[Kag]

Smalling doing well in Italy will surprise absolutely nobody. Well, those who get the defending thing we do in football.

Smalling was and still is an excellent defender that is right up there with the very best when it comes to the defensive aspects of the game. He knows this, too. Which is why he pushed for a move to a club like Roma instead of dicking around on the bench for a year.

Smalling was never a problem here. He performed in a defence that didn’t concede too many goals, last season aside. The issue was, always has been and still is the fact we don’t score enough goals. This has been true ever since Ferguson left the club. Smalling and Jones (the Chuckle brothers) were scapegoats.

Those of us who quite rightly rated Smalling should feel somewhat vindicated.

 

[sullydnl]

As LVG noted years ago, Smalling was always the best defensively. The problem was what he did on the ball and that was a big problem. Once Maguire arrived he was no longer our best out and out defender either.

Unless he was happy being rooted to the bench most of the time....

 

[André Dominguez]

Our issues in attack is more down to injuries at the moment. While I never considered Smalling to be a good ball playing centre half, he seems to be enjoying more time on the ball as the pressing in Serie A generally isn't anywhere near as intense as the premier league. I don't think he has the capability to play passes from the back the way Van Dijk does or how Rio used to for you but that shouldn't be his prime concern.

We needed someone to help tighten up the back as our defence was shocking for a while and he's done just that.

A difficult season start for Roma for several reasons: new manager, tons of injuries, lost several players who made important contribution last seasons and the transfer activity was a lot of loans, which despite being smarter than buying those players without testing them, clearly shown that the transfer targets were not hit.

If you guys have the patience and support Paulo Fonseca, he will do a good job. He's a very good manager, demanding, with clear ideas and forward thinking. But it's going to be tough for him not only because of tiffosi expectations, also because his ideas are taking longer to ingrain into the players.

 

[ForeverRoma93]

A difficult season start for Roma for several reasons: new manager, tons of injuries, lost several players who made important contribution last seasons and the transfer activity was a lot of loans, which despite being smarter than buying those players without testing them, clearly shown that the transfer targets were not hit.

If you guys have the patience and support Paulo Fonseca, he will do a good job. He's a very good manager, demanding, with clear ideas and forward thinking. But it's going to be tough for him not only because of tiffosi expectations, also because his ideas are taking longer to ingrain into the players.

I think we're headed in the right direction and I like Paulo, he seems pragmatic and has improved us in terms of the defence fairly quickly.

It's a shame we've lost several players of real quality over the past 5 years, we'd have a cracking team had we been able to keep the likes of Allison, Pjanic, Naingollan, Salah etc. Understandable why they all left but it's one of those "what could have been".

Mind you, we've got some good upcoming players which is something. Top 4 and trophy would be brilliant this season and I want us to take the Europa League seriously.

 

[arnie_ni]

As LVG noted years ago, Smalling was always the best defensively. The problem was what he did on the ball and that was a big problem. Once Maguire arrived he was no longer our best out and out defender either.

Unless he was happy being rooted to the bench most of the time....

He would be playing beside maguire by now if he was still here i think

 

[Ekeke]

He would be playing beside maguire by now if he was still here i think

Yep thats the obvious answer. Its a shame we never had a CB better than Smalling to put him next to and see how they do. Obviously we had an aged Vidic before Smalling was ready to be starting each week but that didnt happen. And then he was our best CB having to be the senior man next to all the people we experimented with.

I'm not convinced Maguire is a better defender but he'd easily be the closest to having someone better than Smalling lining up next to him

 

[arnie_ni]

Yep thats the obvious answer. Its a shame we never had a CB better than Smalling to put him next to and see how they do. Obviously we had an aged Vidic before Smalling was ready to be starting each week but that didnt happen. And then he was our best CB having to be the senior man next to all the people we experimented with.

I'm not convinced Maguire is a better defender but he'd easily be the closest to having someone better than Smalling lining up next to him

He isnt a better defender, but he's a better player.

But for what lindeloff supposedly gives us when we have the ball, he loses us a lot more without it when compared to smalling. The rewards of his ball playing dont outweigh the fact he's so much worse at defending imo.

 

[Ekeke]

He isnt a better defender, but he's a better player.

But for what lindeloff supposedly gives us when we have the ball, he loses us a lot more without it when compared to smalling. The rewards of his ball playing dont outweigh the fact he's so much worse at defending imo.

