Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[lsd]

Solskjaer being a winner as a player has absolutely no bearing to his credentials managing a football team, as his career has shown thus far.

Yeah because the players really responded to Van Gaal and Jose didn't they ?

Again if they have no respect for a person who knows what it takes to win at Utd then they should not be at the club .

Too many of these players are vastly overpaid average squad players at best who have done nothing to suggest they respect managers who have won at the higest level or ex players who have won at the highest level.

To even think they have the right to criticize Ole or disrespect his opinion is disgusting .

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Hahaha that summarizes it, I don’t understand while you throw a very likely possibility according to you so I should accept your reality.

Not going to repply anymore mate, cheers.

According to me? I gave you lot of evidences and even an article of link. But you gave me absolutely NOTHING. All you are doing is "it's manager's fault because we didn't sign a striker". Like WTF

In your mind right now, you think the transfer business is that simple that it's manager's fault. You are still in a denial to the fact that we wanted to sign a striker since summer (linked with Icardi, Dybala & Mandzukic) and even negotiated with Dybala's agent about the wages & contract term. Are they not in the category of strikers to you?

How can you justify that the manager didn't want to replace the player? Based on what? I bet you will still ignore this question because as always you are blindly blaming a manager with no logic & evidence.

 

[hobbers]

Ole is a winner which is more than our current players can say. If they can't respect what a true winner like Ole has to say then they have no place at Utd .

Tell that to Cardiff and to Molde after his second stint managing them.

 

[MikeKing]

Tell that to Cardiff and to Molde after his second stint managing them.

There is different expectations at United. Players shouldn't be able to cry and make a fuzz to get the manager sacked when they are being held accountable for their performances, just so they can continue to play like shit with another shitty manager coming in to keep playing the same mediocre players that didn't perform earlier. United isn't some mid-table club or championship club where that is exactable behaviour. We want to win, we wont do that with weak, unfocused players lacking the feeling of responsibility.

 

[L1nk]

There is different expectations at United. Players shouldn't be able to cry and make a fuzz to get the manager sacked when they are being held accountable for their performances, just so they can continue to play like shit with another shitty manager coming in to keep playing the same mediocre players that didn't perform earlier. United isn't some mid-table club or championship club where that is exactable behaviour. We want to win, we wont do that with weak, unfocused players lacking the feeling of responsibility.

United isn't some mid table or championship club, yet hire and watch people clamber for, a manager who didn't do very well in the Norwegian league and his only other stint, got a club relegated and took them into relegation form in the Championship. Apparently that's fine, but players, no no no.

 

[Tarrou]

Still in the 'ole out' brigade. Personally don't see anything tactically from him, no plan 'b'. And as for this clearing out the deadwood, smalling and sanchez could both end up back here next season, anders had obviously already made his mind up to leave and he let's lukaku go without no replacement. I appreciate some of these issues may not be on ole, but what about the Jones /Young contract extensions? (new deal in young case) he's also served up some of the worst football since moyes. Had done nothing to warrant getting the job in the 1st place and now for some reason he's apparently entrusted with a complete reboot. Don't be fooled the only reason we are anywhere near 4th place is due to other teams general crapiness. Just my opinion though......

But there was actually a plan B against Watford? In the first half, we set-up so the full-backs provided the width, with James and Greenwood playing narrow. Fred was also playing a bit deeper to help cover when the full-backs pushed on. We were set-up to break down a team sitting deep.

Except Watford didn't sit deep. So in the second half Ole made a tactical change by instructing the wide players to stay wide, which opened up the space for the likes of Bruno to operate in and we were much improved.

(FWIW I am not beholding Ole as some tactical genius here, but he clearly had a positive tactical influence on the game this weekend).

 

[Tarrou]

I think the poll should have a 'give Ole until the end of the season, then decide' option, which is what I'd go for

 

[lsd]

United isn't some mid table or championship club, yet hire and watch people clamber for, a manager who didn't do very well in the Norwegian league and his only other stint, got a club relegated and took them into relegation form in the Championship. Apparently that's fine, but players, no no no.

