Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

[Dante]

Arrivals from China are being quarantined. Arrivals from Italy are being met at the airport and being told to self-quarantine for 2 weeks. All of that is understandable as they've been the two big coronavirus hotspots until this point.

But now Madrid is a new hotspot. Given that fans are coming over for a football match, self-quarantining is not realistic. The authorities should have made the game home-support only.

The UK is currently in a containment phase. Anything that compromises that should be minimised; particularly for something as non-consequential as a sporting event.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah, that would be my (entirely unprofessional) take on it too.

I've just finished reading Bill Bryon's "The Body" and have read as many facts regarding Covid-19 as possible. It'd not confirmed at all that it can spread by airborne droplets*, and as with other viruses, it's far more likely you get it by touching a contaminated surface, a door handle, tap, tube button, seat handrest etc. and then put your hands on your own face. This is also why "hand washing" has been the number 1 advised way to prevent it.

So when you claim sitting 1m away from someone on the tube (guessing he's never actually travelled between 7-10 and 15-19) it advised, it won't help, it wouldn't help even if the virus was airborne either.

@VintageWhatnots claiming stopping sporting events will slow the spread is just not true. It's nothing like seeing litter on the ground and thinking feck it. It's simple common sense that this virus will be spread around London this week at a rate astronomically higher than it could during a Liverpool v Athletico football match.

*WHO: Airborne spread has not been reported for COVID-19 and it is not believed to be a major driver of transmission based on available evidence.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Covid has a kill rate of 3.5%+ which is incredibly high.

It's clearly far worse than the common flu, certainly, and I understand very well that people are scared. However, I think the death rate and actual deadliness (statistically) of the virus is a bit of a red herring - or could be: what people should focus on are the larger ramifications, not the likelihood of individuals being severely affected directly or by proxy (the latter is still very small).

The sheer numbers can be easily exploited for Trumpian arguments, I think. "Nothing to worry about, it'll blow over - and you could be run over by a bus rather than catching corona, etc."

 

[TMDaines]

Not necessarily but it's reckless to have that many people from Madrid over when there's been a recent outbreak there. Just not worth the risk - it only takes one infected person without any symptons to pass it on in a pub or in the stadium and there you go.

There will be more British people currently carrying the virus in the UK than Madrid fans carrying the virus travelling over from Spain... by orders of magnitude. The vast majority of COVID-19 cases in British citizens will now be developed through contact with other British citizens, not Madrid supporters. Closing the borders to Spain would cause more harm to British people through not being able to conduct business, return home to the UK, care for family, receive vital services, allowing Spanish citizens to return home and better isolate themselves, etc. than it will deliver health benefits to the UK.

Xenophobic obsessing over national borders is irrational, but part of deep seated human nature. Would you suggest locking down the borders of Cheshire that currently has 0 cases confirmed to protect from the perceived threat from those in GM and Liverpool? Of course not, because humans feel more comfortable with those they identify with than whatever the "other" is.

We are not Australia. We are not trying to prevent single cases of a single pest or disease to protect a vulnerable ecosystem. The virus is already here and will remain likely systemic indefinitely. Closing borders between areas with the virus already spreading will do more harm than good.

 

[montpelier]

I always read the thread title and feel there's a ", please?" missing.

Yes, I'd been thinking that as well.

 

[montpelier]

But, its clearly lost all integrity now and ought to be canned, ASAP.

 

[Dumbstar]

Wonder if Spain, Germany, Italy and France will announce league champions if season is halted? Makes sense as season is nearly 3/4 complete. Teams still waiting to do it all in the final quarter (City to win the league, Norwich to escape relegation, etc) is an unlikely scenario given how the rest of the season has panned out. Freeze the positions and move on to next season I reckon.

Will give Arsenal, Utd, Wolves, Chelsea more focus on staying in CL positions to not get frozen out when the music stops.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It cold pass by airborne droplets, and as with other viruses, it's far more likely you get it by touching a contaminated surface, a door handle, tap, tube button, seat handrest etc. and then put your hands on your own face.

I've noticed an immense increase in the number of people who use their elbows on tube door buttons lately.

 

[TMDaines]

That's the same argument as 'there is litter on the floor, so I may as well chuck mine there too'.