I agree. Maguire is the better all round player, but not sure he's the better defender

 

[MadDogg]

As LVG noted years ago, Smalling was always the best defensively. The problem was what he did on the ball and that was a big problem. Once Maguire arrived he was no longer our best out and out defender either.

Defensively Smalling is still comfortably better than Maguire. Maguire's all round game makes him a better player though.

 

[A-man]

Defensively Smalling is still comfortably better than Maguire. Maguire's all round game makes him a better player though.

I understudy what people mean when they say things like that, but I don’t see how you can separate one “defensively” like that. Who is the best defender? Is it the one who concedes lowest amount of goals? Like yesterday, when Norwich applied pressure on the four at the back they passed around the ball likes they played against kids. That ball handling is very effective from a defensive/“not conceding goals” point of view, but I doubt anybody would call good defence. Good defence is often attributed defenders who are not skilled at preventing situations to happen, but instead skilled at sorting out the situations (good in the air, good tacklers, good at clearing). Then comes the next step. Defenders who are good at “defending” but not so good with the ball, they are not good at controlling the ball but instead they just save the situation and two seconds later the ball is back with the opposite team. In my mind controlling the ball is actually very good defending as if you don’t give it back, it is good from a not-conceding-pov.

Look at 93:20 in Norwich-United if you have the possibility and you will see what I mean. First Maguire heads it away randomly and back to a Norwich player. The next header from Lindelof is not random, it has a purpose. I am sure people would say Maguire’s heading was better defending, but imo controlling the ball is better. (I am not saying Lindelof is better, but it illustrates how so called ball handling skills is good from a defensive POV)

 

[Ekeke]

I understudy what people mean when they say things like that, but I don’t see how you can separate one “defensively” like that. Who is the best defender? Is it the one who concedes lowest amount of goals? Like yesterday, when Norwich applied pressure on the four at the back they passed around the ball likes they played against kids. That ball handling is very effective from a defensive/“not conceding goals” point of view, but I doubt anybody would call good defence. Good defence is often attributed defenders who are not skilled at preventing situations to happen, but instead skilled at sorting out the situations (good in the air, good tacklers, good at clearing). Then comes the next step. Defenders who are good at “defending” but not so good with the ball, they are not good at controlling the ball but instead they just save the situation and two seconds later the ball is back with the opposite team. In my mind controlling the ball is actually very good defending as if you don’t give it back, it is good from a not-conceding-pov.

Look at 93:20 in Norwich-United if you have the possibility and you will see what I mean. First Maguire heads it away randomly and back to a Norwich player. The next header from Lindelof is not random, it has a purpose. I am sure people would say Maguire’s heading was better defending, but imo controlling the ball is better. (I am not saying Lindelof is better, but it illustrates how so called ball handling skills is good from a defensive POV)

The best defender is the one who is best at defending.

The best midfielder is the best at midfielding. Not the best goalscorer or defender

The best forward is the best at forward play. Not closing down or keeping the ball like a CM

The best goalkeeper is the best at goalkeeping. Not the goalkeeper who scores great freekicks

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He's been brilliant since we got him, hopefully we'll get him on a permanent basis

Good to hear that smalling is doing well. He's a very good defender.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The best defender is the one who is best at defending.

The best midfielder is the best at midfielding. Not the best goalscorer or defender

The best forward is the best at forward play. Not closing down or keeping the ball like a CM

The best goalkeeper is the best at goalkeeping. Not the goalkeeper who scores great freekicks

Yup. To be honest I don't even see what Lindelofs supposed brilliance on the ball has actually given. I don't mind the players and he's doing just fine right now but there's no chance I'd let smalling go who was the best defender at the club.

 

[A-man]

The best defender is the one who is best at defending.

The best midfielder is the best at midfielding. Not the best goalscorer or defender

The best forward is the best at forward play. Not closing down or keeping the ball like a CM

The best goalkeeper is the best at goalkeeping. Not the goalkeeper who scores great freekicks

It is not really that simple, because what is defending? If you have a definition, please let me know.

Some say Smalling is better than Maguire at defending(by miles some even add). Does that mean if Smalling played instead of Maguire, United would concede even less goals? I absolutely not think so. This season we see a calmness at the back we never saw last season. Instead of hoofing it randomly they keep possession and possession is one of the best way to not concede goals.

Then of course the qualities of the defender must suit the team.

 

[Ekeke]

It is not really that simple, because what is defending? If you have a definition, please let me know.