United have failed to make top four four times in six seasons since fergie left . Jose failed twice to achieve it .

If Ole manages it in his first season despite the injuries he has faced and the media flak it will be a fantastic achievement yet people like you will still moan he isn't a good manager

 

[Mr Smith]

Even if he does that. Do you really want Ole managing us in the Champs League next season?

Probably not, but there's always a possibility I'm wrong. The fact that we've improved so much with Bruno could suggest Ole may produce improved results with just a few better players. I doubt it, and would still prefer Poch in, but I'm not yet ruling out being proven wrong.

 

[L1nk]

United have failed to make top four four times in six seasons since fergie left . Jose failed twice to achieve it .

If Ole manages it in his first season despite the injuries he has faced and the media flak it will be a fantastic achievement yet people like you will still moan he isn't a good manager

Literally every team from 4th and under has been absolute garbage this season in comparison to a normal season though, and you know this, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal have been horrendous, so you could either argue that we should be higher if Solskjaer is as great as you think he is, or the fact he has swimming amongst this lot is poor. So again, you can argue about injuries and media flak all you want like we're the only team and only manager who's had to deal with that this season. Let's see where we end up, but if we end up below Sheffield and co then it's been a disaster considering how shite the opposition around us has been.

 

[Bastian]

Ole is a winner which is more than our current players can say. If they can't respect what a true winner like Ole has to say then they have no place at Utd .

Sound logic...

Yes but i don't want to hear some overpaid footballer who has won nothing in his life and has no idea of how privileged he is wearing a Utd top having the nerve to say he doesn't respect what a legend like Solskjaer has to say about playing for the club .

Ole has earned the right the current players have not

So did Gary Neville earn the right to take the reins at Valencia? Or Henry at Monaco? We should probably ask Seedorf to become our next manager, because he will win more than anyone else, he's definitely earned the right hasn't he.

 

[USREDEVIL]

If we do well next year it will be mainly despite Ole's management not because of it. We will only be holding the team back by keeping him in charge. But i do like him, the positivity he's brought, and the focus on youth and long-term. But a manager's main job is to set up the team tactically, make good substitutions, and arrange for coaching to make the players and team better. And i just don't think he's done enough "top level managing" from what i've seen. Do we really want to be a counter-attacking team for the long term?

 

[L1nk]

Sound logic...



So did Gary Neville earn the right to take the reins at Valencia? Or Henry at Monaco? We should probably ask Seedorf to become our next manager, because he will win more than anyone else, he's definitely earned the right hasn't he.

Remember, he played for us, doesn't matter his career as a manager has pretty much been as substandard as possible in some of the worst clubs on the world stage, he's earned the right because he used to play for us, that's he has the magic secret sauce to bring us back to the top that these other good managers just don't have.

 

[Dante]

If we do well next year it will be mainly despite Ole's management not because of it. We will only be holding the team back by keeping him in charge. But i do like him, the positivity he's brought, and the focus on youth and long-term. But a manager's main job is to set up the team tactically, make good substitutions, and arrange for coaching to make the players and team better. And i just don't think he's done enough "top level managing" from what i've seen. Do we really want to be a counter-attacking team for the long term?

If you think of Sir Alex Ferguson as being the best ever Director of Football and the best ever coach rolled into one, Ole is doing a decent job of emulating the DOF aspect of the job but relatively poorly at the coaching part of it. With that in mind I'm happy to keep Ole at the club at least in some capacity. He's certainly got the right philosophy, though whether that's best utilised as manager or not remains to be seen.

If we buy a few top players in the summer, I think it's only fair to give Ole a chance to coach them and see if he can do a better job with players whose mentality fits in with his leadership demands.

The fact that Ole has improved Rashford, McTominay, Fred, Williams and Shaw is proof that he can cut it with a certain profile of mentally strong individuals. If Bruno, Maguire, Grealish and a couple of others can follow suit, we'll be a really good team.

