SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Dumbstar]

Trump blames Obama for lack of pandemic prep
Pressed by a reporter over why the US was not more prepared for the pandemic, Mr Trump blamed the Obama administration, saying "the shelves were empty, we had no ammunition or medical supplies".
He also claimed he inherited "broken" tests, though it is unclear what he meant as the previous administration would not have developed such tests.
"I always knew that pandemics are one of the worst things that could happen," Mr Trump said.


This guy

And there's the election won right there. 4 more years.

 

[golden_blunder]

#MaskWars - war within the war.

It’s playing out exactly like movie ‘Contagion’ scripted it would.

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IF that’s true, bloody hell. Smaller things have started wars

 

[Suedesi]

That is absolute and utter tripe mate. I'm sorry but it is.

There are many types of masks on the market and most of them do feck all to protect you as they do not stop you inhaling droplets with the virus.

Are you a doctor? What is the scientific proof that masks protects you? Why the WHO doesn't recommend healthy persons to wear masks?

Masks with zero certifications, zero knowledge how they are made and if the person that made them is infected or not are sold on the market.

You have the Netherlands moving back millions of masks that were proven to do feck all and sent it back to China.

You might as well put your hand on your mouth when you cough and it will do the same job as 90% of the masks out there.

All people touch their face much more often with masks on, because they have to either correct it, take it off, take it on, change it (most of the masks only last for an hour or two) and that builds bacteria and viruses right on their faces.

I don't need to be a doctor to figure out that masks might work to stop the spread of a disease transmitted in part by coughing. No mask is 100% safe (unless we're talking about lab grade masks) but anything that stops or can lower the viral load is beneficial.

Since you asked for studies, here are some:

Any type of general mask use (including homemade masks) is likely to decrease viral exposure and infection risk on a population level, in spite of imperfect fit and imperfect adherence.

The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

A double layer of 100% cotton cloth is about 70% as effective as a surgical mask at capturing small particles (up to five times smaller than coronavirus)

Some experts have argued that non-medical fabric masks might make a dent in transmission risk. “Something doesn’t have to be 100% effective to be beneficial,” –Dr. Anthony Fauci, the US director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

CDC considering recommending general public wear face coverings in public

NYT: It’s Time to Make Your Own Face Mask

National Review: A Lesson from Japan’s Fight against Coronavirus: Masks Help

CNN: Asia may have been right about coronavirus and face masks, and the rest of the world is coming around

Fox News: The Government needs to stop lying to us about why we shouldn’t wear a mask

Yale Study: The Case for Universal Cloth Mask Adoption & Policies to Increase the Supply of Medical Masks. (hopefully that's enough experts for you)

Oh and go listen to W.H.O. who have been 3-weeks behind the curve on everything on this crisis.

 

[Utdstar01]

Anthony Yarde, pro british boxer has lost his Dad and Grandmother to this in the space of a couple weeks.

 

[Revan]

They don't meet quality standards.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ive-masks-imported-china-200329141715106.html

There have been loads of returns.

Masks shipped by containers also have a high risk of spreading the disease as there are some reports that the virus can stay there for 17 days and usually masks arrive quicker.

17 seems a bit too much. To be fair, it could be and there are many unknowns, but from what I have seen the consensus seems to be that it can survive from a few hours to a few days (in metal). Masks are already inside a package, and I believe in packages the virus doesn't survive that long.

Fair point about defective masks.

 

[Revan]

Dunno about China, but I don’t think Iranian authorities are necessarily lying, just they’ve been so completely overwhelmed by what’s happened that they are really struggling to get a grasp of the true magnitude of their crisis.

Btw I think what’s happened in certain other countries since the virus exploded across Iran provides a good perspective on the nature of the Iranian approach. Many people who were a bit shocked by Tehran’s seemingly bungled initial response might be feeling a bit chastened by subsequent developments elsewhere (I include myself in that).

They are having circa 100 deaths per day (and only 3.3k in total) which is kind of unbelievable. They were hit very early and very hard, some of their high level officials die (which probably means that it was very spread), they have the same population as Germany, are in relative poverty, have large families, yet somehow their deaths lag behind Italy/Spain/France/UK. Looks kind of fishy.

China is definitely lying. They added new measures (like closing theaters) while reporting 0 new cases.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don't need to be a doctor to figure out that masks might work to stop the spread of a disease transmitted in part by coughing. No mask is 100% safe (unless we're talking about lab grade masks) but anything that stops or can lower the viral load is beneficial.

Since you asked for studies, here are some:

You definitely took some time to come up with that, but neither of those is a proper study.

