He's a shill mate. I sussed him a while back. Preferably ignore hom
Ole Gunnar Solskjær needs more time and respect at Manchester United
- Thread starter Rood
- Start date
Im quite happy to admit that I will give Ole (or in fact pretty much any similar explayer) a lot more leeway than I would be willing to give to the likes of Jose
But this is not just because he's an explayer, its also because the club is such a mess at the moment after years of bad decisions and short term thinking. We need a radical rethink and there is clearly a lot of structural changes going on behind the scenes so its going to be a period of instability.
Plus I trust him to make the right decisions for the long term of the club and there is a clear plan based on youth with a British core.
Obviously we are nowhere near where we want to be on the pitch but I would say that this summer was the most successful since Fergie in terms of quality of players bought in, they focused on the defence and we have vastly improved in that area. So for me I want to see Ole given a couple more windows to bring in the midfield and attack he wants and only then should he be finally judged.
That's why they are seen as all time greats. SAF was the equivalent of a Tuchel when he joined United and he went from very good young manager to undisputed best because he was given a very special mission which was to rebuild a club from top to bottom, culturally and technically, he did that and indeed needed time to do it. Now the important point is to always remember that SAF was a top manager when he got the job, he wasn't Molde's manager. I get that people try to be kind with Ole but we need to remember that he is a nobody among managers, he is someone who in normal circumstances would be a candidate for relegation teams and even then he wouldn't be favorite to land the job.
I couldn't have said it better. When the club is ready to fire managers who have more experience, more titles and pedigre than Ole, why should he be awarded some special leeway ?
Interestingly if we beat Norwich this weekend then we've had the same start as LVG's first season, from a points perspective.
It's impressive that we finished fourth that season given the start. Absolutely can't see it happening this time around (especially as we were still only 4 points off fourth after ten games in 15/16) but it shows how quickly things can change.
It's impressive that we finished fourth that season given the start. Absolutely can't see it happening this time around (especially as we were still only 4 points off fourth after ten games in 15/16) but it shows how quickly things can change.
For all those people who are pointing their finger at Woodward and the board for this mess and not OGS,
Woodward and the board do not take training
Woodward and the board do not employ on-field tactics
Woodward and the board do not manage the first team squad
Yes, they're responsible for their share of problems here by being generally inept, but they're largely not responsible for whats happening on the field (if you want to bring transfers into it, then yes). That is OGS. He's responsible for our shocking lack of attacking prowess, lack of playing style and partially the way how our squad is now. A good manager would get a tune out of their players and would get them playing in a certain way in which they'd win games.
Personally I just want us to play in an exciting way and I'll accept that results aren't always going to go our way and probably won't win trophies this season. If we were having Chelsea's season right now, I'd be happy and I wouldn't be calling for OGS' head... but we're not and we're having the season a lot of people thought Chelsea were going to have, with their transfer ban and their standout player leaving.
Comparing OGS' struggles to the notable Sir Alex ones in 89/90 are not comparable (people forget Sir Alex got Utd finishing 2nd in his first full season, it wasn't always some painful struggle). OGS has nowhere near enough credentials Sir Alex had. Sir Alex still remains the last guy to have taken the Scottish league title out of Glasgow and has beaten Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen of all teams. OGS really hasn't done much with all respect to Norwegian football. He has taken Cardiff out of the Premier League and more importantly didn't do well in the English second tier.
Woodward and the board do not take training
Woodward and the board do not employ on-field tactics
Woodward and the board do not manage the first team squad
Yes, they're responsible for their share of problems here by being generally inept, but they're largely not responsible for whats happening on the field (if you want to bring transfers into it, then yes). That is OGS. He's responsible for our shocking lack of attacking prowess, lack of playing style and partially the way how our squad is now. A good manager would get a tune out of their players and would get them playing in a certain way in which they'd win games.
Personally I just want us to play in an exciting way and I'll accept that results aren't always going to go our way and probably won't win trophies this season. If we were having Chelsea's season right now, I'd be happy and I wouldn't be calling for OGS' head... but we're not and we're having the season a lot of people thought Chelsea were going to have, with their transfer ban and their standout player leaving.
Comparing OGS' struggles to the notable Sir Alex ones in 89/90 are not comparable (people forget Sir Alex got Utd finishing 2nd in his first full season, it wasn't always some painful struggle). OGS has nowhere near enough credentials Sir Alex had. Sir Alex still remains the last guy to have taken the Scottish league title out of Glasgow and has beaten Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen of all teams. OGS really hasn't done much with all respect to Norwegian football. He has taken Cardiff out of the Premier League and more importantly didn't do well in the English second tier.