Not all managers can work with all types of staff. You could argue that Wenger was similar, but that didn't stop him from being an all-time-great when got the formula right. The key will be to ensure we don't stick with Ole when the squad starts to get stylistically out of sync with the manager. For all our issues - and we have a few - the stylistic profile is one that's getting better, not worse. Ole obviously knows what he wants, so I wouldn't mind letting him see it through to its conclusion.

 

[Tarrou]

Remember, he played for us, doesn't matter his career as a manager has pretty much been as substandard as possible in some of the worst clubs on the world stage, he's earned the right because he used to play for us, that's he has the magic secret sauce to bring us back to the top that these other good managers just don't have.

I don't think anyone actually thinks this, or at least very few hold this opinion

a more accurate portrayal would be some fans give him too much leeway because he's a United legend (myself included, probably)

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

To be fair, the premier league now is not the one we experienced 10-15 years ago, the level have been improved, the gap between top and bottom is smaller compare to SAF era. Its extremely hard to get into top 4, even you are spending. He should be giving time.

Other than City and Liverpool, the quality of the PL is pretty low. Leicester are only where they are because of Rodgers. Top 4 should be pretty easy with the squad we have.

 

[M16Red]

Other than City and Liverpool, the quality of the PL is pretty low. Leicester are only where they are because of Rodgers. Top 4 should be pretty easy with the squad we have.

We have now or the one that has Young, Lukaku, Smalling, Lingard, Mata all still playing? Maybe Sanchez? Maybe Jose might have Fred playing by now?

It's weird when you look just how much this team has changed over 12 months.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

According to me? I gave you lot of evidences and even an article of link. But you gave me absolutely NOTHING. All you are doing is "it's manager's fault because we didn't sign a striker". Like WTF

In your mind right now, you think the transfer business is that simple that it's manager's fault. You are still in a denial to the fact that we wanted to sign a striker since summer (linked with Icardi, Dybala & Mandzukic) and even negotiated with Dybala's agent about the wages & contract term. Are they not in the category of strikers to you?

How can you justify that the manager didn't want to replace the player? Based on what? I bet you will still ignore this question because as always you are blindly blaming a manager with no logic & evidence.

He's got nothing. Most of the guys here denouncing Ole seem to be blabbering pretty much the same recycled stuff they have been saying for ages now. Look at the career he's had. No tactical acumen despite evidence to the contrary. Great luck with transfers. Multiple players magically started performing well.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

So did Gary Neville earn the right to take the reins at Valencia? Or Henry at Monaco? We should probably ask Seedorf to become our next manager, because he will win more than anyone else, he's definitely earned the right hasn't he.

Why not Zidane or Pep? Did they?

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

If you think of Sir Alex Ferguson as being the best ever Director of Football and the best ever coach rolled into one, Ole is doing a decent job of emulating the DOF aspect of the job but relatively poorly at the coaching part of it. With that in mind I'm happy to keep Ole at the club at least in some capacity. He's certainly got the right philosophy, though whether that's best utilised as manager or not remains to be seen.

If we buy a few top players in the summer, I think it's only fair to give Ole a chance to coach them and see if he can do a better job with players whose mentality fits in with his leadership demands.

The fact that Ole has improved Rashford, McTominay, Fred, Williams and Shaw is proof that he can cut it with a certain profile of mentally strong individuals. If Bruno, Maguire, Grealish and a couple of others can follow suit, we'll be a really good team.

Not all managers can work with all types of staff. You could argue that Wenger was similar, but that didn't stop him from being an all-time-great when got the formula right. The key will be to ensure we don't stick with Ole when the squad starts to get stylistically out of sync with the manager. For all our issues - and we have a few - the stylistic profile is one that's getting better, not worse. Ole obviously knows what he wants, so I wouldn't mind letting him see it through to its conclusion.

