It was a mistake for anyone who thought we could keep up the level of consistency in beating quality teams with our players (there's a reason why they weren't good for previous managers bar few games per season).
Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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As would Moyes', and even Mourinho's if he'd resigned the moment he wasn't backed and all we had to remember were his first 2 seasons' success.
You can't blame Ole for taking it though - it's like a 16 year old boy who owns a 50cc moped being offered a Black Lamborghini Aventador, he's always gonna take it...
I don't feel any animosity toward OGS, not one bit, and I don't think I ever will - but I'm furious with those that made the decision, and I do believe, controversially it seems, that the decision can and should be reversed in the close season.
Congratulations, your complete trainwreck of a post is surely up there for most idiotic post of the year awards
Apparently there are no better managers than Ole, anyone who thinks that there are, can basically die Some severe delusion and pure stupidity.With a recruitment strategy based on mentality, as far as we know...Scary to think where we could end up.
7 losses from 9 is Utd’s worst run since 1962 ....nineteen sixty fecking two!
Agreed. I did have animosity towards Mourinho because of the way he conducts himself. But I knew all along he was right about the team not being good enough.
It could've been you or someone else just earlier that said the Ole decision feels like potentially the most egregious one Ed's made yet, which is saying something. It just lacks in competence and responsibility and professionalism and just about anything else you would hope to go into such a decision.
It really does not matter about the managers tactics and coaching if the players are just not willing to/unable to carry them out. This squad, or at least some of them, have demonstrated how obtuse they can be in regards to carrying out instructions under Mourhinho. He tried to sort it out seemingly b attacking individual members of the squad in public and defending himself by stating what a great record he had as a coach. Ole has the same squad and it appears the same problems some of which will not be solved without changing some of the squad and improving the mentality of others. Time will tell if he is capable of doing this but I for one wish him well. Does anyone on here really believe that any other manager could have come in and immediately done better? If so please name him and describe how we could have got that person come the close season.
Don't forget that a number of the squad are stalling on new contracts using Sanchez`s salary as a lever, not Ole`s making. All the above problems and others have been generated over a number of years by poor management by those higher up the tree who appear to be bullet proof to the result of their actions. Save your judgement of Ole for the time being as he is here at least for the short term and lets see where we are by Christmas. In a relegation battle or vying for top three.
Don't forget that a number of the squad are stalling on new contracts using Sanchez`s salary as a lever, not Ole`s making. All the above problems and others have been generated over a number of years by poor management by those higher up the tree who appear to be bullet proof to the result of their actions. Save your judgement of Ole for the time being as he is here at least for the short term and lets see where we are by Christmas. In a relegation battle or vying for top three.
He wont have much time to turn things around if the fans are already this worried and sharpening the knives.I was weary of this appointment and hope I'm wrong but unless there are structural changes or gets the right players in he will fail I fear.
Ole is really struggling at the moment, I think his inexperience is telling at the moment. However, as a Man Utd supporter, I can buy into his plan which is an aggressive attacking style of football, and thus will still back him. The players are showing their true nature, many are not skilful enough and not fit enough.We know there has to be big changes to the playing staff.
I would recommend him bringing in more experience into his coaching staff, having Phelan back at the club is great, I would trust his opinion on the squad and our football and Ole should get people like him into the club who can help him with this difficult job.
I would recommend him bringing in more experience into his coaching staff, having Phelan back at the club is great, I would trust his opinion on the squad and our football and Ole should get people like him into the club who can help him with this difficult job.
Ole can never succeed here, and it’s nothing to do with his ability.
Like most of us, I’ll always love Ole for all he did for us - all of it, and his love for our club. But as a manager, his track record, and even his understanding of what is needed to compete in modern top-level football, is patchy, to be generous. But I can’t blame him for taking the job. How could he say no?
Yet, even if he was a superb manager, how could he do anything with this squad? Who can turn Young, Bailly, Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Mata, Matic, Sanchez, or Fred into top-level footballers? Last time I checked, Solskjær was a manager, not a magician. Let’s be honest - David May, Kieran Richardson and Luke Chadwick could get into this side. Maybe even William Prunier.
