Which part are you saying he doesn't want? A GE or to cancel Brexit?He's offering a ge where your mates can vote lib dems in and cancel brexit, but you dont really want that right?
Which part are you saying he doesn't want? A GE or to cancel Brexit?He's offering a ge where your mates can vote lib dems in and cancel brexit, but you dont really want that right?
To be honest i dont think he wants any alternative to any issue. Nothing bar revoking works for Paul.Which part are you saying he doesn't want? A GE or to cancel Brexit?
You're seriously saying Labour want to sit down with the EU to negotiate a new withdrawal agreement and then campaign against it? I suspect the EU might find it a bit difficult to grasp that one as well.Nothing, there's plenty on here very opposed to Corbyn and this issue has clearly demonstrated those who just wish to moan regardless and those who take a fair view of each issue.
This whole argument of a Labour deal is a nonsense. Even if the EU entertain a renegotiation it's still only Labour providing a promised alternative to the public, that doesn't mean they back it over remain themselves. I'm not sure why that's hard to grasp for some.
I said none of that and nor did anyone specify the WA is the target of the renegotiation. Nice rant though.What seems hard to grasp by the Labour Corbyn supporters is that there is no alternative negotiation - there will be no change to citizens rights, there will be no change to the settlement and there will be no change to the backstop other than limiting it to NI instead of the whole of the UK. And no you cannot have the same benefits outside the EU as in it - ergo Corbyn and Labour are not offering a promised alternative to the public- it's garbage. If Tories or the LibDems had said it would have been laughed at by Labour but because it's Corbyn and Labour who have said it it's regarded as sensible. Jesus wept.
Yeah imagine doing a referendum with some thrashed out options. MadnessYou're seriously saying Labour want to sit down with the EU to negotiate a new withdrawal agreement and then campaign against it? I suspect the EU might find it a bit difficult to grasp that one as well.
None of them are my mates, all of the parties are unelectable. This concept of a GE solving the problem is equally daft - whoever gets in, and we all know LibDems will never get in, the UK will be back to square one at the end of it, it doesn't solve anything.He's offering a ge where your mates can vote lib dems in and cancel brexit, but you dont really want that right?
What do think the chances are of the EU granting an extension for this renegotiate but don't necessarily mean it policy?Yeah imagine doing a referendum with some thrashed out options. Madness
I suppose you think it was a great idea to go into the original referendum completely blind to the actual options.
I never rant. So you mean the renegotiation of the political declaration which is meaningless, anything can be negotiated after the WA is signed but to get a deal the WA has to be signed and Labour have voted against it every time.I said none of that and nor did anyone specify the WA is the target of the renegotiation. Nice rant though.
No it's not. My gut feeling is that a GE is the only way to solve the problem. As I see it the trouble with the call to stop a 'no deal brexit' is for many as much of a lie as it was for the the leavers to put that 350m per week on the side of a bus. Truth is that most who are railing against a no deal brexit if they are honest want no form of brexit at all in much the same way as some want a no deal brexit. The only way out of the impasse is for either for the Conservative party with the aid of the Brexit party to get a really decent working majority or for those two parties to be hammered at the next election. There simply is not a middle ground. Teresa thought she would pull it off when she called the 2017 election but of course folks were already peed off with austerity.None of them are my mates, all of the parties are unelectable. This concept of a GE solving the problem is equally daft - whoever gets in, and we all know LibDems will never get in, the UK will be back to square one at the end of it, it doesn't solve anything.
Personally imo leaving the EU is insane but the sooner it happens the better otherwise it will never go away. The Uk will just have to live with the consequences and then both the Tories and Labour will be history. Start over again the political system.
It would of course become policy if that's what the public voted, it's not a futile proposal.What do think the chances are of the EU granting an extension for this renegotiate but don't necessarily mean it policy?
I don't know about that, he's been in support of the WAB being signed too. What I don't understand is why you guys think Remainers would want a GE now. It's not really solving the issue of no-deal Brexit. There's a reason they prefer the issue to go to a referendum.To be honest i dont think he wants any alternative to any issue. Nothing bar revoking works for Paul.
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You realise that's a council by-election where the Tories lost 18% of the vote, right?I don't know about that, he's been in support of the WAB being signed too. What I don't understand is why you guys think Remainers would want a GE now. It's not really solving the issue of no-deal Brexit.
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I do yes. You realise this is a strong indicator of voting intention in a GE right? Or do you think people switch off national politics when they vote for local council elections?You realise that's a council by-election where the Tories lost 18% of the vote, right?
Agree with almost every word apart from the first 2 sentences but ..No it's not. My gut feeling is that a GE is the only way to solve the problem. As I see it the trouble with the call to stop a 'no deal brexit' is for many as much of a lie as it was for the the leavers to put that 350m per week on the side of a bus. Truth is that most who are railing against a no deal brexit if they are honest want no form of brexit at all in much the same way as some want a no deal brexit. The only way out of the impasse is for either for the Conservative party with the aid of the Brexit party to get a really decent working majority or for those two parties to be hammered at the next election. There simply is not a middle ground. Teresa thought she would pull it off when she called the 2017 election but of course folks were already peed off with austerity.
