Kashmir

Whole J and K acceded. 1965 Pakistan attacked India and broke the UN resolutions. So stop bringing a same old arguments like a child who can not get his own way.

The conditions of the accession was that if the population ever wanted to leave they would be allowed too. The article 370 was agreed as part of the accession as well. Instead hindus started killing muslims to change the demographics at which time the tribesmen attacked.
 
It is sad how this whole thread have come to religion and the whole idea coming from couple of Pakistani posters that India somehow hates Muslims is as absurd as it gets. Do they even realise many indians regard Abdul Kalam as their greatest president. On of our greatest musician is a hindu turned muslim A. R Rahman, one of our greatest and loved singer is Mohammad Rafi, most of the popular bollywood stars are muslim and they are loved by most of the indians. I can go on and on.

Saying the Indian Govt took a wrong step is one thing but accusing India as a terrorist country and saying people if India are racist and have hatred towards Muslim or any other religion is just bs and just shows how some people have a shallow mind.
It's definitely an idea from a couple Pakistani poster

https://ru.reuters.com/article/indiaTopNews/idUKKCN0WC2WR

https://time.com/5617161/india-religious-hate-crimes-modi/

Those are just two examples btw, you can find many many other examples.
 
This is like the surgical strike thread again where you read half a quote and go off on a tangent. I will stop replying until you learn to read the full thing in context.

fecking hell, one more thread with so many moronic posts. Must be a new record.
 
In Kashmir, India has rigged elections, its army has used AFSPA as a tool to torture and harass kashmiris.

The Pakistani deep state (army and intelligence) has directly orchestrated terrorist activities for decades, with no care for the kashmiri people. The agenda has always been to cause instability and take revenge for the war in 1971 i.e. liberation of east pakistan (now bangaldesh).

Kashmiri muslims have suffered a lot under AFSPA and no human should be subjected to living under the conditions they find themselves in. However, their hands are not entirely clean either as some kashmiri muslims are responsible for ethnic cleansing, treating kashmiri hindus as representatives of the indian state , raping and killing them, while many others were silent bystanders leading to displacement of more than 300,000 kashmiri hindus.

My two cents -

1. Indians must not turn a blind eye to the suffering of kashmiri muslims otherwise the cycle of violence will continue. Show them support instead of making them feel ostracized.

2. Indians must be vigilant that the tools our government is using to subjugate kashmiris could erode the fabric of democracy in our country and some day these tools might be used against us to bully and shut down dissent.

3. The fact of the matter is that the Indian state looks at Kashmir as a piece of land thats strategically and militarily so important that it can never afford to lose it. Therefore, there is absolutely 0 chance of India ever giving kashmir independence. Kashmiris must accept this. They would be wise to stop protesting and negotiate with the indian state such that normal life resumes, AFSPA is removed, the state is developed, jobs are created and kashmiri hindus return to the state. This of course will take a long time but this is a start.
 
So is the rosy all is well, economic development picture you are painting.

No, the economic development is a future expectation. The links to Hitler/Nazism are exaggerated misrepresentations of current reality.

I don't expect the Indian army to leave there anytime soon, which for obvious reasons causes a lot of tension there. Resistance normally happens in these conditions.

Well, the Indian army has been there for a long time. Nothing has changed except in numbers. I expect the numbers to come down to pre-change conditions soon. But yeah, it'd take many years to even envisage a military free zone.
 
So why are you against a referendum? (same question I keep asking and you can't reply)

They choose their own govt, their is referendum on their own govt in Indian union.

This is why pakis are kicked out of every forum on Kashmir when they harp on the same redundant resolutions which No Pakistani has ever read in the first place:lol:.

Pakistan has to demilitarise POK and I dia has to take over whole of the region. These steps were sequential and bounding.

So don't come out on your crap arguments spreading cancer in the thread again and again.
 
It is sad how this whole thread have come to religion and the whole idea coming from couple of Pakistani posters that India somehow hates Muslims is as absurd as it gets. Do they even realise many indians regard Abdul Kalam as their greatest president. On of our greatest musician is a hindu turned muslim A. R Rahman, one of our greatest and loved singer is Mohammad Rafi, most of the popular bollywood stars are muslim and they are loved by most of the indians. I can go on and on.

Saying the Indian Govt took a wrong step is one thing but accusing India as a terrorist country and saying people if India are racist and have hatred towards Muslim or any other religion is just bs and just shows how some people have a shallow mind.
Not saying all Indians hate Muslims but there's clearly an anti Muslim sentiment ongoing there, it's in the news constantly. You should also read @Ekkie Thump last post in this thread which has some interesting quotes/statistics regarding this topic.

Just because some celebs happen to be Muslims doesn't mean there isn't any issue, it's like saying because Americans love LeBron and Denzel there isn't any prejudice against black people in America. Its nonsense.
 

Thanks. It's better to not post when you don't know much about it rather than posting nonsense. So I keep away from these discussions. Wish more people do that.

Might be time to buy some land in Kashmir now. Might get rich someday.

:lol: Hopefully Ban for calling lot of Indians racists too based on 3-4 posters.

:lol: fecking hell late entry but worth the wait.

