How frustrating.
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
- Thread starter Adnan
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The likes of Madrid/Barca/PSG already have a plethora of top attackers they have no need for him IMO
If he leaves BVB it'll only be for the PL so Bayern is very unlikely IMO besides us there's only City if Sane leaves and Chelsea to replace Hazard
When a club spends almost a billion in a decade and is still in a transition of course the club can be considered stupid and ridiculous. The glazers represent Manchester United they are the identity of the club. The ability to criticize the current scheme of short fallings doesn't make anyone less of a fan than another. What are you guys toddlers ? You idly stand by defending their regime don't complain when we continue to finish 20+ points behind league leaders each season. Sentimentality and reality are parallel to one another.
Ultimately, it is what it is though. I didn’t defend the Glazers. But they are in charge. Therefore, you either support a United that has the Glazers family in charge, or in your rage, you go away.
All this ‘United are a stupid and ridiculous club’ stuff is more akin to toddler behaviour. Especially as it’s timing is likely largely based on you not getting all the signings you dreamt of. We still have a team to support, if it’s too much for you, try another.
State of our transfer dealings...
So if Sancho has a good season, plenty of teams will be lining to get him. What we can do to beat them - throw money at him. Why we didn't do that with Dybala? Because is not our way..
For what is worth our PR machine is doing great convincing some of our fan base that it's the right approach.
So if Sancho has a good season, plenty of teams will be lining to get him. What we can do to beat them - throw money at him. Why we didn't do that with Dybala? Because is not our way..
For what is worth our PR machine is doing great convincing some of our fan base that it's the right approach.
Just stop with the constant bleating will you!
Let's see what happens this season. If we can get Champions League whilst playing attractive football and promoting young British players then there's every chance he'll join next season.
Let's see what happens this season. If we can get Champions League whilst playing attractive football and promoting young British players then there's every chance he'll join next season.
Just look at the state of the post above yours.
It’s making the place unbearable. The same thing happened last summer. We finished second and then were immediately engulfed with negativity and started the season under huge pressure. This year, a ball hasn’t yet been kicked but for some reason we feel like we have already failed.
Can we at least stop moaning until things actually fall apart?
It’s not even pragmatic, it’s just nonsensical moaning. At worst we are giving our incredibly talented youngsters game time. These are the same youngsters this place was bitching about not being given a opportunity. Ole has already been labelled a talentless, Woodward lapdog, and the season hasn’t even begun yet. It’s incredible.
So people recognising last window the potential for a mess turned out not to be nonsense. Or are you somehow saying that negativity on here affected how Fred and Matic played.
Sancho won’t be coming here next year, is that the end of the world? No because let’s be honest next year we are going to need more rebuilding as Pogba goes.
Not everyone has to have blind optimism to support United. Like you said I guess we will get to see some youngsters playing though probably not as much as people think
Totally agree. It's too easy to be negative these days, and as is the case with any online platform the Caf becomes an echo chamber that amplifies the loudest voices and perpetuates narratives whether they are true or not. Look at this summer: Ole wanting to bring in young and hungry players turned into "Oh but so and so player isn't young and British so we won't even look at him;" we got at least 2 months of the "Dan James, great pace, bad final delivery: he's going to make a great right back for us for the next ten years!" joke repeated ad nauseum; people spent all of the last two seasons complaining about not giving youth a chance, but are now moaning about us not bringing in players and rolling the dice by relying on youth; the list goes on.
That's not to say that everything is sunshine and rainbows at United, but being unable to express anything other than a constant stream of negativity is unbearably toxic, and that toxicity then builds on itself. I'm glad there are others that feel the same way. I feel like every time someone tries to call out the negativity, the masses jump down their throat and ask them why they can't see how shite our club is. I had to take a break from reading the Caf this summer, it's crazy.
The whining in this thread constantly going on about “all Europe will be in for him” has been a pet peeve of mine for about a year now and I’ve constantly explained why that fear is misplaced at best. People talk about “being in for him” as if his preferences don’t matter and as if those clubs don’t have right wingers and have the financial willingness to spend on one player that we do. Let’s take it club by club.
PSG: Do you really think Sancho, a guy who has demonstrated that he constantly wants to prove himself at the highest levels, who set the tone for young English talents to leave England and go to Germany, and who has shown us that money isn’t the only thing that matters to him, will go to Paris?
Bayern: Does it seem likely that someone who has already proven himself in Germany, and who has all but already said he wants to come back home to the PL, would want to go and spend another chunk of his career in Germany? Why? To win a couple of Bundesligas?