Yes excited to see where this leads with the right personnel for Ole's gameplan. Not Ole in completely but you have to be blinkered not to see visible progress. Great post!

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Why not Zidane or Pep? Did they?

Their clubs took a chance on them based on their work at the club. They were unknown quantities, unlike Ole who has been in management for over a decade.
Zidane and Pep then earned the right to stay on by their performances on the pitch and trophies they won. If they had the worst start points wise in their club's history, do you think they would have been allowed to continue.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Their clubs took a chance on them based on their work at the club. They were unknown quantities, unlike Ole who has been in management for over a decade.
Zidane and Pep then earned the right to stay on by their performances on the pitch and trophies they won. If they had the worst start points wise in their club's history, do you think they would have been allowed to continue.

The examples given were all unknown in management at an higher level just like Ole. Zidane/Pep earned the right with trophies - Ole hasn't had a full season yet. Also both were at a much more higher level squad wise than we were. We have been in a need for a major overhaul for a while now.

But I agree. We as a fan base are probably giving a bit of leeway to Ole because of his past with us. I can see tangible progress despite the points total. Injuries and major gaps in squad were obvious when the season started tbf. If we had a full squad and most of our starters (we still don't have a RW) we could judge him more harshly. As of now he should be given a chance.

 

[RedBanker]

Why not Zidane or Pep? Did they?

Guardiola's first season in charge was arguably Barcelona's finest in their entire history.They became the first-ever Spanish side to win the famed treble consisting of La Liga, the Copa del Rey and the UEFA Champions League. Guardiola was instantly catapulted into the spotlight after the club suffered a poor final season under Frank Rijkaard the previous year.
He won 27 games out of 38 in his first season.

"Since taking over as the boss at the Bernabeu on January 4, 2016, Zidane has led the club to three trophies — the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Super Cup and the Club World Cup. Racking up three trophies in a year is impressive, but even more impressive is that he’s lost just two matches … total.

That’s right, Zidane has more trophies than losses.


Real Madrid had just fired Rafa Benitez, a manager who hadn’t just lost some matches and had the team playing disjointed, vulnerable soccer — he had upset most everyone at the club. Ronaldo was sending out signals that he’d leave the club and the same was true of Bale. It took all of four months for Benitez to light the team on fire, essentially. And it came in the season after Real Madrid went trophy-less, costing Carlo Ancelotti his job. There were questions about the squad, its balance, its future and most everything else.

That is the team Zidane took over"

He Won 17 out of 20 league games in his first season.
He won 29 out of 38 league games in his first full season.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Guardiola's first season in charge was arguably Barcelona's finest in their entire history.They became the first-ever Spanish side to win the famed treble consisting of La Liga, the Copa del Rey and the UEFA Champions League. Guardiola was instantly catapulted into the spotlight after the club suffered a poor final season under Frank Rijkaard the previous year.
He won 27 games out of 38 in his first season.

"Since taking over as the boss at the Bernabeu on January 4, 2016, Zidane has led the club to three trophies — the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Super Cup and the Club World Cup. Racking up three trophies in a year is impressive, but even more impressive is that he’s lost just two matches … total.

That’s right, Zidane has more trophies than losses.


Real Madrid had just fired Rafa Benitez, a manager who hadn’t just lost some matches and had the team playing disjointed, vulnerable soccer — he had upset most everyone at the club. Ronaldo was sending out signals that he’d leave the club and the same was true of Bale. It took all of four months for Benitez to light the team on fire, essentially. And it came in the season after Real Madrid went trophy-less, costing Carlo Ancelotti his job. There were questions about the squad, its balance, its future and most everything else.

That is the team Zidane took over"

He Won 17 out of 20 league games in his first season.
He won 29 out of 38 league games in his first full season.

Are you daft?

I was not comparing them. Ole has the right to say things without being questioned by the players (not us/pundits but his own players) just like Zidane /Pep did because of what they have achieved in the game. I mentioned them since the poster bought up Neville and other failed managers.. By same logic we should include these 2 successful managers also.

