The Skywalker angle is still there, he's just the bad guy again.
It would be interesting if, as @caid mentioned above, the title is actually about the legend of Luke cementing itself at the same time his bloodline ceases to exist.
Film Star Wars: Episode IX (The Rise of Skywalker) | Teaser Trailer Released
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It would be interesting if, as @caid mentioned above, the title is actually about the legend of Luke cementing itself at the same time his bloodline ceases to exist.
Didn't
Darth Maul in canon also survive being chopped in half and falling down a tunnel?
Not just in canon, he appears at the end of Solo
Johnson really missed a trick by not showing Snoke to be Palpatine's master which made a lot of sense, and it was what many fans wanted. Instead his fetish on making every decision as non-Star Wars as possible resulted with him getting killed, and now Palps has to come back.
Even the old script of Lukas done in the eighties had the Emperor's master as the final enemy. While I love Palps, don't know if it is a great idea on him returning and kind of makes Vader's sacrifice not as strong as it was.
Even the old script of Lukas done in the eighties had the Emperor's master as the final enemy. While I love Palps, don't know if it is a great idea on him returning and kind of makes Vader's sacrifice not as strong as it was.
Snoke was a fairly boring character in the first place though, wasn't exactly a lot there to work with. Kylo killing him out of nowhere was a fairly welcome element of surprise.
Suppose, but then isn't he already meant to be a legend within the whole Star Wars universe by the time of TFA? I recall Finn and Rey being fairly taken aback that Han knew him.
Aye, electric discharge from Palpatine's force ability. They should shoot whole thing with old black & white camera so it could have Boris Karloff's Frankenstein vibe from 1931.
Ironically we would be back to paying homage to great classics like George Lucas always wanted Star Wars to be in the first place.
I agree with all that. I'd go further than boring, I'd say she's an awful character. Worse than Jar Jar Binks, at least Jar Jar is only a side character.
The call backs to the old films are being chucked in now with wreckless abandon, but have they done anyone any justice at all? We found out where Han got his jacket and gun that he still had all those years later. Leia got used as a side character then turned into Mary Poppins. Luke got to display an extreme amount of Force power in the end up, but was used as Rey's bitch another foil to show how great she is and that she don't need no help from no man. He was also very weird. Chewy was treated like Han's bitch then when he died he seemed to get passed off as property to Rey along with the Falcon. He's not even a character, he's a thing now. Even the Falcon got sacrificed on the alter of "Rey's great!". R2 and 3PO have barely been in it. Maul being alive has always been utterly ridiculous and should never have been canon. Nien Nunb and Ackbar are the only ones to more or less come out unscathed.
I think Palpatine and Lando are being thrown in because they are two of the very few cards they have left and they will get the same treatment. Boba Fett will get it in The Mandalorian. Vader is going to get it too, he's the big card and it worked in Rogue One they will get desperate and chuck him in too. Bringing people back from the dead renders their deaths in previous films less impactful.
Because he's an arrogant prick who went out of his way to be the super cool hipster who broke the Star Wars mould to avoid predictability. At least with JJ it will feel llike a Star Wars movie.
I'm one of the people who thought TLJ was a decent film but the guy clearly decided I'm going to feck everything in the first movie out, start again and than leave it hanging so JJ has nothing to work with.
Palpatine maybe, Lando returning isn't that outlandish though, he's obviously still alive and is an experienced pilot who would obviously prove useful for the good guys.
Yup, not only great pilot but also one of few experenced leaders left, especially after Admiral Ackbar's demise.
Honestly, they should bring him back earlier as he would fit that casino scene from TLJ more than anyone.
Oh yeah I agree, I'm not saying he doesn't make any narrative sense. It just feels cynical and one last attempt to play on nostalgia. He should have been back before now anyway. Leia hugging him or Chewy after Han's death would have made a lot more sense than her hugging Rey. He would have been great to have around then, maybe seeing him get a bit broken by the whole thing and giving Chewy someone to play off. Them taking Rey to find Luke instead of her just commandeering the Falcon would work better too with Lando and Luke meeting up again. Lando and Chewy telling Luke about Han's death could have been powerful.
