Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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1)No one is happy about that. It's happening and maybe more should be done (although that itself would exacerbate the problem), but saying people are happy about it is disgusting. You aren't helping anyone, are you?
2)Yeah the nations near the EU trying something different have all been crushed. Life is terrible in Switzerland and Norway you know...
I think the second reading will pass, as will the timetable.
The problem for Johnson is amendments, I think an amendment to stop a WTO end to the transition (i.e. forcing the government to seek to extend the transition if no trade deal agreed by in time) will pass, this will either cause Johnson to withdraw the bill or will mean some of the ERG withdraw their support so the bill won't pass on Thurs. If a customs union amendment passes then it's game over.
As for what happens after that, I'd suspect Johnson agrees to the extention and tries again for an election, he might get one too this time.
In all seriousness, that's a good description of national socialism, I know Hilter shafted the unions by giving them their mayday holiday then disbanding them (just as Johnson will shaft the working class voters with workers' rights) but Hitler courted their support for years and national socialism was, in the beginning, aimed at the working classes to steer them away from communism and internationialism.
Corbyn's view of this country is as much, if not more, in line with National Socialism. Taking over business, forcibly if necessary, big government and control over people's lives. Don't forget, it's actually called Socialism.
He's an antisemite too.
This is why giving MPs overnight to read a 200 odd page document is absurd. Hopefully an amendment is placed to extend the timetable for scrutinizing this legislation because there's no reason it has to be rushed through like this.
I think I'm leaning towards favouring deselection for any Labour MP who supports Boris here.
To be fair to finneh, the EU acknowledges the CAP has some significant negative environmental and social impacts in developing countries and is looking at ways to mitigate them. Here’s an EU Parliament report on the issues involved: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2018/603862/EXPO_STU(2018)603862_EN.pdffor feck sake man, all you can find me is an article from a pro-leave website?
I don't even know why that's an issue. Surely it is a matter of having the whip removed.
I'm not sure how that article is a negative. The fact that they've acknowledged the problems and are actively outlining how to solve them is surely a good thing? I never denied the fact that Europe's greed can have a bad effect on developing countries, it's Finneh's radical idea that the UK would be better off outside the EU because it can "help poor black people" that I find hilarious. As if the UK on its own, struggling as an economy, will give a flying feck about African nations as it tries to worm its way back into relevance.
I mean their main priority is getting back into a trade agreement with the EU which will mean largely implementing the policies of the CAP anyway so what's the point? Let's be honest he's said it as a pure smokescreen to make it look like he wants to leave for "the right reasons" which we all know is bullshit. He already made a load of bullet points earlier in the thread and this was practically at the bottom of his list.
You read that report quick.
'Solving' the issue is only going to go so far, to be honest. The EU is a protectionist trade block, with a common market to protect European producers (and consumers) at the expense of other countries. It necessarily involves discriminating against producers outside the trade block, that's the entire point. The subsidies of the CAP have pretty huge distortions on many global agricultural markets, which few in the EU deny. Whether you think that is a good thing or not is another issue (I personally think it is justifiable).
I also agree that finneh is being disingenuous in his arguments for voting leave, but this is one issue where there is a valid argument to be made. I will argue the ends justify the means, but don't dismiss people who think the 'EU first' mentality is problematic in a polarised global economy.
I mean it is fact that a majority of people voted for brexit due to xenophobic reasons. Thats literally what all the polls show.
You're preaching to the choir here, as I already said, I'm not in denial that the EU is a problem for developing countries and needs to do much more.You read that report quick.
'Solving' the issue is only going to go so far, to be honest. The EU is a protectionist trade block, with a common market to protect European producers (and consumers) at the expense of other countries. It necessarily involves discriminating against producers outside the trade block, that's the entire point. The subsidies of the CAP have pretty huge distortions on many global agricultural markets, which few in the EU deny. Whether you think that is a good thing or not is another issue (I personally think it is justifiable).
I also agree that finneh is being disingenuous in his arguments for voting leave, but this is one issue where there is a valid argument to be made. I will argue the ends justify the means, but don't dismiss people who think the 'EU first' mentality is problematic in a polarised global economy.
I don't think the bold is in any way true, because it's pure fantasy to think the UK will rectify any of the problems caused to those countries by the EU, should a clean break occur. I don't think it's even been mentioned by any politicians in the last four years, unless you count Teresa May having a dance in South Africa.