Will playing games behind closed doors stop the virus, no, of course not. Will it help slow it, even somewhat, yes it definitely will.

That's before you consider, that at a football match you are in very close proximity to a number of people for an extended amount of time. Which is the perfect way to spread the virus.

Do you close venues broadcasting the match in a confined space? Indoor pubs, restaurants, family homes with lots of visitors are all far more ripe for transmission. Playing matches behind closed doors and "taking people off the streets" does not put populations into self isolation.

 

[RobinLFC]

There will be more British people currently carrying the virus in the UK than Madrid fans carrying the virus travelling over from Spain... by orders of magnitude. The vast majority of COVID-19 cases in British citizens will now be developed through contact with other British citizens, not Madrid supporters. Closing the borders to Spain would cause more harm to British people through not being able to conduct business, return home to the UK, care for family, receive vital services, allowing Spanish citizens to return home and better isolate themselves, etc. than it will deliver health benefits to the UK.

Xenophobic obsessing over national borders is irrational, but part of deep seated human nature. Would you suggest locking down the borders of Cheshire that currently has 0 cases confirmed to protect from the perceived threat from those in GM and Liverpool? Of course not, because humans feel more comfortable with those they identify with than whatever the "other" is.

We are not Australia. We are not trying to prevent single cases of a single pest or disease to protect a vulnerable ecosystem. The virus is already here and will remain likely systemic indefinitely. Closing borders between areas with the virus already spreading will do more harm than good.

Fecking hell man I was talking about playing a simple game of football without fans and you got "closing the bonders to Spain" and "xenophobic obsessing" over that? Get a grip.

Not to mention that your first sentence is completely irrelevant to the point - there's more people in Wuhan carrying the virus than in Italy, does that mean they should welcome visitors from Milan with open arms?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Surface contact isn't if eoxeets

I don't know that word.

 

[Godfather]

I don't know that word.

Sorry I'm on my phone. Was about to reply to your post but that would have taken way too much time on that shitty thing.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Fecking hell man I was talking about playing a simple game of football without fans and you got "closing the bonders to Spain" and "xenophobic obsessing" over that? Get a grip.

Close the doors and it'll be like Valenica last night:

https://talksport.com/football/681045/valencia-fans-coronavirus-champions-league-atalanta-mestalla/

Which is the point. You either stop people gathering altogether or it's nothing more than shitty PR, unhelpful and feeds mass hysteria like Rhyme claiming it's "insane" that the game is going ahead tonight with fans.

 

[RobinLFC]

Close the door and it'll be like Valenica last night:

https://talksport.com/football/681045/valencia-fans-coronavirus-champions-league-atalanta-mestalla/

Well, people are stupid, but at least it's their own choice to congregate wherever they want to.

If the Merseyside derby is played behind closed doors next Monday, Stanley Park might be, and Liverpool city centre most definitely will be jam packed with people. I'm not saying only restricting football games is the right thing to do, but not taking any measures when Madrid fans are coming over for a stupid game of football is just taking risks which could very easily be avoided without much harm to the people in question.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Wonder if Spain, Germany, Italy and France will announce league champions if season is halted?

I'm not sure they can - just like that. There are rules in place. The standard is (I believe) that you can suspend a competition for X days - but beyond a certain point said competition becomes null and void.

In order to formally finish a competition ahead of time, you probably need an actual rule change - which may be subject to a majority (or super majority of some kind) of the parties involved sanctioning it. As several have said above, it seems very unlikely that a majority of PL clubs would agree to something like that at the present stage.

 

[TMDaines]

Fecking hell man I was talking about playing a simple game of football without fans and you got "closing the bonders to Spain" and "xenophobic obsessing" over that? Get a grip.

Not to mention that your first sentence is completely irrelevant to the point - there's more people in Wuhan carrying the virus than in Italy, does that mean they should welcome visitors from Milan with open arms?

Flights literally are coming to and from Milan to the UK on a daily basis still. Most have been stopped for lack of continued business case, rather than a public health issue.

In terms of potential new cases, the threat level from Madrid fans coming to the UK to watch a football match is much smaller than the threat level from British citizens already carrying the virus in the UK. That's my point.

