Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Giggsyking

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30 points

We got only 5 points

:lol:
 

Alabaster Codify7

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It's one thing to have a long-term plan and stick to it and it's a whole different deal to sit and watch the band play with a glass of wine in hand while the Titanic is slowly sinking. And while i'm not sure we have reached the point of no return for Solskjaer, i can't help but fear that we're heading toward this direction.

In my post, i admitted that Solskjaer's intentions are noble and the plan, in its basic principles, is as good as any we had before. In fact, it resonates with a huge portion of the fanbase (even Ole-out posters who crave for wholesome changes in the squad and a new approach) and given the universal (or close to it) dissatisfaction for Woodward and the way he's been dealing with the footballing matters of the club, it could have bought Solskjaer a lot more credit.

The reason it hasn't is because he has failed to (yet) produce anything sustainable on a week by week basis. Something to hold on to besides the sporadic wins against better sides who will take the initiative and allow us to play on the counter. How many goals have we created by stealing the ball high on the pitch and hitting the opposition between transitions? On how many occasions have we managed to pin down opponents by collecting second balls or regaining possession high up the pitch? Because these should be the benefits of high-pressing tactics and a demanding pre-season. And these were the things Solskjaer told us to expect from him. It's also OK to give youth a chance and keep a thin squad because you want to wait until the right players become available. I can get behind that, especially after seeing the club waste millions on players who offered next to nothing. But when one injury (Martial) changes roles in the rest of our attacking options (Marcus centrally, James on the left, Andreas as a RW) and another (Pogba) makes us completely unable to move the ball through the lines with purpose and urgency (which is the only gameplan we have atm), you look like someone who hasn't put much thought in how the season is going to pan out.

I'm mentioning such things because, to me, they're as important as the good things Solskjaer is trying to instil. And in my book, this is the number one reason managers are being paid the big bucks: To plan out the season, work with worst-case scenarios and come up with tactical solutions that will allow them to avoid deadends when things really go south. I know where you're coming from. The need for this club to become a family again, the need for the first team to develop a central core of players who will carry the team through thick and thin, the need for the fans to feel that the United we have known is close to being materialized again. These are traits we should look in our manager.

I'd be OK with writing this season (and the next one too) off, if by "writing off" we mean that we're not going to see any title challenge and it will be a 50/50 chance of us achieving CL qualification. And, believe it or not, this is what Solskjaer was suggesting at the end of last season too. That's where he set the bar himself (look for his presser after GW38 last season on YT). What we're seeing right now doesn't look good. And with Woodward in charge, it will probably not become better any time soon. Solskjaer is on his own and he has to come up with some answers for his own sake.

And if we're being honest here, the fact that all clubs except for Liverpool and Leicester are either going through the motions or are in a transitional state like us, makes things look much better than they actually are. No way we could have been in sight of CL qualification with a "cemented" top-four after losing/drawing so many games. And other clubs, like Spurs and Chelsea, seem to be ahead of us in the race of reinventing themselves. This situation bears resemblance with LvG's first season when we thought we were going places (wins in big games, good form in the final stages of the season) but it was just everyone else around us being mediocre or just good at best that made us look better than we were. The difference is that they are better run than us and they eventually found their way.

I can also understand the argument that sacking and then finding his replacement is more complex than it seems. For instance, take a look at Poch. If he agrees to take the United job on the premise that he will have to work with these players and squeeze every ounce of quality he can get from them, he'll be a dead man walking in no time. After all, the reasons that made him lose the plot at Spurs (no backing in the transfer market) will be ever-present at United. And Allegri is a master tactician but he's not a miracle worker. On the other hand, Solskjaer must do a bit better. We have to do a bit better on the pitch. Because if we admit that there's absolutely nothing he can do (completely and utterly write the season off), then there's no reason to keep him. Is there? Because the few good players we have or will get will always search for greener pastures and the rebuilding will never end unless we stumble upon the new Class of '92.

Just my two cents on the matter.

Yep. Woodward has probably already primed the shareholders and sponsors for a lean season or two. But by 'lean', believe you me, Woodward means lingering around 4th-6th and possibly, POSSIBLY winning a domestic cup while we get our house in order.