However should the opinion polls be correct in calling a tight race a GE might solve nowt and we end up with another minority government. With either the Conservatives again propped up by the DUP or Labour propped up by the SNP. Mind you if the latter were to be the outcome I'd expect the SNP price to be agreement to another Scottish Independence Referendum.
As one or two others have previously said I do not believe we are truly ever going to see the end of this. It really has split the country in half. Even if there were to be a turnaround and we decided to stay in the EU I would expect at least 40 percent of the population to be as much up in arms as those in advocating remain are the upshot being that the UK would continue in perpetuity to be a reluctant partner in the European Project.
I have almost come around to the view that we should leave and suffer the consequences. Although that's tough to say I reckon that its only by feeling the pain that we might one day realise that being in the EU is better than being out and embrace rejoining. Then again what the heck do I know. Not much really except that all politicians are playing party politics. Not one of them give a damn for the country and the only time I live in a democracy is for the 5 minutes when they seek my vote on GE day. Once elected the tossers do just as they please.
And what happens if neither of the bolded options you outline happens in a GE. What happens if there's no majority and hung parliament again? What view prevails?No it's not. My gut feeling is that a GE is the only way to solve the problem. As I see it the trouble with the call to stop a 'no deal brexit' is for many as much of a lie as it was for the the leavers to put that 350m per week on the side of a bus. Truth is that most who are railing against a no deal brexit if they are honest want no form of brexit at all in much the same way as some want a no deal brexit. The only way out of the impasse is for either for the Conservative party with the aid of the Brexit party to get a really decent working majority or for those two parties to be hammered at the next election. There simply is not a middle ground. .
Oh come off it, a suburb of Shrewsbury which has voted Tory in council elections since the ward was created being held by the Tories with an 18% swing against them tells you nothing, and if it does tell you anything (which it doesn't) what it tells you is that there's a big swing against the Tories.I do yes. You realise this is a strong indicator of voting intention in a GE right? Or do you think people switch off national politics when they vote for local council elections?
It does tell me there's a big swing against the Tories but it also tells me that they could still get a majority in a GE as the Remain vote is split between Greens, Lib Dems and in part Labour. I mean if you don't see the high probability of that, I'd urge you to come off it.Oh come off it, a suburb of Shrewsbury which has voted Tory in council elections since the ward was created being held by the Tories with an 18% swing against them tells you nothing, and if it does tell you anything (which it doesn't) what it tells you is that there's a big swing against the Tories.
Yes, and that can be true without this by-election result being in the slightest bit interesting.It does tell me there's a big swing against the Tories but it also tells me that they could still get a majority in a GE as the Remain vote is split between Greens, Lib Dems and in part Labour. I mean if you don't see the high probability of that, I'd urge you to come off it.
Well that will tell you that there is no appetite to cancel brexit amongst the masses, so why is anyone even discussing brexit?None of them are my mates, all of the parties are unelectable. This concept of a GE solving the problem is equally daft - whoever gets in, and we all know LibDems will never get in, the UK will be back to square one at the end of it, it doesn't solve anything.
As a remainer I would gladly vote for the Lib Dems in a general election. However unfortunately most people are set in their ways for which party they vote - and so will still vote labour or tory regardless. My parents for example will always vote tory, no matter what.Well that will tell you that there is no appetite to cancel brexit amongst the masses, so why is anyone even discussing brexit?
Aww, you were doing so well!Why would anyone, who is not an ardent Jeremy fan, believe he would remain in the EU.? Jeremy's after his own kind of 'no deal' with the EU.
Corbyn's whole political life has been in a anti-EU stance, even before most of the ERG were! Jeremy is a man who has been, in political terms 'baying at the moon' all his life. By a stupendous mistake the Labour party adopted him as its leader, then allowed his 'shock troops' to as it were storm the bastille and make sure he got elected again. Given his Marxist beliefs it would be reasonable to assume that once he obtained power, by whatever means, he would be difficult to shift. This would be nothing new as Jeremy holds fast to his views and in fairness always has, that has been one of his attractions to many of his disciples; however let no one be fooled, Jeremy wants out from the EU as much as any euro-sceptic Tory, if he can use Brexit to get his hands on the leavers of power, then all his revolutionary dreams will come true. Its something of a minor miracle he has got so far... but then they said that about Trump!
Maybe there isn't but Brexit will have the biggest impact on the UK since the war and that includes all the recessions. Everyone's playing party politics and think Brexit will be a minor hiccup.Well that will tell you that there is no appetite to cancel brexit amongst the masses, so why is anyone even discussing brexit?
