Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melts edition

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
To be fair, I don't read certain posters' take on Woodward as an attempt to absolve him of any ultimate blame or responsibility.

There's a widespread notion among disgruntled fans that Woodward is a very hands-on sort of devil - or idiot - who keeps meddling, interfering and/or controlling in a way that is detrimental and/or positively incompetent. However, there is very little actual evidence to support this - and some of the things he's supposedly done (himself, personally) are clearly outlandish, such as forcing players on the manager, etc.

I don't think it absolves him of anything, at the end of the day, even if he doesn't negotiate transfers and contracts personally - or acts like a fecked-up DoF because he's power mad, etc. He's ultimately responsible for the money United have spent, and for long term results - and those speak for themselves.
Good post.
Responsibility and accountablity are two different things in my world.
Is Woodward accountable for the strategic decisions the club has taken the last 6 years. Yeah, most def. He is the CEO. Thats where he should and can be criticised; as well as other "powers" at the club can and should be.
But is he himself responsible for the things that media and the Caf puts on him; signing and blocking players, etc. Briefing media himself. There is no evidence for that at all. If anything my impression of Woodward is that he is dead scared of saying anything in public at all.
Which is understandable because of the club´s listing at NYSE. It would be literally criminal for Woodward to say anything that could affect the share price now that we are a plc again. This idea that he is making private briefings to media or whomever is about transfer dealings is not logical. He could get prosecuted if he did.
 

dove

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
7,899
If you go in to a season with the defaistic notion that we will finish below City and Pool then whats the purpose of even supporting a football club? Especially one like United. Wtf is happening with our fanbase?
Huh? We will 100% finish below City and Pool, most likely 6th. Doesn't mean we should stop supporting the club? It's better to be realistic with expectations than being deluded. We are shambles and will be a laughing stock this season yet again, that is our miserable reality right now and as long as this clown Woodward is in charge, nothing will change.
 

jackal&hyde

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
4,220
If we recoup the Maguire fee (or 9/10s of it) in the sale of Lukaku and don’t sign anyone else then our net spend would be Wan-Bissaka and Dan James. We’re talking 70-75mil net for a team that finished 6th and needs to get back into the top 4. Arsenal have spent more ffs.
This is terrible really. We can't expect a total rebuild in one summer but for a club of our stature and with our revenues it's just shameful really. With Herrera and Fellaini gone our midfield is weaker and if Lukaku goes the attack is also weaker. I'm sure management have identified targets but it looks like the money men have let us down. I mean, it took us till nearly the end of the window to get a center back, arguably the most important and needed transfer to be part of preseason.
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
6,117
According to one of the journos from The Athletic, we've been in talks about Eriksen for months. So how the feck have we only just discovered that he's not interested in a move? Sounds like we've naively persisted when every man and his dog already knew he wanted to go to Real. Pure incompetence.
 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
Scout
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
49,927
Location
W.Yorks
According to one of the journos from The Athletic, we've been in talks about Eriksen for months. So how the feck have we only just discovered that he's not interested in a move? Sounds like we've naively persisted when every man and his dog already knew he wanted to go to Real. Pure incompetence.
I never get these "in talks for months" thing... like, how can we be talking to someone/ a club for months?? Surely there can't be THAT much to talk about?

I guess we made an enquiry months ago, then did nothing about it until the last week or something

I'd love to know properly how transfers work... what clubs talk about, why it takes so long etc....
 