He doesnt and didnt mean finishing closer to 10th and turning in our worst performance in PL history while breaking embarassing records on the regular. And the shareholders and sponsors will be having some very awkward questions prepared for him when they next meet. So guess what that means? Ol' Eddie boy will need to show these disgruntled customers something to prove he will also not tolerate these type of results. And we all know how that goes.
 

Forevergiggs1

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So, 2nd lost game last 10 Premier League games. This time because of two individuall errors. I know it is Watford and it looked bad but comon. Results will go up and down this season. We all know that. Now we lost and suddenly there is witchhunt again. Talk about knee jerk reactions.
Knee jerk reactions are from people who actually think Ole is good enough to win us titles. After 2 great wins their faith was cemented. Didn't matter the tumescent football we've all been accustomed to seeing for the greater part of Oles tenure. That small detail doesn't seem to matter to people like yourself.
 

BlueHaze

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If he won the title then I wouldn't care less what he did in his second season. You can mot deny that he's gone in at Inter and immediately turned them into challengers something United haven't been since Fergie left. And with this current mentality of settling for mid table shit then I can't see anything improving for us for a long time.
No, there is no denying he is a good manager but I don't agree he would be a good choice for us particularly. He would fall out with Ed within 6 months.
 

*Riley*

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Yesterday our front 4 held position while the defence and clueless midfield passed the ball around. Like they all just stood there waitefor something to happen. Is this the players? Maybe, but the players need direction from the manager/Coching team. They just St on the bench, Carrick trying his best to not make eye contact with anyone.

Time to go
 

bsCallout

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What i'd like to see in the next game is 4-4-2 Defensively going to 4141 in attack.

De Gea
AWB Tuanzabe Maguire Shaw
James McT Pogba Rashford
Martial Greenwood

We need to try something new and aggressive.
 

Mainoldo

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What i'd like to see in the next game is 4-4-2 Defensively going to 4141 in attack.

De Gea
AWB Tuanzabe Maguire Shaw
James McT Pogba Rashford
Martial Greenwood

We need to try something new and aggressive.
Mate that same time and formation would have lost 2-0 to Watford. It’s not the line up it’s the coach.
 

tomaldinho1

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You're right, of course, but generally speaking, this argument is as daft as the "we've tried proven managers already" nonsense the other side often resorts to. It's not needed when more solid arguments can be made, that's my take on it. Football management is a closed occupation with a very limited pool of newcomers into the job to choose from. In this sense, the lure of giving an ex-player of the club a try and see how he performs isn't exactly a crime that warrants the death penalty. Especially at a club like United which has enjoyed two large periods of great success under two managers who both put a lot of emphasis on making Manchester a primary destination for the best British/Irish talent and who both based the foundations of their success around a family atmosphere within the club. Most clubs do it, sometimes it works and some others it doesn't. Leaving the most prolific examples aside (discussed to death at this point), a good example is the Inzaghi brothers: Both appointed at around the same time at the clubs they had spent their best years at with very limited (or nonexistent) previous managerial experience. Philippo was sacked after a season at Milan while Simone is slowly but steadily building something at Rome with Lazio. Philippo was all about talks of aggressive football while Simone, without much fanfare, started working on his 352 which suited Lazio and it was a good fit for the Serie A.

At the time of his appointment as a caretaker manager, Solskjaer was worth the punt. The club was in disarray, Mourinho had decided to sabotage the whole season and he was just waiting for his compensation and the dressing room was as toxic as it could possibly have been. Solskjaer enters and lifts up the spirits and he attempts to turn United into a proper organization again by instilling the same principles that had previously made him decide to spend his entire career with us as a super-sub (when he could have got more playing time elsewhere). The impact he achieves is immediate and it justifies the appointment as a caretaker.