Hindu thinking Hindusim is superior is racist :lol:

Yeah that's what I said. It's like competition, posting dumb comments.

That point was stupid, nothing to do with Modi.

:lol: Good that you don't read your pathetic posts.

It's not surprising when you see who is posting that nonsense.

fecking hell, one more thread with so many moronic posts. Must be a new record.

@Damien @Raoul @golden_blunder can you guys thread ban roonster from this thread? He has no idea about the issue as shown by his second post and is just taking the thread off topic again and again, by engaging in personal attacks.
 
There's a supposedly investor summit there at 12-14th October now. Ambani has promised investment in that area. I hope it gets economic prosperity. The potential is huge
 
In Kashmir, India has rigged elections, its army has used AFSPA as a tool to torture and harass kashmiris.

The Pakistani deep state (army and intelligence) has directly orchestrated terrorist activities for decades, with no care for the kashmiri people. The agenda has always been to cause instability and take revenge for the war in 1971 i.e. liberation of east pakistan (now bangaldesh).

Kashmiri muslims have suffered a lot under AFSPA and no human should be subjected to living under the conditions they find themselves in. However, their hands are not entirely clean either as some kashmiri muslims are responsible for ethnic cleansing, treating kashmiri hindus as representatives of the indian state , raping and killing them, while many others were silent bystanders leading to displacement of more than 300,000 kashmiri hindus.

My two cents -

1. Indians must not turn a blind eye to the suffering of kashmiri muslims otherwise the cycle of violence will continue. Show them support instead of making them feel ostracized.

2. Indians must be vigilant that the tools our government is using to subjugate kashmiris could erode the fabric of democracy in our country and some day these tools might be used against us to bully and shut down dissent.

3. The fact of the matter is that the Indian state looks at Kashmir as a piece of land thats strategically and militarily so important that it can never afford to lose it. Therefore, there is absolutely 0 chance of India ever giving kashmir independence. Kashmiris must accept this. They would be wise to stop protesting and negotiate with the indian state such that normal life resumes, AFSPA is removed, the state is developed, jobs are created and kashmiri hindus return to the state. This of course will take a long time but this is a start.

I agree with most of this but the neighboring country also believes the same. As a result there can never really be peace and stability when the two are tussling over it and it goes back to my point: a referendum or mediation of some sort. World powers should get involved and finalize a border no matter what the result
 
The conditions of the accession was that if the population ever wanted to leave they would be allowed too. The article 370 was agreed as part of the accession as well. Instead hindus started killing muslims to change the demographics at which time the tribesmen attacked.
:lol:

The hypocrisy stands exposed., this is why Pakistan has zero credibility in the world.
 
They choose their own govt, their is referendum on their own govt in Indian union.

This is why pakis are kicked out of every forum on Kashmir when they harp on the same redundant resolutions which No Pakistani has ever read in the first place:lol:.

Pakistan has to demilitarise POK and I dia has to take over whole of the region. These steps were sequential and bounding.

So don't come out on your crap arguments spreading cancer in the thread again and again.

Modi suspended kashmirs assembly so no, they do not have their own government.
 
So why are you against a referendum? (same question I keep asking and you can't reply)
If Pakistan stops needling the Kashmiris, I'd welcome a referendum. You forget that Kashmir was peaceful till 1990 till Pakistan started pushing the jihadis freed from Afghanistan in. The insurgency is 30 years old not 70 years old. Dismantle the terrorist camps, rehabilitate to the Kashmiri pandits that were ethnically cleansed and you'll find people a lot more amenable to the concept of a referendum. In fact if Pakistan hadn't repeatedly violated the provisions of the UN resolutions then we'd already have had a referendum there.
 
At least I didn't make dumb conclusion that a nation is racist based on few dumb posts.
Yes I base my opinion on posts on the caf :lol:, and I called the indian nation racist too, talk about exaggerating to fit your agenda. :lol:
Bravo on another insult btw, I'm glad the mod never say anything about that.
 
If Pakistan stops needling the Kashmiris, I'd welcome a referendum. You forget that Kashmir was peaceful till 1990 till Pakistan started pushing the jihadis freed from Afghanistan in. The insurgency is 30 years old not 70 years old. Dismantle the terrorist camps, rehabilitate to the Kashmiri pandits that were ethnically cleansed and you'll find people a lot more amenable to the concept of a referendum. In fact if Pakistan hadn't repeatedly violated the provisions of the UN resolutions then we'd already have had a referendum there.

Another clueless post. In fact you shot yourself in the foot here because everyone knows ZAB was behind some of the insurgents in the 60's.

Also, there was a war in '48 that determined the current borders. I'll repeat -- open a history book and read regular news sources.
 
@Damien @Raoul @golden_blunder can you guys thread ban roonster from this thread? He has no idea about the issue as shown by his second post and is just taking the thread off topic again and again, by engaging in personal attacks.

Personal attacks? Go ahead point them out. Saying "point is stupid" is not personal attack.
 
Yes I base my opinion on posts on the caf :lol:, and I called the indian nation racist too, talk about exaggerating to fit your agenda. :lol:
Bravo on another insult btw, I'm glad the mod never say anything about that.

