Why are you focussing on the number of defeats we had, instead of the number of wins we had? Its just spin, the number of losses doesn't matter its points on the board that counts, this "no team has ever finished 4 losing 13 games" is simply not relevant. We had 23 wins and in the last decade (as far as I could be arsed to check) only one team with 23 wins failed to make top four.
Harry Maguire | Signed
- Thread starter davidmichael
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What do you mean? You have been told it buy the board but you aren't absolutely sure that's what you heard or your having a guess but you haven't decided on an actual figure?
The Rio quotes are similar to Van Dijk's move. Most people were talking abotu the price, not the player
I wouldn't buy Maguire either HOWEVER you can't really use De Ligt's transfer as a stick to bash our negotiators with. Its not their fault that he doesn't want to come to OT. What I do criticise the club is of letting United's quality decline so much that we are now forced into this silly situation. Ah and our inability to find a cheaper alternative to Maguire.
That's the thing: you (nor I) have no clue what the budget is and really it doesn't matter becasue the cluv does and they mad a bid with that in mind. OGS wants the player and the club feel he falls within their budget. As long as those 2 things are true the fee is mostly irrelevant.
£70m is a lot to turn down, but I don't know why Utd can't also include a player in the deal (Real and Juve are strongly rumoured to be eager to send a player Utd's way in part for Pogba). Are the likes of Rojo, Jones, Lingard, etc. all so awful that they can't even arouse interest from Leicester? If so, then what are they even doing at the likes of Utd? It's damning stuff really. I would have thought £60m plus Rojo for Maguire would be a lot more palatable to us fans and the club than ~£80m for Maguire alone? I mean, there's still a few exits that need to happen.
More importantly, the player is very different
Yeah i'm not holding out much hope either, but right now i'd take any upgrade over bodger and badger.
I agree with this, with a few exceptions most of the complaints about Rio listed were only due to the price. My biggest complaint is the actual ability of Maguire
He's massively outperformed him for two years. How long does it have to be before we say that he's better? Potential is nice but ultimately means nothing if the performances on the pitch don't improve, and so far Bailly has actually been getting worse each season.
A absolute world class defender like VVD would be great but if we cannot get one then Maquire is next tier down at the least.
Last season we conceded 6 goals more than Leicester (54 and 48), the season before with effectively the same players we conceded about half the goals 28.
So what is the difference? obv De Gea had a big melt down, injuries???? surely there is a decent defensive unit in there without the addition of players, that we have added AWB I think makes a big difference as it will take pressure off the CBs covering AY and he will also provide support for the CBs.
AWB, and either an in form DeGea or different keeper and Maquire added to that surely gets us down closer to the 28 again.
I cannot help but thinking that the midfield is going to be more important, Pogba, Matic and Herera provided no protection to the defense last season, is Longstaff the answer? seems like a big ask.
Last season we conceded 6 goals more than Leicester (54 and 48), the season before with effectively the same players we conceded about half the goals 28.
So what is the difference? obv De Gea had a big melt down, injuries???? surely there is a decent defensive unit in there without the addition of players, that we have added AWB I think makes a big difference as it will take pressure off the CBs covering AY and he will also provide support for the CBs.
AWB, and either an in form DeGea or different keeper and Maquire added to that surely gets us down closer to the 28 again.
I cannot help but thinking that the midfield is going to be more important, Pogba, Matic and Herera provided no protection to the defense last season, is Longstaff the answer? seems like a big ask.
Exactly. The worst part is proceeding to slate the player later when he's been bought and is no longer the new shiny thing. It's human behaviour like you said, but still unreasonable.
I disagree from the games I've watched. Jones has played more matches but has been prone to a lot more errors. he's all heart but players like him hold us back enormously because he keeps getting picked for effort levels alone.
I wasn't really comparing the two as players, just the caf's attitude to transfers.
For example, the very definitive "I'd pay X for him but not X+5m" type posts from posters who don't know how to value footballers and won't care about the extra 5m once the transfer is remotely successful anyway.