I don't know what 'needs to do much more' really means in this context. This is the point of a trade block with a common external tariff to protect its producers and internal market.
I remember reading this paper about 15 years ago and it stuck with me: https://policy-practice.oxfam.org.u...r-regime-is-devastating-livelihoods-in-114623
I agree the UK having an independent trade policy isn't going to do much, if anything. It could eliminate tariffs and quotas on agricultural goods from developing countries I guess, but would inevitably destroy its own domestic farming sector. Fun times.
A bill of this importance and complex surely needs the timetable to be longer than being proposed? This is more important than party politics as it needs proper scrutiny as it affects the country and us all for years - It matters that this scrutiny takes as long as it's needed.
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Is Boris trying to get this through in such a short timescale is basically to appease his ego and grandstanding, or am I missing something obvious?
He doesn't want for people to notice how many rabid fleas this dog of a deal has.
Pressure from his paymasters #notsoconspiracytheory
Why would the EU give us a free trade deal when one of the main points of the EU is to protect its markets and producers? Surely we must be giving up something in return?
Of course, that’s blindingly obvious but Brexiteers are impatient and terrified it’s never going to happen, Boris and co are desperate to steer us towards No Deal so are playing on the Brexiteers impatience and trying to force it through.
Is this realistic? Could Boris just not table the bill if he wasnt happy with the Amendments? And would the result then be no deal?
In return, we would give tariff free access to the UK market and some commitments to 'level playing field' regulations.
So now where here there will be "admin fees" for businesses and residents ordering things from the mainland UK... What a fecking joke, the vast majority of purchase and trade is done with mainland UK. Yeah this is a great deal for NI.
Its not just realistic it's likely. It wouldn't be no deal though as the EU will be giving us an extension and that'll be written into EU law.
All feeds into their delay mantra. I assume the real reason they've given MPs 12 hrs is so when they moan they could repeat "delay, delay, delay".
Brexit branded 'waste of time and energy' by Jean-Claude Juncker as Donald Tusk insists no-deal will 'never be' EU's decision
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...ile-donald-tusk-insists-he-bloc-a4267421.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...ile-donald-tusk-insists-he-bloc-a4267421.html
Jokes on Junker, it's been a waste of money and resources.
So now where here there will be "admin fees" for businesses and residents ordering things from the mainland UK... What a fecking joke, the vast majority of purchase and trade is done with mainland UK. Yeah this is a great deal for NI.
Yeah, and Barclay has also confirmed that NI businesses will have to complete export declaration forms when sending good to Britain.
You read that report quick.
'Solving' the issue is only going to go so far, to be honest. The EU is a protectionist trade block, with a common market to protect European producers (and consumers) at the expense of other countries. It necessarily involves discriminating against producers outside the trade block, that's the entire point. The subsidies of the CAP have pretty huge distortions on many global agricultural markets, which few in the EU deny. Whether you think that is a good thing or not is another issue (I personally think it is justifiable).
I also agree that finneh is being disingenuous in his arguments for voting leave, but this is one issue where there is a valid argument to be made. I will argue the ends justify the means, but don't dismiss people who think the 'EU first' mentality is problematic in a polarised global economy.
The article that Finneh quoted was written by someone who clearly has no idea what he's writing about , collated a few details, whether correct or not and come up with an article with a headline "how the EU starves Africa". He has obviously no idea how trade works, tariffs or agreements, that there are for example African equivalents to the EU such as ECOWAS , that they are in the process of looking at having the same currency, that there is an EPA between the EU and Ecowas which is signed up by all parties awaiting Nigeria to be the last one which gives tariff free access the the single market and allows tariffs to be charged by ECOWAS countries on 25% of their goods.
I'll stop here because I could go on all day.
Yes there are some problems which are in the process of being addressed. finneh's got the wrong bogeyman, he's much further to the east.
Yeah and how was this found out? A simple question to which the original answer was "no they wont have to", a few minutes later when what looked like a note was handed to Barclay did he say "yes they would have more paperwork". Its an absolute mess of a situation where information clearly isn't known around this deal and should rightly be rejected out of hand. Il be honest I was all for honouring the leave vote but really I am starting to see that no one hand of heart could say this is what was up for a vote originally. It has now become a question of keeping a Union.
