Paul Pogba racially abused on social media

Dec9003

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As many have said, as long as anonymity is so easily achieved on social media, stupid stuff like this will continue to happen.
Obviously people shouldn't have racist thoughts because a player missed a penalty anyway, but social media needs to do more to punish the idiots.
 

Inigo Montoya

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This post will go unnoticed by most.

So many people read the word racism & automatically correlate that to mean the person in question is racist.

Things are so black & white on here.
Well he did say when posing the rhetorical question, ' can a white person experience racism in the Uk, to me obviously no.'

I liked his post even if at times his argument is rather derivative
 

syrian_scholes

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This will never stop unfortunately, as long as different skin complexions exist people will always use it to attack others; even if they aren't necessarily true racists. Real shame!!
I don't understand what you mean? People use racism without being true racists?
 

DoomSlayer

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Another thing that is very obvious from these situations is that social media should not be used by underage people. The kids are so toxic and don't really care what they write, as long as it brings likes, retweets or whatever else.
 

VanGaalyTime

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I’ll ask you the same question?! :lol: He didn’t have a brilliant game (nobody did) but he was far from terrible. McTominay and Lingard were far, far worse!
I mean Lingard was worse for sure but I'm not sure Mctominay was. But again, I'm not saying Lingard or Mctominay had great matches. Northcroft actively said that Pogba had a great game. He gave the ball away a few times and failed to track runners on at least two occasions. And he also missed a penalty, albeit one he created. I would say that's pretty terrible, particularly when he's our only creative player.
 

Raw

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Would you feel safe with Twitter having your ID though? Hackers and what not
Not really, I'd probably stop using it at that point. I'm just saying that's probably the best way you can ever deal with this. Either that or twitter employs 24/7 security of people constantly checking all over twitter for racist users, and I don't think that's viable (nor would Twitter want to spend the money to do so).
 

Inigo Montoya

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Judging by this thread and reading twitter the troll has won, well done.
The only way trolls don't win is by the actions of good people. I don't use Twitter, but if many more others took the troll to task then they don't win.

The other point being, the larger picture in that racist comments towards footballers of colour seems to be on the increase. Allied to this is the number of racist incidents in lower league and youth team games that go unpublicised
 

SteveJ

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Another thing that is very obvious from these situations is that social media should not be used by underage people. The kids are so toxic and don't really care what they write, as long as it brings likes, retweets or whatever else.
In my experience, younger generations than my own are more socially conscious than mine ever was.
 

Vidyoyo

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As many have said, as long as anonymity is so easily achieved on social media, stupid stuff like this will continue to happen.
Obviously people shouldn't have racist thoughts because a player missed a penalty anyway, but social media needs to do more to punish the idiots.
I don't think sites like Twitter are going to start increasing moderation because nobody wants to take risks when things are working. It just won't happen, and that's before we get into the whole Californian Ideology that tech companies like Twitter have as their foundation - basically the insistence on freedom as long as it doesn't harm profit.

For better or worse, it seems like the only solution is for people to take some form of action themselves, either by roundly criticising these racist posts, or by not putting themselves in a position where they can be racially abused on a wide open platform as Twitter is (or abuse of any kind really). Basically not using Twitter at all!

I'm very skeptical about social media myself because I think it often flies in the face of online community. It's very different to a forum like RedCafe, which is smaller scale and run at the digression of community rules and a moderation team who actively ensure they're maintained for the good of the site.

It's also true that celebrities gain so much from branding themselves online that they'll probably never stop using Twitter. They aren't going back to fan websites and mailing lists. This has become a real issue, because Twitter has become a necessity to them - it's a lot like being locked into a potential abusive relationship.

It seems to me that Twitter knows these kinds of things are inevitable. A bit like Facebook knew it was primed for being used by malicious pages putting up manipulative and politically motivated ads. I don't see them actively pursuing any means to stop it. They might ban accounts but the real problems are fundamental to the medium.

Anonymity + Open Access = Chaos.
 