Solo wasn't exactly lacking in nostalgia. The Force Awakens was weighed down by it. Just think they need to push through and tell new, good stories. Spending a movie rewriting the Last Jedi with some nostalgia bait cameos from characters whose story is done and dusted just sounds like the premise for a bad movie
Perhaps, but Billy Dee Williams is in his 80s, probably didn't want to commit to a whole trilogy of films.
Shit, I didn't realise he was that old. He didn't look it in the trailer.
I think they say "myth", so he's a kind of forgotten hero I guess. Either way I think the Skywalker saga needs some finality to it, and I'm glad there's no Snoke around with his terrible name and dress sense.
I don't believe what he said for a second. You say "that's obviously what he intended", but I don't buy it at all. In fact, I'd suggest it's obvious that Ren was just using that and she was always going to at least be connected. Problem now is, when it turns out her parents aren't in fact nobodies, people will scream "OMG RETCON!" and it'll be the reverse of the TLJ thing where those that loved that will hate 9 and vice versa
Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be nice to go a new route. But nothing in any of the films suggests that, including TLJ. In fact, Johnson himself paid way too much fan service imo.
Or it sounds like a great way to finally finish it all and open up the world for new stories.
They could never have done anything different with 7,8,9 it simply had to be about Luke/Skywalkers and moving on. I'd argue Johnson fecked it up by being a stubborn twat about certain things, should have just let them play out and left the opening for a new generation. I don't see how everybody wouldn't be happy with that.
I know right? It's like being a fan of something is wrong and everything should change for change sake. I'd rather they went nostalgic, wrote a good story to explain it all, then moved on with a fresh trilogy. What we ended up with are two films so down the middle, that it makes no one that happy.
I still don't get how people were happy with how that happened. I mean he connected Ren and Rey's minds across the galaxy, yet couldn't see what he was doing right there? Then Ren goes on to get whooped by a red guard? I just found it all so simple and dumb, yet apparently it was a big deal as a plot twist. I don't get the logic there at all. Snoke was trash up until that point, no doubt, but even having him rise up in front of their eyes to form a new enemy whilst Ren and Rey had to unite their factions to beat him would have been less dumb and at least some kind of new road to go down.
Now the sort of people who think that was a good thing complain that they bring Palps back in some fashion, I mean what exactly is the alternative now after that? Ren vs Rey?
Well yeah, given that's what the whole trilogy has now been building towards. Ren's a good villain.
I don't think Palpatine will be the climax, it'll be something they have to do/find/kill before the big final fight against Ren's lot.
I think that's a big problem they have, in that as soon as a Force user gets involved all logic seems to get chucked out the window and they put it down to "using the Force". They need a clear set of rules on what Force users can and can't do. It's like the old "a wizard did it" except they just chuck into plot points everywhere. "She used the Force."
Why on earth would Johnson lie about it? He gains absolutely zero from doing so, nor is there anything to suggest he actually intended something other than what he literally said he intended. Plus as @Ubik said earlier, Rey's parents being nobody is a twist that is absolutely built into the perspective of TLJ. The entire rest of the film thematically suggests that Rey's parents are nobodies.I don't believe what he said for a second. You say "that's obviously what he intended", but I don't buy it at all. In fact, I'd suggest it's obvious that Ren was just using that and she was always going to at least be connected. Problem now is, when it turns out her parents aren't in fact nobodies, people will scream "OMG RETCON!" and it'll be the reverse of the TLJ thing where those that loved that will hate 9 and vice versa
Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be nice to go a new route. But nothing in any of the films suggests that, including TLJ. In fact, Johnson himself paid way too much fan service imo.
I mean...the original trilogy was basically built on that logic. The force is essentially a state of mind as opposed to something you gradually level up in as if it's a video game. Luke's still (relatively speaking) a bit of a novice come ROTJ but he nevertheless manages to best Vader the moment he actually tries in their final fight. And Yoda's whole spiel in Empire is basically telling you the force is basically intuition. It's not all logical and laid out, and never was.
