What are you talking about
Honestly, we are not that far away...
- Thread starter Maluco
- Start date
We are not too far away, yes i agree, but it is worrying how when we need a good performance we are often found wanting and go through periods where we can't create anything at all. That bit about us failing to win times this season when Chelsea also dropped points is worrying. I see some encouraging signs in our play though and whatever you may say about ole and his competence he hasn't lost the dressing room.
We are Manchester United so there should be expections. And if you look at our squad squad and put some thought into why someone would feel 'we aren't that far off' then I have to say I agree with them. I've also given my reasons to why I agree with the OP.
That was a footballing miracle. If we need a miracle we are far off.
Leicester is a once in a bluemoon thing.What are you talking about
You can't really point at them look, leicester did it, so can we.
I'd rather we replace Martial as a starter and buy someone who has a different mentality even if he is less talented, who is prepared to be on it all game and every game not when it suits him. Even though a new DM would be ideal I think we will do well to go big on a Right Winger and Striker and continue with McTominay, Fred and Matic in midfield with Garner taking up a squad role, at least for the first half of the season. If we get Gimenez and Sancho we will surely create and score more goals whilst even after selling off Jones and Rojo we'd have enough depth at CB, we just need the manager to recognize that Lindelof brings nothing to his partnership with Maguire and go for Bailly or Tuanzebe as his primary partners.
After that we have to look at the coaching, you can have a better squad but its impact is neutralized if the manager's in-game management is poor. For far too many times we have seized control of the first half and lost it when the opposing manager makes a tactical switch that Ole takes too long to react too resulting in us losing our impetus. Ideally I would have him replaced but I accept that the club may not be thinking along these lines as he has done well in some tough matches and still has the support of the dressing room and match going fans. If he stays he has to identify a progressive coach to come in and help him with some tactical aspects that he is weak on such as how we play when we have the ball, how to consistently open up deep defences and in-game management.
We're counting our next seasons team using this season competitions as standards, it rarely goes right.
If we add 1-2 players, it doesn't mean we jump 3-4 position, it simply means we keep on par with City / Chelsea / Hotspur / Leicester who will also adds 1-2 players. Liverpool will also strengthen, if not their main team at least they'll keep 1-2 coming for rotation. City could splash the cash, Mourinho Hotspur will have his preseason, Leicester and wolves etc aren't static too.
We (including me) thought City 100pts is an anomaly and unrepeatable, but Liverpool this season did exactly that.
So, no, we're not that close, it's a long way ahead.
He did some good and some bad. Any enthusiasm for him must surely be tempered. It’s okay to change our minds about players, coaches, managers. Heck, Lingard looked promising for a while.
I certainly would not chuck out the present management team for someone with Poch’s record. And if we say “who cares about his record” let’s look at the shite football and terrible results he got with a decent enough squad. And if we don’t care about that, what’s left?
We don't need a miracle. The issue currently is that we're having problems with transitioning play from defence to attack to a high level which is giving the so called lesser teams a grip in central areas. We're yet to see Pogba and Bruno together aswell which will help with the build up and creativity. Our RW options are not good enough either.
Three players would completely galvanise the team imo. Denis Zakaria would be a excellent choice to transition play from the backline and build play from a deeper role. He's a good passer of the ball too and is a very mobile player that is physically and technically very good and would be invaluable in both offensive and defensive transitions. He's also playing under Marco Rose currently who is one of the best up and coming young forward thinking coaches in the game. So Zakaria will also be well drilled tactically which will be beneficial to any club that wants to play fast fluid attacking football.
If Pogba stays then i'd sign a CB who is excellent at bringing the ball out from defence, excellent aerially, lightening quick. Ibrahima Konate fits the profile and is accustomed to playing the high press and will without question allow us to play a high defensive line which would help in boxing the opponent in their own half. But if Pogba leaves then i'd prioritise a box to box CM with craft and guile to act as the conduit between the DM/backline and Bruno/attack, which would enhance the quality of our build up.
Sancho as the RW would make the team look very balanced. Pogba, Bruno and Zakaria in midfield. Rashford, Martial and Sancho in attack. AWB, Maguire, Konate, Shaw/Williams in the backline. We would still need to tweak things in the future transfer windows but that team would have more than enough to take us very close to the likes of Liverpool and more than raise spirits among the United faithful.