Then, the problems started to pop up. The drop of form was so meteoric that it started raising legitimate questions. Excuses could be made at this point (not his squad, not his pre-season to implement tactics, not a chance to sign his own players) and some (or even most) of them were valid up to a certain degree. But besides all that, the truth of the matter was that the performances he got from his players by being a bringer of change and of a new ethos quickly vaporized into thin air when the dust settled and the feelgood factor eventually started to become less important on a game to game basis. Why? Because that's when tactics become important. The ability to win games more often than losing/drawing them through your gameplan. When it came to that, Solskjaer was found lacking many good ideas. That's why our deteriorating form last season was a major warning bell. We should have waited and he should have never got the permanent job.

But, by that time, Woodward had already made up his mind. As a non-footballing person, he needs to be sold a story. LvG came with a promise of a modern football philosophy while Mourinho walked in with his swagger, proclaiming that it's going to be easy-peasy with "four specialists". And make no mistake about it, they were both heavily backed in the transfer market. Moreso, they were allowed to do their thing. After their failures, Solskjaer presented Woodward his project of "looking toward the past to secure the future". And it's no surprise that Ed was all for it because it's a sound plan as well as a convenient one. I mean, when you admit that you can't land difficult transfer targets what's better than a manager who advocates for youth players to be tried until you can get some of the deals over the line? Especially when you have wasted a small country's GDP on dross to support the previous managers. Think about it: Maguire on 60 million is surplus for "the specialist" Mourinho but it's ok to splash 80 million on him when he becomes a part of the "new core of players at the right age who get the club". For a player who both Mourinho and Solskjaer wanted for the same tactical reasons. But who cares about tactics, right?

And this is exactly where things get fecked up. Solskjaer, despite his good intentions, is not a good manager at this level. He can't make the first team look more than the sum of its parts and he's constantly dropping points left, right and centre. In an age when the game with the ball has become prominent, his best performances come when his team sees as little of the ball as possible. His first three signings and his decision to give both Rashford and Martial the leading roles in the attack and to make McT a mainstay in the midfield attest that counter-attacking football is his game.

Does he need better players because the state of the squad is terrible? He most certainly does but he's not going to get them. One of the main reasons he got the job was because he told Woodward that no immediate spending spree was necessary. No pressure on Ed to provide the goods, he's doing a perfect job and it's just the internet fans who are spoilt that make a lot of noise (that was Solskjaer last summer). If he backs down now and holds Ed responsible for not signing players, the vision of a "slow, gradual cultural rebuild" goes out of the window and Ed will pull the trigger. Instead, he asks for more time and he has convinced many people that the squad will look completely different in a three-years time when he's the one who renews (or agrees to renew) the contracts of Young, Pereira, Lingard, Jones, Lindelof, Mata etc. The other day he was talking about the importance of "the Lingards" who understand what this club is all about... Yet, in three years, we're going to have a title-winning side... Dream on.

But you know something? It could still have worked. I wrote last summer that his status among the fanbase gives him the opportunity to push for things others could or can not. The fact that he's doing so poorly and so many people are still vehemently behind him is proof of that. This club doesn't need a cultural rebuild, it needs an electroshock of epic proportions. Someone who will get in with a mind that 80-90% of this squad won't be here two-three years down the line. And with the tactical nous to have us in the whereabouts of CL qualification (this is what Klopp has done at Liverpool) in the meantime. Not someone to toe the party line. Because the people who still trust Solskajer because they don't trust Woodward are basically supporting a manager who remains in his position because he covers up for Ed's failures. Until time runs up and he becomes the scapegoat. Which will be sad no matter if you're Ole-in or out.
Good post. The 3rd paragraph is where I feel like anyone who is Ole in needs to be paying particular attention to. The only period Ole has had where he has consistently got results was the initial bounce that came with him joining as interim, he admitted he changed nothing tactically aside from asking the players to play more direct and freeing up Pogba a bit - what really changed in those games was that Mou had gone and players started giving 100% again. The more time he's had to imprint his own ideas onto the team, the worse we've become and that's with transfers coming in as well.

