There you go again, too lazy to put an intelligent counter argument together and just resort to lazy insults. Wow!
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
Read what I posted or are you only reading the parts you want to defend yourself? Lazy argument and lazy comprehension.
I have a horrible feeling that people will look back on this thread 3 years from now and wonder what we were thinking.
I love Ole and the results have picked up. However, aside from pressing I don't see any actual style of play and let's not forget we've lost to some dross this year... And we've lost lost many times.
Reunite Poch with Paul Mitchell as director of football and you have a seriously strong managment team going into the future. We won't do it of course, but I think we'll regret it.
I love Ole and the results have picked up. However, aside from pressing I don't see any actual style of play and let's not forget we've lost to some dross this year... And we've lost lost many times.
Reunite Poch with Paul Mitchell as director of football and you have a seriously strong managment team going into the future. We won't do it of course, but I think we'll regret it.
he's nothing special. I would take Jose or LVG back over him any day. Solskjaer is better too. let him go to Bayern or wherever, i don't care. Just keep him away from United.
It's not an odd post at all , you are using the last 6 months of his tenure and I am using all of it . Anyone who watches the premier League regularly can see the magnificent job that Poch did at Southampton and spurs . The whole not winning trophies argument is so dumb it's not even worth replying to
In what way??
Hopefully he wants a bit of a holiday before returning back to work. That gives us enough time to see what Ole is really about this season before moving.
At nicknames I'm guessing.
I've seen you write this about 10 times in different threads.
Which transfers away has Ole done that he should not have done? Darmian,Valencia and Sanchez were utterly useless and Lukaku wanted away. Smalling being better than Lindelof is debatable and even then hes just on loan so we can bring him back if we want
Literally everyone saw we needed reinforcements in more areas than defense, but no one knows the exact reason why we dont got more players in the summer, but there have been no reports of Ole turning down anyone we had lined up
Yet you did. And we have a coach who only won at Molde, yet we use the Cardiff experience as a stick to beat him with.
We need a coach who can at least look like he can get us a title. If you think Poch is your man, fair enough. He blew it big time in 2 finals IMO.
Keep flying the Poch flag though, it's amusing
Give him the job next summer before he replaces Zidane at Madrid.
A lot of people are gonna be surprised when Poch inevitably wins trophies at bigger clubs than Spurs.
It really isn't as amusing as believing that Ole vs Poch is even a contest in any way or form . If ole got sacked tomorrow he wouldn't get another pl job , might not even get a championship job while Pochettino will have tons of suitors from across Europe
The love in for Ole (the manager) is strong in some. I wonder how the same moody and blunt Jose would've faired if he had scored a CL winning goal for us in his past.
Surely managing is a results business and that is why Poch, Jose amongst many others have lost their jobs. Ole on the other hand...
Look, I told you we have discussed this several times already, so I'm honestly far from being interested in repeated the same discussion with the same poster again but if you insist I will just repeat what I told you anyway. Just because you don't rate Fellaini, Smalling, Lukaku and Herrera it doesn't mean they weren't viable squad options, and let's imagine the miracle they are all shite or asked to leave at the same time, he knew all this from the get go and yet decided to splash the entire budget on defense and spend 80m on a CB. We had spent 150. What were you expecting United to spend, 300? He decided to prioritize the defense and put the most money in Maguire, saying himself to the official website after this signing that he was his top priority target.
I found the argument of not bringing more players is bizarre when we decided to spend 130m alone on a CB and RB, while our budget every summer since LvG took over has been usually in the same range of 150. We weren't going to spend plus 200m this summer. We didn't spend 50m ffs. After spending 150m we weren't going to pay much more for any upcoming player. We just spread the money poorly and whose responsibility is that?
It's Ole's responsibility. He chose the defense as his prime target and favored it on midfield and attack. We decide to splash the cash on Maguire instead of Longstaff, and were trying to get a backup option only for striker position in the last few days in the window.
Maybe if Ole has any sense of squad building he would have looked at the squad and thought it will be more logical to keep Smalling for one more year, sign Maguire next summer and focus the budget on a midfielder and forward better. Instead of those 80m spent on Maguire we could have spent 50m on Longstaff and spent maybe 30-40m to get a decent striker option, but nope, we threw our entire budget at Maguire.