But lets not also forget that we went into this season woefully outgunned by most if not all of our rivals so, with the addition of Fernandez, a RW and a striker, we should see an improvement. Obviously that improvement won't be enough to build a title winning side but we were never going from 6th to 1st in just two seasons. Another thing is don't expect all teams ahead of us to maintain their levels or even improve, for example who genuinely thought that City would be 22 points behind Liverpool at this stage of the season? The level Liverpool are at is difficult to sustain as City have shown because they were at a similar level for the past two seasons.
The one thing that will hold us back is our propensity to to embark on halfhearted rebuilds, I understand that it wasn't financially feasible to do both Maguire, Sancho and Fernandes in one go but I can't help but wonder whether we wouldn't be 3rd on the log if we had those three in instead of wasting half a season on Pereira, Lingard and James! Same will happen next summer, we will probably sign Sancho/another RW and a CM at a push but leave ourselves relying on Martial once again then spend the whole of next season debating where a top striker can take this team. In my view, we should push the financial threshold like Real Madrid did last summer and deliver all the players needed because, at the end of the day, the costs of missing out on CL football are just too great in terms of broadcasting and matchday income in addition to lost prestige. Paying a little more interest won't hurt as much as missing out on 50m to 80m in lost revenue.
We have the lure and financial superiority over the likes of Spurs, Leicester, Wolves. We can easily jump 3/4 positions, and I expect us to finish next season ahead of all three and Chelsea for that matter.
Last edited:
I agree with this, if we get players like Sancho and Zakaria in we will have the 3rd best squad in the land but instead of a CB I think we need a central striker more because I feel that Martial is not reliable in terms of effort and mentality. So whilst he might be exciting, talented and capable of jaw dropping moments of brilliance I think we need someone who is more ready to run the channels, harass defenders and score the ugly goals that Ole constantly speak of in addition to having technical talent. Even if we lost Pogba but still managed to get someone who is creative from the right I think McT and Zakaria would do well behind Bruno, I say this because I think that it will be difficult if not impossible to sign Sancho without selling a big player for a big fee.
Why is this thread still open?
..................De Gea.....................
AWB......Bailly.....Maguire....Shaw
..............McT.......Fred.................
.................Bruno........................
Sancho......STRIKER?........Rashford
Not far off at all. 2 players in the next window. I don't see us signing any more than that - we don't seem to want to do that now.
I've not named a striker as my first choice is Werner and I have a feeling Liverpool will get him.
AWB......Bailly.....Maguire....Shaw
..............McT.......Fred.................
.................Bruno........................
Sancho......STRIKER?........Rashford
Not far off at all. 2 players in the next window. I don't see us signing any more than that - we don't seem to want to do that now.
I've not named a striker as my first choice is Werner and I have a feeling Liverpool will get him.
On paper, you are correct. But the reality is, our squad needs are basically whack-a-mole and our board have no interest in signing more than 3 players per summer window it seems (based on recent history).
So whereas we currently need 4 x first teamers, we might get 2 of them in the summer. By the following summer, another 2 x first positions will become glaring needs again, meaning we're about "four top signings away from competing" again. We might get 2 of them, that summer....
And the cycle continues. Before you know it, we're still having this conversation in summer 2024.
So whereas we currently need 4 x first teamers, we might get 2 of them in the summer. By the following summer, another 2 x first positions will become glaring needs again, meaning we're about "four top signings away from competing" again. We might get 2 of them, that summer....
And the cycle continues. Before you know it, we're still having this conversation in summer 2024.
Seems like paranoia has taken a firm grip on many here.
But 3 signings in the summer would be really good actually, especially if they are first team signings. If we can get a RW, CM and another, we will be in a really good position.
We have a youthful team so getting 3 players now would not mean next summer we need 3 more.
If we look at the squad, we have majority of our players under 26.
I normally won’t be goaded, but I’m genuinely curious. If 15+ clubs would do anything for Poch, how is it he’s not signed? Any side can pay Levy and put him on the pitch at any time. No side is even rumored to be considering him as far as I know. Which is not to say he isn’t a great manager, but the comment I responded to was hyperbolic.
Declaring no one would hire Ole is both an unknown and, based on history, pure nonsense. Moyes found work after doing worse with us. I can’t recall a single manager from a top club, irrespective of results, who never found work again.
Mct and Fred in midfield doesn't sit well with me.
It's ok when we play the big teams and try to destroy their game, but against the rest of the teams, they don't have the quality I'm afraid.
Yeah, but just because someone is under 26 that doesn't automatically mean they're good enough or won't need upgrading next summer. I see the following positions as urgent for the summer (Pogba being sold):
1 x CM
1 x CDM
1 x RW
The following positions aren't urgent, but could well be a major issue by Christmas unless certain players kick on and sort their heads out:
LB
STR
CB
Just my feelings on the matter. It seems to be an endless rebuild from where I'm sitting, if the goal is to challenge for major honours.