I disagree about squad quality though. I think this is one of the biggest myths about United - we actually have a decent squad. Is it as good as the Pool and City squad? No chance. But put a good manager in control of this team and there's enough good players to be at the very least fighting for the top 4. A lot of fans still think that you can just buy a good player and the team instantly gets better but it's just not true - it's all about the tactical setup, team culture, work ethic etc, once that's set you can add the quality piece. We have it the other way round - hundreds of millions spent on good players (we have a lot of good players) but without any real structure for them to slot into.
 

Paxi

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I appreciate your vote of confidence.

I’ve said before that, despite the current results, there are some things I like about what I’m seeing at the moment, and I know/believe that with the right foundations - results can change quickly.

The kind of success I want for us is the one that is built to last, and for that, the foundations need to be deep and structural. The club needs an identity throughout. I think that is the stage we are at currently, and it remains to be seen whether we can go on to the next phase, which I refer to as ‘the butterfly’.

The main thing that has given me some hope is this - for the first time since Fergie left, I am satisfied that pretty much all of our players are playing to their best. That is unusual for us. For years our players have been called shite, even though the day before they got here, their stock was higher. With the exception of the keeper, who looks finished tbh - the players are playing to roughly the level, as individuals, that I think they are capable of. The next stage is to get better players and a clear plan, but having a good culture/attitude and buy-in from the squad is a great foundation to have.

The hope is, over the next couple of windows, we can simply assemble a squad that is capable of more. I also think the margins have been very fine with a lot of the points we have dropped this season, and the hope is with more work and strengthening, those will go in our favour next season.

I think if you want to change manager, it should not be done just because that’s what people do in football. I think you should be able to explain SPECIFICALLY what you hope a change will achieve, rather than it just being another roll of the dice. I look at us outside the top 4, and look at the points we have dropped this season. We should have beaten Liverpool, Arsenal and Wolves for starters. I don’t think a new manager will have changed anything in those games, and we played well, especially injuries considered, and should have won. I think we dropped points against West Ham and Newcastle largely due to the squad being decimated. I can’t trace all of our issues this season down to the manager. I’m also wary of starting again all the time, not until I’m sure that this version is doomed for sure.
I look out for your posts. You tend to be as objective as possible I think so no problem man.

I feel like Ole is maybe laying the right foundations but could he not do that in DOF role? He got rid of certain players and it looks like Phil Jones and Ashley Young (he was good servant for the club, though - but it's time to go) Hopefully Rojo too along with a few others. I know it cannot be done in single window so I would be willing to give him time but we do need an uptick in results, no question about it.

We do lack quality but there is still enough there to be playing decent football and beating the likes of Villa, Watford et al. An odd blip here and there is fine and I totally get that but these statistics in correlation to possession do point to us not having a scooby of how to break teams down.

I agree that the players are at least trying to play for him and he's well liked so that gives me a bit of hope.

I find this very concerning. I think someone like Poch who actually did go to Spurs and solidified them as top, top team by getting almost instant results, getting likes of your Adebayor's out of the club, would be absolutely perfect for United short to mid term. If it goes tits up after 4-5 years like it did for Spurs, then I don't see it as a very big deal because I believe the benefits would outweigh that. He is a brilliant coach, there is no doubt in my mind about that so I think we should get him now that he's available. I think he's better than Ole and that's what it boils down to for me. I think Poch has shown a clear progression in the premier league and I'd love to see him get a bit more money. Again, if Ole is doing the right things at the club then couldn't he just be moved up in a directors role?
 

The Cat

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I look out for your posts. You tend to be as objective as possible I think so no problem man.

I feel like Ole is maybe laying the right foundations but could he not do that in DOF role? He got rid of certain players and it looks like Phil Jones and Ashley Young (he was good servant for the club, though - but it's time to go) Hopefully Rojo too along with a few others. I know it cannot be done in single window so I would be willing to give him time but we do need an uptick in results, no question about it.

We do lack quality but there is still enough there to be playing decent football and beating the likes of Villa, Watford et al. An odd blip here and there is fine and I totally get that but these statistics in correlation to possession do point to us not having a scooby of how to break teams down.

I agree that the players are at least trying to play for him and he's well liked so that gives me a bit of hope.

