Le Red
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- Jul 13, 2017
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- 1,441
Not signing a midfielder in this window seems like a good rock bottom checkpoint.
You need to get in the real football world palNot signing a midfielder in this window seems like a good rock bottom checkpoint.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. But judging by what you wrote before, you're still stuck on a time where MUFC wasn't close to stature than it is today.You need to get in the real football world pal
What can the fans do? If we stop going to the games, someone else will. I don't buy any Utd products other than my season ticket. If I dont buy it, someone else will jump in.You forgot the fans mate.
Fans seem to care, but do nothing than go to the caf to moan and argue with each other. No one cares enough to actually do a fecking thing.
This club is doomed.
Still nowhere near rock bottom.I'm not sure what you mean by that. But judging by what you wrote before, you're still stuck on a time where MUFC wasn't close to stature than it is today.
Just because we were shit on the 70s it doesn't mean we have to put up with the shit that is served now.
We became the richest and most glorious club in the world under SAF and that is the legacy and the standard the board has to be judged by.
We still have the money and structure to rise to the top, but as long as some fans are acting as the Glazer's watchdogs by calling others "entitled", we're fecked.
How about this mate?What can the fans do? If we stop going to the games, someone else will. I don't buy any Utd products other than my season ticket. If I dont buy it, someone else will jump in.
I left OT the other night after City's 2nd goal & wasn't alone in leaving. 34mins - the worst yet. A lot of the fans are gutted, but we're powerless and divided. More than half the stadium filled with 'top reds' that think supporting the nose dive into mid-table oblivion is being a better supporter than wanting actual positive change. Being toyed with at home by City, watching Kyle Walker dictate play on the edge of the box over and over again like he's Messi, watching Lingard be paid £120K a week for being a professional jogger and no seeing a 34 year old has been be offered an extra year to stop him going on a free to Italy?! It's a mess mate. Fully agree, the club is doomed. I almost want us to completely bottom out so the vulture-Glazers sell up and take Banker Woodward with them - then maybe we can rebuild as a football club and veer away from the cash cow we've become.
Protesting online is a joke and useless. And boycotting is not a good idea either imo since no clear message is delivered. Some banner, poster, anything with something like "CluelED, new DoF is a must" or "Ed, you ain't know shit about football" would deliver a much stronger, clearer message. The media surely would jump in and then we're heard. And we won't stop until we get at least a new DOF.
All I ask for is next time some match going fans here go to the match, please carry with you some posters so the media, the world could hear our voice.
I've reached a similar conclusion.Fully agree, the club is doomed. I almost want us to completely bottom out so the vulture-Glazers sell up and take Banker Woodward with them - then maybe we can rebuild as a football club and veer away from the cash cow we've become.
Some ad hominem is always a good way to demonstrate your point is weak.Still nowhere near rock bottom.
As for being stuck in a 70s time warp...get fecking real pal.
Come back when you've done over 500 games, euros, home and away. Went to nou camp, rotterdam and Moscow...then tell me I'm stuck!
There is an element of entitlement to it though. Lets face it. Majority of United fans in a particular generation around the world had an attraction to the club because we were winning trophies. Its not an insult to say that, its human nature, but the fact is for the vast majority of this forum United are not the 'local' club.I'm not sure what you mean by that. But judging by what you wrote before, you're still stuck on a time where MUFC wasn't close to stature than it is today.
Just because we were shit on the 70s it doesn't mean we have to put up with the shit that is served now.
We became the richest and most glorious club in the world under SAF and that is the legacy and the standard the board has to be judged by.
We still have the money and structure to rise to the top, but as long as some fans are acting as the Glazer's watchdogs by calling others "entitled", we're fecked.
Because people aren't daft enough to view results in isolation. A loss under Moyes/Ole feels bad becuase its within the context of being managed by mediocrity. A loss under SAF also felt bad but more because we were being manAged incredibly and expected to win.Why last night? You may recall City beating us 6-1 with Fergie in charge, which was infinitely worse.
Yes. It will indeed take time. But it's impossible until we hire the right manager. Currently we've got the wrong one so aren't even really on the path. It's one thing to accept that things have to progress at a certain pace. It's another thing to accept mediocrity and expect time alone to change it.There is an element of entitlement to it though. Lets face it. Majority of United fans in a particular generation around the world had an attraction to the club because we were winning trophies. Its not an insult to say that, its human nature, but the fact is for the vast majority of this forum United are not the 'local' club.