Or the "why sign [very good player] when we could just play [average/overhyped young player] instead?" posts.
Also, swap Nesta for De Ligt in a post like "Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! Nesta!! We want Nesta!" and you get a neat summation of a large chunk of this summer's transfer forum.
And on and on. The standard transfer forum tropes have stayed the same over 17 years, which is neat.
The reason Phil looks good defensively sometimes is because he gets the last ditch tackles in.. similar to Bailly, which is the reason they keep getting injuries. A top CB does not need to dive in rather reads the game.. How often did Rio dive in? VVD? they read the game and sense danger better, we need more of that. Do not think Maguire is the answer.
Sanchez was never needed. That was nothing more than us flexing our financial muscle and getting him so City wouldn't. As for Fred, I haven't given up on him yet. Often players in their first year in the EPL struggle. If he doesn't play better this year, then it's time to sell, even if at a loss. With that being said, I think you are massively underrating Maguire. The guy is class and would automatically make our back line stronger, and that goes for any other team in the top 6 as well as he would walk straight into any of their starting 11's too...
Why does it have to be as simple as say Koulibaly or Maguire?
There will be CB's available now that will go for £70m+ in a couple of years, why do we always have to be behind the curve and buying players for an absolute premium +20%?
we dont have a squad thats ready made to compete in any area so why take a different approach at CB? In my opinion this would be such a poor piece of business.
It was actually George Best that said this in his column in the united magazine.... I have no idea why i remember this! but i remember reading the magazine on the bog on a scorching hot day.
Finally someone on the same page as me, summarised my thoughts exactly.
I'm only seeing people defending Maguire and (bizarrely) Phil Jones. We shouldn't sign someone like Maguire just because he is available, Liverpool waited for VVD remember because they knew he was the right man.
Maguire wouldn't get into City, Liverpool, Spurs (unless playing a back 3) or Chelsea's backlines (when Rudiger is fit). Sorry but that's nonsense
So basically nothing concrete about this transfer at all. 
I would agree but who? I do not watch a hell of a lot of football outside of Utd and the odd PL game, so I do not have the widest knowledge to draw on, but on here the only alternative touted is Koulibaly.
Loads of people on here saying no to Maquire but do not offer any alternatives, that are PL ready.
So who are the realistic alternatives that would be PL ready, that would be better than Maquire and cost less or be worth more.... that we can realistically get.
(BTW I do not think Maquire is a realistic target, he will not agitate and Leicester are not motivated to sell, can see this rumbling on and us not signing a CB if I am honest)
SAF said it as well
I would be happy with any of these and I'm sure at least some would be available: Upamecano, Konaté, Romagnoli, Skrinar, Tah, Militao, Milenkovic, Zagadou, Dias
The Leipzig duo, Romagnoli or Sriniar would be my 1st choices as I believe all are already great cbs and I'm confident all will become world class cbs (I would argue Skriniar and Romagnoli already are). The others listed are all very good and young and either slightly better or at a similar level to Maguire with more room to develop. I would expect all would be available for cheaper than Maguire (perhaps Zagadou from Dortmund would be the most difficult to get)
I think the fact that he is available, and starts for England and is overly hyped by the media has got everyone believing he is the answer to our defensive problems. In fact England looked defensively shakey at the Nations League, if you are going to pay £80m for a CB he needs to do the following:-
1. Lead the team
2. Calm the whole team
3. Understand when the team is under pressure and soak pressure
He doesn't do any, and paying £80m for a player who has never played European football is worrying.
VVD at Celtic played in big nights, and Southampton he played in a system of keep ball, cannot compare him.
Actually I think that Stones threads is closer to this one because you have the same type of subject between the price, the player's level and his tools.
And I see that you rated him highly.
1) You have no idea if a lot of these players would be cheaper or more expensive
2) You don't know if they would actually want to come
3) None of these players are clearly better than Maguire
4) You don't know how any of these players would adjust playing in the PL
5) Skriniar and Romagnoli are not considered world class. Maybe on FM but not in real life.