Some say Smalling is better than Maguire at defending(by miles some even add). Does that mean if Smalling played instead of Maguire, United would concede even less goals? I absolutely not think so. This season we see a calmness at the back we never saw last season. Instead of hoofing it randomly they keep possession and possession is one of the best way to not concede goals.

Then of course the qualities of the defender must suit the team.

Defending is acting while the other team has the ball, in ways that helps stop them scoring a goal. Its pretty simple really. It has nothing to do with when you have the ball because then you don't need to defend. You need to attack

 

[dev1l]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-expected-to-return-after-roma-loan-expires

 

[A-man]

Defending is acting while the other team has the ball, in ways that helps stop them scoring a goal. Its pretty simple really. It has nothing to do with when you have the ball because then you don't need to defend. You need to attack

That is your definition. Others may say it is avoiding conceding goals. That is stopping them from scoring goals by any means necessary, possession included.

 

[Ekeke]

That is your definition. Others may say it is avoiding conceding goals. That is stopping them from scoring goals by any means necessary, possession included.

Thats like saying being a striker is about scoring more goals than the opponent, therefore tackling and winning the ball to break up opponent attacks and stopping them scoring goals is part of being a great striker

 

[A-man]

Thats like saying being a striker is about scoring more goals than the opponent, therefore tackling and winning the ball to break up opponent attacks and stopping them scoring goals is part of being a great striker

It’s not really the same. But many people would agree with me that one measure of a good defender is that he prevents goals from the opponent.

 

[Ekeke]

It’s not really the same. But many people would agree with me that one measure of a good defender is that he prevents goals from the opponent.

Yes, by defending. Not by passing the ball

 

[izec]

I dont miss him, the CBs arent our problem. He is getting older, so should enjoy the easier league that suits him

 

[manunited1919]

As LVG noted years ago, Smalling was always the best defensively. The problem was what he did on the ball and that was a big problem. Once Maguire arrived he was no longer our best out and out defender either.

Unless he was happy being rooted to the bench most of the time....

I would disagree with that statement. I would rate Smalling better at defending than Maguire. We have already seen Maguire commit a few defensive mistakes this season that Smalling wouldn’t have made. I do think Maguire will be a good signing, and I would agree a statement such as Maguire being a better overall player, as Maguire is much more complete.

I would have liked to see Ole go for a Maguire/Smalling partnership, but I think Ole bought the hype about Smalling being deficient and made the decision to bench hm and wanted to limit Smalling’s playing time. Too bad, because Maguire/Smalling would be a formidable duo.

 

[A-man]

Yes, by defending. Not by passing the ball

One defender just hoofs it or heads it to a cornet while another defender can control the ball. If the opponent put pressure on him one defender panicks and hoofs it straight in to the arms of the opponent team, while another defender stays calm and keeps possession.
For me being able to control situations like that is part of good defending. And it is effective as well, if we talk about not conceding goals.

 

[Ekeke]

One defender just hoofs it or heads it to a cornet while another defender can control the ball. If the opponent put pressure on him one defender panicks and hoofs it straight in to the arms of the opponent team, while another defender stays calm and keeps possession.
For me being able to control situations like that is part of good defending. And it is effective as well, if we talk about not conceding goals.

All defenders hoof the ball at times and pass at others

 

[caid]

Yup. To be honest I don't even see what Lindelofs supposed brilliance on the ball has actually given. I don't mind the players and he's doing just fine right now but there's no chance I'd let smalling go who was the best defender at the club.

The problem with Smalling's passing was he moved the ball on at a fairy pedestrian pace to the nearest, most obvious player. It made life more difficult for the next guy receiving the ball to do anything progressive with it. Lindelof can and will play a pass first time. Its a pretty low bar but it helps tbh.

 

[Ekeke]

The problem with Smalling's passing was he moved the ball on at a fairy pedestrian pace to the nearest, most obvious player. It made life more difficult for the next guy receiving the ball to do anything progressive with it. Lindelof can and will play a pass first time. Its a pretty low bar but it helps tbh.

Sometimes. Sometimes he doesnt.

 

[caid]

Sometimes. Sometimes he doesnt.

That seemed the only particular problem with his passing to me. I dont remember it being that inaccurate or him giving the ball away at all often. I dont remember him being tackled and giving the ball away ... ever really. It was unambitious, telegraphed and played at a safe pace. Which isn't the worst thing in the world but i can understand how various coaches wouldn't want to start him every week.