TrueRed79

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,899
Yes. I support United. I am not fast-forwarding this season just for the sake of it. I would favor us for the CL as well if it was not for it being theoretically impossible.
So you're saying i don't support the team because im realistic, whereas you have some sort of blind faith that we will overtake two teams that finished on 97pts last season? Makes total sense.
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
Huh? We will 100% finish below City and Pool, most likely 6th. Doesn't mean we should stop supporting the club? It's better to be realistic with expectations than being deluded. We are shambles and will be a laughing stock this season yet again, that is our miserable reality right now and as long as this clown Woodward is in charge, nothing will change.
Disagree, if you even really mean that.
Liverpool is one serious injury away on VvD or Salah (or any of their front three) from fighting for 4th-6th instead of the title. They still lack depth and were darn lucky with injuries last year. City has an aging squad and I dont know if the hunger is there anymore.
I suspect this PL will be closer than it has been for many years and feck it if I am counting us out.
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
So you're saying i don't support the team because im realistic, whereas you have some sort of blind faith that we will overtake two teams that finished on 97pts last season? Makes total sense.
No I dont, didnt. I stated what I think. You can answer for yourself.
 

dove

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
7,899
Disagree, if you even really mean that.
Liverpool is one serious injury away on VvD or Salah (or any of their front three) from fighting for 4th-6th instead of the title. They still lack depth and were darn lucky with injuries last year. City has an aging squad and I dont know if the hunger is there anymore.
I suspect this PL will be closer than it has been for many years and feck it if I am counting us out.
If you say Liverpool are 1 injury away from fighting for 4-6th, then we are 1 injury away as well from fighting for 8th place (Pogba).
 

Cypriot

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
2,757
Location
Manchester, United Kingdom
Disagree, if you even really mean that.
Liverpool is one serious injury away on VvD or Salah (or any of their front three) from fighting for 4th-6th instead of the title. They still lack depth and were darn lucky with injuries last year. City has an aging squad and I dont know if the hunger is there anymore.
I suspect this PL will be closer than it has been for many years and feck it if I am counting us out.
Holy hell, I admire your optimism but there are 5 teams with better squads than us at the moment. Top 4 is not even an option if our spending has ended. No, I'm not psychic - just realistic. We'd have to have several players overperform drastically over the whole season to be in with a shout of finishing in the top 4. The title? You are insane.
 

Thisistheone

Full Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
7,904
I would rather off myself than go into a season when a football has not been even kicked yet thinking we will finish below any of those two trash outfits.
Just worried that if you're not prepated to admit the obvious in that we will finish behind City & Liverpool, will you ever admit the obvious in that the club is being run badly?
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
Just worried that if you're not prepated to admit the obvious in that we will finish behind City & Liverpool, will you ever admit the obvious in that the club is being run badly?
My opinion is that its being run pretty much average. As can be expected I suppose. As long as we are on a 50% wage/turnover ratio I am satisfied with owners/management. Especially since the alternatives are so much worse.
Could the money be spent better? Sure. Is there this big rift towards the competition? Not really IMO.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
31,473
Our club is in big trouble and this man is the main reason (as well as the Glazers)
 

Thisistheone

Full Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
7,904
My opinion is that its being run pretty much average. As can be expected I suppose. As long as we are on a 50% wage/turnover ratio I am satisfied with owners/management. Especially since the alternatives are so much worse.
Could the money be spent better? Sure. Is there this big rift towards the competition? Not really IMO.
Average isn't good enough though. Why accept average? We should be run extremely well.
 

thegregster

Harbinger of new information
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
13,542
So we have had a turnover of 1.2 billion in the last 24 months.

In that time will have had a net spent of 107mil.

It will go down even further if Lukaku is sold.

What great owners we have.
 

Kush

Hyperbolic and will post where they like!!
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
3,441
So we have had a turnover of 1.2 billion in the last 24 months.

In that time will have had a net spent of 107mil.

It will go down even further if Lukaku is sold.

What great owners we have.
There is a genuine possibility of Arsenal outspending us this summer. Yes, Arsenal.

No way can anyone justify it given where we finished last season. All the delusion of Woodward and few gullible fans will shatter once season starts.
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
Average isn't good enough though. Why accept average? We should be run extremely well.
Agree. So propose who will do that then with certainty and I will happily join the #Glazersout train. Until then, I am OK with the devil I know.
 

leet

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
80
Location
Bosnia
Glazers are big problem if they don't really want to spend or if they're that stubborn in keeping Ed in charge.

