The “Ole In” Brigade

[bosnian_red]

Why can't you accept that the squad is so thin and poor because Ole culled the squad and did not bring in any players? If our players are so pathetic why doesn't he get some from anywhere? Surely they should be better than Lingard and Pereira? And they would not cost an arm and a leg. For 80 million we could have got two class midfield players from abroad. Yet he arsed about Longstaff. If the Board is not getting him any players then he should come out and say openly he is not getting any new players.
If he has any love for United or self respect he should not be cheating the fans about players. He should come out and say openly that he has to live with the squad he has. If he does that the no one is going to blame him for these disasters.

Like Mourinho did, and then got sacked? Ole's in his dream job despite being under qualified. I would love it if he did. But he won't. Just look at him when any reporter asks him about transfers. He side steps the question every time. It's clear we're stuck in the situation, we might end up signing Bruno Fernandes if Sporting changes their stance, but on the whole, it's still nowhere near enough and way too late.

How many times has Ole already made comments alluding to signings needing to be made to reinforce the squad, and then change his tune come the actual transfer window? It's happened before both windows now. It's just our reality.

 

[Enigma_87]

My whole point is that Ole being manager or not doesn't fecking matter at this point. No matter the manager, it isn't changing until the management change their attitude.

This is literally what nobody else in the world thinks, bar some United fans.

 

[RedNed77]

What long term plan? Ole is tactically inept. He is unproven, inexperienced, as is 90% of his coaching team. Ship without a rudder.

There needs to be a theme running through the club and the manager needs to be hired or fired on the basis that he understands what the club is about, and that he can get a tune out of the players we have and play with. Otherwise you end up with the clusterf*ck we’ve had for the last 6 years where the “next guy” comes in, spaffs a load of cash and we start the rebuild again with a new ethos.

Ole will instil that plan and provide a base for the next manager to work from. He has the vision, but lacks the steel, knowledge and ability to implement it himself. Let him put the groundwork in, take the flak, assemble the squad. Then “next guy” can come in and make some minor tweaks and take it from there.

 

[arthurka]

Honestly though - forget all our injuries. The squad we had out tonight should have been easily able to control a game at home against Burnley. There is a susceptibility amongst fans which managers, owners and PR mouthpiece guys like Stone exploit in that if they say something enough, people start to believe it. Mou did this constantly and now Ole is doing it with this incessant positivity and talk of a journey/getting there, I genuinely cannot believe there are people on this sub who watch football regularly and genuinely, forgetting Ole's history, think he's doing a good job or that any kind of rebuild is happening.

We have spent a shit load of money but it's not like we've been spinning a roulette wheel and have just had some bad luck with signings - we've bought players who were excellent at other clubs and then turned them to dross because we setup in a manner which is tactically extremely simple and reliant on individual brilliance rather than a collective effort. This is 100% down to the coaching team who have almost zero relevant experience, that's the flabbergasting thing, McKenna and Carrick have only ever worked as first team coaches at United, Ole has never managed in a top league bar the disastrous Cardiff stint and then we have Phelan who had semi retired in Australia but is the only one who is 'qualified' for his job.

Think what you want of Woodward and the Glazers, they deserve to be held accountable, but the pendulum has swung so far now that we're giving an unqualified manager a free pass because of poor ownership. It's crazy when you think how much scorn fans would have if we put Bruce, McLaren or any other former player turned mediocre manager etc into the seat (and rightly so) but then Ole is someone who deserves time? It's nonsensical. If we want to persist with this style of football, we might as well just sign a manager who is has built a pressing team like Sampaoli, Poch or even Hasenhuttl because, regardless of it's the right choice tactically or not, you know they can implement it.

Agree, fully. Ole has had a year now to work on how to break a low block with no improvements what so ever. He is absolutely not good enough but I fail to see why we should think others would do any better. But I think there is no going back Ole needs to go.

 

[PepsiCola]

What can the guy do when our forwards are missing sitters and our 80 million pound defender is dropping howlers?