Shaw has looked good lately, can he keep it up and stay fit? We need to hope so because Williams is still young, raw and learning.
Lindelöf is dodgy. Our alternatives are dodgy, too.
Martial is hot and cold. We clearly fancy a new striker or else Ole wouldnt have been in for Haaland.
They are probably both terrible coaches - because that is not their job
I'd say a striker is urgent , we're playing with a 30-year old from Chinese league on and off. Cant expect Martial to be fit all the time and definately cant expect him to perform in each and every game.
I think he will improve with Rashford back, but we still need a strong big physical presence in the box.
Get the next two signings right and we''ll be as good as anybody else in the Country this time next season, mark my words.
I get what you are trying to say, but any will will need constant improving, if we stand still we will get left behind.
I want to see if Shaw can stay fit for a good period. We have alot of players that are in the "injury prone" bracket. Mainly in defence really.
It's amazing that we fail to win every time Chelsea drop points, and yet somehow we've closed a gap that was at least 8 points at one stage (I think it was as much as 10??) and is now down to 3. Not sure how we did that.
We have some good young players and that makes me optimistic but we have no consistency in our performances so when you say that we are not far off I think we are a long way off from challenging for the title or being competitive in the Chmps League .
Posters will say we need Sancho and Haaland or whoever is the flavour of the month but what we need is the players at the club who were brought to the club to make us great again to look at themselves and be as good as they can be and not at those around them because it makes the team better.
I am sure that Vidic was a better player because he played with Rio, I am sure the Neville brothers and O Shea were better players because they played with Scholes and Keane.
When talented players leave everything out on the pitch at the end of the game it inspires the rest of the team to higher levels.
I have my doubts in regards to Ole being the man to command respect from these players to get a level of performance out of this team on a regular basis to win titles and maybe the players like him because he doesn’t push them that. hard and everyone can see he is a good bloke
Posters will say we need Sancho and Haaland or whoever is the flavour of the month but what we need is the players at the club who were brought to the club to make us great again to look at themselves and be as good as they can be and not at those around them because it makes the team better.
I am sure that Vidic was a better player because he played with Rio, I am sure the Neville brothers and O Shea were better players because they played with Scholes and Keane.
When talented players leave everything out on the pitch at the end of the game it inspires the rest of the team to higher levels.
I have my doubts in regards to Ole being the man to command respect from these players to get a level of performance out of this team on a regular basis to win titles and maybe the players like him because he doesn’t push them that. hard and everyone can see he is a good bloke
RAWKish thread and in reality even filling the necessary gaps does not guarantee success, as players need to be properly coached and integrated in the team in the first place.
Anyway if I were to say what the squad needs before it becomes competitive and can challenge for trophies/league:
- manager with decent tactical knowledge and excellent man management
- right winger/forward
- central midfielder (Pogba will leave)
- central back
- another top class full back (if it's Williams I will be the happiest, but we need quality ASAP)
Anyway if I were to say what the squad needs before it becomes competitive and can challenge for trophies/league:
- manager with decent tactical knowledge and excellent man management
- right winger/forward
- central midfielder (Pogba will leave)
- central back
- another top class full back (if it's Williams I will be the happiest, but we need quality ASAP)
Yeah, the best teams continuously strengthen even if in small doses, Fergie was the master of that until the final few years and 'no value in the market'. Part of our problem is for too long we've considered sub-par players to be 'decent enough' and have just renewed their contracts rather than upgrading them and therefore the team/squad as a whole.
We're still doing this unfortunately - see Mata, Jones, Pereira's new contracts in the summer or just before. I'm terrified of the same happening with Lingard and Matic, because Matic's good recent form should be an indicator that we need a new Matic - not an extension of the current one.
It's tricky to know exactly where we're at when we can't get our strongest team out on the pitch due to injuries. Our defending in open play is much better this season, if we could sort out our defending at set pieces then we'll be looking strong. The big issue for me is bringing in another consistent goal threat and pulling in some more quality in midfield.
We aren't far away though, we look a much better team since Bruno came in which is no real shock given it meant pushing Pereira/Lingard out of the starting eleven. It was a huge upgrade ultimately in a position we were crying out for given Pogbas injury.
We aren't far away though, we look a much better team since Bruno came in which is no real shock given it meant pushing Pereira/Lingard out of the starting eleven. It was a huge upgrade ultimately in a position we were crying out for given Pogbas injury.