DoomSlayer

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In my experience, younger generations than my own are more socially conscious than mine ever was.
Well it obviously depends on the environment, but reading the replies to most of the posts that concern our club, the toxicity is disgusting and mostly comes from fake or some sort of player fan accounts, who are mostly made exactly by children.

They try so hard to slate players they don't like and push forward their favourite ones, it becomes unbearable to read any sort of online discussion because it's literally so childish in nature.
 

Rolaholic

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Yep, he's been accused of being racist and going after Pogba due to the colour of his skin.
Provide direct quotes please because this is sounding like completely made up BS to muddy the waters right now...
 

SalfordRed18

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Another thing that is very obvious from these situations is that social media should not be used by underage people. The kids are so toxic and don't really care what they write, as long as it brings likes, retweets or whatever else.
100% agree about how do you enforce that?
 

Jig1234

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Entirely ?! Nah. I do think he should try to be less biased and major voices sadly do influence people. So while I'd prefer him be more rational, actions of weirdly can't be entirely pinned on him.
Entirely was the incorrect choice of word. Will amend. When you analyse a missed penalty/Pogba for that 30mins+ on TV. People will react on Social Media. Not excusing the racial abuse or suggesting it was his fault because it isn't. My point was that pundits like Gary can play a factor in what they say.
 

Inigo Montoya

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In my experience, younger generations than my own are more socially conscious than mine ever was.
Bit of a generalisation. Don't know what your era or generation is but I was a child in the late 60s and there wasn't a more socially conscious society that I've ever been a part of.

There are some of the younger generation who are but I'd say today's youth are about as disaffected and divided politically and socially as I've ever noticed.
 

nainaisson

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Maguire's Twitter user verification suggestions are a step in the right direction but not good enough. Everyone who uses Twitter should have a microchip surgically implanted into his brain that gives him a nasty shock whenever he has politically incorrect thoughts. He should also receive a criminal background check, credit history check, and thorough prostate exam.
 

fergiesarmy1

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Maguire's Twitter user verification suggestions are a step in the right direction but not good enough. Everyone who uses Twitter should have a microchip surgically implanted into his brain that gives him a nasty shock whenever he has politically incorrect thoughts. He should also receive a criminal background check, credit history check, and thorough prostate exam.
And a breathalyser.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Maguire's Twitter user verification suggestions are a step in the right direction but not good enough. Everyone who uses Twitter should have a microchip surgically implanted into his brain that gives him a nasty shock whenever he has politically incorrect thoughts. He should also receive a criminal background check, credit history check, and thorough prostate exam.
We're closer to that than you think. Wasn't it Musk who said all newborns should be microchipped?

Plus who gets to decide what is PC? The govt? You'd trust them?
 

DoomSlayer

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100% agree about how do you enforce that?
I know it's difficult, but I think it should be like online betting where you need to verify your identity and age to be allowed to do it properly. That is if people really want to stamp out this toxic and illegally abusive behaviour though.

There is no ideal solution and it really does kind of become a political issue. It comes to a debate of safety against freedom, in a sense. Some people universally believe that freedom is more important than the safety of known expectations, others are vice versa.
 

Offside

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I don't think it is just kids mate. The anonymity of the internet brings out the trolls and the sickos. Anyone can have a penalty saved, it happens. The problem is that one of our strikers should be the designated taker, this is not the local U11 side where whoever wins it takes it.

We do need to back Pogba as long as he is a player in our team. We can criticize performances, but racism is uncalled for.
Even when Rashford tweeted his support of Pogba earlier, I saw a few United themed accounts tweeting ‘leave the club’ and that kind of nonsense.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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There's a really interesting thing that happens in discussions, I think, where people become exasperated at each other because they are talking at crossed purposes.

