Redlambs
Creator of the Caftards comics
So...many...grammar...mistakes...can't...control...brain...It's sad how you're kids are affected by a fictional couple of same sex couple of penguins. Thoughts and prayers.
So...many...grammar...mistakes...can't...control...brain...It's sad how you're kids are affected by a fictional couple of same sex couple of penguins. Thoughts and prayers.
I was in year 4 (so 8 years old) when for the first time some other kid told me I'd dropped my "gay card" and the same year we found a porn mag thrown away in some bushes (after beavers... this sentence is fun). I figured out what the weird vending machines that I kept seeing in toilets were by year 5.
Kids find out about this stuff young whether or not the school or parents are telling them. I'd rather they find out about these things in a positive and well informed way, rather than what we had in the 90s.
Both fair points and I kind of agree. I remember a girl in my primary school having her period and it was gossip and not really knowing what was going on amongst us boys.Depends what they're learning. I can understand wanting a limit on it and not going into detail but the reality is that if your kid is 9 probably knows (or thinks he knows) a bit already, a lot of which may be wrong. People say "let kids be kids" but part of being a kid is being curious and talking about sex-related stuff with your friends.
I didn't have sex-ed when I was in primary school but boys in the senior classes certainly knew and talked to each other about things like sex, threesomes, how to avoid getting girls pregnant, etc.. It was terribly misinformed and immature stuff (lads calling each other virgins as a put down without irony, calling each other gay, saying your mom likes doing X or whatever) but the awareness was there. Plus this was in a time just before kids had mobile devices, which I'm sure has seen kids presented with information at an earlier age.
And as @Redlambs pointed out a few pages back, his 8 and 10 year old already know "a scary amount" about LGBT and trans issues. Sometimes I think adults underestimate or have forgotten what primary school kids are aware of.
Also, I'm just thinking of this from a boy's perspective. Girls can get their first periods at as young an age as 10 and I'm sure they are aware of it before then. Teaching them about that is part of sex ed too which makes waiting until 11 a potential issue as I would guess there can be quite a bit of anxiety and/or feelings of shame involved.
The Caf is full of vicious debates about, well, just about any topic imaginable. It's generally very far from being an echo chamber - this thread if 13 pages of debate, for one.And it's not just even political, it's a very real echo chamber here now about any and all topics. We are so entrenched in our side, we just drive away opposite thinking yet wonder why we get the likes of trump and brexit.
I'd like to know why people are so afraid of a world without hate, Steve.It's laughable, and tragically ironic, this notion that same-sex 'indocrination' is somehow more insidious and worryingly persuasive than the prevailing notion.
They certainly will if dick head adults conspire to force them to.Every kid who is going to want to transition is going to have a horrible phase - it is that feeling of being trapped which is an indicator they’re in the wrong body.
It’s a necessary element in dictating whether they need transition.
In all fairness you probably are sheltered.Both fair points and I kind of agree. I remember a girl in my primary school having her period and it was gossip and not really knowing what was going on amongst us boys.
I didn’t see porn untill comp though, I remember just loving going on holidays to Greece while still in primary school and loving the naked postcards which used to have full bush back then
I just think kids all age and find out about stuff at different times, not sure if my child has been a bit more sheltered but he seems too innocent to be talking about banging one of his friends he fancies, and being taught about that is a bit too far.
Maybe I’m living my own sheltered life.
Let‘s do it in German, then. I bet you’ll do great.So...many...grammar...mistakes...can't...control...brain...
Yeah, mate. I'm quite a naive thinker, I guess, so my simple view is: love is love.I'd like to know why people are so afraid of a world without hate, Steve.
There's nothing that backs up your postulation. The likelihood of your scenario occuring is so miniscule that it doesn't merit consideration, hence my assertion that you're hysterical and lacking logic.What’s illogical about it - did I say it will definitely lead to someone wanting to transition - it was ‘might’.
No, just because there's some debate that's not against what an echo chamber is.The Caf is full of vicious debates about, well, just about any topic imaginable. It's generally very far from being an echo chamber - this thread if 13 pages of debate, for one.
How about you just get to your point and save us both some time?Let‘s do it in German, then. I bet you’ll do great.
Fair enough. Probably just find it hard to acceptIn all fairness you probably are sheltered.
These kids know a lot more than you think. Take it from someone who has complete control over all interenet related devices their kids have yet still gets hit with a haymaker or two.
It's not 13 pages of debate at all though is it? It's about 10 pages of yelling between the homophobic and those too up there own arse to actual debate anything. Some them staff or former staff too i recall correctly.The Caf is full of vicious debates about, well, just about any topic imaginable. It's generally very far from being an echo chamber - this thread if 13 pages of debate, for one.