If we are not far away we should have a strong team who can win consistently without Bruno.
If Bruno gets injured then we are bang average again playing lingard or pereira in his place. We are still 3 or 4 class players short. MCT and Fred are decent but fall short in class imo. Its one or the other in there, rotate but we need another 1, ideally 2 top quality midfielders who are can create as well as defend when needed.
We 100% need a top quality Centre forward, this season clearly evidences that we cannot rely on Rashford and Martial - and GreenWood isn’t ready.
Pogba will be gone in summer so he's not in the equation.
If Bruno gets injured then we are bang average again playing lingard or pereira in his place. We are still 3 or 4 class players short. MCT and Fred are decent but fall short in class imo. Its one or the other in there, rotate but we need another 1, ideally 2 top quality midfielders who are can create as well as defend when needed.
We 100% need a top quality Centre forward, this season clearly evidences that we cannot rely on Rashford and Martial - and GreenWood isn’t ready.
Pogba will be gone in summer so he's not in the equation.
I think they do, and I'm hoping they'll be even better next season. When Pogba and Matic go we will need numbers though. I'd just rather sign a RW and ST first.
Problem is. we say this literally every year.
Year 1 : it's a title winning squad, only need 1-2 world class player
Year 2 : we had World class teams, only need to wait for phylosophy to mature
Year 3: A manager away
year 4 : we had jose, give him time
Year 5 : A CB/RW and a modern manager away
Year 6: A RW, LB, STRIKER away
Year 7: Title challenge?
Sorry to be pessimistic, but we're not there until it's within our sight. We're currently a good 30+ points behind Liverpool. We to almost double our point tally if we want to be anywhere near challenging for the title. Plus, people are saying Sancho this, Sancho that, as if it's a given he's gonna come here.
I agree to a point. We aren't going to catch Liverpool up immediately, anyone who think we're a signing or two away from launching a title challenge is living a fantasy. But we aren't too far away from becoming a very good team who can finish Top 3, that should be the first milestone, once we've got that then we can think about launching a title challenge.
Bringing in a new Manager won't make us title challengers either for what it's worth. We're still rebuilding, 70-75 points in the League should be our objective next year. That doesn't seem too unrealistic to me as we're certainly better defensively this year and Bruno has currently helped our team in the final third (whether he can continue this form is a different question). If Sancho did join us it would be a huge step in the right direction though.
The biggest positives for me is the youth of this squad. And they are already beating teams like City, Tottenham and Chelsea on a regular basis. This alone is actually really telling of the potential this squad already has.
I for one wants to give OGS time to see his project through to the end. I think we have a lot to gain on him succeding, and that along with him actually doing a lot of things right is enough reason for him to be given that chance. Of course, things can't start getting worse, obv. That would require an earlier look at changes.
I for one wants to give OGS time to see his project through to the end. I think we have a lot to gain on him succeding, and that along with him actually doing a lot of things right is enough reason for him to be given that chance. Of course, things can't start getting worse, obv. That would require an earlier look at changes.
Ole for a bad coach sure does seem to get the better of a lot of big coaches....
I don't think we are far off. Of course we have room to improve and there are positions in which we can upgrade but surely no one can deny progress is being made?
I don't think we are far off. Of course we have room to improve and there are positions in which we can upgrade but surely no one can deny progress is being made?
If you going by comparing their careers this season, you could be right. But if you take their entire career in managent into comparison there isn't single person apart from romantic man utd fans that would say that Ole is a better coach than Poch.
Last edited:
Indeed.
We've literally just drawn a game, against Everton. A top team would have beaten them without too much fuss, but we huffed, puffed, relied on VAR to save us from the last goal which Everton scored - and "won" a draw.
The only thing which has changed is the introduction of Bruno, who is not yet infected with the MUFC virus.
The fact is that we are probably going to finish on the lowest points score in our history, in the EPL. This cannot be argued or debated against.
For the record, while Ole and Woodward are here, we won't be doing anything special in the EPL. We might challenge for 4th place while they are both here, but that's it. Some fans' standards have fallen so low that they'd probably be very happy with this.
Once Woodward leaves, we have a good chance of building towards a title challenge.
Those two along with Thomas Partey and Timo Werner and we'd be much closer to challenging on all fronts. I do feel like we need Champions League football for that to happen though, so fingers crossed.
Progress in regards to what? we're pretty much where we were under Ole at the back end of last season too, chasing Chelsea for 4th but never really capitalizing. Before eventually falling to pieces in the final month or so. Mourinho and LVG on the other hand had us in competing in the CL for the most part.
