Are Martial's problems to do with the level of the team or independent of them?

[Mainoldo]

My problem with him is not his output, when hes on form hes really good, but the problem with him is and has always been consistency. When Rashford has a bad day he puts in a good shift as the bare minimum and usually creates some danger.

Yesterday and vs Burnely he spent all game either standing on the shoulder of the CB's or drifting out wide/moving backwards. Not once that i can remember did he attempt to make any sort of progressive run and lose his marker. His movement is great when he has one of his good games, so its not like hes not capable, he just does not do it.

One thing is Lingard and Pereira regularly serving up stinkers, they're just shite, but there is no reason why Martial should as hes capable of much more

Maybe he’s just fed up. Listen I like him But in know way do I believe he’s the best thing since sliced bread or that his last two proper games have been good enough.

However I’m not going to go down the road of this guy not being good enough.. we have been here before and quite frankly we are expecting consistent performance from a team that is poorly managed.

I actually think Dan James isn’t good enough but I feel sorry for him the way this set up has made him look worse than he is.

All this Martial stuff to me as you’ve pointed out is just guys not liking the fact he doesn’t run around a lot and making it part of he’s rubbish..

 

[James Ward]

Just really need a proper manager who knows how to get best out of him and the rest of the team. He is not a striker, should be on the left.

I think he is a bit overated but Ole has no plan B. Still need a whole new front three in my opinion.

 

[Harry190]

Just really need a proper manager who knows how to get best out of him and the rest of the team. He is not a striker, should be on the left.

I think he is a bit overated but Ole has no plan B. Still need a whole new front three in my opinion.

Bullshit. The narrative always changes with him.

When he was on the left: No, he should be played as a striker, we're wasting his talent.

When he's in the middle: No, he should be on the left.

He's never the one to blame. Always everyone else.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Without penalties in PL, Rashford has 9 goals and 4 assists in 1882 minutes. Martial has 8 goals and 3 assists in 1548 minutes.

Wow, that's crazy. The perceptions of their seasons are quite far apart from the reality of the stats.

I said it a few weeks ago in the Martial thread, the ultimate perceptions of their seasons will depend on the fact that Martial was injured before Rashford. If it was the other way around, people would 100% no doubt be slating Rashford right now, saying Martial is by far the better player. When in reality they simply both need quality around them to shine, both on the pitch and in the dugout.

I don't understand why it's such a hard concept to get.

 

[Hugh Jass]

With a full team, i would try him on the right wing.

I think we need to spend big on a proper striker in the summer. Try Martial on the RW and Rashford on the LW.

 

[George Owen]

Wow, that's crazy. The perceptions of their seasons are quite far apart from the reality of the stats.

I said it a few weeks ago in the Martial thread, the ultimate perceptions of their seasons will depend on the fact that Martial was injured before Rashford. If it was the other way around, people would 100% no doubt be slating Rashford right now, saying Martial is by far the better player. When in reality they simply both need quality around them to shine, both on the pitch and in the dugout.

I don't understand why it's such a hard concept to get.

The difference is Rashford works his ass off, always, even if playing like shit.

Martial on the other side... horrible attitude. His body language is usually disgraceful.

 

[He'sRaldo]

The difference is Rashford works his ass off, always, even if playing like shit.

Martial on the other side... horrible attitude. His body language is usually disgraceful.

In the Rashford thread, when he was out of form there were numerous accusations of laziness, selfishness, and "thinking he made it". It's all nonsense and hindsight, just trying to slate players.

When Rashford comes back and Martial plays well again, will he suddenly have changed? No. He's been working his ass off this whole season, anyone who says otherwise is lying. It's these lazy accusations that make no sense.

If you're gonna criticize the lad use something concrete. His technique and touch wasn't up to scratch, he looked tired and heavy. He should vary up his movement. Don't go for the tired, worn-out cliches of attitude and body language; that's just boring.

 

[Steven-UK]

The problem is that he is simply not good enough, what's he been here now? 7 years? And excuses are still being made about him?

He should be sold ASAP. Can you imagine him getting a testimonial..... he probably wouldn't even turn up he is that lazy.