Even if he manages, by some miracle to get us into the top four by seasons end, that is a Pyrrhic victory. All that would do is convince Woodward and the Glazers that value can continue to be “extracted” from the club in the form of increased commercial revenues, without significant re-investment into the squad, and without meaningful commitment to a 5-10 year investment strategy into the scouting and coaching setup, and the playing squad. As long as Manchester United continue to qualify for the Champions League for 3/5 years of each cycle, commercial income based on our global fanbase will continue to grow, and that is what matters to our executive. Success on the field is secondary.
Olé is the wrong man for the job. I adore him, and he has been placed in an impossible situation. He is under-qualified, and over-eager. His love for the club cannot make players better, or make him able to create a squad with the capabilities to challenge at the very top, with a board unwilling to invest appropriately.
He’s going to be sacked by Christmas. I just hope that when he is, we all serenade him off, and we don’t allow this to tarnish his reputation with us.
Like most of us, I’ll always love Ole for all he did for us - all of it, and his love for our club. But as a manager, his track record, and even his understanding of what is needed to compete in modern top-level football, is patchy, to be generous. But I can’t blame him for taking the job. How could he say no?
Yet, even if he was a superb manager, how could he do anything with this squad? Who can turn Young, Bailly, Jones, Smalling, Darmian, Mata, Matic, Sanchez, or Fred into top-level footballers? Last time I checked, Solskjær was a manager, not a magician. Let’s be honest - David May, Kieran Richardson and Luke Chadwick could get into this side. Maybe even William Prunier.
Even if he manages, by some miracle to get us into the top four by seasons end, that is a Pyrrhic victory. All that would do is convince Woodward and the Glazers that value can continue to be “extracted” from the club in the form of increased commercial revenues, without significant re-investment into the squad, and without meaningful commitment to a 5-10 year investment strategy into the scouting and coaching setup, and the playing squad. As long as Manchester United continue to qualify for the Champions League for 3/5 years of each cycle, commercial income based on our global fanbase will continue to grow, and that is what matters to our executive. Success on the field is secondary.
Olé is the wrong man for the job. I adore him, and he has been placed in an impossible situation. He is under-qualified, and over-eager. His love for the club cannot make players better, or make him able to create a squad with the capabilities to challenge at the very top, with a board unwilling to invest appropriately.
He’s going to be sacked by Christmas. I just hope that when he is, we all serenade him off, and we don’t allow this to tarnish his reputation with us.
Ole needs to firgfo about trying to be SAF no 2.
He needs better coaching staff and if someone like Quiroz will come then it will be a good thing
He needs better coaching staff and if someone like Quiroz will come then it will be a good thing
Just imagine needing to modernize as a football club so desperately and then hiring a feel good manager who can't stop talking about the old days and potentially appointing one of the good ol boys to the DoF position...
I think we actually did better yesterday than the shit the team offered against Everton but we really don't have the quality. It's really unfortunate.
I would still like us to continue with the 3-man defence of Darmain, Smalling and Lindelof. They just have to improve their understanding with one another.
Darmain - Smalling - Lindelof;
O'Connor - MCTominay - Fred - Shaw;
...................Pogba............
Rashford - Greenwood. (3412)
Give Pogba a free role.
I would still like us to continue with the 3-man defence of Darmain, Smalling and Lindelof. They just have to improve their understanding with one another.
Darmain - Smalling - Lindelof;
O'Connor - MCTominay - Fred - Shaw;
...................Pogba............
Rashford - Greenwood. (3412)
Give Pogba a free role.
So sad to watch some of you rip Ole to shreds.
City was better than us in every position today, and they still had another gear. Off game for them I’d say.
If you were to do a combined 11 of the top 6, would our best player, Pogba, even make the team? Would we have a single player in the 11?
I just can’t fathom how you can turn on him so quickly after you were applauding his start.
City was better than us in every position today, and they still had another gear. Off game for them I’d say.
If you were to do a combined 11 of the top 6, would our best player, Pogba, even make the team? Would we have a single player in the 11?