Juventus: Can’t afford him and is in a league that is definitely not better than the Bundesliga. Arguably worse.
Barca: Can’t afford him, and even if they could, Messi wants Neymar back.
Real: Possible.
Liverpool: Mane/Salah, and won’t spend ~120m on one player.
Spurs: Can’t afford him.
Arsenal: Can’t afford him.
City: Indications from both sides (Pep quotes last season particularly) that a reunion wouldn’t happen. Also would look bad on an organisation such as City who care massively about their image and spend a lot of money on enhancing their public perception that they would be willing to take back a player who left them (regardless of the true circumstances in which he left).
Chelsea: Possible, as he’s a fan and a London boy but they’re trying to keep CHO happy and have just bought Pulisic. Also, the last few years have indicated that they aren’t willing to invest the sums that they used to, and so that would obviously be an issue if they have to pay that much for one player.
I’m not saying we are definitely getting him. But if we get top 4 I could only see our genuine competition being Real and possibly Chelsea. Given the fact that we have been talking to him (he seems to be open to the idea) and laying the groundwork this early, and that we’d no doubt be willing to spend the required amount of money on him on top of the fact we have no right wing, we definitely stand a way better chance of getting him than the moaners in here would have you believe.
PSG: Do you really think Sancho, a guy who has demonstrated that he constantly wants to prove himself at the highest levels, who set the tone for young English talents to leave England and go to Germany, and who has shown us that money isn’t the only thing that matters to him, will go to Paris?
Bayern: Does it seem likely that someone who has already proven himself in Germany, and who has all but already said he wants to come back home to the PL, would want to go and spend another chunk of his career in Germany? Why? To win a couple of Bundesligas?
Juventus: Can’t afford him and is in a league that is definitely not better than the Bundesliga. Arguably worse.
Barca: Can’t afford him, and even if they could, Messi wants Neymar back.
Real: Possible.
Liverpool: Mane/Salah, and won’t spend ~120m on one player.
Spurs: Can’t afford him.
Arsenal: Can’t afford him.
City: Indications from both sides (Pep quotes last season particularly) that a reunion wouldn’t happen. Also would look bad on an organisation such as City who care massively about their image and spend a lot of money on enhancing their public perception that they would be willing to take back a player who left them (regardless of the true circumstances in which he left).
Chelsea: Possible, as he’s a fan and a London boy but they’re trying to keep CHO happy and have just bought Pulisic. Also, the last few years have indicated that they aren’t willing to invest the sums that they used to, and so that would obviously be an issue if they have to pay that much for one player.
I’m not saying we are definitely getting him. But if we get top 4 I could only see our genuine competition being Real and possibly Chelsea. Given the fact that we have been talking to him (he seems to be open to the idea) and laying the groundwork this early, and that we’d no doubt be willing to spend the required amount of money on him on top of the fact we have no right wing, we definitely stand a way better chance of getting him than the moaners in here would have you believe.
There's a difference between supporting the team and complaining about the higher ups on RedCafe. I'll never have an appreciation for Woodward, but I'll be there every weekend singing away. What's up with that? Or are you backtracking on your earlier comment about not 'watching the soap on the internet' (re Sancho) by saying that the 'soap on the internet' actually does reach the players? Make your mind up.
I’m saying that what happens in the pitch is more important than the soap opera off of it. The football hasn’t even started and some are self-combusting.
Half of the Woodward hate on here is absolute bollocks, baseless and contradictory anyway, and the bottom line is fans just want us to ‘sign all the players’ and ‘win all the trophies’. That’s fair enough, but you would have thought that fans who have grown up through an unrivalled amount of success could possible bear to look at their club if they don’t win a major trophy for a few years. And again, if they can’t, then don’t.
As for your Sancho and soap opera comment, I don’t even get what your point is. Mine was simple. You had declared the ‘final nail in the coffin’ for signing Sancho, which is ridiculous as the football hasn’t started! Apparently because we didn’t sign everyone, we have no chance to get him. I said that of greater importance to him will be how the actual football team does, rather than the storyline being perpetuated on the internet be the tabloid disciples.
Also, why do you go every week and sing and cheer? Judging by the way you seemingly can’t stand anything about the club from who wears the shirts to who wears the suits - it isn’t mandatory, don’t come if they make you so unhappy.
Exactly my thoughts. Redcafe has been a constant tab on my browser for more than a decade, but the last couple of days has made me start to actually think to just stoping visiting caf now like I've done with other social media in the last couple of years.