I don't think Johnson would necessarily 'lie' about anything as such, he just went with his own vision for the film and it's quite possible that vision happened to contradict most of what Abrams wanted to do. It might seem ridiculous not to plan it out, but then Abrams is basically the poster boy for being a big director who's quite talented but who never knows where he's going with something, and the original trilogy's biggest moment (and Star Wars' biggest moment as a whole) is pretty much a retcon that got decided well after the first movie had been made.
Some thoughts. Don't read if you haven't read Legends/Sidious in canon.
They once brought Palpatine back to life in the Legends novels, which involved making a clone of himself. They might go down that route. Also, in the Sidious novel in new canon, there's quite an emphasis on Sidious' master, Plagueis' obsession with bringing the dead to life, either by cloning or more specifically by midichlorian manipulation. This was Plagueis' force power. We know he never did manage it, however, he had a hidden base where he extensively worked on it. It's very possible that they might go down the route of Palpatine having continued Plagueis' work and actually completing it. How that ties in with Anakin, it's speculated that either Anakin or Rey were created in this manner. The chosen one, so to speak.
Retconning Vadar's redemption & Luke's victory.
There's nothing Disney won't turn to shit in the persuit of Nostalgia Dollars!
There's nothing Disney won't turn to shit in the persuit of Nostalgia Dollars!
God, yeah. Didn’t think of that. Love Palps, but I’d rather he was kept out of this mess tbh.
It will certainly be hard for it to be as awful as TLJ was. 50/50 on if I’ll see it or not. I’ll probably wait until sources I trust see it and then decide. Can’t stomach another bad Star Wars movie.
Who's said he's lying? He's hardly going to kick up a fuss anyway is he, but what he said smacks of knowing what's going on and being neutral. In fact it could also mean that the whole parentage thing sticks and he's just playing on it all. And no the entire film doesn't suggest that at all, you just want it to. Maybe I'm not as big a fan as you, so I see it differently, but I'm not having this whole "retcon" nonsense is all.
Finally, her coming from nothing and still being nothing isn't even a twist. And making her suddenly all powerful in the force makes even less sense then, and makes the world less consistent. Change is good, but not at the expense of good story within the already semi-defined world. I mean surely you won't be satisfied if it does turn out she is a nobody and is hugely powerful "just because". I mean, how is that in any way any kind of story?
I don't even know why I'm bothering debating this, as the whole thing is a mess anyway. There's no defined lines, someone changing the whole universe in a film just because is seen by some as progress, whilst others think it should stay exactly the same. No one wins, and it's just about wizards and prince/princesses anyway
Luke did get progessively stronger as he learned things though. He learned the basics from Obi Wan, before which he couldn't use the Force. Then got a bit of training from Yoda and got a bit stronger, before getting the shit kicked out of him by Vader. He then went back to Yoda, had more time to train and eventually bested Vader after going psycho on him. Granted he was relatively a novice, but still a far cry from what we're getting with Rey. Random Force powers weren't being chucked in all that much, outside of maybe the wompa cave where he moved the lightsaber. There was clear progress and it felt more defined.
Anakin is the real outlier and when the problems started. It's an issue they had with Luke in the novels too where they'd get carried away with what Jedi can do and have him way over powered. I just think they need to define the limits a bit better or it's going to keep on being a writing crutch.
I wish Star Wars would get away from all the fecking reoccurring themes of Skywalker, Rebels vs Empire and all that stuff... but through all the years of fan pandering and fan servicing, they back themselves further into the corner to the point anything new they attempt will be hated on by their contemptible fanbase (probably the main reason I hate Star Wars these days is that cringe, awful fanboy horde)
At least Star Trek hasn’t had to rely just on TOS characters and situations to be successful.
At least Star Trek hasn’t had to rely just on TOS characters and situations to be successful.
Did I make it in before someone said "star wars has jumped the tie fighter"?