If this summer isn't proof that club needs some serious changes in transfer department then we're megascrewed.

For all we know Ed is the only responsible guy and he deffo NEEDS to go. Seriously, this is a huge joke, we were linked to 102 players and literally noone came. It even took him weeks to complete Harry, insane...
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
So we have had a turnover of 1.2 billion in the last 24 months.

In that time will have had a net spent of 107mil.

It will go down even further if Lukaku is sold.

What great owners we have.
What great fans we have that thinks "net spent" is a real thing is a another way to look at it.
 

TrueRed79

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,899
It's completely mental that we've not signed any midfielders to help take the load off of Pogba. Have the owners forgot how bad we are at picking up injuries? Ran and owned by absolute cretins. I assume no one has forgot how bad we were at the end of the season. It was the most abysmal since i have supported Utd. A pre-season with the same group won't change anything. Livid.
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
It's completely mental that we've not signed any midfielders to help take the load off of Pogba. Have the owners forgot how bad we are at picking up injuries? Ran and owned by absolute cretins. I assume no one has forgot how bad we were at the end of the season. It was the most abysmal since i have supported Utd. A pre-season with the same group won't change anything. Livid.
It will be disappointing if we will not be replacing Herrera and Fellaini with at least one more experienced DM/CM. Would be my major criticism of this window if that happens.
 

Thisistheone

Full Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
7,904
Agree. So propose who will do that then with certainty and I will happily join the #Glazersout train. Until then, I am OK with the devil I know.
We're stuck with the Glazers so I want the Glazers to do that. Until they do, then we can complain.

It's not dreamland to expect American owners to run our club really well.

Liverpool's owners currently have the European Champions in "soccer" and the World Series champions in Baseball, so they're obviously doing something right.
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
We're stuck with the Glazers so I want the Glazers to do that. Until they do, then we can complain.

It's not dreamland to expect American owners to run our club really well.

Liverpool's owners currently have the European Champions in soccer and the World Series champions in Baseball, so they're obviously doing something right.
Yeah, its funny how FSG is now the elite of football management after being pretty much hated by the scouse until they got "lucky" with Klopp. Not saying that they have not done something right lately, just that its really, really small margins between success and failure.
 

thegregster

Harbinger of new information
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
13,542
What great fans we have that thinks "net spent" is a real thing is a another way to look at it.
I won't mind a low net spent if ticket prices were reduced,we invested in the stadium, we invested in training facilities etc.

We are being left behind off the pitch as well.
 

lsd

The Oracle
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
10,861
I have no problem with us walking away from players only wanting to join us for crazy money and nothing else .

You can only tell what a player is like in this regard once you start negotiating and if they are just there for the money then its wise to say no and reject them .

This is hardly Ed's fault or Ole they are behaving the way they should . If playing for Utd isn't enough then good riddance
 

thegregster

Harbinger of new information
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
13,542
Yeah, its funny how FSG is now the elite of football management after being pretty much hated by the scouse until they got "lucky" with Klopp. Not saying that they have not done something right lately, just that its really, really small margins between success and failure.
FSG put in 130mil for a new stand.

They are going to build another new stand in the near future.

They are currently building a new 50mil training complex.

They put a lot of investment into the club.
 

kouroux

45k posts to finally achieve this tagline
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
96,010
Location
Djibouti (La terre des braves)
I have no problem with us walking away from players only wanting to join us for crazy money and nothing else .

You can only tell what a player is like in this regard once you start negotiating and if they are just there for the money then its wise to say no and reject them .

This is hardly Ed's fault or Ole they are behaving the way they should . If playing for Utd isn't enough then good riddance
I don't have it either, I have a problem with the club leaving it this late to find out that some players want bigger wages
 

NinjaFletch

Full Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
19,818
What makes little sense to me is the utterly inconsistent decision making coming out of the club.