When I talk about racism what I mean is the myriad factors that mean that the entire society I live in is based on white supremacist principles. It's the small decisions, organisational and institutional norms; the traditions, practices and principles that bake inequality into almost every facet of social, cultural and political life. In this sense I really mean structural racism - the kind of racism that everyone can (and often will) contribute to without necessarily holding any explicit prejudice in their beliefs. The kind of racism you can contribute to by simply not recognising it exists (and, if you're white, that you benefit from it at the expense of others).

When other people talk about racism they have a much more reductionist view of it. They define it simply as "hating someone because of the colour of their skin" or "acting in a way that is consciously discriminatory due to someone's race." Now, ignoring the argument over which definition is preferable or "right" (because it's the one I use. Everything I think is right. Always). This means that when two people with those two understandings of the word speak to each other they can end up becoming very quickly exasperated with each other because they can't understand where the other one is starting.

Take this thread. There are those that will see Gary Neville's comments as being based in the structural racism that demands different expectations from players of colour, or players from overseas, or players from a religious minority, and want to discuss that issue and unpack the norms that create that situation. Others will read that as an accusation that Neville holds some malicious feeling towards minorities. Crossed wires. Inevitable disagreement.

A good example of this is to ask the question "Is it possible for a white person to experience racism in the UK today?" To me, the answer is obviously no. A white person cannot experience the reality of existing within a society where they are consistently and systematically disadvantaged by their race. They might experience similar discrimination due to class, gender, sexuality, age etc. (intersectionality is complex, y'all!) but the specific experience of structural racism is owned and defined by racial minority groups that suffer due to it. Other people would think of an example where a white person might be discriminated against or even attacked because of their race in the UK and would claim that of course this means that person has experienced racism. They would find my assertion that it's impossible for a white person to experience racism to be basically bizarre and ludicrous. We'd talk at crossed purposes and both end up thinking the other one super weird.

Anyway. Just a thought.
Hey @Church o Choccy what's up?

You should post more, we need quality old schoolers like yourself on the boards.
 

Jig1234

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In what? What exactly is Neville complicit in, beyond saying stupid stuff on his platform?
Everyone is watching MNF. THey can see Neville's anger and frustration. These things can play a part. Not an excuse for the racial abuse but spending 40 mins on a missed penalty seems unusual. I have never seen such OTT reaction to a missed penalty. They barely even analysed the match, Neves' goal or how well Wolves played. It was all about the penalty. People are watching it on TV and that will generate response and potential anger.

What we see pundits say and how they say it matters. Even subconsciously. We hear them speak and the tone they use. Words matter. I think he could have simply handled that a bit better.
 

SteveJ

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Maguire's Twitter user verification suggestions are a step in the right direction but not good enough. Everyone who uses Twitter should have a microchip surgically implanted into his brain that gives him a nasty shock whenever he has politically incorrect thoughts. He should also receive a criminal background check, credit history check, and thorough prostate exam.
Shame, you ruined a humourously ironic post.
 

Adam-Utd

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Everyone is watching MNF. THey can see Neville's anger and frustration. These things can play a part. Not an excuse for the racial abuse but spending 40 mins on a missed penalty seems unusual. I have never seen such OTT reaction to a missed penalty. They barely even analysed the match, Neves' goal or how well Wolves played. It was all about the penalty. People are watching it on TV and that will generate response and potential anger.

What we see pundits say and how they say it matters. Even subconsciously. We hear them speak and the tone they use. Words matter. I think he could have simply handled that a bit better.
Bingo. If Neville came on the screen and said, "oh unlucky Pogba, you did so well to win the penalty and gutted the keeper saved it, better luck next time" then this would never have got that far.

It's the way they blatently tried their hardest to make it a story that's caused all this commotion. Only when Ole and Rashford got interviewed did it suddenly calm down and he started to rationalise what he was saying.
 

WireMUFC

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The only way trolls don't win is by the actions of good people. I don't use Twitter, but if many more others took the troll to task then they don't win.