I really don't think you need to give "power" a backstory like that. Like, the originals stand and work on their own. You don't need to know the awful backstory of how Vader/Anakin was powerful because he was conceived by little microscopic beings (who are also the reason the force is powerful, because we really needed to know that as well), that may or may not have been helped along by an evil-doer. Everyone just got on pretty fine just thinking this guy was... born like a normal person and turned out pretty forcey.Who's said he's lying? He's hardly going to kick up a fuss anyway is he, but what he said smacks of knowing what's going on and being neutral. In fact it could also mean that the whole parentage thing sticks and he's just playing on it all. And no the entire film doesn't suggest that at all, you just want it to. Maybe I'm not as big a fan as you, so I see it differently, but I'm not having this whole "retcon" nonsense is all.
Finally, her coming from nothing and still being nothing isn't even a twist. And making her suddenly all powerful in the force makes even less sense then, and makes the world less consistent. Change is good, but not at the expense of good story within the already semi-defined world. I mean surely you won't be satisfied if it does turn out she is a nobody and is hugely powerful "just because". I mean, how is that in any way any kind of story?
I don't even know why I'm bothering debating this, as the whole thing is a mess anyway. There's no defined lines, someone changing the whole universe in a film just because is seen by some as progress, whilst others think it should stay exactly the same. No one wins, and it's just about wizards and prince/princesses anyway
How bout that Yoda, dude can lift an X-Wing with his mind and he's barely the size of an ugly owl, won't believe that until I know who his parents were.
And the funny thing is, they blame us, and not their woeful writing. cnuts.Retconning Vadar's redemption & Luke's victory.
There's nothing Disney won't turn to shit in the persuit of Nostalgia Dollars!
This is exactly the problem though. They don’t need to rely on the same set of characters to be successful. The Star Wars universe has an insane amount of content and characters that would make excellent movies. I highly doubt that these recent movies were made to try and appeal to long time fans, as these are the ones who dislike the recent movies the most. Not sure who these movies are meant to appeal to, to be honest.
Looking like another bad'un. Disney's ones have been as bad as Episodes 1 & 2. Probably worse as the prequels, despite the overall quality being poor, had classic characters.
Should've just based this next lot of films on Kyle Katarn.
Should've just based this next lot of films on Kyle Katarn.
ANything would have been better than repeating the exact same climax from 4 and 6.
It really does though. Ren reveals it saying 'you already know this'. The scene in the cave with the vision of nothing but her. Thats leaving behind the entire theme and plot of the movie which reinforces the idea. Kill the past.Who's said he's lying? He's hardly going to kick up a fuss anyway is he, but what he said smacks of knowing what's going on and being neutral. In fact it could also mean that the whole parentage thing sticks and he's just playing on it all. And no the entire film doesn't suggest that at all, you just want it to. Maybe I'm not as big a fan as you, so I see it differently, but I'm not having this whole "retcon" nonsense is all.
Finally, her coming from nothing and still being nothing isn't even a twist. And making her suddenly all powerful in the force makes even less sense then, and makes the world less consistent. Change is good, but not at the expense of good story within the already semi-defined world. I mean surely you won't be satisfied if it does turn out she is a nobody and is hugely powerful "just because". I mean, how is that in any way any kind of story?
I don't even know why I'm bothering debating this, as the whole thing is a mess anyway. There's no defined lines, someone changing the whole universe in a film just because is seen by some as progress, whilst others think it should stay exactly the same. No one wins, and it's just about wizards and prince/princesses anyway
Not having this either. They finished it 30 years ago in Return of the Jedi. Their inability (or unwillingness in the Force Awakens case) to write new stories is the primary issue with star wars.
For me the prequels aren't just bad Star Wars movies - why introduce midichlorians, why make Anakin such a useless character with poorly developed motivation - but also as movies themselves. The dialogue in particular, and the absolute lack of depth for any character.
TFA and TLJ are at least competent movies with basics like motivations and characters and dialogue. Personally I also liked TLJ's scenes involving Rey and Kylo. The rest is either a rehash (TFA) or bad (the rest of TLJ). Still, for me, easily better than the prequels.
I think they were probably more worried they were gonna repeat ep 1 so went for safety. There were at least separate character based climaxes, though, which kept it interesting. But then he sends her off to get training with an old Jedi master in hiding on a remote planet, to set up the second film...