The highlighted stuff is pure BS. Since ole's taken over we've not been outdone tactically much even against top 6 oppositions or CL games. I don't remember coming away from games thinking the setup was wrong, maybe selection but not tactics. Our results were mostly due to the quality of players and individual mistakes.
Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?
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Our good results were mostly due to OGS tactical brilliance and bad results were mostly due to the quality of players and individual mistakes.
I get it, it makes so much sense now.
Never said anything like that. There is a lot of ground between tactically inept and tactically brilliant.
Our good results were mostly due to OGS tactical brilliance and bad results were mostly due to the quality of players and individual mistakes.
I get it, it makes so much sense now.
Well said.
Personally I think Ole has the right ideas, but right now we're seeing absolutely nothing, other than some basic talent acquisition.
What I don't understand is why we played so well for the first few games under him. If it was a mixture of decent ideas and morale boost from Jose leaving then why can't they still do that? Lack of belief? Lack of instruction?
‘Everyone’s confident in the manager, for one, and we may not be doing what he’s telling us to perfection yet but the initial response to his tactics, his training has been phenomenal,’ Rashford continued. ‘For me, his plan, it’s not just a plan for just this season or just the next game, it’s a plan for years. ‘I think he needs to be backed in the position that we’re in now. We don’t need this rotation of managers because you never settle.’
So anyone disagreeing with what you are saying automatically becomes wrong. What a foolproof way of winning an argument.
I have to disagree with you on the topic of the tactics and style Ole is trying to instill in the team, of how we will setup, player roles throughout the team and what to expect when watching us play. Isn't that the main task the manager is faced with on taking on a new team? Every team has a game plan going into every game and this is influenced by a number of factors eg. quality of player available to the team or what style suits your players. Of course for a manger to get his team playing how he wants to he needs time on the training pitch, funds for new players that suit his plan and over time whether for good or bad we still see a mangers influence on his team.
Ole has been in charge of this team for 9 months and that is not enough time for most managers to be completely satisfied with his team and how they have adapted to his management.
However my problem lies with the clear lack of progress the team has made since his appointment. We are still struggling to produce consistently and I feel alot of that lies with the uncertainty in the players.
You just have to look at City as an example of a team in which every player knows his role and the team play to the same tune. That fluidity, understanding built from that confidence in their playing style makes a team full of quality a top club. Guardiola is the best manager in the world in my view and how his teams play and dominate games is a sight to behold.
City's quality manager highlights our manager in that he is a novice in comparison to the other top teams managers and a novice that is managing a huge club that expects results. I don't think Ole is the man to lead us beyond this season, it's too risky especially with another huge rebuild ahead and especially with the form we are showing at the moment.
He could turn it around though and if the team suddenly shows the form of the start of his tenure in which we played some great football, fast counter attacking, clinical and free. But the longer this slump goes on it looks more and more likely it was the players not Ole who were in charge. Listen I like Ole and he is trying his best in a very tough job that far more decorated and experienced managers have also struggled with. I have one man in mind who I believe would be the catalyst of a return to better times, a man who is the the dream candidate to take the hot seat.
Attacking pressure football, a great advocate of using young players and Academy players, PL proven, hungry for trophies and lacks the controversy of managers past.
Mauricio Pochettino must be persuaded become our manager and I think it can happen. Spurs will always be Spurs and they won't challenge consistently enough to give Poch the titles he wants.
We can provide the funds along with similar traditions that he holds in youth and attacking football. I feel the last time a manager of this quality was maybe available and was not pursued in a way that completely convinced them was Guardiola back in 2013. Apparently Ferguson approached Pep in January of that year while Pep was taking sabbatical. Pep was surprised and honored by the gesture but he had already agreed a deal with Munich and we ended up with Moyes and the rest is history. In my heart I can see this is a opportunity we just cannot afford to miss out on. Otherwise Poch will be probably win plenty at Real Madrid and we'll end up with Steve Bruce. Imagine that.
Sorry for the length of the post guys but it's all important to the points im trying to get across
Simple answer: Because he has to deal with baggage of half a decade of mismanagement.