Now, we can talk as much as we want if prioritizing the defense is right or not but it won't change the fact Ole isn't blameless at all for how the summer window has been planned. He thought the defense is more important and urgent issue than the midfield and preferred to focus spending on it first then trying to get a cheap backup striker by the end of day. I doubt Woodward knew a shite about football to think which position is more urgent to reinforce.
One point clear is after spending 150m including 80m it's fantasy to expect another 50-60m for another player in summer, never "more" players. Ole should have known that and yet he took his decision. It's his own responsibility.
Aye I heard that last night too.Harry Redknapp on SSN just then basically said Poch thought he had the United job last year and did speak to the club
I've had the same line of thinking about the Cafe for a while.It's one thing debating - that's what a forum is for, but why are you guys so aggressive spouting fecking football opinions, ffs?
Calling people names, or grouping people together and calling them clueless or morons doesn't give your opinions any more validity.
This is a tough spot for United.
They have only recently given the job to OGS and cannot just replace him because Poch has suddenly become available.
I will back OGS until the cows come home ( even my son is called Oli as he was born in July 99
) but in fairness he has done a average job so far but this season he has been without two crucial players in Martial and Pogba for most part, take those two out and we are left with a bang average squad so im willing to see how he does this season with them coming back and possible new signings in January.
But the lure of Poch is huge, and Id be quite happy if United asked Poch to have a sabbatical until the end of the season and if OGS has us finishing 6th or 7th without showing too much promise going forward then Id sadly let him go and give Poch his chance.
Would Poch even wait on United until the summer? Im not sure, especially if OGS does ok and we decide to keep him anyway.
They have only recently given the job to OGS and cannot just replace him because Poch has suddenly become available.
I will back OGS until the cows come home ( even my son is called Oli as he was born in July 99
) but in fairness he has done a average job so far but this season he has been without two crucial players in Martial and Pogba for most part, take those two out and we are left with a bang average squad so im willing to see how he does this season with them coming back and possible new signings in January.But the lure of Poch is huge, and Id be quite happy if United asked Poch to have a sabbatical until the end of the season and if OGS has us finishing 6th or 7th without showing too much promise going forward then Id sadly let him go and give Poch his chance.
Would Poch even wait on United until the summer? Im not sure, especially if OGS does ok and we decide to keep him anyway.
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I see him back in Spain. Would not mind him here but if we passed on him for Ole last year he’s probably not thinking highly of Woodward.
Yeah man. Not sure why people do it. Especially when it's clear neither party is going to change the other posters opinion
But oh well.Of all the straw cluthing i have seen, this one has to be the worst one. If someone relegates Bayern or Juventus, thats clearly a lot, lot worse than someone going down with Norwich, Cardiff or Derby. Cardiff were in absolute meltdown when Ole took over, he failed to save them and Pochettionos career at Espanyol was not that great either as he too got them relegated, but in both cases its absurd to put the blame square on the manager. Those were struggling clubs
In terms of medals in England, Poch and Ole has the exact same amount, the difference is that the former has been here for 5x as long. This whole nonsense of "PL-proven" this and PL-proven that is such a bore. Klopp or Pep was not PL-proven, so clearly they had no chance in England right? Same goes for all these up and coming managers in Germany and Holland. Just because they manage in a different country does not make their experience irrelevant
I thoroughly dislike these kinda comments. Losing a final where your opponent is the clear favorite is not "blowing it big time."
He faced superior teams and superior managers in both finals. Doesn't mean he blew it.
None of us have any idea what Ole was told and how big his budget was, and while Maguire indeed was expensive, that is what you have to pay for English internationals. We have lacked a leader in the back since Rio/Vidic left and Maguire brings just that. Much better to spend 80 on one good CB instead of spending 3x30 on mediocre ones like we have the last years.
AWB was also expensive, but well worth the money. His defensive record is the best in Europe and if he can improve his offensive game we're gone have RB settled for 6-7 years at least. Considering we have had Young and Valencia there its a big, big upgrade
And considering we sold Lukaku, we did not really spend all that much (around 90 million). Considering Jose got to spend 130 and 150 his two first years, Ole did not splash around cash like some madman either. If anything, the squad this summer was in much greater need of investment than it was under Jose, with Herrera gone (due to Woody fecking around) and Mata and Matic clearly starting to fade badly.