Obviously, yes. And it seems a lot of posters on here don't understand the basic concept of "respect". Doubt him, sure. Be convinced he's utterly out of his depth, sure. Call him names - no. It's very simple. We don't call him names (clueless cnut, coward, Gollum - yes, I have seen that on here, which is beyond disgusting) because he's Ole and has earned that much regardless of his managerial ability.
That's what we hope - yes. I don't feel confident enough to proclaim it's clearly the case, though. Or, more precisely, I don't know whether a) Ole and Ed are on the same page and that a genuine transition/rebuild is happening here, or b) whether such a transition/rebuild is happening with the right long-term objectives in place.
Which makes sense, whether the oh-so-funny "Brexit FC" feckwits like it or not.
We have, there is no doubt about that.
Great post! I feel much the same way. I’m starting to think he’s not up to task, but I still cringe when I see those things written about him on here. He’s a legend, a CL final matchwinner (1 of 3 CL we’ve won in the entire history of our club), a Fergie favorite, a humble and respectful person who loves this club, probably more than most of us.
The players are capable of more without doubt. They run hot and cold. Mystery injuries. Zero consistency. They're capable of playing good, one-touch football, but they don't.
I agree it looks like they literally don't even train together between games and the void in basic coaching is massive. Olé is out of his depth, but so I half the squad.
Overpaid prima Donnas.
The big question is who exactly is making these decisions? If it was Ole that decided to get rid of Lukaku and Sanchez without bringing in reinforcements then I'm afraid he deserves all the criticism that's falling his way.
I'm more inclined to think it was Eds doing with Ole under orders to rid of the squads top earners. I'm not saying it wasn't necessary but it makes me think that this long term plan they keep talking about is absolute BS. The club were lucky enough to have 4 or 5 youngsters who should of been sent out on loan but instead the club found a perfect excuse to save themselbes money by talking about the feckin United way and how youth is the way to go instead of doing the right thing and bringing in players who could actually make a difference to us instead of throwing our youth under the bus.
One thing is certain at the club. Ed has the reigns. I very much doubt that Ole will be given an open cheque book which is what's needed and because Ole has found his dream job he's not going to say a word. To be fair none of the 2 of them have a clue what their doing. It's not Oles fault he has zero experience but learning on the job is a recipe for disaster especially with Ed calling the shots.
Their not hot and cold though it’s shit every week, it’s just a combination of bad players and a bad manager.
Ole’s plan is counter attacking and that’s it he’s not training them to play any other way. Also don’t believe they are mystery injuries, Pogba is just injured simple as that. He played a couple of games where he was clearly unfit which has probably made it worse. Just bad decision making.
I do agree players are overpaid but so are Ole and Woodward. Everyone is being paid top rate for doing a job that isn’t even second rate.
Woodward and the board, however, do select the man who does all those things and then allow him to keep his job. Ultimately, if you have a problem with the team the buck stops with the manager. If you have a problem with the manager, the buck stops with the owner/board/CEO.
As would I..
Right....but it kinda definitely is though, isn’t it? I mean, you have almost explicitly just said precisely that!?
Why?... to all those questions?....
Why do you trust the manager of Cardiff and Molde to make the right decisions for Manchester United? Why is a “British core” inherently a sensible idea, in the modern age of continental football, where the two best teams in the league (and possiblyEurope) are the products of well traveled Spanish and German managers, and the ingenuity they’ve honed through their worldly experience?....
What on Earth makes you think that an unqualified manager trying to ape the imagined philosophy of a side he was in 10 + years ago, is a “positive, forwarding thinking outlook” ... as opposed to a painfully old fashioned one? Is Mike Basset a positive role model now?
From where I stand, nothing goes against the ideals of Alex Ferguson’s Manchester Utd, quite like ignoring the prevailing modern trends, in favour of slavish adherence to some backward looking romanticised idea of domestic tradition...
Fergie's success was predicted almost entirely on the willingness to constantly adapt!
Why!!? It’s been 8 games! Di Maria, Falcao, Memphis, Bailly, Lukaku, Mikhatarian, Schweinstiger and more were all considered good signings at this point in their respective careers!!