 

[bosnian_red]

This is literally what nobody else in the world thinks, bar some United fans.

Ok so you think Pochettino will come in and get this squad into title challengers? Clearly top 4? Listen, I'm not saying Ole is the right guy. He probably isn't. But he can't do shit or even prove if he is or isn't properly, because of the board. It probably won't take too many signings to fill the squad enough to give it a fair chance, and Ole probably wouldn't do well enough in the end anyway whereas with Pochettino we'd have hope. But right now? Pochettino/Ole/whoever, we aren't going to achieve anything. Not until the club reinforces properly and stops playing catch up every year by buying players a year too late, by which time new problems open up.

 

[JPRouve]

What can the guy do when our forwards are missing sitters and our 80 million pound defender is dropping bowlers?

He can coach the team to create more good chances because footballers do not score every sitters, they generally miss them or the goalkeeper makes a good save. That's why football is a low scoring game.

 

[Cassidy]

Ok so you think Pochettino will come in and get this squad into title challengers? Clearly top 4? Listen, I'm not saying Ole is the right guy. He probably isn't. But he can't do shit or even prove if he is or isn't properly, because of the board. It probably won't take too many signings to fill the squad enough to give it a fair chance, and Ole probably wouldn't do well enough in the end anyway whereas with Pochettino we'd have hope. But right now? Pochettino/Ole/whoever, we aren't going to achieve anything. Not until the club reinforces properly and stops playing catch up every year by buying players a year too late, by which time new problems open up.

He would do a better job than Ole

 

[Leftback99]

And implement the pashun, "Inter way" structure of being again midtable, but with a plan!



Well you are defending the guy who condoned this and didn't bring in a replacement but thought about spending most of the budget on a CB, having 7 in his ranks and sending out one of them on loan to Roma.

Not that we didn't need another CB, but it was waaaay down in the list of priorities after CF and CM.

I criticised both decisions at the time on here (it is possible, you don't have to pick a side and make sure everything you say is a negative/positive on the manager).

I don't agree that a new CB (to play alongside Smalling) wasn't priority though. I'm sure the majority would have agreed at the end of last season.

Lukaku wanted to leave. We don't know what pressure there was from above to sell. I think it's daft to believe that Ole thought that this squad is anywhere near good enough and that he didn't want another striker despite what he might say in public. He was part of some of our best ever strongest squads, he's not stupid.

 

[Shark]

You don’t expect any better vs Burnley at OT than a 0-2 loss? Did you expect better on the final day of last season when both Pogba and Rashford were present?

Listen to yourselves, the jig is fecking up, Ole is a terrible manager, with a terrible track record at the highest level, it doesn’t matter who he has at his disposal.

I'm not surprised at all by this result. Look at the fecking team he had to pick from. We don't have players. No, I don't expect a 2-0 loss, but what I'm expecting every game from now until the end of the season if we don't sign anyone and Pogba/McTominay/Rashford are out the whole time is every game is going to be a slog, grind fest, basically flip of the coin to determine the result. It's a mid table squad that is left. No better. A mid table squad that will have mid table results.

Last season was a unique thing season in that we suffered both extremes after he became manager. I'm only looking at this season. I'm not saying he's even very good. I'm saying I don't see a big difference this season, with this squad, regardless of who the manager is. Plenty of them have individually done pretty well. Plenty of them have gone through good periods and progressed as players. But when you're in a situation where your best players need to play every week and then get injured, and you have no depth, then I don't think there's much anyone can do. On top of that the whole Pogba being absent the entire season situation. It's basically as if we sold him and didn't replace him in the summer. Would you be expecting top 4 if last summer we sold Pogba and didn't sign anyone but we replaced Ole with Pochettino? I sure as feck wouldn't.

My whole point is that Ole being manager or not doesn't fecking matter at this point. No matter the manager, it isn't changing until the management change their attitude.