Yep. More than that: there's only one of these that actually gets culturally imposed as a norm on kids and teens on a daily basis. And it isn't homosexuality.It's laughable, and tragically ironic, this notion that same-sex 'indocrination' is somehow more insidious and worryingly persuasive than the prevailing notion.
It is hard to accept mate. Really fecking hard.Fair enough. Probably just find it hard to accept
You have a great ability to say one thing, and then in the same post destroy any notion of the clue you pretend to have.Once again I never argued against the teaching of it. I said teach it, just wait until it is more age appropriate.
I have a lot more of a clue than you do pal. Throwing around accusations of homophobia to push an agenda when the person you’re throwing it at is in support of the freedom to choose your own sexuality.
It was a grey area a decade ago. These days it's pretty black and white for most people. The only people who still find it a grey area are archaic and need to catch up to the rest of society.Sorry but some of you are being massive arseholes in here. There's clearly a grey area discussion, a genuinely interesting one, to be had here yet you're reducing it to petty insults and simplistic arguments.
Spot on.It was a grey area a decade ago. These days it's pretty black and white for most people. The only people who still find it a grey area are archaic and need to catch up to the rest of society.
One of the better points I’ve read throughout this thread. Children shouldn’t be underestimated; they are capable of learning and comprehending a lot more than some of people in this thread (and beyond) might think.Depends what they're learning. I can understand wanting a limit on it and not going into detail but the reality is that if your kid is 9 probably knows (or thinks he knows) a bit already, a lot of which may be wrong. People say "let kids be kids" but part of being a kid is being curious and talking about sex-related stuff with your friends.
I didn't have sex-ed when I was in primary school but boys in the senior classes certainly knew and talked to each other about things like sex, threesomes, how to avoid getting girls pregnant, etc.. It was terribly misinformed and immature stuff (lads calling each other virgins as a put down without irony, calling each other gay, saying your mom likes doing X or whatever) but the awareness was there. Plus this was in a time just before kids had mobile devices, which I'm sure has seen kids presented with information at an earlier age.
And as @Redlambs pointed out a few pages back, his 8 and 10 year old already know "a scary amount" about LGBT and trans issues. Sometimes I think adults underestimate or have forgotten what primary school kids are aware of.
Also, I'm just thinking of this from a boy's perspective. Girls can get their first periods at as young an age as 10 and I'm sure they are aware of it before then. Teaching them about that is part of sex ed too which makes waiting until 11 a potential issue as I would guess there can be quite a bit of anxiety and/or feelings of shame involved.
Christ you’re clueless. Imagine still thinking that sexuality is a choice.Once again I never argued against the teaching of it. I said teach it, just wait until it is more age appropriate.
I have a lot more of a clue than you do pal. Throwing around accusations of homophobia to push an agenda when the person you’re throwing it at is in support of the freedom to choose your own sexuality.
No teaching 4 and 5 year olds LGBT isn't black and white for "most people" because most people understand there's a difference between thinking 'there's nothing wrong with LGBT' and whether it's wise to educate very young children instead of waiting a few more years. The actual minister said it wouldn't be 4 year olds for instance.It was a grey area a decade ago. These days it's pretty black and white for most people. The only people who still find it a grey area are archaic and need to catch up to the rest of society.
I see this quite a lot but I think it’s utter bullshit. there’s no meeting in the middle when it comes to some things. If one guy thinks a non-hetero should be allowed to teach children and another doesn’t, what do you do? It wasn’t that kids were given books about gay penguins that led to us Trump and Brexit, it’s because there’s shit loads of bigots around. It feels like a weird way to try and absolve them. They voted for that shit man.And it's not just even political, it's a very real echo chamber here now about any and all topics. We are so entrenched in our side, we just drive away opposite thinking yet wonder why we get the likes of trump and brexit.
For once and for all at no stage did I think it is a choice. It was poor wording - I meant the decision to come out is a choice but obviously the decision to be gay or transgender etc is an instinct which is developed naturally whether it is genetic or determined by natural causes etc.Christ you’re clueless. Imagine still thinking that sexuality is a choice.
Well done for overlooking the post where I explained that I didn’t think it was a choice. But like we have seen throughout this entire thread you boys can’t really debate and hence seize on any wording or phrasing error to pretend your points are valid.You have a great ability to say one thing, and then in the same post destroy any notion of the clue you pretend to have.
Agree this thread is a mess. Loads of insults being thrown around by the atheists/non religious with largely a debate venturing around when not if it should be taught.Well done for overlooking the post where I explained that I didn’t think it was a choice. But like we have seen throughout this entire thread you boys can’t really debate and hence seize on any wording or phrasing error to pretend your points are valid.
Is there any basis for this scenario you've constructed? Is your view that a situation could transpire like that based on any type of research/case studies or a specific knowledge you've of human psychology?The harm is that let’s just take the cross dress and trans example.
A kid who engages in some cross dressing at age 4 does it out of a sense of curiousity and fun, or his parents think it would be cute if he dresses as a girl. They think nothing more of it.