So calling post is dumb is insult/personal insult, but calling lot of Indians are racist is a point well made. :lol:
 
:lol: Suggest you to come informed. UT has legislature.

Since there’s no legislative assembly in Jammu and Kashmir, the Modi government and Minister of Home Affairs Amit Shah cleverly used Article 367 to make the argument that any changes to the status of the state could be considered legitmate under presidential decree.

The legislative assembly was suspended by modi and every political leader of kashmir has been put under arrest.
 
I dont think thats a reasonable expectation. India will never allow that to happen, neither will pakistan. An independent state will anyway be independent in only in name. China India and Pakistan will fight for influence. So it doesnt make sense. The integration into India is the best and most realisitic chance for peace in Indian Kashmir.

You can't just draw boundaries like that without sever impact. That integration will never happen as long as countries have a dispute and for that reason there needs to be a world level intervention.
 
I agree with most of this but the neighboring country also believes the same. As a result there can never really be peace and stability when the two are tussling over it and it goes back to my point: a referendum or mediation of some sort. World powers should get involved and finalize a border no matter what the result
referendum is no longer possible. But the only logical conclusion to this is that India keeps their part and Pakistan theirs. This has almost happened a few times under manmohan singh and vajpaye before some terrorist attack happened in india and talks regarding this shut down.
 
referendum is no longer possible. But the only logical conclusion to this is that India keeps their part and Pakistan theirs. This has almost happened a few times under manmohan singh and vajpaye before some terrorist attack happened in india and talks regarding this shut down.

Whatever it is, they should mark permanent boundaries even if it means keeping the current ones.
 
I wish some Kashmiri was here to give us his thoughts.
fecking Ultra-Nationalist from both sides have ruined this thread.
 
However the general global reaction has said nothing about the decision but the way it has been handled which I think is correct. I don't think normal people communication services should've been cut off. The anxiety would be too much.

This is another mystifying thing for me.

Modi and Shah are not fools that they decided to cut off all communication on a whim. If people support the amendment, they should take the basic next step to support the very necessary security steps that came with it.

"I'm in favour of the PM praising Mahmud of Ghazni from inside Somnath temple, but I don't like that there was a curfew imposed when he did it."
 
I wish some Kashmiri was here to give us his thoughts.
fecking Ultra-Nationalist from both sides have ruined this thread.
I'm a kashmiri hindu. But i havent lived in kashmir as my family was displaced. I dont think i can represent what the common kashmiri feels. But i do know that most kashmiri hinuds are celebrating this like its the best thing ever. Im going to wait and watch.
 
Another clueless post. In fact you shot yourself in the foot here because everyone knows ZAB was behind some of the insurgents in the 60's.

Also, there was a war in '48 that determined the current borders. I'll repeat -- open a history book and read regular news sources.
Are you disputing that the 1990 wave of Kashmir insurgency was precipitated by the newly freed mujahideen from Afghanistan which the ISI pushed into India? You continue living in your own little fantasy land, where India is the big bad wolf and Pakistan are the innocent lambs. Most Indians have agreed that the current govts actions were heavy handed, and hope that the restrictions on the press and politicians are removed asap. But I haven't seen even a little bit of admission from the Pakistanis about their role in this mess. Masood Azhar and Hafiz Saeed are still inside Pakistan, did they magically land there? Or do you think they're innocent and charges against them are baseless.
 
Are you disputing that the 1990 wave of Kashmir insurgency was precipitated by the newly freed mujahideen from Afghanistan which the ISI pushed into India? You continue living in your own little fantasy land, where India is the big bad wolf and Pakistan are the innocent lambs. Most Indians have agreed that the current govts actions were heavy handed, and hope that the restrictions on the press and politicians are removed asap. But I haven't seen even a little bit of admission from the Pakistanis about their role in this mess. Masood Azhar and Hafiz Saeed are still inside Pakistan, did they magically land there? Or do you think they're innocent and charges against them are baseless.

You really need help reading don't you :lol:

You suggested insurgency started from 1990 and I was the one who told you it started during the 60's. So if anything, my narrative was the complete opposite of what you just said. I'm not making a point of the "guilty" party here. My point is that you are completely clueless on this issue and subcontinent politics in genera. After all, you think the Military has elected the PM in Pakistan right now :lol:
 
Pakistanis on this thread do realise that most Indians on caf did not vote for Modi/BJP this election, right? Hell, most of the Indians here actually dislike him. The only reason he won was because of shite opposition and propaganda carried out on social media
 
Criticize or praise the decision but I'm struggling to think of any govt. who hold a referendum whilst taking any big decision(exception the brexit of course).

The one on Scottish independence was (I believe) widely acclaimed and developed a false confidence in the British government that it would be useful tool in other areas.
 
Pakistanis on this thread do realise that most Indians on caf did not vote for Modi/BJP this election, right? Hell, most of the Indians here actually dislike him. The only reason he won was because of shite opposition and propaganda carried out on social media

I mean you have people here 1) buying that exact propaganda about kashmir and 2) when I say indians I am obviously not referring just to the ones on the cafe.