Why are all the pro-Ole peeps so desperate to proclaim our horrendous summer transfer window as some stealth success story, just because our meagre 3 signings (two of whom were scouted under Jose’s regime) have as yet to feck up enough to be considered notable?
"they" brought in a Jose target for a World Record fee, a potentially very good fullback to replace Ashley Young about 5 years too late...and a Championship winger who was by all accounts a complete gamble, that so far seems to be paying off (but again... only 8 games into the season!)
This idea that Ole is some kind of shrewd transfer genius because he made 3 somewhat so far decent signings, but is also entirely unresponsible for selling half of our attackers and failing to replace them, making our squad a threadbare mess, makes next to no sense! He's either responsible or he isn't... You can't give him credit for one, and excuse him from the other?... At least without being knowingly disingenuous....
I want him to succeed as much as anyone... I'd love to be proved wrong, I really would!... But i just can't escape the all encompassing concern that this is akin to a "Dalglish" moment... Nothing good rarely ever comes of such nostalgic, emotive appointments. It's precisely why Liverpool spent so long in the wilderness, FFS. And we used to laugh at them for it!
But this is what we are now... We’re now that side trying to dig our way out of a hole with desperate appeals to ‘tradition’ and ‘history’ ... and as far as I’m concerned, we’re completely fecked until we get over it.
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So, Rodgers' team is now in 2nd.
They lost their best defender and have just beaten Southampton 0-9.
Rodgers has been at LCFC, for less time than Ole has been with us.
BUT OLE NEEDS MORE TIME!!!
We are getting progressively worse, the longer he is here, but there are some who can't see this?
They lost their best defender and have just beaten Southampton 0-9.
Rodgers has been at LCFC, for less time than Ole has been with us.
BUT OLE NEEDS MORE TIME!!!
We are getting progressively worse, the longer he is here, but there are some who can't see this?
@Rood
So once he's signed a full first XI almost is when we can judge him? That's some incredible leeway. Wouldn't we want to see that he can actually coach a team first?
Best case scenario for me is that he can last the season as a placeholder by upping the performance levels quite a bit. It's a shame that we have people calling him all sorts, as it's both disrespectful to one of our own and it stains an otherwise obvious discussion.
Also, others have made this point repeatedly, but it bears repeating: changing to a long-term approach, cutting out the bad habits, hiring competent people, doesn't require Ole Gunnar Solskjaer to be manager of United. It is possible to still pursue those ideals without a specific manager.
So once he's signed a full first XI almost is when we can judge him? That's some incredible leeway. Wouldn't we want to see that he can actually coach a team first?
Best case scenario for me is that he can last the season as a placeholder by upping the performance levels quite a bit. It's a shame that we have people calling him all sorts, as it's both disrespectful to one of our own and it stains an otherwise obvious discussion.
Also, others have made this point repeatedly, but it bears repeating: changing to a long-term approach, cutting out the bad habits, hiring competent people, doesn't require Ole Gunnar Solskjaer to be manager of United. It is possible to still pursue those ideals without a specific manager.
0-9.
We talked about the long road goodbye for Mourinho and it is the same for Ole. He will be sacked, it is just a matter of when not if. It will feel like a long road because the performances won't get better nor will the results. I think it will happen maybe around the end of the year when the club is still around the relegation zone. Hopefully spurs will be stupid enough to sack Poch and we get him - I doubt it though. I suspect Carrick will be made caretaker manager and the long process of finding a new manager will begin again. I am dreading the rest of the season, the way things are going it feels like we will be flirting with relegation.
Is that right? I wonder what part of that delusional mental ward you're in...regardless please pass my regards to the staff. I have often heard that story about putting a bunch of monkeys in a room with typewriters and the odds that at some point they'll create a masterpiece.
It's nice to finally see the remaining odds, the reality, in action: the monkeys f*cking left and right in a room smeared with sh*t.
16 years at the club and you have the gall to come in here and say that. I'm embarrassed to know puppets with less sensibilities than those sh*t smeared monkeys are at the club now.
Firstly, it's interesting how you manage to compare the ''experienced players" of the two teams while conveniently ommiting Pogba, Maguire and De Gea from the same - our three experienced players who should be at their peak or thereabouts. As for experienced young players we have plenty - Martial, Rashford, Shaw, AWB, Periera, Mctominay, etc have all played a fair amount of football now. So no, we're not comparing incomparables. Were not comparing post Jose United squad with Pep's City squad. These are two managers that were mostly on a level footing. If anything, Lampard should be the one with a reason to complain - since he didn't have a transfer window to work with and he didn't have 15 odd games last season in addition to that to asess the squad.