 

[Dumbstar]

I'm not sure they can - just like that. There are rules in place. The standard is (I believe) that you can suspend a competition for X days - but beyond a certain point said competition becomes null and void.

In order to formally finish a competition ahead of time, you probably need an actual rule change - which may be subject to a majority (or super majority of some kind) of the parties involved sanctioning it. As several have said above, it seems very unlikely that a majority of PL clubs would agree to something like that at the present stage.

Again, is this something Spain, Germany, Italy, etc, will be doing? If not then I can see PL revisiting their 60 days rule for nulling and voiding. Now that this is no longer a hypothetical scenario and there are or will be a few more knowns.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well, people are stupid, but at least it's their own choice to congregate wherever they want to.

If the Merseyside derby is played behind closed doors next Monday, Stanley Park might be, and Liverpool city centre most definitely will be jam packed with people. I'm not saying only restricting football games is the right thing to do, but not taking any measures when Madrid fans are coming over for a stupid game of football is just taking risks which could very easily be avoided without much harm to the people in question.

Aye, Liverpool centre would be choka-block for sure, just as it would tonight full of fans watching their teams in rammed pubs. Are the barman allowed to be off then? or do they just have to deal with the increased risk of a packed pub, saliva and hands over most of the things they touch?

And I disagree that preventing people watching sport is any kind of solution if we're doing nothing about the far more disastrous ramifications of just allowing regular London tourist life to go on as normal. If it's deemed that dangerous to prevent 2800 fans coming over from Spain to watch tonight, then common sense says 82000 tourists per day (on average) in London, all riding the same tube system, visiting the same sights, is a disaster.

Heathrow alone sees 219,458 passengers per day on average.

So quite simply, a Chelsea fan from Wimbledon who works in a busy Shoreditch pub... should he be prevented from going to watch a Chelsea match but yet it's fine for him to take the tube system to work everyday cause no fecker is closing that down and telling him he doesn't need to go in and work. It defies common sense.

So if it's not a solution, and like feck will it slow it down, what is it exactly?

 

[One Night Only]

It won't be suspended for 60 days anyway.

People getting excited at this prospect so Liverpool don't win a title is stupid

 

[ROFLUTION]

Wonder if Spain, Germany, Italy and France will announce league champions if season is halted? Makes sense as season is nearly 3/4 complete. Teams still waiting to do it all in the final quarter (City to win the league, Norwich to escape relegation, etc) is an unlikely scenario given how the rest of the season has panned out. Freeze the positions and move on to next season I reckon.

Will give Arsenal, Utd, Wolves, Chelsea more focus on staying in CL positions to not get frozen out when the music stops.

While I do ask the same general questions, it's not unfeasible to think the PL could be closed/suspended in a gameweek or three, like in Italy.

I'm not sure it's fair on United to have finished all the toughest fixtures in that period of time, having a remainder of easy fixtures left, and then finishing 6th, while it's the opposite with some teams who have a tough fixture or two in the very end of the season. Wolves and Chelsea for instance play each other in the very last game, which would make one of them drop points, and possibly let United through.

So I'm not sure if a freeze the positions is fair if say United drop 1 point to Spurs this GW, and Wolves temporarily goes to 5th while it freezes. But then again, I'm not sure if there even IS a fair way of doing it in any ways. But would be more fair to have the affected teams do a play-off against each others in the pre-season I think, but that'd probably be affected too.

Surprised myself that last round got allowed to have full stadiums. This one too. So many tourists coming in and out to spread the disease.

 

[432JuanMata]

Sorry if imagines aren’t allowed but this is the difference in the flu and covid death rate. Very close if your under 60 though can be deadly to elderly.

 

[TheReligion]

Strong chance this season is abandoned and declared void in my opinion

 

[Tarrou]

doesn't look close if you are under 60 at all

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

doesn't look close if you are under 60 at all

Haha, I think the numbers are so small, ergo "close". But yeah, it reality, when talking about mortality rates, that isn't close AT ALL.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Again, is this something Spain, Germany, Italy, etc, will be doing?

No idea, to be honest.

Worth looking into what rules are in place.