 

[RedBanker]

Are you daft?

I was not comparing them. Ole has the right to say things without being questioned by the players (not us/pundits but his own players) just like Zidane /Pep did because of what they have achieved in the game.

Seems like some will push their agenda even if it doesn't suit the narrative.

Not as daft as those whole will defend Solskjaer with whatever goes against anything finger that comes against their lord and savior. We all know who are the agenda driven zombies on here.

Whatever a player does at a club does not and should not give them immunity when they join as a manager. Pep and Zidane, names you dropped so nonchalantly, did their talking on the pitch with results. They earned that immunity against criticism through their managerial acumen and results and trophies.

Even numbskulls know that if Zidane or Pep were even 50percent as woeful as Solskjaer they would be sacked in their first seasons and not just criticized.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Not as daft as those whole will defend Solskjaer with whatever goes against anything finger that comes against their lord and savior. We all know who are the agenda driven zombies on here.

Whatever a player does at a club does not and should not give them immunity when they join as a manager. Pep and Zidane, names you dropped so nonchalantly, did their talking on the pitch with results. They earned that immunity against criticism through their managerial acumen and results and trophies.

Even numbskulls know that if Zidane or Pep were even 50percent as woeful as Solskjaer they would be sacked in their first seasons and not just criticized.

Again, was not comparing them. Please reread the post. And I'm not Ole In or whatever camps people have made. I'm just not blinkered enough to not see the positives and go on with posting/drivel just for the sake of it.

 

[Snow]

They earned that immunity against criticism through their managerial acumen and results and trophies.

Thank Christ that you italicized that bit or I might have missed it.

Also try not to call people daft if you think they disagree with you, especially when you miss the mark of the post yourself.

 

[RedBanker]

Thank Christ that you italicized that bit or I might have missed it.

Also try not to call people daft if you think they disagree with you, especially when you miss the mark of the post yourself.

What was the mark of the post eh genius? And who called whom daft?

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

We have now or the one that has Young, Lukaku, Smalling, Lingard, Mata all still playing? Maybe Sanchez? Maybe Jose might have Fred playing by now?

It's weird when you look just how much this team has changed over 12 months.

Jose's squad finished 2nd with over 80 points before he decided to sabotage it. Although I would say that was it's limit. Our current squad on paper should be 3rd and my hope is it has a higher limit with the right additions.

 

[Snow]

What was the mark of the post eh genius? And who called whom daft?

That he wasn't comparing they're results but their chance at the job. Again with the namecalling. You might want to give the Rules Violation a little read.

 

[RedBanker]

That he wasn't comparing they're results but their chance at the job. Again with the namecalling. You might want to give the Rules Violation a little read.

I have. Other haven't. And if you can read you will see who used the word daft first to me directly. If you choose to see that is.

Chance at the job? Can't be arsed anymore but you missed the mark of my reply regarding that buddy.

 

[Snow]

I have. Other haven't. And if you can read you will see who used the word daft first to me directly. If you choose to see that is.

Chance at the job? Can't be arsed anymore but you missed the mark of my reply regarding that buddy.

You're pulling a kindergarten defense?

Yes a chance at the job. Pep has yet to take a job that doesn't have a squad that isn't already one of if not the best squad in the world. Ole hasn't that luxury. He took over a squad that was playing badly and a team that had been playing badly for more than 5 years. It's been evident to everyone that at the beginning of the season the squad was sorely lacking and short of an injury free season we'd not finish top 4. As it happened he lost Pogba for pretty much the whole season and Rashford for more than half yet now the team looks better than it has ever been under his charge and unsurprisingly that has come with time and some sorely needed quality and stabilization in midfield (Matic-Fred and Bruno). The squad is still some ways off but for me, as bad as it looked in October the season has looked above what I expected. It would make no sense to sack him at this point.

 

[RedBanker]

If stating facts is pulling a whatever defense then suit yourself.