And I’m sorry, but that entire point needs to be thrown in the thrash and burned. If you swapped Ole with Tony Pulis, would you be saying the same thing? If it doesn’t matter that we’ve had Ole and Moyes as managers , well then what’s the point in even attempting to be a big club anymore, we might as well just throw in the towel now. What utter lunacy you people are spouting

 

[Leftback99]

He would do a better job than Ole

But was doing worse with a team most expected to finish at least 3rd this season.

 

[bosnian_red]

He would do a better job than Ole

Better than Ole is being firmly in the top 4. Not buying it with Pogba out all season and just these to choose from.

 

[Cassidy]

But was doing worse with a team most expected to finish at least 3rd this season.

Yes worse when he finished top 3 twice and took them to a UCL final. Hell he got a worse Southampton squad playing much better than Ole has us playing

 

[Cassidy]

Better than Ole is being firmly in the top 4. Not buying it with Pogba out all season and just these to choose from.

I think he does a better job yes mainly because he is good coach

No reason why we couldn't be top4 with how poor Chelsea have been

 

[tenpoless]

Ok so you think Pochettino will come in and get this squad into title challengers? Clearly top 4? Listen, I'm not saying Ole is the right guy. He probably isn't. But he can't do shit or even prove if he is or isn't properly, because of the board. It probably won't take too many signings to fill the squad enough to give it a fair chance, and Ole probably wouldn't do well enough in the end anyway whereas with Pochettino we'd have hope. But right now? Pochettino/Ole/whoever, we aren't going to achieve anything. Not until the club reinforces properly and stops playing catch up every year by buying players a year too late, by which time new problems open up.

Our squad is good enough to beat Burnley at home. It's the responsibility of the manager. It's embarrassing. The improvement should be incremental and the quickest thing We can do is to change the manager. That's step 1.

 

[bosnian_red]

Our squad is good enough to beat Burnley at home. It's the responsibility of the manager. It's embarrassing. The improvement should be incremental and the quickest thing We can do is to change the manager. That's step 1.

I'm not even saying we shouldn't change manager. Yeah, Pochettino should probably take over. I don't think this season would go any differently to what we've been seeing though. He wouldn't have the players to do any different IMO. He would attract better players and I'd have more faith for future building, but I don't think we'd see any difference in results from here on in, given we don't have Rashford, McTominay, Pogba all probably for most of the remaining season.

 

[Enigma_87]

Ok so you think Pochettino will come in and get this squad into title challengers? Clearly top 4? Listen, I'm not saying Ole is the right guy. He probably isn't. But he can't do shit or even prove if he is or isn't properly, because of the board. It probably won't take too many signings to fill the squad enough to give it a fair chance, and Ole probably wouldn't do well enough in the end anyway whereas with Pochettino we'd have hope. But right now? Pochettino/Ole/whoever, we aren't going to achieve anything. Not until the club reinforces properly and stops playing catch up every year by buying players a year too late, by which time new problems open up.

Take Watford this season. They were fecking shite. Javi Gracia was off and couldn't last September after 3 opening losses on the trot and a draw.

In comes Flores, turns out even worse. Comfortably rock bottom and they sack him in December. Probably Watford fans like you have already gave up at that point and welcomed the Championship?

Since they replaced Flores and appointed Pearson - only lost two games - away to Liverpool and Villa. 4 wins, three in a row. Now are on level points with the 17th West Ham.

Changing managers doesn't achieve anything right? Watford should've just accepted they are going down and be done with it.

 

[Leftback99]

Yes worse when he finished top 3 twice and took them to a UCL final. Hell he got a worse Southampton squad playing much better than Ole has us playing

Why are we going back in time? What matters is what would he do with this terrible squad, not Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Dembele etc at their peak.

 

[Cassidy]

Why are we going back in time? What matters is what would he do with this terrible squad, not Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Dembele etc at their peak.