I find this very concerning. I think someone like Poch who actually did go to Spurs and solidified them as top, top team by getting almost instant results, getting likes of your Adebayor's out of the club, would be absolutely perfect for United short to mid term. If it goes tits up after 4-5 years like it did for Spurs, then I don't see it as a very big deal because I believe the benefits would outweigh that. He is a brilliant coach, there is no doubt in my mind about that so I think we should get him now that he's available. I think he's better than Ole and that's what it boils down to for me. I think Poch has shown a clear progression in the premier league and I'd love to see him get a bit more money. Again, if Ole is doing the right things at the club then couldn't he just be moved up in a directors role?
Totally agreed with everything there. Been saying it for a while.
 

90 + 5min

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Knee jerk reactions are from people who actually think Ole is good enough to win us titles. After 2 great wins their faith was cemented. Didn't matter the tumescent football we've all been accustomed to seeing for the greater part of Oles tenure. That small detail doesn't seem to matter to people like yourself.
Show me those people who thought that we would win titles and specially after two great wins?

I don't recall anybody setting a goal this season that we would win titles. The goal was and still is to repair the damage we did to our self previous seasons and to see progress as a team and club. That is what we are seeing even though results will go up and down. Solskjaer needs and should be given time. More then a year.
 

NotoriousISSY

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All have been clear penalties, where we'd likely have scored anyway. Add in the 4 we missed, 2 of which would have changed the result.

That stat is basically meaningless to both sides of the argument.
I don't disagree on the clearness argument, but disagree that we would have scored anyway.

My first example would be the penalty vs Leicester. And the fact our record from open play is that bad, that I'm not convinced the expected ball in would go on, or the shot from the striker goes on target.

I don't think it's a meaningless stat. It's one of the most damning I've seen on reflection of Ole's tenure.
 

Utd7

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No, it’s not. We have more than half the season to go.

I get the lack of optimism, but people deciding what is and isn’t possible at this stage.

If Chelsea and Spurs draw we are five points behind 4th.
Realistically we are not climbing ahead of Spurs, Wolves AND Sheffield. It sounds ridiculous but we are consistently inconsistent.
 

Joseunited

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No I questioned you not being an Utd fan because you've stopped watching Utd after us beating Spurs and City, which no Utd fan ever would. You're still dodging this question. Could you explain why?

And you being a Jose fan because it seems you're not an Utd fan and your username.

Two separated questions tbh.
:houllier:
I see why you're still a newbie.Cheerio.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Show me those people who thought that we would win titles and specially after two great wins?

I don't recall anybody setting a goal this season that we would win titles. The goal was and still is to repair the damage we did to our self previous seasons and to see progress as a team and club. That is what we are seeing even though results will go up and down. Solskjaer needs and should be given time. More then a year.
I admire your positivity, I really do but unfortunately I can't lift myself up to the same levels.

Nobody in their right minds expected Ole to win titles this season. Personally what I hoped would be a good season was finishing in 4th to 6th place but and it's a big but for me seeing us with some sort of identity of how we want to play. After a year I still can't see anything close to a style of play that makes me think Ole is the man to lead us back to the top. I do like that the toxicity that Mou left behind has gone but that is about it. Being a top manager is so much more than that and I'm afraid even basic tactics escape him. This ethos of surrounding himself with people with strong links to the club (for me) just isn't
going to work because they're no where near good enough to take us back to the top.

I've bolded this part because I do think is fundamental. I don't like posting quotes or clichés that are well past their sell by date but I'll make an exception. If it was any other manager and his coaching staff other than people affiliated with the club would you still be as positive as you're being with Ole and his?
 

reddevil80

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Show me those people who thought that we would win titles and specially after two great wins?

I don't recall anybody setting a goal this season that we would win titles. The goal was and still is to repair the damage we did to our self previous seasons and to see progress as a team and club. That is what we are seeing even though results will go up and down. Solskjaer needs and should be given time. More then a year.
Why on earth wouldn't any manager/coach have goals to win titles?? I'm sure that, being the coach of possibly the biggest club in the world, that would be an absolute minimum. You say our goals were to repair previous damage, do you honestly see progress and/or any repairing of the aforementioned damage?