As far as I know, the precedents that do exist would suggest that if a competition is abandoned (for whatever reason), no winner is announced. Nulling and voiding means - well - just that. Even if it was obvious who would've won it, as it were.

 

[Toad]

Season should be suspended within the next couple of weeks I imagine. Last few days it has got too out of control. Just lockdown the country like Italy and nip it in the bud before it gets worse.

 

[432JuanMata]

doesn't look close if you are under 60 at all

Yeah I guess close was a stretch it seems most people dying under 60 seem to have health conditions(diabetes,Cancer,Hesrt problems) a healthy adult will recover. The biggest problem is a healthy adult passing it on too the person who is elderly or a person with health problems.

 

[Canagel]

They will finish the season in summer I think and postpone Euros.

 

[dwd]

They will finish the season in summer I think and postpone Euros.

They were on about postponing the euros anyway, so why would that make sense?

 

[Mb194dc]

They will finish the season in summer I think and postpone Euros.

Problem is this could still be going on then, so no way to plan for that with certainty. Nothing I've seen from medical perspective indicates it'll simply go away in a few months.

If it's cancelled, no games or tournaments will be planned until they know will be ok on the medical side. They'll have to wait for all clear.

 

[montpelier]

Stop showing it in the pubs. Make the big games free on terrestrial telly?

 

[esmufc07]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...el-to-italy-for-inter-milan-europa-league-tie

Getafe refusing to travel to Milan, which is understandable.

What consequences will this have? Do we think the EL and CL will be able to finish?

 

[TMDaines]

Congratulations mate, hope all goes really well with it. First child?

First yep!

Not too worried about all this in terms of baby’s health. Published early data show remarkably low effect in infants and Royal College of Midwives have reported there’s nothing to suggest pregnant women are more susceptible. There’s a lot bigger concerns for mums, babies and kids!

 

[horsechoker]

Stop showing it in the pubs. Make the big games free on terrestrial telly?

That's what they were going to do in Seria A before the suspension.

FA should suspend the 3pm rule also.

 

[MadMike]

They were on about postponing the euros anyway, so why would that make sense?

Euros involve a lot of international travellers, going through airports and border, so it's more risky. And can't really play those behind closed doors, like what's the point for the hosting countries then?

If we get to the point where the EPL is postponed one can only imagine it will be restarted if infection rates diminish greatly or played largely behind closed doors.

 

[redman5]

If that's the case one more season won't matter.

Nah, I think it's about time we put ourselves first for a change.

 

[SirAnderson]

I can actually see the upside to that, no other team in English history could compare to that selflessness. Might be how I pivot to make the best of this whole situation.

Think about it: Ferguson's Class of '92, Wenger's Invincibles, Guardiola's Centurions. "Klopp's Saints", as good as any other team in English football history but undoubtedly also the most principled side too. This is how I'm spinning it.

fecking hell, that's classic!

 

[mav_9me]

Yes and that's a short term solution. You cant shut down multiple countries for extended periods of time, it just won't work and people will have to live their lives eventually. Same applies to football. They arent going to postpone next season that's 5 months away, as they arent going to shut down the countries and borders for 5 months everywhere around the world. Euros is a different case. It's not sustainable though.

It is absolutely a short term solution and one which is very much needed. How short term I don't know. 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month I don't know. But to me it is inevitable that what Italy has done will be done in multiple countries. The thing is IMO it is better to do proactively now rather than react like Italy where it has been a bit late. At least this way there will only be mostly economic impact. Unfortunately as a physician in USA I see Italy repeating here, there will be loss of life and economic impact. Hopefully I'm completely wrong.

 

[redman5]

Euros involve a lot of international travellers, going through airports and border, so it's more risky. And can't really play those behind closed doors, like what's the point for the hosting countries then?

If we get to the point where the EPL is postponed one can only imagine it will be restarted if infection rates diminish greatly or played largely behind closed doors.

How long before they start to consider cancelling the Champions League & the Europa League ? It's obvious that this is going to get worse over the coming weeks.

 

[TheReligion]

They will finish the season in summer I think and postpone Euros.

How can they do this without delaying the start of the next season?

Logistics are impossible. The season is likely to be suspended and if the outbreak continues made void.