English football has been changed considerably by wealthy outside investors in the last 20 years. It shouldn't be a given that we will always be the dominant team in our league, but it should be a given that we always strive to be that. The investment has been made in the market to keep us competitive but that investment has been spent very poorly so currently we are not. Look at the two dominant teams in the league currently and ask yourself how much money they have wasted in the last 5 years - its not a large number. They recruited well and we recruited very, very poorly, so in my opinion it is unreasonable for our fanbase to expect us to be anywhere other than exactly where we are right now. We are recovering from that period of poor recruitment and we have no choice but to accept that it is probably going to be a 3 year process before we can get back to that level. Expecting that to be any quicker or easier just because we are called Manchester United is a form of entitlement.
It was embarrassing to watch that first half,there’s no question about that.Obviously our midfields been severely weakened over the last few weeks,and I don’t think City would have been able to boss us around like that had Pogba and Mctominay been on the pitch,but either way,not signing a midfielder last summer was a shockingly reckless decision.It occurred to me, whilst watching City toy with us in a manner akin to a cat with a half dead mouse, that I was numb to what was happening on the pitch - at some point in the first half of watching us bumble and stumble with all the bluster of an academy game, it dawned on me that I hadn't felt like this about a United game since Mourinho's last few months in charge.
See, defeats, even hammerings aren't what triggers that feeling of resignation, rather, when your team is completely bereft of creativity, competence and certainty (see what I did there?) only for the camera to then pan to the men coaching them who look like rabbits in headlights, that it dawns on you... that the hope, optimism and mild dosage of naivete you have despite it all is not kicking in. 'Funny' because as United fans yourselves, you'll have recollections of feeling this way possibly three other times since SAF retired, and from those past experiences, it seems a certainty that once the nadir is touched down upon, the position of the current manager, for you, is now untenable.
It feels, by our lack of transfer activity to this point in the month, that the squad woes will be compounded with no bolstering during this window - perhaps I'm wide of the mark here, and we will go out and make a few signings, but, as I see it, a squad in our predicament, with its season hanging by a thread, needs to have players wrapped up and being integrated into the squad as soon as humanly possible - eight days into the winter window, and not a single concrete link to any player does not suggest those in charge are in agreement. You'd like to think there's some serious foraging for agreements on deals being worked away furiously in the background, away from prying eyes, but even that notion seems hopelessly optimistic, doesn't it?
I think most of us are grown up enough and manager-weary enough after so many failures to have an objective, non-hysterical discussion about this - perhaps, for you, there are still reasons to be positive and you've reasoned with yourself that injuries, bad luck, a patchy period or what have you are the source of our woes, which you [truly] believe are temporary? Perhaps, you still believe in us picking things up and attaining either 4th or the Europa to qualify for next season's Champions League, or, the old, very United traditional faith and focus on the kids developing consoles you?
For myself, the worry, as I've posted up threads about in the past, is overspill - where the lack of planning and contingency from the disastrous season immediately carries over into the new one is becoming one of the biggest concerns. Now is the time to bed [some] new players and/or staff, during the period of little to no expectation, so that they can get themselves up to speed with the league (if they've come from elsewhere), their surroundings under less scrutiny and pressure with the hope they're some way down the line to being bedded in and ready to go by the times August, and the new season, rolls round. Any new manager gets a period to look at the squad this way, too, and make calls with certainty on who does and does not fit his vision for the supplemental players in the team he wants to start his season with whilst having a clear idea of what's needed for the summer window, too.
This thread might be seen as premature given we've Liverpool and a return leg vs City plus the replay vs. Wolves on the horizon, and not least, the Europa campaign still to go, but how many proverbial cuts from the thousand are needed for you to feel as though things need to be put to bed now? How was it for you with Moyes, LVG or Mourinho? Did it only kick in once we were out of the cups, or when 4th was a mathematical impossibility, or is it for you like it is for me, where if the games feel like Groundhog Day, you've felt like that's enough now? I don't care for the Ole in/out hokey cokey fractious civil war on here, nor do drubbings particularly influence me, but I find it galling when the opposition have no regard for us, almost to the point where the threat is seen as so miniscule that they've switched off, mid-game, assured it's over - at that point when you look at your own team and can see where they're coming from, I know I've reached the end of my tether.
tl:dr: When is enough for you - what are your personal triggers that say a manager's time is up?
No its not impossible, far from it.Yes. It will indeed take time. But it's impossible until we hire the right manager. Currently we've got the wrong one so aren't even really on the path. It's one thing to accept that things have to progress at a certain pace. It's another thing to accept mediocrity and expect time alone to change it.