Even in the eighties when we were winning one week, losing the next, the team had heart, fire and desire. They had a pride in wearing the badge and at least when they lost, they went down fighting. This current batch have been coached in such an inept way that our future must be seen with different management and tactics as there is no fire or fighting spirit. The players are half decent and only a top man manager or coach that can switch tactics mid game can make a success of them. Ole can not.
 
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Le Red

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It takes a very special kind of fool not to realize, at this point, that OGS is just not good enough for this job. And I like the guy just as much as anyone else.
 

Eriku

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Realistically we are not climbing ahead of Spurs, Wolves AND Sheffield. It sounds ridiculous but we are consistently inconsistent.
For now, we’re half the season through.
Most of it we played without Pogba, and if we make a signing or two in January then there’s every reason to imagine we’ll do better in terms of points in 2020. Also, there’s every reason to doubt that Sheffield keep this up.
 

Florida Man

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Man, you are desperate, take it easy. It was just a banter. You accepted the challenge, then withdrew, now justifying yourself. So defensive.
You didn’t give any reasoning for what you state and yet accuse people of bad reasoning. You should learn to hold account of your acts.
Do you have any arguments or you are just one of the Cafe flat track bullies who attack posters with few posts to gain reputation? I was friendly to you and you thought I’m an easy target, didn’t you?
Banter, my ass. You got salty and tried to get me with the a lame cartoon reference because I called you a bad poster, which is a legitimate opinion to take. You’re not entitled to friendly responses for posting shit so quit moaning to me about it.
 

manunited1919

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For now, we’re half the season through.
Most of it we played without Pogba, and if we make a signing or two in January then there’s every reason to imagine we’ll do better in terms of points in 2020. Also, there’s every reason to doubt that Sheffield keep this up.
imagine there’s no country...
and no religion too...
Great signings from Ole & Woodward...
And we make top four...
yeeeeaaahhhgg
 

Majima

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It's times like this that I wish we could purge all past connections to former players from the collective fan base.

The fan base would have gladly kept Moyes on if he was a former player, judging from this past year.

It makes me sick with how accepting of mediocrity they've become.

The club is too soft. A losers mentality.

They say they want to win but i don't believe them in the slightest.
 
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momo83

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Pedantic comment here, but what's with this new tendency of measuring time in terms of transfer windows? I.e. "give Ole two or three more windows". It's not like we normally spend money in January anyway.
Started off by Gary Neville and naturally the flock follow. He seems to think that football management is 100% about signings and nothing else.
 

momo83

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For now, we’re half the season through.
Most of it we played without Pogba, and if we make a signing or two in January then there’s every reason to imagine we’ll do better in terms of points in 2020. Also, there’s every reason to doubt that Sheffield keep this up.
What are your reasons?
 

the chameleon

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30 points

We got only 5 points

:lol:
That alone is enough reason to fire him. There’s no hiding behind processes, youth players, future transfer windows. That is poor showing.

If that was an exam paper for A Levels would be 16.6%. 16.6% isn‘t even a C, not a D, E, F as well. That is an unclassified grade. How is that even acceptable or defendable? We are Manchester fecking United not Crystal Palace.
 

Strelok

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:houllier:
I see why you're still a newbie.Cheerio.
You have nothing to say but this :lol: ?

Again, you're still dodging my question.

Could you explain why you've stopped watching Utd after our two wins against Spurs and City?

I guess not.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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Let’s take a call at the end of the season.I wasn’t getting too excited when we beat Spurs and City,I”m not too gutted now.I have accepted the fact that there are some serious issues in this team that need to be sorted out,until then we will continue to be infuriatingly inconsistent.Whether Solksjaer can carry forward this rebuilding project is obviously a big question....Let’s analyse the results,performances and the development of young players until the end of the season before taking a call...
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
36,451
Location
Where the grass is greener.
I expected ups and downs this season, but the downs heavily outweighing the positives and me seeing very little reason to believe the balance will swing the other way anytime soon is an obvious reason for concern.
 