 

[Ekeke]

That seemed the only particular problem with his passing to me. I dont remember it being that inaccurate or him giving the ball away at all often. I dont remember him being tackled and giving the ball away ... ever really. It was unambitious, telegraphed and played at a safe pace. Which isn't the worst thing in the world but i can understand how various coaches wouldn't want to start him every week.

I mean Lindelof. sometimes he'll play it first time more often than not he wont

 

[JPB]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-expected-to-return-after-roma-loan-expires

Someone should be shot in the face for letting him go. Bring him back now and send Lindelof to Rome.

 

[peridigm]

Someone should be shot in the face for letting him go. Bring him back now and send Lindelof to Rome.

Played 6 games for Roma but we should bring him back?

 

[Ekeke]

Played 6 games for Roma but we should bring him back?

We've had 9 players play more than 6 games and they didnt move to a new country with a different language

 

[Rozay]

Smalling is an excellent defender, and a much better player than Victor Lindelöf. He has become a scapegoat of this new-age non-defending defender nonsense.

Southgate started it all off, and is a fecking hypocrite as he has replaced him with a player who is worse on the ball in Michael Keane.

 

[Bebestation]

It's just confusing - Smalling & Maguire in a partnership has the ability to compete with the first or second best central defensive partnership in the Premier League.

Such a simple mistake to make.

Do Loan recall's actually exist or is that just video games? Because who knows - if we end up with a makeshift manager mid way through the season then I don't see many who would sell Smalling to Kepp Bailly or Lindelof.

 

[simonhch]

Someone should be shot in the face for letting him go. Bring him back now and send Lindelof to Rome.

Smalling is an excellent defender, and a much better player than Victor Lindelöf. He has become a scapegoat of this new-age non-defending defender nonsense.

Southgate started it all off, and is a fecking hypocrite as he has replaced him with a player who is worse on the ball in Michael Keane.

It's just confusing - Smalling & Maguire in a partnership has the ability to compete with the first or second best central defensive partnership in the Premier League.

Such a simple mistake to make.

Do Loan recall's actually exist or is that just video games? Because who knows - if we end up with a makeshift manager mid way through the season then I don't see many who would sell Smalling to Kepp Bailly or Lindelof.

This is just the classic, age old example of players getting infinitely better in their absence. Until they hit the pitch, and everyone remembers why we all thought they were shite in the first place. Smalling has been at United for a long time now and he’s been largely gash the entire time. He had a few decent runs of form, mainly under Van Gaal, but in reality he’s never been good enough.

The fact he has some of the worst footballing skills, with the ball at his feet, seen in the top flight, is what hampers him more than anything. This whole playing out from the back phenomenon, is suicide with a player like Smalling; and it’s no surprise he was dumped by England, and then United.

Lindelof, on the other hand, loses a couple of 50/50 headers - conveniently the one thing Smalling is good at - and suddenly he’s shite and Smalling is the reincarnation of Beckenbaur. Fact is, Lindelof is a much better footballer and was one of our best players last season, through a bleak period. His partnership with Maguire has serious potential. Whereas Smalling is a vestige of a past era, and his time has gone.

He’s not the answer to anything, except if the question is “which footballer does the best impression of a drunken new born deer on ice?”

 

[Bebestation]

This is just the classic, age old example of players getting infinitely better in their absence. Until they hit the pitch, and everyone remembers why we all thought they were shite in the first place. Smalling has been at United for a long time now and he’s been largely gash the entire time. He had a few decent runs of form, mainly under Van Gaal, but in reality he’s never been good enough.

The fact he has some of the worst footballing skills, with the ball at his feet, seen in the top flight, is what hampers him more than anything. This whole playing out from the back phenomenon, is suicide with a player like Smalling; and it’s no surprise he was dumped by England, and then United.

Lindelof, on the other hand, loses a couple of 50/50 headers - conveniently the one thing Smalling is good at - and suddenly he’s shite and Smalling is the reincarnation of Beckenbaur. Fact is, Lindelof is a much better footballer and was one of our best players last season, through a bleak period. His partnership with Maguire has serious potential. Whereas Smalling is a vestige of a past era, and his time has gone.

He’s not the answer to anything, except if the question is “which footballer does the best impression of a drunken new born deer on ice?”

Sorry but this is complete false. I didn't want Smalling to go from the start & from the moment Ole got rid of him instead of Bailly, Rojo & Jones - I was left literally startled.

I've seen enough good seasons from Smalling under many Managers to know the lad is a good enough player for United in the current state of the club.

