But Poch wasn't even doing it this season with a better team so you can't be so certain. Maybe you're right, but you could easily be wrong.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
Better try than keep the insanity going.
If we are using your example - Erling Moe - a managerial nobody did better than Ole in his first year at Molde, compared to him in the last 5. With the same team.
Until we get a proper footballing structure and vision from top to bottom at this club, no self respecting, decent manager will want to manage us.
unless they are in it purely for the payday.
The changes needed are throughout the whole club.
unless they are in it purely for the payday.
The changes needed are throughout the whole club.
After 5 years with the squad (which was not refreshed) Klopp had the same issue at Dortmund
I very much doubt that I am wrong about Poch being a better coach than Ole and time will prove it when he gets his next job
The only reason it is even entertained by United fans is because he is incumbant. If he wasn't no one would even question whether Poch is the better coach
He lacks the wherewithal to hold players to task when they deviate from the plan. He’s too nice, nice people have good ideas too though, it’s not only terrible people.
LvG “knew” what he was doing, he was a fecking disaster and set the club back 5 years with his philoshophy. Jose likewise. How many top managers do we need to go through before we admit that we are a special case and any change is going to need time. It’s not faith it’s common sense. Fecking idiots on here think we sign 3 players, do some coaching and we win the league again. It’s bollocks.
So the solution for stability is someone who doesn't know what he's doing. Ok.
Feck, the dog just added a second pool on the roof to the design plans...
We might be able to draw against Burnley at Old Trafford though.
I think even if Ole is the wrong man, I think people’s concern over sacking him is it just continuing to protect senior management from criticism. (I’m starting to think we need several new faces among the backroom/coaching staff regardless)
People don’t want Ole gone, if either a DOF isn’t in place, or either/or Woodward & Judge go. The transfer activity is the fundamental problem, along with our wage bill. And that hasn’t changed over 3 different managers. When Woodward says ‘most sensible clubs only negotiate with 1 player/transfer at a time’, he’s failed to realise that the eggs in 1 basket strategy is precisely why players/clubs get such good deals out of us, they know there is no alternative in place and we will crumble. Only now we won’t crumble, but we won’t have a plan B, like when missing out on Haaland....
Be Ole Out/Ole In, I don’t mind, but yet another manager is having his squad mismanaged from above and being thrown under the bus. Moyes first, then LVG, Jose And now Ole, all let down by poor decisions in the market.. Moyes not backed full stop, LVG by a lack of plan or direction, not having players bought to fit him & his philosophy, Mourinho not given what he asked for, instead having something else given, and now Ole, sell half the squad, don’t bother with replacements.
Each manager had a potential level, and none have been given the opportunity to reach theirs. Ole’s may not be high enough for the club to succeed, but we’ll likely never know, Woodward WILL sack him to save his own skin.
People don’t want Ole gone, if either a DOF isn’t in place, or either/or Woodward & Judge go. The transfer activity is the fundamental problem, along with our wage bill. And that hasn’t changed over 3 different managers. When Woodward says ‘most sensible clubs only negotiate with 1 player/transfer at a time’, he’s failed to realise that the eggs in 1 basket strategy is precisely why players/clubs get such good deals out of us, they know there is no alternative in place and we will crumble. Only now we won’t crumble, but we won’t have a plan B, like when missing out on Haaland....
Be Ole Out/Ole In, I don’t mind, but yet another manager is having his squad mismanaged from above and being thrown under the bus. Moyes first, then LVG, Jose And now Ole, all let down by poor decisions in the market.. Moyes not backed full stop, LVG by a lack of plan or direction, not having players bought to fit him & his philosophy, Mourinho not given what he asked for, instead having something else given, and now Ole, sell half the squad, don’t bother with replacements.
Each manager had a potential level, and none have been given the opportunity to reach theirs. Ole’s may not be high enough for the club to succeed, but we’ll likely never know, Woodward WILL sack him to save his own skin.
Christ almighty
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Good post.
I dont hold Ole totally accountable.
I wrote our season off when McTominay got injured. We have just about 11 players that are capable of playing the way Ole wants us to play. As soon as we lost one of them, and in such a critical area, I knew it would be tough. It's not simply that the replacements are worse, it is that the replacements suit a totally different style of play. Now we have a team full of players who play in different ways and it's no wonder we look so disjointed. As slowly others have gone it gets worse each time.
That we have such a disjointed squad is not Ole's fault. If he could have replaced McT with somebody with an equal skillset it would have been much easier. It doesn't matter how good the individuals are, at PL level cohesion is the most important thing.
I wrote our season off when McTominay got injured. We have just about 11 players that are capable of playing the way Ole wants us to play. As soon as we lost one of them, and in such a critical area, I knew it would be tough. It's not simply that the replacements are worse, it is that the replacements suit a totally different style of play. Now we have a team full of players who play in different ways and it's no wonder we look so disjointed. As slowly others have gone it gets worse each time.
That we have such a disjointed squad is not Ole's fault. If he could have replaced McT with somebody with an equal skillset it would have been much easier. It doesn't matter how good the individuals are, at PL level cohesion is the most important thing.