Better than what Ole can do is what I said. His tactics and ability to coach and improve players is levels above Ole. Both their track records show that.
Ole is here because he went on a lucky run which was down to lifting the mood and nothing to do with being a good manager or coach

 

[Mr Pigeon]

There needs to be a theme running through the club and the manager needs to be hired or fired on the basis that he understands what the club is about, and that he can get a tune out of the players we have and play with. Otherwise you end up with the clusterf*ck we’ve had for the last 6 years where the “next guy” comes in, spaffs a load of cash and we start the rebuild again with a new ethos.

Ole will instil that plan and provide a base for the next manager to work from. He has the vision, but lacks the steel, knowledge and ability to implement it himself. Let him put the groundwork in, take the flak, assemble the squad. Then “next guy” can come in and make some minor tweaks and take it from there.

If Ole, by your own admission, lacks the knowledge or ability then why in the absolute feck should anyone implement his vision? I wouldn't ask my dog to take the roll of architect for my new house and then hand the plans over to the builders and say "start with this". Mainly because my dog can't draw that well.

 

[Leftback99]

Take Watford this season. They were fecking shite. Javi Gracia was off and couldn't last September after 3 opening losses on the trot and a draw.

In comes Flores, turns out even worse. Comfortably rock bottom and they sack him in December. Probably Watford fans like you have already gave up at that point and welcomed the Championship?

Since they replaced Flores and appointed Pearson - only lost two games - away to Liverpool and Villa. 4 wins, three in a row. Now are on level points with the 17th West Ham.

Changing managers doesn't achieve anything right? Watford should've just accepted they are going down and be done with it.

We'll see how it works out longer term. Watford weren't expected to be near the bottom this season.

Someone on here even argued with me that sacking Gracia and bringing back Flores would turn their season around. Changing managers always works right?

 

[Enigma_87]

Why are we going back in time? What matters is what would he do with this terrible squad, not Kane, Eriksen, Vertonghen, Dembele etc at their peak.

He'd do infinitely better than the worst manager in the league. He wouldn't let the squad be in the same state during the Summer window either. He's not an amateur like our current manager.

 

[Leftback99]

Better than what Ole can do is what I said. His tactics and ability to coach and improve players is levels above Ole. Both their track records show that.
Ole is here because he went on a lucky run which was down to lifting the mood and nothing to do with being a good manager or coach

But Poch wasn't even doing it this season with a better team so you can't be so certain. Maybe you're right, but you could easily be wrong.

 

[Enigma_87]

We'll see how it works out longer term. Watford weren't expected to be near the bottom this season.

Someone on here even argued with me that sacking Gracia and bringing back Flores would turn their season around. Changing managers always works right?

Better try than keep the insanity going.

But Poch wasn't even doing it this season with a better team so you can't be so certain. Maybe you're right, but you could easily be wrong.

If we are using your example - Erling Moe - a managerial nobody did better than Ole in his first year at Molde, compared to him in the last 5. With the same team.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Until we get a proper footballing structure and vision from top to bottom at this club, no self respecting, decent manager will want to manage us.
unless they are in it purely for the payday.
The changes needed are throughout the whole club.

 

[Cassidy]

But Poch wasn't even doing it this season with a better team so you can't be so certain. Maybe you're right, but you could easily be wrong.

After 5 years with the squad (which was not refreshed) Klopp had the same issue at Dortmund

I very much doubt that I am wrong about Poch being a better coach than Ole and time will prove it when he gets his next job

The only reason it is even entertained by United fans is because he is incumbant. If he wasn't no one would even question whether Poch is the better coach

 

[RedNed77]

If Ole, by your own admission, lacks the knowledge or ability then why in the absolute feck should anyone implement his vision? I wouldn't ask my dog to take the roll of architect for my new house and then hand the plans over to the builders and say "start with this". Mainly because my dog can't draw that well.

He lacks the wherewithal to hold players to task when they deviate from the plan. He’s too nice, nice people have good ideas too though, it’s not only terrible people.

LvG “knew” what he was doing, he was a fecking disaster and set the club back 5 years with his philoshophy. Jose likewise. How many top managers do we need to go through before we admit that we are a special case and any change is going to need time. It’s not faith it’s common sense. Fecking idiots on here think we sign 3 players, do some coaching and we win the league again. It’s bollocks.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

He lacks the wherewithal to hold players to task when they deviate from the plan. He’s too nice, nice people have good ideas too though, it’s not only terrible people.