I've seen good seasons of Smalling under SAF, LVG, Jose & possibly games under Ole - I've seen absolutely nothing consistent of Lindelof & if you think he is a good defender that's better than Smalling then fair enough.

However, I've seen an absolute average defender who is lost defensively throughout 90 minutes, isn't great attacking & is genuinely scared of the football.

I don't even need to bring Smalling in to play.

 

[MikeKing]

However, I've seen an absolute average defender who is lost defensively throughout 90 minutes, isn't great attacking & is genuinely scared of the football.

He is weak as well. People talking about defenders being good at defending by contributing in an attacking sense. Smalling does that, more so than Lindelof. First off he actually scores goals on set pieces. Also, he is physically imposing so he wins most duels and one on ones, often contributing to keeping our attacking shape, and continue the pressure. With Lindelof we concede possession a lot, and very unnecessarily. Not just from risky misplaced passes, but simply because he avoids duels. If he gets in a physical battle he'll lose the ball, or just play it out for a throw in. He does it all the time, when he should be winning the ball and getting it forward. @A-man That is how traditional, strong defensive attributes in a player can be used to benefit the team in an attacking sense.

There's levels to what certain players can bring in certain setups. It is best to evaluate them individually for that reason, without the limiting context and different buzzwords flying around.

 

[SweetRightFoot]

Massive revisionism going on here by people who I suspect haven't been watching him.

He's a shite footballer who cannot play in any top team. Mourinho specifically instructed our players not to pass to him in the EL final vs Ajax and it paid off. Sure he's taken a step down and put in some good performances but I've also read he's been a liability at times. He'd get eaten up in the PL if he comes back because every year more smaller teams play pressing football while he will get a yard slower while always still having a brainfart or a red card in him. Great athelete but not a great football player. Some of you geniuses on here saying he's better than Maguire need your heads looking at.

He's played 6 games and has had 2 clean sheets against the mighty Lecce currently in 16th with 8 points after 9 games and the irrepressible Sampdoria who are rock bottom 20th with 4 from 9. Setting Serie A alight just like Lukaku I see!

 

[Ekeke]

Massive revisionism going on here by people who I suspect haven't been watching him.

He's a shite footballer who cannot play in any top team. Mourinho specifically instructed our players not to pass to him in the EL final vs Ajax and it paid off. Sure he's taken a step down and put in some good performances but I've also read he's been a liability at times. He'd get eaten up in the PL if he comes back because every year more smaller teams play pressing football while he will get a yard slower while always still having a brainfart or a red card in him. Great athelete but not a great football player. Some of you geniuses on here saying he's better than Maguire need your heads looking at.

He's played 6 games and has had 2 clean sheets against the mighty Lecce currently in 16th with 8 points after 9 games and the irrepressible Sampdoria who are rock bottom 20th with 4 from 9. Setting Serie A alight just like Lukaku I see!

Massive revisionism in this post by a person I suspect hasnt watched him

 

[lysglimt]

Maguires biggest strength when it comes to defending is his ability to clear balls from crosses, both high and low. He is exceptionally good at reading the game and position himself correctly. In that respect he is miles better than Smalling.

In a 1 vs 1 duel - Smalling is better of course.

 

[simonhch]

Sorry but this is complete false. I didn't want Smalling to go from the start & from the moment Ole got rid of him instead of Bailly, Rojo & Jones - I was left literally startled.

I've seen enough good seasons from Smalling under many Managers to know the lad is a good enough player for United in the current state of the club.

I've seen good seasons of Smalling under SAF, LVG, Jose & possibly games under Ole - I've seen absolutely nothing consistent of Lindelof & if you think he is a good defender that's better than Smalling then fair enough.

However, I've seen an absolute average defender who is lost defensively throughout 90 minutes, isn't great attacking & is genuinely scared of the football.

I don't even need to bring Smalling in to play.

It’s not false though is it? He’s terrible with the ball at his feet and under the press, which is how we like to play now and how most teams set up against us. He’s useless playing out from the back. He’s better than Bailly, who probably only stayed because he got injured again. And he’s better than Rojo, who probably only stayed because he’s more adept in a back three and can play left back. Jones is just better, albeit more injury prone. Pretty much every manager we’ve had has preferred Jones to Smalling until injuries kicked in.

I really don’t get this clamour for Smalling. This is the best back four we’ve had since Fergie. Four defenders who Can both defend and play. Defence has looked good to me. The midfield and attack has been the problem.

Whatever our problems, Smalling is not the answer. He doesn’t fit our style of play and hopefully will have a good season and be sold for a good price.