I just can’t fathom how you can turn on him so quickly after you were applauding his start.
Nah. They knew they wouldn't have to get out of second gear to beat us. Might as well save their energy for teams who are for it.
I think most questioning Ole have made it pretty clear that they will never turn on him personally, but that he hadn't done enough to warrant taking the reigns at this club at this point in time.
Funny you would ask that...
Seriously, though, you're right on. It's been noted by several that he's putting pretty much a different lineup out there every time, shifting formations, doing anything and everything he can. Three things I've noticed: Nothing works, because the players simply fail to execute when it's right there in front of them. Significant numbers of posters second guess the lineup, usually suggesting someone else who they'd otherwise complain about if they were listed as starting or offering no alternatives at all. Significant numbers of posters second guess the substitutions, complaining either of the player going in, the player going out, or the timing, when in reality, most of the players need to be subbed out and none of the bench need to be subbed in and both are true at almost any point of the game.
Ole's hands are tied, as is the club's for three more games. Only after the season can anything hope to change. I really want to see who he ships out (it won't be everyone, that's impossible) and who he brings in (it won't be every position, again impossible) and how he shapes them over the preseason and what he does with them in the fall. They won't get rid of him before next year's end and it may well be painful, and they may not fire him even then.
But for all the hyperbole about "relegation form," this is not a team anywhere near relegation form (Ole has scored more points in his time in charge than any of the bottom 5 teams have scored all year all year) and I, for one, am sick of hearing it. He's scored 6 more than Emery, 7 more than Poch, and 8 more than Sarri. His last five games in league are identical to Arsenal with a squad that, from most indications around here, belong in the Championship.
I won’t judge him until next season, Pep barely scraped 4th with non-Pep players, proving that having top players is way more important than any manager.
If Solskjaer & the club bring the right players in they will succeed, if they don’t then Ole will go the same way as the other three blokes.
If Solskjaer & the club bring the right players in they will succeed, if they don’t then Ole will go the same way as the other three blokes.
People just need to be realistic....yes the losing streak is bad but looking at the fixtures what are people expecting:
vs Barcelona - Expected to lose twice - Loss as expected
vs Man City - Best team in Europe - Loss expected
vs Arsenal - Difficult away game played well but lost
vs Wolves - Difficult games - FA Cup outplayed , PL missed our chances
vs Everton - Was the Shambles
Man United were is a no win situation with OGS. If he wasnt hired just imagine if the new manager gets off to a bad start the fans would turn instantly.
People need to stop being knee jerk all the time.
vs Barcelona - Expected to lose twice - Loss as expected
vs Man City - Best team in Europe - Loss expected
vs Arsenal - Difficult away game played well but lost
vs Wolves - Difficult games - FA Cup outplayed , PL missed our chances
vs Everton - Was the Shambles
Man United were is a no win situation with OGS. If he wasnt hired just imagine if the new manager gets off to a bad start the fans would turn instantly.
People need to stop being knee jerk all the time.
This team would get turned over by most of the top 10. What has happened to our standards?
MCTominay and Fred held PSG midfield. Also, with Pogba in a free role, this would make Fred play in his best position, which is the left side of the midfield. Also, Pogba's laziness would have a minimum effect on the team.
The 3-man defence of Darmain, Smalling and Lindelof actually looked solid in the first half and for the better part of the second half against City, except for the 2nd goal which was due to the misunderstanding among the defenders.
Greenwood is more clinical than Lingard. O'Connor can't do worse than Young and he's actually good in the defensive department.
I would rather we have better qualities than these on the pitch but what can we do? We have to make do with what we have.
I love how he's still in a Liverpool blazer
The issue is that he has no experience if signing the quality players you need to bring in.....or selling them for that matter. He needs someone alongside him who can assist with the huge transactions he going to have to partake in.
Transfer aside he also has the volatility of some pre-maddonas in the squad. How on earth is he going to deal with keeping those players on side and keeping the dressing room in shape.
He was a good temp, but it was a huge mistake to give him the job full time based on a honeymoon period. That said, I didn't hear many fans complaining at the time.