Dragged kicking and screaming to that position. He's a Bennite and hates the EU. That is why he was invisible during the referendum campaign - even though he was supposed to be supporting remain. He bears a lot of responsibility for where we are now. At every juncture he has had it in his gift to influence matters - from the referendum itself to passing Mays deal and sidelining the nutters in parliament. But he has cynically decided to play politics all the way through.Erm 'was' ... his stated party policy is now for a 2nd referendum.
PS: I don't like Corbyn anyway. Labour yes, Corbyn, No.
Yes I think it may actually be the most realistic option
Bill withdrawn... (if government think customs union or 2nd referendum will pass) EU then offer extension (gut feel they offer it till June) and say right last extension... You now have time to run an election and a referendum if you need to but either you resolve it by June 1st or you sign up to the next 7 year funding commitments.
With an extension secured either labour launch a no confidence motion... Or more likley they agree to vote with Boris for an election asap under fixed term parliament act
We get an election in early December and from there honestly who knows
You'd have thought the minimum requisite before appearing before a select committee would be to have your brief totally nailed. Thinking you can wing one of those is a total mugs game.
It is and it shows the cheer audacity of the Tory party, Boris' arrogance is clearly rubbing off on them.
Just a thought. Would it be possible for the May deal to be brought back?
What to expect today in the Commons https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-50136270
UK Parliament/Jessica TaylorCopyright: UK Parliament/Jessica Taylor
Today’s sitting in the Commons will get under way at 11.30 BST, when MPs will question business and energy ministers for about an hour.
After this, there will be an urgent question from Conservative MP David Davis on the plight of British children trapped in Syria.
This means the debate on the government’s Withdrawal Agreement Bill (WAB) is likely to start at about 13.15 BST.
MPs are expected to debate the bill until 19.00 BST, after which they will be asked whether they want to give their general approval to it by backing it at second reading stage.
If they do, then after this they will be asked to approve the government's three-day timetable for scrutinising the legislation - which has proved a major flashpoint with opposition MPs.
UK Parliament/Jessica TaylorCopyright: UK Parliament/Jessica Taylor
Today’s sitting in the Commons will get under way at 11.30 BST, when MPs will question business and energy ministers for about an hour.
After this, there will be an urgent question from Conservative MP David Davis on the plight of British children trapped in Syria.
This means the debate on the government’s Withdrawal Agreement Bill (WAB) is likely to start at about 13.15 BST.
MPs are expected to debate the bill until 19.00 BST, after which they will be asked whether they want to give their general approval to it by backing it at second reading stage.
If they do, then after this they will be asked to approve the government's three-day timetable for scrutinising the legislation - which has proved a major flashpoint with opposition MPs.
October 31st, Doesn't want to die in a ditch.
He already died in a ditch for writing his "Dear EU, My name is Boris and I am 5" letter
Isn't that what they've all been doing, isn't that what we expect of our politicians, i.e. to 'play politics' until that is, they play in a way that we don't agree with, then we term them 'cynical'?
All politicians are/have to be, cynical and if Brexit has taught us/or confirmed for us anything, its that...oh yes, and they are all claiming to be doing what their constituents tell them, or carrying out 'the Will of the people', or campaigning for a 'People's Vote' (who else would be voting if not the people??), or acting in the National interest. This last one absolutely kills me.
What can we do about it? Well, perhaps install a 'benevolent dictator', send to the Tower (for five years) all Politicians who break their election promises, we could elect the 'Monster Raving Looney' Party, or even the Lib Dems!!
It isn't constructive and it isn't completely true. Having said that there's certainly an element of truth to the idea of it being less well educated people vs well educated people. From my own experiences people who voted leave do not, on the whole, have any sensible argument other than usually waffling on about British Bulldog type spirit. There are a minority of leavers I've met that have raised important points though including immigration and concerns surrounding sovereignty.
The 'socialist' part of the NSDAP was basically a label to attract the working class away from communism, in it's implementation national socialism was a fusion of business leaders and government so not socialist at all. Like I said they disbanded the unions very quickly after gaining power.
There were old communists in the party leadership, mostly from Northern Germany, but these either dropped their socialist ideas like Goebbels or were pushed out/killed like Strasser.
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