I think that's like 60 percent of management. It's what got Mou and Van Gaal sacked -- getting trash players in.
As for your second part, I think Pogba had a key part to play in that.
Going into this season I was hoping for us to start the season in the same way we started Ole's reign. I at least expected us to finally show some solidity and cohesion from the team especially with a full preseason with almost a full squad to focus on tactics. The Chelseas game was a outlier as the following 4 games have shown the same rigid and strained performances that have continued over from last season. Where is the improvement? That isn't good enough from any manager at any club. There is no excuses especially with the players who didnt suit him being moved on. He needs to step up and fast.
Everyone has ideas but its making them ideas a reality that counts and he still hasn't managed that. Either the plan isn't clear enough or his idea is not good enough. LVG had a style that while very rigid and dated and didn't work as well as liked he still got the whole squad playing his way within 2-3 months.
Mourinho had his defensive style in place from preseason. While both of them were not overly successful they went out playing their way. If Ole doesn't push on from here then he'll be leaving the team playing no way
So does our players as well... too many of them are far away from a standard for a big team.
Rewatch the games then because we were very unlucky in most of them. There are still players who don't suit him btw. Anyone he has signed has proved themselves worthy.
We played well against a Chelsea team that was all over the place and were very good at Wolves until the equaliser and we have been very poor since that Wolves game.
We are being consistently outplayed by midtable teams like Wolves, Leicester, Watford and aren't very convincing against bottom clubs the likes of Palace, or Southampton. This has been the case for the last 3 years and I have found myself going into every game without that confidence that we would win the game no matter what, the confidence that Ferguson had ingrained in all of us. The majority of games we have won for the last 3 seasons were not won in style or won convincingly. Our quality shines through in scoring our goals or moments of magic that seems to be the only time the team seems to remember that they are supposed to be the ones forcing the game. Have you honestly seen an improvement since last December? The players he has now do suit him as he made sure to keep them so there is no other excuses there other than he could have made a couple more signings to bolster the squad. Sad to say but i'd say there wasn't many players available to us that would dramatically improve on what we have and if he signed a player that would only be a stopgap the are right back where we started with loads of deadwood players on high wages that will be here till 2025. I would rather win the league by then, wouldnt you?
Look at Chelsea's performances under Lampard. Look at Norwich. Hell, even look at Bournemouth. You don't need 3 seasons and a full squad of top players to score goals.
Our squad might not be the best, but they are much more than enough to dominate and beat teams like Wolves or Palace ffs
Our squad might not be the best, but they are much more than enough to dominate and beat teams like Wolves or Palace ffs
Chelsea have scored three more, but conceded seven more, below us in the table.
Norwich have scored one more, whilst conceding eight more, below us in the table.
Bournemouth have scored three less, conceded four more, below us in the table.
All teams below us, all have worse goal differences.
That's exactly where im finding it harder and harder to watch games and not see any change or improvement from the last game and the most unbearable and disgraceful sight that has happened multiple times under Ole, the smaller teams with the lesser players at Old Trafford passing the ball around us, forcing the game and putting us under pressure.
This happened most recently when Southampton played us 2 weeks ago and dominated for most the game. Dyu think that for 1 second that under Ferguson, LVG or even Mourinho at times would have allowed Southampton dominate us at Old Trafford so easily that they probably wouldn't have minded playing us there next week again.
Teams who used to fear Old Trafford, a stadium where you just didnt pick up any points and that was it, now enjoy themselves if they push at all usually come away with a draw or a win that before would have been a miracle. Can people honestly see a plan or anything Ole has done as manager because I can't and it seems more likely the players were managing themselves for them 10 games as I don;t see any trace of them performances under Ole since.
If we're building from the back, then you'd say it's a good sign. I'm mostly annoyed with the losing goal we let in against CP. That and not bouncing back stronger against Southampton. All said, beating Leicester and keeping a clean sheets good. Onto the next.