LvG “knew” what he was doing, he was a fecking disaster and set the club back 5 years with his philoshophy. Jose likewise. How many top managers do we need to go through before we admit that we are a special case and any change is going to need time. It’s not faith it’s common sense. Fecking idiots on here think we sign 3 players, do some coaching and we win the league again. It’s bollocks.

So the solution for stability is someone who doesn't know what he's doing. Ok.

Feck, the dog just added a second pool on the roof to the design plans...

 

[Denis79]

He lacks the wherewithal to hold players to task when they deviate from the plan. He’s too nice, nice people have good ideas too though, it’s not only terrible people.

LvG “knew” what he was doing, he was a fecking disaster and set the club back 5 years with his philoshophy. Jose likewise. How many top managers do we need to go through before we admit that we are a special case and any change is going to need time. It’s not faith it’s common sense. Fecking idiots on here think we sign 3 players, do some coaching and we win the league again. It’s bollocks.

We might be able to draw against Burnley at Old Trafford though.

 

[Dan600]

I think even if Ole is the wrong man, I think people’s concern over sacking him is it just continuing to protect senior management from criticism. (I’m starting to think we need several new faces among the backroom/coaching staff regardless)

People don’t want Ole gone, if either a DOF isn’t in place, or either/or Woodward & Judge go. The transfer activity is the fundamental problem, along with our wage bill. And that hasn’t changed over 3 different managers. When Woodward says ‘most sensible clubs only negotiate with 1 player/transfer at a time’, he’s failed to realise that the eggs in 1 basket strategy is precisely why players/clubs get such good deals out of us, they know there is no alternative in place and we will crumble. Only now we won’t crumble, but we won’t have a plan B, like when missing out on Haaland....

Be Ole Out/Ole In, I don’t mind, but yet another manager is having his squad mismanaged from above and being thrown under the bus. Moyes first, then LVG, Jose And now Ole, all let down by poor decisions in the market.. Moyes not backed full stop, LVG by a lack of plan or direction, not having players bought to fit him & his philosophy, Mourinho not given what he asked for, instead having something else given, and now Ole, sell half the squad, don’t bother with replacements.

Each manager had a potential level, and none have been given the opportunity to reach theirs. Ole’s may not be high enough for the club to succeed, but we’ll likely never know, Woodward WILL sack him to save his own skin.

 

[R'hllor]

What can the guy do when our forwards are missing sitters and our 80 million pound defender is dropping howlers?

Christ almighty

 

[Bastian]

Honestly though - forget all our injuries. The squad we had out tonight should have been easily able to control a game at home against Burnley. There is a susceptibility amongst fans which managers, owners and PR mouthpiece guys like Stone exploit in that if they say something enough, people start to believe it. Mou did this constantly and now Ole is doing it with this incessant positivity and talk of a journey/getting there, I genuinely cannot believe there are people on this sub who watch football regularly and genuinely, forgetting Ole's history, think he's doing a good job or that any kind of rebuild is happening.

We have spent a shit load of money but it's not like we've been spinning a roulette wheel and have just had some bad luck with signings - we've bought players who were excellent at other clubs and then turned them to dross because we setup in a manner which is tactically extremely simple and reliant on individual brilliance rather than a collective effort. This is 100% down to the coaching team who have almost zero relevant experience, that's the flabbergasting thing, McKenna and Carrick have only ever worked as first team coaches at United, Ole has never managed in a top league bar the disastrous Cardiff stint and then we have Phelan who had semi retired in Australia but is the only one who is 'qualified' for his job.