TBH you could have SAF, Sir Bobby Robson, Bryan Clough and Houdini in charge right now, and they still wouldnt be able to make these players perform like a top 4 side. The only thing that will make that happen is new players.
Transfer aside he also has the volatility of some pre-maddonas in the squad. How on earth is he going to deal with keeping those players on side and keeping the dressing room in shape.
He was a good temp, but it was a huge mistake to give him the job full time based on a honeymoon period. That said, I didn't hear many fans complaining at the time.
TBH you could have SAF, Sir Bobby Robson, Bryan Clough and Houdini in charge right now, and they still wouldnt be able to make these players perform like a top 4 side. The only thing that will make that happen is new players.
He needs time, there are signs he knows what he's doing. I thought the tactics were good against City and we really got at them and even sustained some attacking periods in the first half. Anyone remember last time we played them under Jose? It was absolutely abysmal!
We basically blamed results on the last three managers:
Moyes: 7th, not good enough (although tbf, he did take over a PL winner)
LvG: brought in the mercenaries, finished 4th and 5th, FA Cup; not good enough
Mourinho: more mercenaries, 6th, League Cup, Europa, 2nd, 10th when sacked; not good enough
Rinse repeat.
Stop buying castoffs from big clubs, paying top transfer fees and wages. Buy young players from smaller clubs, give them a chance to shine. Back your manager. That’s the Man United Way.
Moyes: 7th, not good enough (although tbf, he did take over a PL winner)
LvG: brought in the mercenaries, finished 4th and 5th, FA Cup; not good enough
Mourinho: more mercenaries, 6th, League Cup, Europa, 2nd, 10th when sacked; not good enough
Rinse repeat.
Stop buying castoffs from big clubs, paying top transfer fees and wages. Buy young players from smaller clubs, give them a chance to shine. Back your manager. That’s the Man United Way.
We have been truly appaling at home under Ole and not just lately. Don't know the numbers but I'd wager the record is abysmal. One thing he needs to improve on is that. The second is his record against the big teams.
Deserves the window and next season.
Deserves the window and next season.
I honestly don't understand the rush to panic here. It has already been pointed out that most of the 7 losses were hardly surprising given the opposition. The Everton game aside we were simply outclassed and I do include Wolves there because although we may have a more expensive squad they have their stars and are two years into a project where every signing has been made with a purpose and their manager has given the team a clear identity.
The remainder of this season was always a free hit for Ole, he has squad players and so called superstars who need minutes for him to judge them and so rotation is essential and the same is true of all the tactical changes, looking to see what his players can do when given different responsibilities. We could make top 4 by winning the last 3 games and whilst that would be a nice bonus I would rather Ole keep experimenting to the end of the season if he and the coaching staff are getting valuable information about the players and getting some good game film to analyze when the squad head off for the summer break.
I expect significant changes, there has been some concern that we will only sign a couple of players but I think the reality is that Ole does not want to say I am going to clear out most of this fecking deadwood in the summer when we still have games to play. Ole has the job and deserves our support at least until he has had an opportunity to put his own stamp on the team which at a bare minimum should include a full pre-season and a couple of transfer windows. My expectation would be that we address the glaring needs in our squad with young, quality players with the right mentality/work ethic and that once the competitive games begin next season there is a recognizable pattern of play and something resembling a settled first XI that is playing modern football with the positive attitude United demand. I don't even care if we wind up finishing 8th or 9th next year if there is a clear identity that we can see leading to success with another year or two of smart signings and development of the understanding between the players.
If we make a knee jerk decision to bin Ole now we have no guarantees it will lead to anything better. We can't say he is not good enough because he has had no opportunity to tackle the rebuild we so desperately need and appointing a more experienced manager is no guarantee of success as his 3 immediate predecessors proved. Now if we are a shambles in 12 months time after Ole has had his shot and there is no obvious progress then sure, we thank him for his efforts, tell him we will always love him for what he did as a player but we are going in another direction. The added bonus for those of you who are desperate for this to happen is that he probably takes Woodward down with him in this scenario.