What do you mean by the bolded? That Corbyn would somehow try to change or circumvent the democratic process to hold on to power like a dictator? Because if so, I have no fecking idea where this is coming from and I'm not even Labour never mind Corbyn. If you mean that'll he'll try to stay in power by normal democraatic means, then how is it any different from any other party or leader?Why would anyone, who is not an ardent Jeremy fan, believe he would remain in the EU.? Jeremy's after his own kind of 'no deal' with the EU.
Corbyn's whole political life has been in a anti-EU stance, even before most of the ERG were! Jeremy is a man who has been, in political terms 'baying at the moon' all his life. By a stupendous mistake the Labour party adopted him as its leader, then allowed his 'shock troops' to as it were storm the bastille and make sure he got elected again. Given his Marxist beliefs it would be reasonable to assume that once he obtained power, by whatever means, he would be difficult to shift. This would be nothing new as Jeremy holds fast to his views and in fairness always has, that has been one of his attractions to many of his disciples; however let no one be fooled, Jeremy wants out from the EU as much as any euro-sceptic Tory, if he can use Brexit to get his hands on the leavers of power, then all his revolutionary dreams will come true. Its something of a minor miracle he has got so far... but then they said that about Trump!
Yes sorry about that, it should be levers, but then again in another context 'leavers' could be acceptable!Aww, you were doing so well!
Economically that would be bad as nothing spooks markets like uncertainty... But in terms of political horsetrading it would be fascinatingAnd what happens if neither of the bolded options you outline happens in a GE. What happens if there's no majority and hung parliament again? What view prevails?
And how is a GE the only way to address a specific question that was started by a referendum, but a referendum isn't?
Freudian slip, I guess?Yes sorry about that, it should be levers, but then again in another context 'leavers' could be acceptable!
Well in the present heated political atmosphere, where Johnson is supposedly either going to prorogue parliament, or refuse to leave if he loses a vote of confidence, where the leader of the Liberals has said she wouldn't accept the results of a second referendum if it turned out to be Leave again, then suggesting a Marxist might seek to hold on to power is not all that outrageous...is it?That Corbyn would somehow try to change or circumvent the democratic process to hold on to power like a dictator?
Yes it isWell in the present heated political atmosphere, where Johnson is supposedly either going to prorogue parliament, or refuse to leave if he loses a vote of confidence, where the leader of the Liberals has said she wouldn't accept the results of a second referendum if it turned out to be Leave again, then suggesting a Marxist might seek to hold on to power is not all that outrageous...is it?
It makes no sense.I don't get it
Ah so because Boris is trying to bypass parliament, so would Corbyn. Solid argument. Yet somehow not as many people brand Boris dangerous as they do with Corbyn. Fascinating.Well in the present heated political atmosphere, where Johnson is supposedly either going to prorogue parliament, or refuse to leave if he loses a vote of confidence, where the leader of the Liberals has said she wouldn't accept the results of a second referendum if it turned out to be Leave again, then suggesting a Marxist might seek to hold on to power is not all that outrageous...is it?
If this is the result of the GE then Leave would almost definitely be the result of a second referendum. No one who doesn't want a No Deal Brexit should vote for a BOJO Tory Party in a GE.A lot. First off Corbyn isn’t really offering a referendum. He is offering a GE which could go either way. The referendum comes a long way later if he wins the GE and if he gets the renegotiation he wants. There’s little to no chance of that happening based on how labour are polling. However a Tory win would see a no deal Brexit without any recourse.
Therefore his proposal is not removing the risk of no deal, merely reducing it and postponing it. Far from ideal for Remainers as you can imagine. It’s not a Remain alliance like people keep saying, since the biggest party in that alliance is Labour and they are officially a Brexit party.
I don’t mind Swinson displaying some brinksmanship to get a better result for Remain and for herself. And a better result would be either a pro Remain caretaker PM (i.e. not Corbyn) or a concession for a referendum before the GE, with no-deal off the ballot. She’s trying to turn Labour to a more Remain stance, using Corbyn’s unpopularity as leverage.
But like others have pointed out, if the play happens, the govt loses the no-confidence vote but Corbyn remains unyielding... then Swinson will have to back down and back Corbyn or be seen as complicit in allowing BoJo to run down the clock. Which I doubt would serve her or the Lib Dems well in the upcoming GE. Not that it would be good for Labour either mind you.
My only chance of beating the Tories in my constituency is a Labour victory. Even in the Euro elections Labour were the highest main party behind the Brexit Party.As a remainer I would gladly vote for the Lib Dems in a general election. However unfortunately most people are set in their ways for which party they vote - and so will still vote labour or tory regardless. My parents for example will always vote tory, no matter what.
I agree with the post you were replying to - the lib dems won't get in. That doesn't however show there is no appetite to cancel brexit, instead just a reflection of politics in this country. People are fixed in their ways.