Now suddenly at school he’s told that if he wants to cross dress on a more regular basis it’s totally cool and if he wants to become a girl permanently he can go ahead and do it. He has no idea of the medical consequences of undergoing this process and relationships wise how this will impact him long term.
So something which was just a bit of fun might now become a permanent obsession in his head. He is then trapped into a lifetime of hormone replacement, relationship issues (reduced pool of partners to pick from). So morally nothing wrong has happen but from a practical perspective you have altered his life and not necessarily for the better because you’ve made it harder.
Again not necessarily anything wrong with that but if you had waited till he’s abit older and he’s grown out of that phase and his parents probably wouldn’t cross dress him as he gets older.. when he’s given lessons on transgender he’s able to gain awareness of how to treat transgender and he feels secure in his own identity by then but can accept that others might not. Either way he’s in a more stable state of mind to process this info by virtue of being abit older.
On the flip side if he had throughout his childhood been feeling trapped in his body - the fact he’s had years of feeling trapped means he is a lot more sure that he is a girl in a boys body so when he does receive those lessons - he’s in a much secure position to make that leap of faith and change his identity because he’s confident his decision is the right one and he’s mature enough to make that call.
Shouldn't any debate be rooted on evidence?Well done for overlooking the post where I explained that I didn’t think it was a choice. But like we have seen throughout this entire thread you boys can’t really debate and hence seize on any wording or phrasing error to pretend your points are valid.
The simple fact that you say this is a 'decision' suggests the idea of choice.the decision to be gay or transgender etc is an instinct
Exactly. Informing all kids isn't going to make binary kuds turn gay or transexual. The very idea is ludicrous and based on irrational fear of anything other than hetrosexuality being considered normal/moral. Even if people think it isn't in their case.I don't know how my life would've been if I'd been told I had the ability to transition when I was a five year old who hated people calling me a boy. But I definitely feel robbed of that option.
Yeah I'm also not feeling comfortable posting in the generals on the caf anymore, anything you say and you might get piled on with a bunch of insults from condescending people thinking they are smarter than anyone, like why would you tell me being gay is okay? I already know that you condescending feck.Sorry but some of you are being massive arseholes in here. There's clearly a grey area discussion, a genuinely interesting one, to be had here yet you're reducing it to petty insults and simplistic arguments.
So why would you have any issue telling a 5 or 6 year old that sometimes men love other men, and that thats okay?why would you tell me being gay is okay? I already know that you condescending feck.
I didn't say anything about that, I have absolutely no opinion on the matter, I'm sensing a condescending theme towards some people in this thread and changing their words into some vile shit to prove a point.So why would you have any issue telling a 5 or 6 year old that sometimes men love other men, and that okay?
Well suggesting we shouldn't educate kids about relationships because we might "brainwash them into choosing to be gay or transexual" is some pretty vile shit, would you disagree?I didn't say anything about that, I have absolutely no opinion on the matter, I'm sensing a condescending theme towards some people in this thread and changing their words into some vile shit to prove a point.
you seem quite angryI didn't say anything about that, I have absolutely no opinion on the matter, I'm sensing a condescending theme towards some people in this thread and changing their words into some vile shit to prove a point.
Words are all there is to go on in this thread so people need to choose them carefully and not moan when they don't and they get called out on that.I didn't say anything about that, I have absolutely no opinion on the matter, I'm sensing a condescending theme towards some people in this thread and changing their words into some vile shit to prove a point.
I'm not, why would I be? Actually I'm quite interested in this experience in the UK and I'd like to see the results, it'll probably turn out fine and hopefully helpful.you seem quite angry
I don't think @Raees meant it like that, I'd prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt rather than jump into conclusions, on the other hand you assuming that I have an issue with it is condescending, and it's probably because I'm a Muslim, and that for me is an issue.Well suggesting we shouldn't educate kids about relationships because we might "brainwash them into choosing to be gay or transexual" is some pretty vile shit, would you disagree?
https://www.kqed.org/futureofyou/440851/can-you-really-know-that-a-3-year-old-is-transgenderIs there any basis for this scenario you've constructed? Is your view that a situation could transpire like that based on any type of research/case studies or a specific knowledge you've of human psychology?
I think that calling people homophobes while they specifically said multiple times that they only have an issue that the content might be too heavy for a 6 year old is insane, I thought that people wouldn't jump into judgement like that.Words are all there is to go on in this thread so people need to choose them carefully and not moan when they don't and they get called out on that.
Trying to hide such things from kids seems to suggest that people have an issue with it. Even if they think they don't.Yeah I'm also not feeling comfortable posting in the generals on the caf anymore, anything you say and you might get piled on with a bunch of insults from condescending people thinking they are smarter than anyone, like why would you tell me being gay is okay? I already know that you condescending feck.