This is what I replied to
" Ole has the right to say things without being questioned by the players (not us/pundits but his own players) just like Zidane /Pep did because of what they have achieved in the game."

And I stated their records to convey that they won the respect or RIGHT through their performances as manager. Not their fables as legendary players. I don't recall Pep or Zidane ever saying that they had a right to say things without being questioned because they were legends. So from where did the OP get the idea? Players have a right to question tactics or training or even soundbytes when there is a need to defend themselves. Of course that need arises when the results are not up to the mark and in general both manager and players are hauled up. But no manager can claim immunity from internal critique just because they did well as a player.

So Solksjaer has a right to say things? Definitely yes
Does he have a right to say things without being questioned by his players? Hell no.
Can he win such a right? Hell yes, once his methods produce results.

You did not need to go into that long kindergarten defence of Solskjaer for this.

 

[M16Red]

Jose's squad finished 2nd with over 80 points before he decided to sabotage it. Although I would say that was it's limit. Our current squad on paper should be 3rd and my hope is it has a higher limit with the right additions.

And only 19 points behind, and 6th the season before..

On paper is that team playing without injuries?

Agreed, hats off to Ole for creating a younger team with a higher ceiling.

 

[lsd]

Other than City and Liverpool, the quality of the PL is pretty low. Leicester are only where they are because of Rodgers. Top 4 should be pretty easy with the squad we have.

So why have we failed in 4 of 6 seasons

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

And only 19 points behind, and 6th the season before..

On paper is that team playing without injuries?

Agreed, hats off to Ole for creating a younger team with a higher ceiling.

We are 38 points behind and will probably be 50 points behind by the end of the season.

Pogba isn't going to be here next season so injury to him doesn't matter. The squad being so thin is because Ole wanted it that way as per his comments.

My hope is he is creating a squad with a higher ceiling. The evidence currently is that we are worse but again, just hoping it is because we are young. I had the same hope under LVG and we are here.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

So why have we failed in 4 of 6 seasons

Wrong manager choices throughout. We can see that from where those managers are now.
Moyes is Moyes. LVG retired. Jose is showing his downfall at another club. Although all those managers had more points than Ole. How does that happen?

I am hoping against hope that we are building a squad for the future and that is why we are so awful to watch and have so few points. But I had the same hope under LVG and he actually was known for nurturing talent and showed a clear style on the pitch which in hindsight was out dated. I feel counterattacking is even more outdated at the top level than LVG style.

 

[Escobar]

So why have we failed in 4 of 6 seasons

Poor managers, poor CEO, shitty owners

 

[morbidsaint]

Castles said on the Transfer Window podcast: “An interesting comment Solskjaer made after the game was when being asked about Luke Shaw and talking about how he was encouraging Luke Shaw to play more attacking football, he threw in this line: ‘I keep encouraging them to do more of what they're good at and when they listen we'll be a good team’.
“Now, for me that’s a fine thing to say when you’ve won a match but I think it’s a bit of a dangerous thing to say because the implication of that are that Manchester United’s results this season, they’ve won 11 from 27 in the Premier League, the implication of that is that everything that’s gone wrong this season is players not listening to what the manager has told them.
“I know for a fact that there are men in that training ground, in that camp, who do not believe Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is a top level manager, aren’t impressed by many of the things he’s told them to do through his time as manager, and I doubt they will be very impressed with the idea that everything that’s gone wrong this season is them failing to listen to what Solskjaer has told them to do.”

Well, who are those players? He knows for a fact, so give names or just shut up. Hate this bullshit. Words are coming out, but they tell you nothing. "I KNOW MAN, FOR A FACT MAN". Prove it, or shut up.

 

[Anustart89]

Well, who are those players? He knows for a fact, so give names or just shut up. Hate this bullshit. Words are coming out, but they tell you nothing. "I KNOW MAN, FOR A FACT MAN". Prove it, or shut up.

Do you think anyone would ever tell him anything if they knew he would out them?