On specifics - there's nothing much between the squads. Chelsea have a better midfield (partly due to Oles mismanagement). We have a better defence. We have a better keeper. And there shouldn't be much between the attacks.
However the second and more important and point is that they are a properly coached football team. Their manager has instantly made an impact and nearly from the first day his instructions were visibly apparent. And it's a great brand of football too - Lampard genuinely is developing youth (rather than just playing them) and he's genuinely attacking (rather than playiny jammy defensive football half the time).
Of course maybe this isnt a solid representation of Lampard (given its been what 9 games?) and his lack of quality will become apparent over time. But based on his start at Chelsea, he appears to be a manager with potential. On the other hand, Ole doesn't appear to be cut out for this level.
This
The reason he's still in the job is sacking now would make Woodward look like an incompetent to the Glazers, even they would have to question his footballing judgement.
No amount of time and wishful thinking will make OGS into anything apart from want he is, a second rate manager.
That's even more concerning then. Tell your good friend to get his finger out and do his job better.
Good one. And if true, no wonder we're fecked. We apparently have viewpoints like this within the club. The team is being managed hilariously badly and there is supposedly positivity everywhere from perveyors of mediocrity.Going to go out on a limb and say it isn't.
100% agree mate.
This is the absolute vital point here - of course there are many valid reasons to criticise but show some respect
The decision to let Lukaku and Sanchez go without any replacement was the major mistake of the summer - if Ole made that call then for sure he deserves the blame but I doubt it was down to him.
In the end I just think it comes down to a timing issue - I do not believe the summer business was done with the intention of saving money, but I do think that we needed to get Lukaku and Sanchez off the wage bill before getting their replacements (due to our strict 50% wage ratio) and unfortunately those deals came very late in the window. Looks like the club waited on Lukaku in particualr to maximise his sales value when they could have accepted a lower offer earlier. Now if that is the case then it is not Ole but the Glazers/Woodward who are to blame for these kinds of financial restrictions.
Now that the wage bill has been cut, I expect big spending in the next 2 windows - really we need them in the winter window but its usually a difficult time to do much business but we will surely bring in at least one if not 2 players
I think you missed the vital point - its not even about Ole specifically (in fact I said at the time that if we were going down that route then I would have preferred Giggs, Keane or even someone like Bruce !), is just because I think we need a club man at the helm to oversee a big reorganisation at the club. And this reorganisation is about far more than just football results and coaching - it links more to discussions about DoF etc.
Am I confident they will get it right? Not particularly to be honest, as I think Woodward needs to go or at least be downgraded, but I certainly think it would be even less likely to succeed without someone like Ole in there.
And I actually think its quite ridiculous all the things that Ole is being blamed for - hes just 1 part of a coaching team and 1 part of a whole transfer committee. I doubt he has the kind of influence and decision making power that LvG or Jose had.
However, For me the proposed long term plan of blooding youth and having a British core is something that I really want to see fulfilled, maybe its just a romantic notion and will still lead to failure but Im happy to see it given a try after failing with the plan of spending shitloads - I feel like that is more like the Manchester United that I can identify with and if we are throwing in a few academy prospects then I can deal with a crap performance in Belgrade or Alkmaar as its part of a bigger picture.
As far as I am concerned, we sold our soul to the football devil when we bought in Jose, I never wanted him and didnt like half the players he bought in - it was a team I never really identified with. Of course I still celebrated the highs like Europa League glory but when you go down that route then it can only be justified by winning the PL or CL, anything less means its not worth it.
and BTW I dont agree in the slightest that the players you list were all considered successes by this point in the season - this summer is the first time since Fergie left that all the signings have slotted straight into the first team and improved us significantly, of course there was a massive mistake to let Lukaku and Sanchez go without replacements but I dont blame Ole for that as I have detailed above.
Also you make out that we are a mess because we are going down the tradition and history route, but actually I would argue the opposite and say we are such a mess because we ignored those by bringing in someone like Jose and now we need a full reboot before we can go forward again.
I can't for a second understand what he's trying to achieve with this tactic. I don't think he knows either, just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.
No but I think at least 1 more window (ideally 2) is not too much to expect before being judged.
I dont even disagree with your last point - you will have heard me on the podcast saying that I would still take Pochettino.
Just what if the recent class change of shares for one of them is an indication that privately the Glazers are looking to offload the club in the near to mid term future?