Stealing a (wealthy) living this lad, the same as many in this team.

 

[Bole Top]

looks like he simply isn't good enough and that's it. by "good enough" I mean when you take into account what people actually expected from him after that first season and what they usually expect from any United forward. if market wasn't that fecked up and there were more clubs with money, Martial would be someone who'd be playing for Lazio, Sevilla or Porto and you probably wouldn't give a feck about him after looking at his stats in last 4 years.

 

[Fitchett]

Martial is a lazy b*stard. Strolls around, doesn't make runs, doesn't chase back, doesn't head the ball. Yesterday he spent so much time out wide, when as the no. 9 he should have been in the penalty area. He has had the chance to cement his place as our centre forward and not taken it. Get him sold in the summer.

 

[bonothom]

Martial isn't a number 9.. He's better coming in from the left. But cos he thinks he's a great goalscorer Solskjaer is pandering to him. United will never be any good with him leading the line. He gets knocked off the ball too easily and then blames the service.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Martial isn't a number 9.. He's better coming in from the left. But cos he thinks he's a great goalscorer Solskjaer is pandering to him. United will never be any good with him leading the line. He gets knocked off the ball too easily and then blames the service.

The reason he's playing as a 9 is because he was also woeful coming in from the left. Exact same pattern, some games he looks good and like he can push on then boom back to the usual just standing there looking for the ball to feet all the time. He's just not good enough.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

His touch and awareness which are.usually excellent have been shit lately.

I'm hoping he is tired and will be better after the break.

he has been completely shit but same as our manager and every player except Big Harry, DDG and Fred.

 

[littleman]

The Rooney playbook is being used..

"Not a winger he's really a striker"
"Not really a striker he's a special type of striker"
"Actually no he's really a left winger"
"He just needs a manager"

Maybe it's just Martial being Martial

 

[Art Vandelay]

The Rooney playbook is being used..

"Not a winger he's really a striker"
"Not really a striker he's a special type of striker"
"Actually no he's really a left winger"
"He just needs a manager"

Maybe it's just Martial being Martial

You forgot the players around him being blamed. Remember when Rooney only needed pace around him? Martial apparently needs a partner and very specific wingers which consist of conveniently the one that's currently injured and others that either don't play for us or exist only in people's imaginations. Just like Rooney and his mythical pacey players.

 

[He'sRaldo]

You forgot the players around him being blamed. Remember when Rooney only needed pace around him? Martial apparently needs a partner and very specific wingers which consist of conveniently the one that's currently injured and others that either don't play for us or exist only in people's imaginations. Just like Rooney and his mythical pacey players.

Mythical? When last did we have a right winger? Or a functional right wing?

Maybe we shouldn't bother with Sancho, we're good right? It's all a myth.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Mythical? When last did we have a right winger? Or a functional right wing?

What's that got to do with the excuses for Rooney and Martial? One of the excuses for Rooney was that he needed pacey players around him, it was bollocks, just like the excuses for Martial are. This season is the first we've had a functional left winger for years.

 

[He'sRaldo]

What's that got to do with the excuses for Rooney and Martial? One of the excuses for Rooney was that he needed pacey players around him, it was bollocks, just like the excuses for Martial are. This season is the first we've had a functional left winger for years.

And surprise, take away that man and we struggle even more for goals, when our right wing is nonexistent.

Even if Martial doesn't have a specific setup to get the best out of him, at the very least have a functional team. Not Mata on the right, Fernandes as DM, and Pereira on the left, Shaw and AWB as attacking fullbacks, and then say the striker will never be good enough. Even more so when he's our 2nd top scorer this season and we look equally as clueless when he's out.

 

[littleman]

Mythical? When last did we have a right winger? Or a functional right wing?

Maybe we shouldn't bother with Sancho, we're good right? It's all a myth.

Wow, cry some more AM9 employee

 

[He'sRaldo]

Wow, cry some more AM9 employee

Poor bait.

 

[littleman]

And surprise, take away that man and we struggle even more for goals, when our right wing is nonexistent.