Think what you want of Woodward and the Glazers, they deserve to be held accountable, but the pendulum has swung so far now that we're giving an unqualified manager a free pass because of poor ownership. It's crazy when you think how much scorn fans would have if we put Bruce, McLaren or any other former player turned mediocre manager etc into the seat (and rightly so) but then Ole is someone who deserves time? It's nonsensical. If we want to persist with this style of football, we might as well just sign a manager who is has built a pressing team like Sampaoli, Poch or even Hasenhuttl because, regardless of it's the right choice tactically or not, you know they can implement it.

Good post.

 

[11101]

I dont hold Ole totally accountable.

I wrote our season off when McTominay got injured. We have just about 11 players that are capable of playing the way Ole wants us to play. As soon as we lost one of them, and in such a critical area, I knew it would be tough. It's not simply that the replacements are worse, it is that the replacements suit a totally different style of play. Now we have a team full of players who play in different ways and it's no wonder we look so disjointed. As slowly others have gone it gets worse each time.

That we have such a disjointed squad is not Ole's fault. If he could have replaced McT with somebody with an equal skillset it would have been much easier. It doesn't matter how good the individuals are, at PL level cohesion is the most important thing.

 

[Redo91]

Do you personally watch training? Do you speak with the coaching staff? Maybe there are reasons. I don't think anyone that backs ole, is thinking....it will be amazing or that we will be consistent. It takes a lot of time, luck, effort and backing from the board....you can be anyone but if your not backed by the board then you will struggle and they didn't even back Jose. We're not stupid but you have to qualify your questions cause it's easy to just react all the time....

According to you, you can do a better job then ole without advice from all departments. Why not apply for the job?

Where did I say I could do a better job? Just saying there are plenty of more qualified coaches out there than OGS who only got the job in the first place because of his links with the club.

 

[Cassidy]

Do you personally watch training? Do you speak with the coaching staff? Maybe there are reasons. I don't think anyone that backs ole, is thinking....it will be amazing or that we will be consistent. It takes a lot of time, luck, effort and backing from the board....you can be anyone but if your not backed by the board then you will struggle and they didn't even back Jose. We're not stupid but you have to qualify your questions cause it's easy to just react all the time....

According to you, you can do a better job then ole without advice from all departments. Why not apply for the job?

Why do you need to be backed to beat Burnley a team with inferior players?

 

[Redo91]

Thought he set us up well, subs were fine (though i dont see what else we could have done). What concern me is how fecking flat we look at times like we looked today. Maybe its fatigue, but there is zero fight in us it seems.

Honestly, i dont give a toss about who is in the chair (as long as its not Rodgers, think hes a bellend)

Did you not think it made more sense not to start James who needs a rest and is less effective when teams sit back and restrict the space he needs to utilise his pace?

Also I thought bringing on Shaw and Lingard when we needed goals was far from fine. Surely Gomes was a better bet. Can’t have been any worse.

 

[Castia]

The culture though guys, don’t forget the culture.

 

[forevrared]

I’ve backed Ole all the way through. Today’s the first time I’ve wavered.

I still think anyone would struggle with an inept boardroom who isn’t providing a squad of acceptable quality and quantity, but the results just cannot continue to be this poor. I get that we’re without 3 of our most important players, including our two best by some distance, but a club this size should be able to see off the likes of Burnley with a few reserves in the side.

Poch would likely be good, but he’ll need backing in the market the same way Ole does. Until we can be sure he’ll get it, changing managers seems like the age old analogy of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[Cassidy]

I dont like the culture he seems to be bringing in. Thinking losing to Liverpool was progress is the kind of mentality that led us to lose today

 

[RedNed77]

So the solution for stability is someone who doesn't know what he's doing. Ok.

Feck, the dog just added a second pool on the roof to the design plans...

We’re not asking a dog to give us concrete grades for a foundation. We’re asking a man who spent 10+ years playing under our most successful manager to recreate the ethos and group mentality that made us successful. If you want to be oblique, fine. I never said he doesn’t know what he’s doing, I just acknowledged he’s not the man to complete the task.

Give us your three players and your vague idea as to coaching, we’ll do that instead and Mr Pigeon can answer for it in two years when we’re still 5th and poorer than we are now with new dead wood to clear out.