That could support the idea that there are limited funds for transfers hence the net spend in the summer being around the £60m mark. The difference in prize money between qualifying for the Europa and the Champions league is around that amount I read not too long ago. There's no point or chance of them spending £200m+ to not be guaranteed qualifying for the CL and making such a loss.
Although I support the the idea of promoting from the academy United have never promoted so many players in such a short period of time as they are now. Maybe this is also a sign that it's 'use what we have' and hoping that they come good in order to avoid further spending because they want out in the next year or two.
I'm purely speculating here but if this is the case then I do sympathise with Ole and his management team. If he's not going to be provided with the tools to do the job he wants then it cannot be a surprise if he fails.
Because of his affinity with the club he will try his best anyway in these circumstances and that deserves some respect.
That could support the idea that there are limited funds for transfers hence the net spend in the summer being around the £60m mark. The difference in prize money between qualifying for the Europa and the Champions league is around that amount I read not too long ago. There's no point or chance of them spending £200m+ to not be guaranteed qualifying for the CL and making such a loss.
Although I support the the idea of promoting from the academy United have never promoted so many players in such a short period of time as they are now. Maybe this is also a sign that it's 'use what we have' and hoping that they come good in order to avoid further spending because they want out in the next year or two.
I'm purely speculating here but if this is the case then I do sympathise with Ole and his management team. If he's not going to be provided with the tools to do the job he wants then it cannot be a surprise if he fails.
Because of his affinity with the club he will try his best anyway in these circumstances and that deserves some respect.
It makes me so confused that Ole is getting so much slack, he's lucky he is who he is, or he'd not have a single backer.
One would draw from that statement that you also think Moyes should have had a few more windows?
I mean both are/were underperforming with their respective squads.
I really don't understand why some people are saying it's not due to him we are playing this way?
Of course it's down to him because he can't coach a team at all. It's down to his coaching and his management.
He got a team that came 2nd in the PL and now we are 15th? 14 on goal difference and yet some believe it's not his fault?
He should be sacked instantly and it's already too late.
Of course it's down to him because he can't coach a team at all. It's down to his coaching and his management.
He got a team that came 2nd in the PL and now we are 15th? 14 on goal difference and yet some believe it's not his fault?
He should be sacked instantly and it's already too late.
Talking in window intervals is unheard of. Each window is 6 months. This needs two to three more windows thing wasn't even a luxury extended to any of our previous managers when they started failing and rightly so. Giving a failing manager 6 more months and 200 more million to maybe see if he can turn it around is absurd. He has to earn it in the 30 to 40 games between windows
Rodgers, Lampard or Conte didn't have 3 windows. Conte and Lampard are 3 months in charge and everybody can see their signature. Ole is in charge one year without making any progress.
So only thing that he needs and deserves is to be fired. He failed
Yes the argument for more windows is for managers who are showing signs of success. It's not a hail Mary last resort you give to a failing manager. It's 6 freaking months the person could be getting to sink the club further. We can't turn off our sensibilities here just because we're too emotionally invested in seeing him succeed
I dont but that is a lot down to the fact that I think Moyes had a much better squad and nowhere near the mess we are in now
Yet I do still think Moyes was also failed in the transfer window by Woodward so it wasnt all his fault
I guess some teams do it with certain players at times but it has to be someone who just doesn't lose the ball whether he uses his strength or technique. If our club is serious, if Ole means business, he would demote Lingard to reserve football or simply put him on the selling list for January.
There is no upside by playing him over and over again, Lingard isn't suddenly transforming into a player who would be useful
Well I dont think any other manager was given such a thin squad so its not comparable
But he played his part in leaving us with such a thin squad? Ed will have no doubt let him down in recruitment a bit, but Ole was foolishly banging the kids drum thinking they'd make up the difference, which was shockingly naive.
Look at Leicester’s first XI look at how well they did in the transfer market and look at how few injuries they’ve had.
Leicester have benefitted from having a clear plan of the type of player they want.
Tielemans
Perez
Praet
Maddison
Soyuncu
Pereira
Past two seasons they’ve added those types of players. Not household names but young and good on the ball and improving!
All signed for around £20m except Tielemans £40m and Perez £30m but add to that a top quality striker in Vardy and the likes of Chilwell, Evans and Pickford you have the basis of solid footballing side.
If we recruited better we’d have no problems right now but our transfer strategy has choked our potential.