ThinkTank@Cafe

Full Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
2,390
Location
Kazakhstan
Banter, my ass. You got salty and tried to get me with the a lame cartoon reference because I called you a bad poster, which is a legitimate opinion to take. You’re not entitled to friendly responses for posting shit so quit moaning to me about it.
Whatever. It’s hard to take seriously an opinion from a man who spends days in the political section of a football forum. If your opinion on me was backed by any meaningful contribution to United discussions, it would have been legitimate.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,866
Ole is a very average manager but he is a subset of our problem. The guy who hired him is the problem, a CEO btw who finds it hard to sign more then 3 players per season and see nothing wrong in giving long term contracts to shit players
 

b82REZ

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
9,350
Location
Manchester
I stay off after bad results. It's always full of people who seem happy when we lose. Shit supporters essentially. Why waste my time?
Because you love to act all high and mighty after a win, while you disappear when shit hits the fan.

You've been advocating for Ole for weeks while many of us feared this was the reality of his ability.

I've not seen anyone happy we lost, rather a dawning realisation seems to be hitting that Ole really isn't implementing some grand plan as you and some others have been telling us for weeks.
 

crossy1686

career ending
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
32,146
Location
Manchester/Stockholm
Ole is a very average manager but he is a subset of our problem. The guy who hired him is the problem, a CEO btw who finds it hard to sign more then 3 players per season and see nothing wrong in giving long term contracts to shit players
There are a few options as to what the issue is:
1. There is no plan apart from "go out and play"
2. There is a plan but the players can't execute it due to their ability lacking
3. There is a plan but the coaching staff can't get the players drilled enough - due to inexperience and ability

We won't know until we either change manager, get new players in or hire new coaching staff...
 

90 + 5min

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
5,444
I admire your positivity, I really do but unfortunately I can't lift myself up to the same levels.

Nobody in their right minds expected Ole to win titles this season. Personally what I hoped would be a good season was finishing in 4th to 6th place but and it's a big but for me seeing us with some sort of identity of how we want to play. After a year I still can't see anything close to a style of play that makes me think Ole is the man to lead us back to the top. I do like that the toxicity that Mou left behind has gone but that is about it. Being a top manager is so much more than that and I'm afraid even basic tactics escape him. This ethos of surrounding himself with people with strong links to the club (for me) just isn't
going to work because they're no where near good enough to take us back to the top.

I've bolded this part because I do think is fundamental. I don't like posting quotes or clichés that are well past their sell by date but I'll make an exception. If it was any other manager and his coaching staff other than people affiliated with the club would you still be as positive as you're being with Ole and his?
As Rob Schneider said in "waterboy": You can do it!

So toxicity is gone. Not all but I would say that there is good vibe. Surly frustrated by results but overall there is huge difference looking at last year. We know that we have difficulties winning against worse teams. That can be fixed by getting 2-3 players that can open up those teams. Looking at the bright side, what everyone loves to forget, is that we have been very good against top sides. That means that we have players that can play in certain way. Style. Tactic. Whatever people want to call it. If we can also get players that suits us playing lesser good teams we will suddenly improve as a team and normaly we will have more Points and advance in table.

We are still in hunt for the forth Place (and still in every competition). With couple of additions next month things will look little bit more bright. If we now go for players. I hope we will. At least a central midfielder and attacker.

Why on earth wouldn't any manager/coach have goals to win titles?? I'm sure that, being the coach of possibly the biggest club in the world, that would be an absolute minimum. You say our goals were to repair previous damage, do you honestly see progress and/or any repairing of the aforementioned damage?

Even in the eighties when we were winning one week, losing the next, the team had heart, fire and desire. They had a pride in wearing the badge and at least when they lost, they went down fighting. This current batch have been coached in such an inept way that our future must be seen with different management and tactics as there is no fire or fighting spirit. The players are half decent and only a top man manager or coach that can switch tactics mid game can make a success of them. Ole can not.
Winning titles is a long term goal. And if we manage to win some titles this year I would be very happy. However, the club and the team are not ready if we are honest. We have big problems to fix and it can't be fixed overnight. And one year is short period fixing things in football. That is why I don't see that we should have a goal that is winning titles this year. This year should be year where we try to find our roots wich have been pulled from the ground systematicly from the moment Moyes took over to the Mourinho having small breakdown before last season. We are or at least have been broken force for a couple of years.