We started the summer wanting young, hungry, players with points to prove who want to play for the club. Fine, I doubt that the likes of James (and Longstaff if it had happened) are enough to fix some of the problems we've got, but I can sort of see the logic of a different approach given 5 years of failure. Sanchez is a big problem, and I can understand the club being hesitant to repeat their mistakes.

We then seemed surprised that English players attract a premium and spent ages haggling with the clubs for the two big money players we have signed before, eventually, just paying what they wanted in the first place, and then interspersed those attempts with two genuinely baffling periods of interest in Dybala and Eriksen who blatantly don't fit the profile of player we'd been looking at and were reluctant to join.

Eriksen in particular makes absolutely no sense. If you weren't talking to him in the months before because you didn't think he wanted to come, why then start working on a deal only to pull out a day later because you don't think he wants to come. It's baffling. I'd be tempted to agree with the suggestion that the club encourages links to big name players to placate the fans ire, if not for the make it makes everyone even angrier when these things don't come off.

And then Herrera. I know some people tried to convince themselves he was average and it wasn't a big deal (he wasn't and it was) but he fought for the shirt every time he stepped out on the pitch and he has the energy and mobility to play in a pressing team. He was perfect for what Ole wants to do, and it's criminal that he (at the very least) has not been replaced.

Herrera's actual leaving makes some sense, perhaps his wage demands were unreasonable, but not when you consider the clubs attempts to keep a want-away De Gea by throwing absolutely insane amounts of money at him, nor the desire to keep Pogba despite his clearly wanting out. If the club's wishes are to sign players who only, desperately want to play for us then it's not one they're applying to players who are already here. If both Pogba and De Gea produce the dogshit they did at the backend of last season then the season is over before it has started. For all the talk of Herrera's demands, he is one of only two outfield players to win our player of the year award since Ferguson left (and I'd argue that Shaw's was relatively undeserved and simply said more about everyone else) and a bumper payday for him would have been less underserved than basically every contract we've given out over the past 6 years.

Especially when you consider the players we did renew. Phil Jones and Juan Mata have absolutely no right still being here (as nice as Mata is, we're not running a charity), both have underperformed for years and both are blocking paths to the first team for the young, hungry players with points to prove that the club is supposed to want to base the new ethos around. Jones is a particularly baffling one given there's no reason why Tuanzebe can't fill in as the sixth choice centre back. If we go slightly longer term, then we also have the insane renewal of Rojo to add in.

Again, though, you can sort of understand that desire to keep bodies around for the sake of squad depth, even if we should have learned our lesson that it's pointless having a deep squad if it's full of shite, until you remember that we're utterly content to feck Lukaku off, not replace him and go into a season with just Martial, Rashford and Greenwood as our options up top.

And maybe it will work out alright. Maybe Solskjaer is a managerial genius who can turn water into wine, and maybe Greenwood, Gomes, Garner and Chong are a Class of 92 redux who are ready to make the step up, and maybe the paper-thin squad in every position other than centre-back will somehow not break down this season (despite us having an injury crisis every year). But, thanks to the incoherent, inconsistent, and downright illogical decision making at this club that's pretty much what needs to happen. Even those players only being good, rather than great, even Solskjaer being pretty decent, even a completely normal amount of injuries are going to be enough to completely kill us.

Once again, we've created a situation for the manager where they can barely win. And once again, if and when it does go tits up, it won't be the man responsible that the goldfish on here will blame.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,186
Location
Canada
I will say it again no manager including your Peps , klopps can work well under this setup. Unless Woodward gives up on footballing decisions and appoints someone who knows football to handle the situation no manager can stamp their mark. Look at Arsenal, for all their flaws, they go and appoint Edu a footballing person and change their setup by hiring new people and they are already clearing the deadwood out and signing players with that limited budget, thats called backing the manager.

Ole is playing with fire here but if he somehow takes this squad and finishes top 4, he surely deserves to be awarded with manager of the year.
 