Where did I say I could do a better job? Just saying there are plenty of more qualified coaches out there than OGS who only got the job in the first place because of his links with the club.
Why do you need to be backed to beat Burnley a team with inferior players?
Did you not think it made more sense not to start James who needs a rest and is less effective when teams sit back and restrict the space he needs to utilise his pace?
Also I thought bringing on Shaw and Lingard when we needed goals was far from fine. Surely Gomes was a better bet. Can’t have been any worse.
The culture though guys, don’t forget the culture.
I’ve backed Ole all the way through. Today’s the first time I’ve wavered.
I still think anyone would struggle with an inept boardroom who isn’t providing a squad of acceptable quality and quantity, but the results just cannot continue to be this poor. I get that we’re without 3 of our most important players, including our two best by some distance, but a club this size should be able to see off the likes of Burnley with a few reserves in the side.
Poch would likely be good, but he’ll need backing in the market the same way Ole does. Until we can be sure he’ll get it, changing managers seems like the age old analogy of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
I still think anyone would struggle with an inept boardroom who isn’t providing a squad of acceptable quality and quantity, but the results just cannot continue to be this poor. I get that we’re without 3 of our most important players, including our two best by some distance, but a club this size should be able to see off the likes of Burnley with a few reserves in the side.
Poch would likely be good, but he’ll need backing in the market the same way Ole does. Until we can be sure he’ll get it, changing managers seems like the age old analogy of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
I dont like the culture he seems to be bringing in. Thinking losing to Liverpool was progress is the kind of mentality that led us to lose today
We’re not asking a dog to give us concrete grades for a foundation. We’re asking a man who spent 10+ years playing under our most successful manager to recreate the ethos and group mentality that made us successful. If you want to be oblique, fine. I never said he doesn’t know what he’s doing, I just acknowledged he’s not the man to complete the task.
Give us your three players and your vague idea as to coaching, we’ll do that instead and Mr Pigeon can answer for it in two years when we’re still 5th and poorer than we are now with new dead wood to clear out.
Writing off a season because Mctominay got injured.
Do you not see how silly that sounds? Scotts been good in a few big games. But he’s bang average when it comes to passing the ball forward or when we need to break teams down.
If Ole didn’t waste the summer chasing average like Longstaff because he clearly knew the CM position needed strengthening, so no idea why we just decided it was Longstaff or nobody then things might have been better.
We’re asking a man who has never shown any ability to create such ethos and group mentality
We are then backing him when he is clearly failing
Bull fecking shit.
This is not Ole running an asylum or AA gathering. The man is inept and probably as qualified as that dog with the pool.
Playing under Fergie means feck all. O'Shea played under Fergie for more than 10+ years, should we hire him next?
He has been here for more than an year and still can't give to his players some kind of a tactical approach or put his point(whatever it is) across and translate his ideas to the players.
Jose and LvG were clearing deadwood in the same way, hardly he has done something fantastic besides stinking up the place and losing us another season which could've been used to give to a proper manager.
Writing off a season because Mctominay got injured.
Do you not see how silly that sounds? Scotts been good in a few big games. But he’s bang average when it comes to passing the ball forward or when we need to break teams down.
If Ole didn’t waste the summer chasing average like Longstaff because he clearly knew the CM position needed strengthening, so no idea why we just decided it was Longstaff or nobody then things might have been better.
You do understand what I'm saying though.
Every other top team has a squad of interchangeable players. If Liverpool lose a midfielder they have another who comes in and plays the same way. Maybe they're not as good but the style and tactics remain the same.
We lost McTominay and we replaced him with players who require us to completely change our style of play to accommodate them. Instead of playing to our strengths we are playing to the level of the lowest players in the team. It will never work in a league as competitive as the PL.
A number of members on here are prime candidates for cult indoctrination. Will follow the leader no matter how bad he is!
Our style was shite since March with or without McTominay. You are reaching desperation levels.
What is our supposed style with McT, out of curiosity, because we have changed styles and formations under Solskjaer and all of them has been shite since he was made permanent.
Yeah, how could the person managing the football team be held accountable? That would be pure madness.
He won’t. He’s in the unique position of fecking up at teams in both ends of the table, both with sizeable budgets and also he fecked up in the championship.
Managers we usually mock ala Moyes, Big Sam, etc have at least proven that they offer something at a certain level. Ole truly crap.
It's not a very good plan. The first pre condition should be that the individual should he or have to the potential to be a top class manager. Then all these things like ethos, tradition, mentality, youth etc come in. Otherwise we may as well put Park Hi Sung or any successful United player in charge.
It's quite obvious we want to play with a high press and counter quickly from winning the ball high up the pitch. It didnt always work but dont forget we played some of our best football since SAF under this system. A team with players like Matic and Mata in it will never be able to do it.
Ole should have a plan B ready but it can hardly be his fault that we've had such a scatter gun approach to recruitment and are left with a hugely disjointed squad.