Your showing how inept you are at being able to comprehend a post, my complaint is towards the hierarchy of this club, the directives, the strategic management hence why I mentioned the investment over a 10 year period as opposed to investment of specific transfer windows that is what being objective is. For a so called "master of hindsight" you fall significantly short in this area. If you adopt some "common sense" in your tagline you would understand that Solskjaer is not a world class manager, it's the transfer windows that will determine a massive amount of his success at this club. Mitten made a fantastic point that the relativity of Solskjaer's long term aspirations at this club largely depends on short term successes. The two go hand in hand.
Im getting so bored of fans calling out other fans simply because they have an indifference of opinions. What you fail to realise is everyone has the same common goal and that's for the club to succeed. The only difference with fans is the ethics between what's deemed acceptable in failure and what's not. If you've got bird sh1t on your car window do you drive around and wait for external factors such as weather conditions to consequently solve your problem ? That to me is the conceptualisation of optimistic expectation however I wouldn't say that an optimistic fan is of more value than a pessimist it's just a difference in ethics. Your almost saying if your not optimistic your not worthy of supporting a club. That is a sphere of dictatorship governed by shortsightedness and ignorance.
He is but I think he will be mainly be deployed as wide forward position over the next few years until he is ready physically
Of course it's on the pitch that matters, but do you think Burnley fans tell each other to stop talking about finishing mid table because they could actually win the league? The same applies to us. Based on what we saw last season, in addition to the ins, or lack of, and outs this summer, isn't it reasonable that people are concerned about the season ahead?
I think people would be more willing to accept our fate if a) the Glazers hadn't rinsed us for hundreds of millions, b) Woodward came across like he even has a plan, c) Woodward stopped lying (DoF etc), d) we didn't have the biggest wage bill in England and achieve 6th place....i could go on. Everyone can see that we are poorly run. It's no longer guess work, the proof is there.
Re the Sancho comment. One minute you're saying Sancho won't care about what is said online, then the next you're telling people to stop complaining online because it'll affect the players. Just seemed a bit of a contradiction in a way.
And the last part doesn't even deserve an answer. I support the club. Not the Glazers, or Woodward. I get behind the players every week. I have an opinion on their abilities, but who doesn't? I care so much about United that i can't bite my lip and watch things unfold that i think are wrong. It's not just transfers because we had some boring windows under Fergie. It's the whole issue about the running of the club.
Perhaps some aren't as opinionated or as passionate about United as i and others are and are happy to sit by and watch us struggle because, at the end of the day, they can just carry on with their lives and actually don't care as much as others.
Even Sancho would be perfect. It's going to be difficult to sign him.
Who would be your 2nd choice?
Who would be your 2nd choice?
Nothing wrong with commenting. Would make sense to comment on the football is all, which hasn’t started. Yet according to the internet, we are already 3-0 down.
Regarding the rest of the club, I can’t argue with the anti-Glazer sentiment. I do have issue with the anti-Woodward one, not even because I think he’s amazing necessarily, but more because I think most complainers haven’t a clue what trey are talking about. It often seems akin to teenage emotions personally. In your grievances, you mentioned he needs to ‘stop lying’ to the fans regarding a DoF. I mean, that sounds like a strop to me. Sounds like a ‘we want what we want now’ thing. I mean, why would Woodward be ‘lying’? Probably because ‘he loves all the power’ or something. This is what we are dealing with. Nobody brought this DoF discussion up at United before Woodward himself. It is reported to be a module he wants, and was mentioned way back with Andre Berta initially. Jose reportedly didn’t want one, and as soon as he was sacked, the same issue came up immediately that we were looking for one. This was not following a fan demand, this came from the club first. How you have concluded he is ‘lying’ I am not sure. It isn’t mandatory, we needn’t have said anything.
I also don’t agree that we are ‘poorly run’ necessarily either, but don’t want to write a whole thesis on that now.
As for Sancho, I can’t deduce how ‘this summer’ has ‘put the nail in the coffin’. It is yet to be seen how good a football team we will be, which will be of bigger concern to him than whether Redcafe fans are moaning. As it stands, if someone who isn’t invested, or a journalist, looks at things objectively - we’ve done nothing wrong this summer! Yet the story is the same. At least let the football start. And the reasons I gave above for people not fecking whining had nothing to do with how the players perceived it. It was a simple opinion of me finding the relentless whining annoying. There isn’t even a football match to complain about. So it can only be transfers. We ‘failed to get Bruno’ (just like every other top club failed to get this amazing player the moaners have never even seen, whose club was desperate to sell).
