiteers (and not just the DUP) don't like any of them. They also hate the compromise positions, but attack Remainers for not doing more to facilitate their viewpoint.
It's been three years and we're no closer to finding a solution to Brexit that satisfies Brexiteers, until we get to a point where they come up with a workable solution they actually want I'm not sure what we can do for them.
Look at other places online with big interaction. Right wingers are there but they’re always smaller in number despite the noise they make.You disagreed with my reasoning. Do you really think the CAF would be so left wing and middle class if it was a completely open board?
That's a fair point, it seems logical enough.Yes.
Pretty sure we had this conversation already and @Damien gave examples of other forums that are basically the exact same.
The internet in general is dominated by younger and therefore more left-leaning people. And forums mainly attract middle-class, educated people.
Considerably older than you of course, and wiser and more knowledgeable too, naturally.@711 is old
Simple solution: ignore Murica. They’re too far gone. As you say, what they think is left wing is what we would call the Tories.The problem with the left-right conversation is that by US-UK standards I'm probably a raging communist when by french standards I'm center right.
It's odd to me that this forum is majority left leaning, but irrespective of that the Brexit voters are definitely underrepresented. Which seems a pretty clear indication that the atmosphere towards Leave voters is so oppressive that there's no reason to get involved. Lots of people on here celebrate that atmosphere too, while simultaneously taking the piss out of Leave voters for not having a voice. It's a win win for people of that persuasion, and while they might not be the majority they're certainly vocal enough to shape the overall conversation.I do find it strange that given the country is split right down the middle on this issue, the Remain side is so over represented in this thread. I know not everyone posting in it is from the UK which skews it a bit, but you would still have thought there would be more Brexiters in here making their case.