You are talking about 80s and football is different now. Playing for the badge is rare in football, while playing for € is more common. What you should be glad of is that Ole is trying to balance that. If you don't want to be here in the club, if you don't want to accept and be in the system then you are off. No matter what "name" you are. I hope that he keeps going the same way in the future. There are players who should be gone. If it is because of quality or attitude don't matter. But that takes time. You can't change whole team in one summer. It costs. Not just in money but as a group and a team.

Is Solskjaer manager that will take us to the glory days? I don't know. Time will tell. What I see is that he is doing things right. And as I have said milion times. Things takes time. Lets pretend new manager comes in tommorow. You couldn't say to him "go now and win it all". Because there is not quality enough. Even a new manager would need couple of years.
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
Ole is a very average manager but he is a subset of our problem. The guy who hired him is the problem, a CEO btw who finds it hard to sign more then 3 players per season and see nothing wrong in giving long term contracts to shit players

Ed doesnt find it hard to sign more than 3, no CEO would really. If you want to spend, you can spend. The gist of it, seems to be that our owners have been burned by the poor spending of previous managers (fair enough to be honest) and have decided that they cannot and will not spend the money needed to compete for honours anymore. Top 4 is the pinnacle of what they are willing to aim for now, barring a freak season. To this effect, they will only green-light enough money to aim for that, ie - around 3 players worth of money each summer.

It's an awful situation, agreed. But this is where, if we are to do a thing in football, we need a manager capable of making the most of what he has. Ole has some absolute dross at his disposal, but not all of it is dross. We have enough quality to be comfortably beating the worst team in PL history, rather than losing 2-0 to them and barely testing their keeper.

Everyone is culpable in this mess and that includes Ole. You don't stick with the worst of the bunch just because the previous ones didnt work out.
 

Igor Drefljak

Definitely Russian
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
7,177
Location
The Wastelands
Ed doesnt find it hard to sign more than 3, no CEO would really. If you want to spend, you can spend. The gist of it, seems to be that our owners have been burned by the poor spending of previous managers (fair enough to be honest)
I'd say that book stops with Ed and Judge.
They sign players without the managers consent. From what I understand at least Di Maria, Fred and Sanchez were not wanted by the managers in charge
Di Maria a galatico style signing by Woodward
Fred and Sanchez one ups on Man City

Then we have Judge paying everyone 200k a week. I don't blame the managers for that
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,866
Ed doesnt find it hard to sign more than 3, no CEO would really. If you want to spend, you can spend. The gist of it, seems to be that our owners have been burned by the poor spending of previous managers (fair enough to be honest) and have decided that they cannot and will not spend the money needed to compete for honours anymore. Top 4 is the pinnacle of what they are willing to aim for now, barring a freak season. To this effect, they will only green-light enough money to aim for that, ie - around 3 players worth of money each summer.

It's an awful situation, agreed. But this is where, if we are to do a thing in football, we need a manager capable of making the most of what he has. Ole has some absolute dross at his disposal, but not all of it is dross. We have enough quality to be comfortably beating the worst team in PL history, rather than losing 2-0 to them and barely testing their keeper.

Everyone is culpable in this mess and that includes Ole. You don't stick with the worst of the bunch just because the previous ones didnt work out.
Look, I can understand Woodward and in some way he's right. Transfers these days is a hell of a process. You'll need to be constantly at the loop of whose moving, whose unhappy, who might consider a move to OT, the minimum clauses that agents might have been able to persuade clubs to put in their player's contracts etc. Then there's of course the courting made by clubs towards players. It's not easy to do so for more then 3 players UNLESS someone is on it full time (something Woodward isn't). Which makes me wonder why we haven't brought a top DOF in. It seems that the club is quite happy being incompetent in this area and only be able to sign 3-4 players per season.
 
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