Joachim Andersen, Milenkovic, Ruben Dias, Jonathan Tah, all have great ability, are attainable and will almost certainly improve in the coming 2-3 years.
If necessary though I'd rather sign no one, I just cant accept us spending £80m on 7/10 Harry Maguire and will never be comfortable with it.
And you reckon they would hit the ground running in the PL? that is the risk, if nothing else Maquire is proven in the prem.... do not get me wrong I would be happy with Maquire as I think with AWB our defensive unit is greatly improved, but am not anti any player that we buy that goes straight into the 1st 11, but we do not need more Bailys, or Lindelofs who need time to become great defenders in the prem.
Look at Otamendi everyone wanted him here, was going to be a beast, one of the best defenders in La Liga.... city beat us to him, glad they did, hardly a glowing success there
Ouch. Damn search function.Actually I think that Stones threads is closer to this one because you have the same type of subject between the price, the player's level and his tools.
And I see that you rated him highly.
1) I expect at least some would be cheaper
2) I expect at least some would if offered good wages
3) You could say that about any player when comparing them to anyone, I feel like at least the first 4 I mentioned are clearly better than Maguire
4) Again could say that about anyone, that didn't stop City signing Laporte who is now the 2nd best cb in the league
5) Up for debate, they're certainly considered to be among the best defenders in Serie A which is a league with many very talented defenders
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Andersen just moved to Lyon
Going on 24, so two years younger and miles better.
Wasn't Rio also a good bit younger than Maguire? 22/23?
They arent all given £70 million.
I wasn't even looking for your posts and to be fair rating him at the time was perfectly reasonable, the ones who were calling Sterling shit have no excuse though. But regarding Stones and Maguire, he was coming out of a realitvely poor season like Maguire, neither of them are actually tested, they weren't regularly playing in continental competitions or even in the last stages of national cups. To be perfectly honest, I like Maguire but I want to be cautious when I rate him because the reality is that he isn't tested, by top level standard he is nothing, he has one continental game under his belt.Ouch. Damn search function.
Shaw Lindelof Maguire AWB is a decent back four I'd say.
You could also look at Laporte who has been a massive success for City. People overestimate the importance of being PL proven imo. Also, there have been times where there have been good cb options at lower Prem clubs but I don't believe that is currently the case. It's just a weak position in the Premier League atm imo (with the exception of the top teams). Who are the best outside the top 6 really? Tarkowski, Keane, Maguire, Evans, Boly, Diop, Aké, Schar, Lascelles probably. Personally I wouldn't want any of those at Utd, they all have flaws.
I'd have to disagree with that. Jones obviously does make far too many mistakes, consistently one big one every few games. He'll have the occasional truly bad game, but most of the time they are decent performances that he screws up with that one big mistake. But Bailly over the last two seasons (and even most of his first season other than the first couple of months) has basically been 50/50 with his performances, good half the time and terrible the other half. And on those poor games he tends to make multiple mistakes and throws the entire defensive organisation out the window as the other defenders have no idea what he's going to do next.
If Bailly does actually turn it around, awesome. On his good days he's actually a very impressive defender. I've lost most of my hope for him though, and I think Ole feels the same.
That might be true, but we already have players in Bailly, Lindelof and Tuanzebe who I would argue would look equally as good at those players respective clubs. And as you say they are probably 2-3 years away from adapting to and performing in the PL.
Maguire is ready to slot right in at LCB besides Victor, which is his biggest upside right now for us. He is proven in the PL, that should not be frowned upon especially in the central positions.
You could say the same for Koulibaly or De Ligt because of their sheer quality. The players you list not so much, then I rather stick with what we have for now.
I dont think we will be buying a CB if its not one that is 95% sure to slot right into the team and perform right away. If that is the clubs position I kinda agree with it tbf.
And 70-80m? Maguire is still young for a CB and the English premium will still be there even if he should not make it here. Its not like we are going to lose 80m on him if he does not perform. We might get a ltb less, but it will not be money thrown at the wolves.
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