Thisistheone

Full Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
7,904
Yeah, its funny how FSG is now the elite of football management after being pretty much hated by the scouse until they got "lucky" with Klopp. Not saying that they have not done something right lately, just that its really, really small margins between success and failure.
Hatred can happen when you play the long game and fans can't see the end results. Remember the dire straits Liverpool were in when FSG took over.

Why was picking Klopp luck? Was Rodgers luck? Was signing Salah for £36m also luck? Suarez, Coutinho, Mane, Firmino, Robertson, Allison, Van Dijk? Are they lucky to sell Sakho for £20m, Benteke for £25m, Ings for £20m ...Ibe, Solanke etc? They are either being smarter than us or are on the luckiest run possible. Lets be honest, they're being smarter than us.
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
6,117
I never get these "in talks for months" thing... like, how can we be talking to someone/ a club for months?? Surely there can't be THAT much to talk about?

I guess we made an enquiry months ago, then did nothing about it until the last week or something

I'd love to know properly how transfers work... what clubs talk about, why it takes so long etc....
Like any negotiation, I guess it'll go through phases, from sounding a player out via agents to talking specific contractual details. What I don't understand is how we repeatedly get sucked in for so long and end up wasting so much time on non-starters. It's happened twice in a week with Dybala and now Eriksen. We just never seem to learn.
 

Godfather

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
29,923
Location
Austria
Two years in a row we haven't done enough in the market. We will probably fail to get into the top 4 again. Let's see what happens then.
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
FSG put in 130mil for a new stand.

They are going to build another new stand in the near future.

They are currently building a new 50mil training complex.

They put a lot of investment into the club.
Tbh I know to little about the scousers and FSG to reply to this.
But I would hazard a guess that its the clubs own money they are using to do this. As the Glazers did with the quadrants as well as the modernisation of Carrington. As Levy did with their new stadium = clubs own money plus debt facility.
The reality is that club owners of football clubs dont invest their own money.
That said: I could be wrong about this, because I dont have insight; but I would be surprised if FSG put any of their own money into those projects.
 

marktan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
6,933
Yeah, its funny how FSG is now the elite of football management after being pretty much hated by the scouse until they got "lucky" with Klopp. Not saying that they have not done something right lately, just that its really, really small margins between success and failure.
Not really, Ed appointed Ole as our full time manager - a coach that has no top level experience. That could well implode on us this season.
 

Johan07

Full Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2017
Messages
1,936
Not really, Ed appointed Ole as our full time manager - a coach that has no top level experience. That could well implode on us this season.
It could. Or it can be a damn success, and we win the Double and the Glazers and Woodward are the new FSG for appointing OGS. We will see, I guess. I at least will sit down with a pint on Sunday evening presuming the latter scenario.
 

marktan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
6,933
It could. Or it can be a damn success, and we win the Double and the Glazers and Woodward are the new FSG for appointing OGS. We will see, I guess. I at least will sit down with a pint on Sunday evening presuming the latter scenario.
Hey I'm hoping for the best too :)
Never wanted to be more wrong really, I'm tired of watching us struggle. Just unlikely given the state of our squad Vs our rivals.
 

Mr.Plow

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
595
All the excuses from Ole last season about the players not being good enough and some needing to leave and what do we get? 2 first teamers and a prospect with no departures except our 2nd top goal scorer.

fecking pathetic from that cnut Woodward. Hope the match going fans make his life hell.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
12,557
All the excuses from Ole last season about the players not being good enough and some needing to leave and what do we get? 2 first teamers and a prospect with no departures except our 2nd top goal scorer.

fecking pathetic from that cnut Woodward. Hope the match going fans make his life hell.

The thing is whatever it is, as a fan I do not want United to fail this season. I am hoping for a great season.

But I fear if this happens, Ed will take the credit and not invest next summer.

I cannot take another year of City and Liverpoool dominating.