As for the last part, you should be biting your lip at the very least until the team falls apart. We haven’t started yet, yet the obituaries have begun. We had boring windows under Fergie, but the difference is we ‘won all the trophies’. Nobody really knew or cared of the detail of ‘how the club was run’ under Fergie - everyone just has an opinion on every corner of the club when the football team doesn’t win.
Speaking of structure, what specifically from the structure under Sir Alex do you think we need to go back to now, to become a ‘well run club’ again?
Money saved this window, and United will pay 200 for him in January.
Please daddy
Add to that, Chelsea is likely NOT to be top 4, and a United team playing in Champion’s League might be more attractive. Certainly it’s not unreasonable to hope at least.
Do it consistently and get better? He's barely putting out Kagawa stats or even Miki so let's see him do it consistently before we fall at his feet.
Bear in mind that outside of the top 2 or 3 clubs German football is quite shallow and not massively competitive.
I agree about consistency. However to mention Messi Ronaldo levels is silly as their level far exceeds a great player
With regards to league competitiveness should we then disregard teams from la liga
Hell be the 2020 target.
Sancho, a left back and another midfielder.
Sancho, a left back and another midfielder.
£££ and assuming we get top 4.
I'm convinced that getting a proper right winger in, ideally Sancho, will see Martial poach a lot more tap-ins like the one we saw yesterday.
That's the main reason he doesn't deliver the sort of goals tally we would expect for a player of his talent.
Fingers crossed for next summer but whoever signs Sancho will be wanting to do it before the Euros, else his price tag may rise even further. I fully expect him to tear it up.
That's the main reason he doesn't deliver the sort of goals tally we would expect for a player of his talent.
Fingers crossed for next summer but whoever signs Sancho will be wanting to do it before the Euros, else his price tag may rise even further. I fully expect him to tear it up.
He got 26 goals and assist in the BL last year in 2464 minutes so a goal or assist every 97 minutes.
Kagawa's best was 21 goals and assists in 2423 minutes so a goal or assist every 115 minutes.
Mkhitaryan's best was 26 goals and assists in 2578 so a goal or assist every 99 minutes.
It's pretty impressive for a 18 - 19 year old, especially given that those were the two absolute best seasons of Kagawa and Mkhitaryan.
I don't think that Sancho suffers from the psychological frailties of those players either.
Sancho and midfielders yes, a LB no. We'll likely promote Williams if he keeps up his fine form for the u23s.
Anyone think we could survive without Pogba if we brought this lad in? I look at the likes of Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea last season with Hazard and none play with a creative CM like Pogba but tend to do ok because they have creative attacking players. Something like this for example
-------------De Gea-------------
AWB---Lindelof---Maguire---Shaw
----McTominay----SMS----
Sancho------Lingard------Rashford
-------------Martial-------------
-------------De Gea-------------
AWB---Lindelof---Maguire---Shaw
----McTominay----SMS----
Sancho------Lingard------Rashford
-------------Martial-------------
Pogba is a tricky one, as shown yesterday he can produce moments of top class that change the game but he also gives the ball away countless times. Getting in Sancho would make us significantly stronger and more creative. As long as we replaced Pogba with someone whos got top technical ability and a high passing range then we'd do ok without him.
PP should not play as a part of a midfield duo. Either as a CAM or attacking LCM together with two midfielders with the ability on the ball and can actually play out of defense.
If we can get Sancho and two midfielders that are good on the ball(Not Rice and Longstaff) then we should be able to compete with Tottenham for the third spot and be safe for a top 4 finish.
All this hinges on us getting CL qual.
He'll probably cost 100 billion sterling by next summer seeing as by then the pound will be on par with the Yen, so we may as well forget it.
We will probably buy him for a world.record fee this summer.
Assuming we qualify for the champions league
Assuming we qualify for the champions league
Not without a much better CAM no. Lingard isn't creative enough by himself.
We're playing with 2 strikers in Martial/Rashford who aren't really creators, you need 2 creators to keep the balance.
Sancho + Maddison would be perfect.
Agreed. I'm quietly confident about finishing in the Top 4 this season.
That'd be a big nice feck you to Greenwood and Gomes.
He would cost an absolute feck tonne, and his wages would need to be Pogba level I'd think. He'll have the world's best clubs forming a queue.
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