Even if Martial doesn't have a specific setup to get the best out of him, at the very least have a functional team. Not Mata on the right, Fernandes as DM, and Pereira on the left, Shaw and AWB as attacking fullbacks, and then say the striker will never be good enough. Even more so when he's our 2nd top scorer this season and we look equally as clueless when he's out.

We didn't buy Martial to build a team around him, he's not that level of worldie

Otherwise we can start talking about how Peter Crouch wasn't utilized properly

No one in world football ever does poorly -- we're just not utilizing them properly

Pretty sure we can also make a case for Totti not actually needing to retire, we just need a team around him so he can walk around and spray passes like a master

 

[Denis79]

Bullshit. The narrative always changes with him.

When he was on the left: No, he should be played as a striker, we're wasting his talent.

When he's in the middle: No, he should be on the left.

He's never the one to blame. Always everyone else.

Have to agree with this, a lot of excuses made for his poor form that has lasted a long time.

 

[He'sRaldo]

We didn't buy Martial to build a team around him, he's not that level of worldie

Otherwise we can start talking about how Peter Crouch wasn't utilized properly

No one in world football ever does poorly -- we're just not utilizing them properly

Pretty sure we can also make a case for Totti not actually needing to retire, we just need a team around him so he can walk around and spray passes like a master

And I'm not even saying that we must. I'm saying that we must build a functional team. Did the team yesterday look functional and complementary to you?

If we build a good team and Martial doesn't fit, then that's fine, bye bye or maybe the bench. But build that team first before getting rid of the 2nd top scorer like we got rid of Lukaku. Learn from the previous mistakes.

 

[Green_Red]

RVP said Martial and Rashford made intelligent runs which are never picked out by the midfield or the ball playing defenders.

If a player keeps making the runs and never receiving the ball because the team around him are inept to make the pass then would he keep making the same run? We will find when Bruno plays if it is him or the team.

I was going to say, he is a player that needs better service from midfield.

 

[Bebestation]

@He'sRaldo

Just leave it man - these 'fans of United' are calling you employees of Martial - like how poor is that?

This clubs fan system is utter dirt & a pure gold diggers whilst we were on top - literally ears any player it has whilst it doesn't win.

People crying that Martial isn't Zlatan when they play in two opposite ways needining two different wing systems to get the best of them - but of course majority of these peoples understanding of of tactics are so average just like Martial when playing next to Mata & James making runs off him

 

[AnotherDayIsToday]

Martial(king of smile) is one of the players United have to get rid off. He has been in United for 5 years he cant even speak English.
He give a shit if United loose or win. Hes body language is terrible. He ability to pass a defender is 0. Sell him even for 100 dollar ,Enough said.

 

[TheRedHearted]

We've seen him been very useful in certain systems this season. He is an effective striker- in an effective system. We don't seem to have much of a system. Wan-Bissaka is the only one who consistently puts in runs after he passes the ball and Dan James refused to pass to him multiple times yesterday. It doesn't work when we walk with the ball and no on makes a move. I agree Martial should be instructed to be a nuisance for these CB's, not just shoulder to shoulder. I think it all comes to the fact that he needs to play deeper. When he's up there isolated he's not useful. When he starts deeper then we break with the ball and he speeds into space he's very hard to defend.

 

[littleman]

@He'sRaldo

Just leave it man - these 'fans of United' are calling you employees of Martial - like how poor is that?

This clubs fan system is utter dirt & a pure gold diggers whilst we were on top - literally ears any player it has whilst it doesn't win.

People crying that Martial isn't Zlatan when they play in two opposite ways needining two different wing systems to get the best of them - but of course majority of these peoples understanding of of tactics are so average just like Martial when playing next to Mata & James making runs off him

Right and you're a tactical master posting on an online forum

Grow up kid

 

[Bebestation]

Right and you're a tactical master posting on an online forum

Grow up kid

Yes little man I need to grow up calling other people employees of a player for supporting a united player - I need to grow up?

Go. Do your own thing little man? I never talked to you.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I think as a whole our biggest problem is the midfields lack of ability to make the pass. They are terrified of giving it away. Rashford and Martial make runs and look for 1-2’s and create space but the supporting cast without Pogba just isn’t there. Mata, Lingard and Perreria are the worst culprits at the club and they are quickly followed by James.