Ya I feel the signings made this summer were well thought through as in wan Bissaka and Maguire both have the quality and versatility to fit in a different managers plans if changes are made. James was a win-win really as his price and his pace being the main selling points and also that if it didn't work out then he could be easily move on at the major loss.I think the lack of midfield and forward purchases were mainly down to who were our first choice targets and who was actually available in this window. It does seem talks were held in regards to Sancho but he was made unavailable for now and I can't see many better young RW that would fit in our team other that him.
As for midfield I think there was mainly interest in Sean Longstaff and other than him I think there was a lack of quality options available to us and same goes for a backup ST. I preferred this approach over buyng a short term fix or taking our 2nd choice as thats how our squad became bloated before with players that were signed and were our 3rd or 4th choice and were simply not good enough.
So lets wait and see what happens next summer.
He’s selling and buying the right players. So far he’s doing a good job in that department but at the same time the club/Ed/the owners didn’t replace any of Lukaku, Herrera, Fellaini and Sanchez. That will cost us valuable points and as a consequence if we’re unlucky we will not qualify to next seasons CL.
The club has a long term plan, a strategy how to clear the deck and replace out dated players with younger, better and more suitable talents. That’s also the right decision but at the same time we’re behind most of the other top clubs regarding football management. Our possession game is on championship level, our tactical approach is almost non existent and the manager don’t know how to improve players both as a unit and on a individual standpoint. At the moment we relying on luck and individual brilliance to create chances or score goals. Yesterday was a perfect example of how we win our games.
In a transition period of two maybe three seasons, if we don’t drop to low in the table, we can continue with this type of amateurish management. Solskjær has parts of the fan base behind him because of his status as a ex player and his positive personality but for those of us who prefer a modern quality manager he don’t have the right profile.
From my perspective Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a care taker and a short term manager. His mission is to lower our wage bill and giving playing time to our academy players. We call him a manager but in reality he’s the owners DoF who takes care of our first team until we find someone who knows how to improve talents and has a modern football philosophy.
The club has a long term plan, a strategy how to clear the deck and replace out dated players with younger, better and more suitable talents. That’s also the right decision but at the same time we’re behind most of the other top clubs regarding football management. Our possession game is on championship level, our tactical approach is almost non existent and the manager don’t know how to improve players both as a unit and on a individual standpoint. At the moment we relying on luck and individual brilliance to create chances or score goals. Yesterday was a perfect example of how we win our games.
In a transition period of two maybe three seasons, if we don’t drop to low in the table, we can continue with this type of amateurish management. Solskjær has parts of the fan base behind him because of his status as a ex player and his positive personality but for those of us who prefer a modern quality manager he don’t have the right profile.
From my perspective Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a care taker and a short term manager. His mission is to lower our wage bill and giving playing time to our academy players. We call him a manager but in reality he’s the owners DoF who takes care of our first team until we find someone who knows how to improve talents and has a modern football philosophy.
“Probably finish seventh or below”
Eh?
What on Earth is that based on?
Eh?
What on Earth is that based on?
Nice word for word I agree and its crazy i have a similar post that touches on the same topics as yours and our views on them are almost identical.
The first part of the sentence is factual, not an opinion (the second part of the sentence was my opinion). I said that Ole is making decisions for the long term not the short term, and if you can't see that then you are wrong. If you can see that but don't care then in my opinion United isn't the club for you.
So anyone disagreeing with what you are saying automatically becomes wrong. What a foolproof way of winning an argument.
OK, one last response then I'm done.
Compared to the dross the players were producing under Mourinho IMO there has been a massive improvement in the style of play.
He depends on the counter attack because it suits the players currently at his disposal.
His tactical awareness has been one of his major strengths since he started at the club (his ability to analyse a game from the bench and make an instant impact as a sub was a major reason why he was so effective for us as a player too).
'He didn't replace Fellaini/Herrera' - feck me, he targeted Rice and Longstaff but the club couldn't get either for various reasons, so rather than sign someone he didn't want or constantly moan about it like Mourinho would have he decided to back Fred and McTominay and wait for the right player(s) to become available, that's the long term view I keep talking about and it is exactly what this, and every football club needs.
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Southampton dominated for most the game? We had almost 60% of possession, twice the shots, more chances and way better passing stats. But yeah sure they dominated for most the game.