The other point being, the larger picture in that racist comments towards footballers of colour seems to be on the increase. Allied to this is the number of racist incidents in lower league and youth team games that go unpublicised
People don’t understand the mindset of trolls though, they will do anything for attention because they’re extremely unhappy with themselves and have miserable lonely lives. Just want to point out though when I say trolls do anything for attention ie. tweet something racist, this isn’t me saying they’re not racist because they just do it for attention. If you tweet something racist to someone then you are a racist no matter the motivation.

The point is this person could be a United fan, Chelsea fan, NY Red Bulls fan we don’t know. They could have made an account tweeted something and deleted their account. It’s national news the next day and our fan base is having a debate on racism, attacking one of our club legends and attacking each other on social media. The racist troll has won, he’s got his attention and caused lots of upset within our fan base.

The only way forward I see is, Twitter, The club and Police deal with it privately to prevent copy cats. The Tammy Abraham abuse got lots of attention, the media said it was disgusting and it was. This one has the same hallmarks as the Tammy one, nobody in the public eye praised the Tammy abuse so I don’t think it’s being normalised I think trolls see an opportunity when you see the reaction from people.

The only other solution I see is, is to be able to tweet at high profile people you need to confirm who you are with ID, if you don’t want to put your ID on there you can only tweet to friends and family. Twitter have to take a stance.
 
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Jig1234

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So he's selective about which person of colour he feels sympathy towards based on his nationality? ...riiightio?:rolleyes:

So stupid it's laughable
He isn't?

Has he ever criticised an English player the way he does with Pogba? Jesse Lingard was anonymous. Missed a golden opportunity. Didn't get a mention. He even suggested Dan James was the only leader on the pitch - He didn't even play well. He was good defensively but he had no end product and could not deliver one decent cross without hitting the first man. Mata off the bench made no impact.
 

Jambalaya

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It is sad that things like this are happening in year of 2019.And it was fecking penalty in football match ffs.There is no hope for humanity
 

Sultan

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There would have been no such response from Neville had another player missed the penalty. The whole post-match post mortem was on Pogba missing the penalty. He spoke with such emotion and some of the words he used would be befitting for a traitor. Neville has been on Pogba's back since he's returned to United. Neville and his co-host Souness is always looking for an excuse to stick something on Pogba. Then to make himself look unbiased and rational he adds some complimentary sentences in praise of Pogba.
 

Catt

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Can anyone sum up what Neville said including his backtracking? Thanks.
 

Inigo Montoya

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He isn't?

Has he ever criticised an English player the way he does with Pogba? Jesse Lingard was anonymous. Missed a golden opportunity. Didn't get a mention. He even suggested Dan James was the only leader on the pitch - He didn't even play well. He was good defensively but he had no end product and could not deliver one decent cross without hitting the first man. Mata off the bench made no impact.
None of that points to him being racist.
 

SteveJ

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Bit of a generalisation. Don't know what your era or generation is but I was a child in the late 60s and there wasn't a more socially conscious society that I've ever been a part of.

There are some of the younger generation who are but I'd say today's youth are about as disaffected and divided politically and socially as I've ever noticed.
You're right in that it was a little generalised.

Maybe I'm just sick of the young, the old, foreigners and minorities being blamed for so much.
 

Jig1234

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Bingo. If Neville came on the screen and said, "oh unlucky Pogba, you did so well to win the penalty and gutted the keeper saved it, better luck next time" then this would never have got that far.

It's the way they blatently tried their hardest to make it a story that's caused all this commotion. Only when Ole and Rashford got interviewed did it suddenly calm down and he started to rationalise what he was saying.
The worst thing is that they completely papered over the main issue. Why Ole thinking having two penalty takers is a good thing? From a managerial standpoint it looks weak and naive to have players figure out who takes a penalty. Ole's comments after didn't make a case for it being a good idea either. Sky showed a stat that Rashford is the best penalty taker. So why didn't they discuss Ole and his coaching staff allowing for this situation to occur? - Maybe criticising managers still not Neville's thing.

Also, showed disrespect to Wolves. Who were the better team in the second half. Imagine being a Wolves fan, seeing Neves score that goal for it to be dominated by a missed penalty.