For now, I am going to watch the last 3 games, cheer myself hoarse and then back Ole 100% with whatever he decides to do this summer,
The remainder of this season was always a free hit for Ole, he has squad players and so called superstars who need minutes for him to judge them and so rotation is essential and the same is true of all the tactical changes, looking to see what his players can do when given different responsibilities. We could make top 4 by winning the last 3 games and whilst that would be a nice bonus I would rather Ole keep experimenting to the end of the season if he and the coaching staff are getting valuable information about the players and getting some good game film to analyze when the squad head off for the summer break.
I expect significant changes, there has been some concern that we will only sign a couple of players but I think the reality is that Ole does not want to say I am going to clear out most of this fecking deadwood in the summer when we still have games to play. Ole has the job and deserves our support at least until he has had an opportunity to put his own stamp on the team which at a bare minimum should include a full pre-season and a couple of transfer windows. My expectation would be that we address the glaring needs in our squad with young, quality players with the right mentality/work ethic and that once the competitive games begin next season there is a recognizable pattern of play and something resembling a settled first XI that is playing modern football with the positive attitude United demand. I don't even care if we wind up finishing 8th or 9th next year if there is a clear identity that we can see leading to success with another year or two of smart signings and development of the understanding between the players.
If we make a knee jerk decision to bin Ole now we have no guarantees it will lead to anything better. We can't say he is not good enough because he has had no opportunity to tackle the rebuild we so desperately need and appointing a more experienced manager is no guarantee of success as his 3 immediate predecessors proved. Now if we are a shambles in 12 months time after Ole has had his shot and there is no obvious progress then sure, we thank him for his efforts, tell him we will always love him for what he did as a player but we are going in another direction. The added bonus for those of you who are desperate for this to happen is that he probably takes Woodward down with him in this scenario.
For now, I am going to watch the last 3 games, cheer myself hoarse and then back Ole 100% with whatever he decides to do this summer,
I agree, I've been saying for ages we need to start buying players from lower leagues. There's good players down there at literally half the price! They're more likely to have a better mentality as well
Dele Alli
Vardy
Brooks
Maddison
Kante
Maguire
These are just a few examples of the kinds of players we could be dealing with.
/THREAD
Agreed
We don't even need to take THAT gamble. We could have just signed most them after they proved their adjustment in the Premier League.
Kante
Vardy
Mahrez
We could have just signed the trio after the won the league. Even the season after honestly except for Kante .
Maguire
Robertson
Hull had a decent enough season and again we could have been the club to sign them both .
Brooks
How about now?
So whose left:
Bissaka
Maddison
Brooks
Delofeuo
Dacoure
Anderson
There's a decent list of players in the league that would improve us even if it's just squad depth ...better than some of the options we've got now
I'd be more worried about the player recruitment than manager recruitment
Look at how hard City work.
Do you honestly think Pogba would be a starter there in his current form?
When Roy Keane, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville don't exactly trust Pogba with the future of the club then neither do I, because my eyes also tell me that he isnt contributing enough to be the face of the club. He's the sort of lazy player who will bring you in fans from fifa but won't drive you to league titles.
Look at how hard City work.
Do you honestly think Pogba would be a starter there in his current form?
When Roy Keane, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville don't exactly trust Pogba with the future of the club then neither do I, because my eyes also tell me that he isnt contributing enough to be the face of the club. He's the sort of lazy player who will bring you in fans from fifa but won't drive you to league titles.
Amen, thank you.
Great post - you do need to give the guy time to try and sort the mess out. Whether he is successful or not will not be judged on this season.
Ole should not be judged until he gets a full season under his belt and opportunity to bring in a few signings and overload the dead wood. For now 4th is still possible and remember after United lost 3-1 to Liverpool in December Jose said United would require a miracle to finish 4th
True, but you would save more money buying them from their original clubs.
Brooks is definaltey one we should be keeping tabs on.