If all we get to spend each year is below 100 million net, this rebuild is going to take ages, regardless of who is manager.
Liverpool and klopp were serial final losers at that point. That final was there to be won for spurs.
Come on
Were they not?
Lukaku was sold in the last day of the market. Hardly any effective on the 150m spent before selling him. Not like we cashed on him first before signing Maguire and AWB. He left on deadline.
Ole got a 150m spending transfer business, the same budget LVG and Mourinho got in all their seasons (bar Mourinho last one due to falling with the board), so he wasn't treated any different from the rest. We weren't going to spend 200-300m in a summer, we didn't under previous 3 managers and we won't under next manager either.
It's his job as a coach to choose which players are more urgently needed, deserve to put the money in and get quickly and earlier while leaving the less important positions later on to see if there's enough money to buy them or not. He did made his choice. We splashed 80m on Maguire. So I don't get how he can't responsible for the state of the squad or how the summer market went on. I'm not going to talk about if Maguire deserves his price or not, if his choice was right or not, but it's his own business and he will take full responsibility for it. Blaming Ed alone is very naive when we know he knows feck all about how to build a team.
Liverpool hands down better than Spurs, especially a Spurs with a not 100% Kane
Where does Poch go next?
Madrid?, United? what about an outside bet, he takes the rest of this season off, then rocks up at...City! Next year???
Peps been looking pe** off lately fed up with all the hassle with UEFA and that City fans are not interested in CL success and it seems never will be, his wife has already returned home and after the Liverpool match, he decides to depart end of this season... well we can dream!
Madrid?, United? what about an outside bet, he takes the rest of this season off, then rocks up at...City! Next year???
Peps been looking pe** off lately fed up with all the hassle with UEFA and that City fans are not interested in CL success and it seems never will be, his wife has already returned home and after the Liverpool match, he decides to depart end of this season... well we can dream!
Tabloid analysis of looking at headline narratives rather than the actual teams and game.
His team looked scared and not ready to fight for a trophy at all. Probably the most tame performance I've seen in a final for a long long time.
This thread is exactly the same as the ones we had when Klopp left Dortmund and LVG was doing shit but had a few wins just around that time.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jurgen-klopp.403511/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/klopp-confirmed-liverpool-manager.409810/
Here is clearly a talented manager we'd have died to have last summer, but he's had a bad season and everyone wants to stick with the plucky amatuer who was a fan favourite as a player.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jurgen-klopp.403511/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/klopp-confirmed-liverpool-manager.409810/
Here is clearly a talented manager we'd have died to have last summer, but he's had a bad season and everyone wants to stick with the plucky amatuer who was a fan favourite as a player.
he's funnier and he has a better accent.
Pretty much, will Woodward make the same mistake twice?
He'll obviously win trophies at a big club eventually, its weird that people think he's incapable of it.
Had they not lost every klopp final? Even when favourites?
Tabloid analysis of looking at headline narratives rather than the actual teams and game.
Spurs had a massive chance to put the pressure on them and win that final
This is a fairer argument, although I still think the 2007 final was worse up from both sides up until Mascherano went off. Even Maldini was was struggling to trap simple passes.
I think we did well to pull spurs down to the level where we where happy to play once we went 1 up and spurs simply didn't have it in them to take back control of the game. You'd hope for more from your team, but I don't see it as a game that was exactly there for the taking.
Someone I hope we are seriously looking at come the end of the season. I want Ole to succeed but definitely cannot place all our chips on him.
Just because the Lukaku deal was finalized on deadline day does not change the fact that everyone in the club knew he was leaving and we were getting a nice slump of money for him. Oles net spend this summer is still 60 and 50 million less than Jose spent his first two years
Honestly, you thinking we should have spent the Maguire money elsewhere and kept Smalling around is completely fair. That being said, i am pretty confident that Ole was promised more than one window to set this ship straight and if the demand was "Top 4 or sack" he would have spent differently, though i think its exactly that line of thinking that has got us in this pinch anyway. I also think 90 million net spend is way to small a budget to work with considering the state of our squad.