Oh great stats thats just as good as watching the game I suppose which you clearly didn't do because stats never tell the whole story of a game. Maybe instead of copy and pasting stats you could go watch the highlights of the match alright.Southampton dominated for most the game? We had almost 60% of possession, twice the shots, more chances and way better passing stats. But yeah sure they dominated for most the game.
Perhaps it is, but if one were to take a long term view, the truly accurate answer is that commercial deals will not be affected only in the short term. If United were to not win the league for the next 10 years and also consistently not participate in the champions league, then those deals will be a lot harder to come by.
I do believe that Ole will get 2 more windows. Then he needs to show vast improvements, and challenge for all honours, winning some trophies.
Taken from reddit.
But he wasn't asked about a long term view, he was asked about a very short term one. That's why it is disingenuous, he was specifically asked about a single season and he was asked whether he expected to have new sponsorship deals based on that season.
In the summer of 2018,we completely failed to support Mourinho in the transfer window..,.
Not sure if the Glazers would be happy with such a situation.,..At the end of the day we atleast need someone who can take us back to the CL....The glazers won’t tolerate a manager not qualifying for the CL.Just look at the ruthless way in which they got rid of Moyes and LVG.Moyes was sacked as soon as it became mathematically impossible to qualify for the CL and LVG was sacked a few days after winning the FA Cup....
For that matter look at the way they got rid of Mourinho so soon into last season.The Glazers haven’t invested in the squad over the last 2 seasons and they need to be slammed for that....But I disagree with the notion that they would be comfortable with a manager who’s not taking the team forward..,,Ole will be gone if we don’t qualify for next seasons CL....
Just the 80m on Fred and Dalot and haven’t they been fantastic signings.
Glazer kept spending like a mad men every season. Even when we won the fa cup and europa cup. Just abit of objectivity.
It might not be 500m every year but they did spend alot.
I think it’s less about dropping standards than falling expectations. We are getting accustomed to not winning. I think this set of players are, too, with a few exceptions.
Not enough....Liverpool spent 40 million on Fabinho,52 million on Naby Keira,13 million on Shaqiri and 65 million on Allison...That’s 170 million quid right there...,Liverpool reached the CL final,had a manager who was at the club longer than Mourinho and still spent 170 million....
Chelsea spent 52 million on Jorginho,72 million on Kepa and 58 million on Pulisic in December...Don’t even want to talk about the millions spent by City over the last 4-5 seasons.Guardiola messed up his signings in his first season...signed the wrong GK but the club still kept backing him in the transfer window...
Our squad wasn’t good enough to compete for the league,and a Mourinho tried to warn everybody by saying that just because we ended up 2nd,don’t be lulled into thinking that this squad can compete for the title.We didn’t heed his warning....we didn’t support him in the transfer market....
Now why would you go and introduce facts, that’s just silly
What are all these brilliant decisions he has taken so far? Selling off deadwood for pittance is hardly brilliant. As for buying, we've paid a world record fee for a defender, again hardly brilliant. James was a good signing I agree. As for the things on the pitch, nothing has really changed, we still look like shite. Last season all OGS fans could say was we had no pre-season, our players are not equipped with OGS' pressing style. Fast forward to now we still look like crap, we dont press well, we dont pass well, we dont create much, we are parking the bus at home to the likes of Leicester and I'm pretty sure we are going to get smashed by our biggest rivals this year.
Oh and as for your last bit, please get off your high horse, we are all Manchester United fans, just because you can stomach the crap being served on the pitch doesn't mean we all have to take it too. No one is asking OGS to win the treble this year, but asking us to play dominantly against the likes of Southampton, Crystal Palace, Leicester etc. is not much.
I agree with you,that’s why I said “last 2 seasons”.I don’t think they did enough in 2018....Just spending 80 million on Fred,Dalot and Lee Grant was nowhere near enough when rivals like Liverpool spent 170 million to improve...And I think we should have spent big to sign a midfielder this summer,although to be fair they didn’t spend a lot on Wan Bissaka and Maguire...