What? It's possible to win big honours again under the wrong manager? Far from it ?No its not impossible, far from it.
You get it!There is an element of entitlement to it though. Lets face it. Majority of United fans in a particular generation around the world had an attraction to the club because we were winning trophies. Its not an insult to say that, its human nature, but the fact is for the vast majority of this forum United are not the 'local' club.
English football has been changed considerably by wealthy outside investors in the last 20 years. It shouldn't be a given that we will always be the dominant team in our league, but it should be a given that we always strive to be that. The investment has been made in the market to keep us competitive but that investment has been spent very poorly so currently we are not. Look at the two dominant teams in the league currently and ask yourself how much money they have wasted in the last 5 years - its not a large number. They recruited well and we recruited very, very poorly, so in my opinion it is unreasonable for our fanbase to expect us to be anywhere other than exactly where we are right now. We are recovering from that period of poor recruitment and we have no choice but to accept that it is probably going to be a 3 year process before we can get back to that level. Expecting that to be any quicker or easier just because we are called Manchester United is a form of entitlement.
Its your conclusion that we have the wrong manager - not everybodys feel the same way. Lets see how we are doing we add the 3-4 players that this squad (and manager) desperately needs.What? It's possible to win big honours again under the wrong manager? Far from it ?
It was aimed at fair weather fans like you to be fair, not the point at hand.Some ad hominem is always a good way to demonstrate your point is weak.
You should follow your own advice and get real, because this club is in the rock bottom as far as one of the richest and biggest there ever was, not by some 50 year old standard.
So very true, let's start with the most important part, a better manager.You get it!
We're not magically returning to the top overnight, but what most of the fans want is to see the club to strive for better.
We have the money, prestige and resources. We are only lacking the seriousness. It's not entitlement to want your club to be run seriously.
It was aimed at fair weather fans like you to be fair, not the point at hand.
We’re not at rick bottom and if you think it is then I suggest you support a club nearer to where you live, see what rock bottom feels like
He's right though. When you make assumptions about a posters support based on how many games you've attended makes you look like a top red.It was aimed at fair weather fans like you to be fair, not the point at hand.
We’re not at rick bottom and if you think it is then I suggest you support a club nearer to where you live, see what rock bottom feels like
We’ve already gone out to CityI think a lot more needs to go wrong for there to be any chance of Ole getting sacked if that's what 'rock bottom' is relating to. Eg.
- Go out of the FA Cup to Wolves
- Go out of the League Cup to City
- Fail to win many of the Premier League Fixtures by end of Feb (Norwich, Liverpool, Burnley, Wolves, Chelsea, Watford)
- Go out of the Europa League to Club Brugge
No signings and more players leaving would be tough on the fans and Ole, but would give the board less fuel as they didn't do anything to try and improve our chances.
If we're below 7th and out of all the cups by March without any quality new signings, I don't see how we can do anything with the rest of the season.
Maybe there will be a miracle.We’ve already gone out to City
Not superior in the slightest. Just addressing the point that I was ‘stuck’in The 70s. If that rankles with you then so be it.He's right though. When you make assumptions about a posters support based on how many games you've attended makes you look like a top red.
He is absolutely right in we raised the bar and falling anywhere below that is seen as failure and regression. It doesn't matter if weren't that good in the 70s and 80s, we were for best part of 3 decades and the acceptance of falling back to that standard is detrimental to the club long term.
In my experience of attending games the majority of match going fans are knuckle dragging mouth breathers who simply think they're better because they go to games. When I hear them talk about actual football their knowledge is minimal and generally harks back to a bygone era (the old get it wide and whip in crosses is a regular call I hear in the Stretty). There is very little recognition or understanding of modern football and tactics.
This generational gap of posters who think they are superior because they watched United in the 70s is embarrassing and there are a few of you on here atm.
Christmas has goneMaybe there will be a miracle.
You didn't just say you grew up watching United in the 70s though, you implied your knowledge was superior because you'd been to "over 500 games home and away in Europe ". That had no relevance to what the poster had contested and was simply used by you try and imply your support was better than others.Not superior in the slightest. Just addressing the point that I was ‘stuck’in The 70s. If that rankles with you then so be it.
Bit hypocritical to criticise me for being a former match going fan then state that the ones who are ‘ knuckle draggers’ who don’t know anything about football. Then you’re the one coming across as superior
Wow that is some generalisation
True. It's that bleak in between time of year.Christmas has gone
With Ed at the helm? One can dream!Joke's on you mate, we might actually live long enough to see Utd win another title.
He'll be retired by then.With Ed at the helm? One can dream!