He has been found out at two clubs already in PL. He offers nothing. No wonder no club came for him for 5 years after Cardiff.
This will be his Waterloo in terms of getting a top job ever again.
Matic and Fred have actually been two of our most consistent players since McTominay got injured. Our CBs have been bad, our goalkeeper has been bad and our attack is bad. If anything our central midfield has been fine when normally it's been our weakest link.
Our squad isn't very good but it's defintely better in defense than it's been showing. We really need to start stringing together clean sheets because this is getting embarrassing. Going 0-1 down feels like a loss already.
We've won 16/36 games this season in all competitions (I count the Rochdale match as a draw). The 4-1 win against Newcastle is the only game which we won after going conceding first. Of the 20 games that we didn't win either the opposition scored first or it finished 0-0 on 15 occassions.
To sum it up, 15/16 wins we scored first. 15/20 non-wins we didn't score first. The games that we scored first and didn't win include the 1-1 against Arsenal and Liverpool and the 1-2 loss against Astana were we played youngsters. So basically we can conclude that something is mentally wrong with our squad on two fronts. We concede way too many goals and they aren't capable of fighting back after going down 0-1. The manager has to take responsibility for that, especially considering his usual post-match comments about not giving up etc.
Our squad isn't very good but it's defintely better in defense than it's been showing. We really need to start stringing together clean sheets because this is getting embarrassing. Going 0-1 down feels like a loss already.
We've won 16/36 games this season in all competitions (I count the Rochdale match as a draw). The 4-1 win against Newcastle is the only game which we won after going conceding first. Of the 20 games that we didn't win either the opposition scored first or it finished 0-0 on 15 occassions.
To sum it up, 15/16 wins we scored first. 15/20 non-wins we didn't score first. The games that we scored first and didn't win include the 1-1 against Arsenal and Liverpool and the 1-2 loss against Astana were we played youngsters. So basically we can conclude that something is mentally wrong with our squad on two fronts. We concede way too many goals and they aren't capable of fighting back after going down 0-1. The manager has to take responsibility for that, especially considering his usual post-match comments about not giving up etc.
The so called best football that we played was at the very beginning before he even got through the door. He got his purple patch after managerial change and the toxic atmosphere under Jose at the end and that was it.
I have not see the high press in the way you are describing it when McT was fit this season. Our "high press" is uncoordinated, scattered approach without even remotely looking like pressing as a team.
It's simple, if he had no history with the club 95% of the supporter base would want him gone.
This guy will be more damaging than Moyes, we weren't a perfect team but he has dismantled a good team that made 81 points in the league and finished 2nd in 18 months. It would take years and millions upon millions of pounds to get back there now and I guarantee that level wont be reached under his 'leadership'.
We're not getting champions league football next season, which means money and a worse position to attract players. If the next 2 windows don't go to plan we could slide further fown the table and the top reds will clap and say that's all we can expect from the manager nothing is his fault..
This guy will be more damaging than Moyes, we weren't a perfect team but he has dismantled a good team that made 81 points in the league and finished 2nd in 18 months. It would take years and millions upon millions of pounds to get back there now and I guarantee that level wont be reached under his 'leadership'.
We're not getting champions league football next season, which means money and a worse position to attract players. If the next 2 windows don't go to plan we could slide further fown the table and the top reds will clap and say that's all we can expect from the manager nothing is his fault..
Many managers want to play like Klopp. Most don't have the managerial ability to pull it off. If I was a manager maybe I'd also want my team to play tiki taka like prime Barcelona. Doesn't mean I can manage Barcelona or Bayern based on mere ideas.
Plan A was never actually good enough because Ole doesn't know how to produce a football team that plays like that. Not at this level. So we'd try to play 'fast football' and that was about it. No nuance or excellence in coaching apparent in our play. No fluidity that you'd expect a top manager to bring in.
So all this talk about 'Ole just lacking a plan B' is silly. He never had a plan A (that was visible and performing at least) that one could truly get behind.
Give it to Giggsy!
This exactly. It's easy to talk about how you want to play exciting, attacking football with high press but most managers don't know how to actually make their team play that way.
Imagine thinking we would turn it around with a new manager in charge This is what we have until Ed and the Glazers go sorry chaps.
This is what we have until Ed and the Glazers go sorry chaps.Imagine thinking we would turn it around with a new manager in charge
Imagine thinking we would turn it around with a worse manager than David Moyes
Klopp was shite for the first 3 years. Everybody forgets that. Whether Ole is good enough or not, we are not going to find out with this current squad.
People are still going on with these ethos, mentality and culture nonsense. He has been here for almost a year and we show a total loser mentality whenever we go down. Just check the second half, zero urgency while we were losing 2-0 on our pitch. In fact I have seen much more fight in these group of players under the previous 2 managers whenever we went down in result than what we had seen under Ole. If he's trying to change the mentality and culture then he has failed in it and has failed miserably too.
Except he wasn't. Ask Livepool fans whether he was 'shit'. He was clearly building towards and laying foundations for something Ole can't in his wildest dreams.
We've already found out regarding Ole.