Time and time again the trio that are supposed to be the ones that link midfield to attack are the ones that kill all moves. Even yesterday they would again turn away from the obvious pass that would do damage. They also take way too long to do anything. Watch City today and even Spurs it was quick slick passing 1 touch. Not our lot. They need to hold on to it for 20 secs and dance about whilst the oppertunity ends so that they can eventually turn back and either lose the ball or send it back to be recirculated again.

Its ridiculous how players getting paid 1000’s a week and some even being high class internationals can’t grasp one of the most basic principles of football. They are all just terrified.

Bruno yesterday had some passes that didn’t come off but thank heavens we had someone willing to try the hard passes as without Pogba there is no one to do it.

Really coming to the end of how much more I can tolerate of Mata, Lingard and Perreria

 

[thepolice123]

The Rooney playbook is being used..

"Not a winger he's really a striker"
"Not really a striker he's a special type of striker"
"Actually no he's really a left winger"
"He just needs a manager"

Maybe it's just Martial being Martial

Tbf were there really such excuses for Rooney? Seemed he always bore the brunt of our supporters' frustrations. And the fact that he was used as a defensive player on the wings were pretty legitimate.

The "Nani must play on right wing" excuse puzzled me the most.

 

[peridigm]

The Rooney playbook is being used..

"Not a winger he's really a striker"
"Not really a striker he's a special type of striker"
"Actually no he's really a left winger"
"He just needs a manager"

Maybe it's just Martial being Martial

He’s had opportunity to play across the front 3 under 3 managers. He looked the best on the left under LVG but even that was inconsistent.

 

[Tarrou]

It's a bit of both.

But mostly the team. It's like we've suddenly realised we don't score enough from crosses and set-pieces, or poachery type goals and blamed it all on him. That's never been Martial's game, though he could obviously work on improving that aspect of his game.

 

[Tony247]

Martial is lazy and I am not his fan. If we sell him and get a half decent replacement then we will be a better team.

Having said that we also should consider the team around our CFs. Yestersay even when city played with 10 their movement in final third was exquisite and that too when spurs were defending in numbers (two rows of 5 and 4) around the box hoping for counter. Yet city midifield led by KDB were managed to open them up quite easily. The fact is our midifield is impotent, utter shite when pogba is not there.

I am looking forward how we play when pogba and bruno play together. Excited with the prospect. But just one of them playing is not going to do any wonders.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Both.

He has his own problems - movement (better now) and decline in dribbling. But it's also soul destroying for a forward to play in a team so devoid of creativity, fluidity and rate of creation of good chances. We have huge structural problems that need a quality modern coach to fix. It's why Pogba looks poor as well. Or Rashford was being written off as a kick and run merchant sometime back.

 

[Sky1981]

Peter Crouch can be twice the player he was if he's playing for United 1999 team.

Great players shows wherever they go. Optimum? Probably not, but you don't lose that greatness just because you're playing in a shit team.

 

[Kappa123]

He's a close control merchant. Literally all he does is try to take on defenders and sometimes combine in little triangles. He doesn't move at all and his decision making isn't good enough. Just get rid tbh.

 

[markhughes]

I just dont think he is very good. Can anyone name a worse regular striker for Man Utd in the last 20 years? The only one I can think of is Wellbeck and I wouldn't call him a regular as such.

For me he is at best towards the bottom of the list however people seem to fall over backwards to try and make excuses for him.

 

[Tony247]

Peter Crouch can be twice the player he was if he's playing for United 1999 team.

Great players shows wherever they go. Optimum? Probably not, but you don't lose that greatness just because you're playing in a shit team.

Agree.

 

[Son]

Martial will always be great to watch but I can’t ever imagine him ending up more than a luxury forward for us in the long run... To win major titles he needs to be a rotation player long term.

He’s improved his all round game a lot in the past year and I’ll give him props for that. There’s a reason he’s hardly ever in the French side though and it’s not because he isn’t talented enough.