I have doubts regarding Solskjaer, and always thought we'd "paint ourselves into a corner" if we let Ole anywhere near the manager's office, even in a provisional capacity, because the clamour would inevitably become too great not to appoint him, with all the Sir Alex & "class of 92" connotations; and of late ( 7 defeats in 9, etc ) my worries seemed warranted, but I thought he did well last night to address some of the tangible problems that seemed to elude him in other games: he got the players to actually put a shift in, especially in the first half, and got some measure of parity where tactics were concerned, and had Lingard not fluffed his lines and DDG not got a very obvious attack of the screaming ab-dabs, we might have gone on to get something out of the game.
What City did when Sane came on, I feel, took much of the responsibility out of the manager's hands because we really don't have the requisite quality, player-wise, or mental tenacity, needed to compete with that type of dynamic play. Ole has made mistakes, and will continue to do so, but with a comprehensive, and, I'm afraid, protracted, overhaul, I feel confident we'll get where we need to be, but we've got to bite on the bitter pill and look at the at the Everton display as the nadir, or "ground-zero" moment, because that was the utter shite performance that should catalyze any self-respecting professional to knuckle down and follow instruction. Well, I say that should be the case, but given the pestiferous nature of our dressingroom and for that matter, our boardroom, who knows what the eventual outcome will be?
What City did when Sane came on, I feel, took much of the responsibility out of the manager's hands because we really don't have the requisite quality, player-wise, or mental tenacity, needed to compete with that type of dynamic play. Ole has made mistakes, and will continue to do so, but with a comprehensive, and, I'm afraid, protracted, overhaul, I feel confident we'll get where we need to be, but we've got to bite on the bitter pill and look at the at the Everton display as the nadir, or "ground-zero" moment, because that was the utter shite performance that should catalyze any self-respecting professional to knuckle down and follow instruction. Well, I say that should be the case, but given the pestiferous nature of our dressingroom and for that matter, our boardroom, who knows what the eventual outcome will be?
Why do people keep hammering on this 7 defeats in 9 games. It was inevitable, considering the way the team looked against any decent sides such as Leicester and Spurs where De gea consistently saved our ass. Most of our wins came against relegation candidates team and that's to tell you how average the squad is. The only good match came up against an inconsistent "strikerless" Chelsea side and Arsenal who was in poor form.
Our squad is full of either deadwoods, lazy or just average players. We were going to return to the level of the squad as soon as we meet a decent team. It was only a matter of time.
We need to give Ole some time to bring in his own players.
I want to address a few things that won’t be popular among some of our fans but first let’s just clarify that I’m in your corner regarding how to handle the situation around Solskjær. Your make many valid points and in a best case scenario the club will handle it like you suggest. Unfortunately logic and common sense doesn’t go hand in hand when we talk about how to manage Manchester United.
Rush and panic. Reminder of the season. Free hit.
A Premier League manager is more or less always under pressure to deliver results. It’s all about expectations. A club like us will never have time on our side regarding results. So we either meet expectations or otherwise the storm is all over us. With that comes rush and panic. If we continue to lose unexpected games the pressure will increase, then it doesn’t matter what’s best long term. Ole Gunnar’s honeymoon is over big time and if we continue to play bad, don’t score goals then the knives will be sharpened.
Ole has our support.
The majority of our fan base probably agrees with you but don’t expect a unanimous support if we continue to lose games. With every loss the support will decrease, people will question his methods, his experience, his character and then it doesn’t matter if he does a good or a bad job. Results is the name of the game.
I desperately wants him to succeed. A Scandinavian manager with a similar background as my self. Growing up in a small place out in the wilderness and starving to be something. Ole is my guy on every level. But. I’m realistic. Without results nothing matter and from my perspective he starts to lose a little bit of his self confidence. His answers isn’t the same any longer, not crystal clear without doubts. I see parts in his communication that makes me a little bit nervous. I hope I’m wrong but he needs to win games quite soon, otherwise this can be ugly.
I mentioned "7 defeats in 9", but I by no means "hammered it". We have, in my opinion, recorded decent results and performances against some top sides, and I'll not adhere blindly to the **** of Solskjaer, but I concur: this squad is largely not up to the task, and a root-and-branch rebuild with Ole in charge, would seem the best way forward even if this takes some time to realise.
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