This is a study:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/153567601001500204

Three commonly available face masks—a surgical mask, a pre-shaped mask, and a bandana—were challenged with saline aerosols in concentrations and particle size distributions representing dust storm conditions to determine their protective efficiencies. A N95 respirator was used as the positive control and challenged under the same conditions. All three masks performed poorly, with protective efficiencies less than 34% as compared to the N95 respirator that had a protective efficiency of nearly 90%. Possible factors related to the protective efficiencies observed with face masks and the N95 respirator includes the penetration efficiency and particle load characteristics of the fabrication materials. Equally important is the fit of the face mask and respirator. This may account for the less than 95% efficiency observed for the N95. Protection from dust, allergens, and infectious aerosols with face masks and respirators is dependent on the aerosol concentration of the compound and the in-fectious or inhaled dose. The results demonstrate that use of these types of face masks may not provide as much protection as desired against inhaled aerosols.

Some of the masks during those tests show less than 5-10% efficiency which means they do close to feck all.

So when you try to spread false information and 'sense of security' of the effect of wearing masks, I suggest you try to dig up a bit deeper on the subject.


I wouldn't even entertain that. If you have something constructive to say, backed with some evidence I'm perfectly fine with hearing you out.

 

[Revan]

Fecking hell, 30.000 new cases and 1.300 dead today in the US. How much has this damned virus been bubbling under the surface over there? Ok, per capita they're still behind Italy and Spain, but this does not look promising.

On deaths, also behind UK and France. And deaths is a better stat than infections considering the difference in testings (the US tests in a day as much as UK has tested in total).

It does not look good though, especially with some states who are still relatively untouched and are going to be hell in a few weeks. It will be quite interesting here, the peak will last far longer than in European countries, primarily cause different states will peak very differently (for example, when Florida will peak, New York will have passed the worst).

 

[Enigma_87]

17 seems a bit too much. To be fair, it could be and there are many unknowns, but from what I have seen the consensus seems to be that it can survive from a few hours to a few days (in metal). Masks are already inside a package, and I believe in packages the virus doesn't survive that long.

Fair point about defective masks.

There are many conflicting reports, but so far no one has come out with definite evidence of how long in can live on metal and damp surfaces as we don't have that many tests and information.

By the look of it China has contained it and not many reports of newly registered cases (however I'd take that with a pinch of salt) and whilst the risk of contamination of the products might be really low(or maybe non-existent) the quality control is very poor, especially when you consider the high demand and the little to no time those masks needs to be manufactured, sealed and shipped.

Generally it's advisable to buy masks that are imported from the government at batches so if they are crap you at least can regulate and stop the distribution right away, rather than buy it from unknown sources and distribute it to friends/family, etc.

 

[Skills]

On deaths, also behind UK and France. And deaths is a better stat than infections considering the difference in testings (the US tests in a day as much as UK has tested in total).

It does not look good though, especially with some states who are still relatively untouched and are going to be hell in a few weeks. It will be quite interesting here, the peak will last far longer than in European countries, primarily cause different states will peak very differently (for example, when Florida will peak, New York will have passed the worst).

Surely that works to their advantage? It'll give them an opportunity to re-direct & focus resources on the places that need them the most.

 

[Carolina Red]

I don’t think he’s even noticed.

Me either

 

[Hansa]

Dunno about China, but I don’t think Iranian authorities are necessarily lying, just they’ve been so completely overwhelmed by what’s happened that they are really struggling to get a grasp of the true magnitude of their crisis.

Btw I think what’s happened in certain other countries since the virus exploded across Iran provides a good perspective on the nature of the Iranian approach. Many people who were a bit shocked by Tehran’s seemingly bungled initial response might be feeling a bit chastened by subsequent developments elsewhere (I include myself in that).

Yes, according to the Noggie middle eastern correspondent who's regularly been in touch with the local doctors, they only have so many testing kits to make positive confirmations of the cases, that they have no chance of giving a correct number. After hiding the outbreak before the February elections, people apparently didn't really believe the authorities when they actually came clean with the impending virus threat, and so the virus was able to grab a foothold.

Looking ahead, could this catastrophe turn Iran into a slightly less pronounced theocracy? I mean, the country has a pretty well-educated portion of secular minds, and the religious nutters seem intent on self-extinction by licking corona-infested religious artifacts, so the aftermath might be the right moment to bridge some gaps between Iran and the western world.

 

[sammsky1]

You definitely took some time to come up with that, but neither of those is a proper study.This is a study:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/153567601001500204
Some of the masks during those tests show less than 5-10% efficiency which means they do close to feck all.
So when you try to spread false information and 'sense of security' of the effect of wearing masks, I suggest you try to dig up a bit deeper on the subject.

Pure common sense says that in addition to handwashing with soap and physical distancing, wearing a face mask will help reduce chances of covid19 infection, IF properly used.

Thats enough for me, and most others who spend time thinking about it. However, you're welcome to continue your copy/paste 'peer review' war with @Suedesi, I just think it's a waste of your time.

If you don't want to wear one, don't, nobody will force you: it's not even mandatory law even in mask wearing cultures like Japan or S.Korea. Good luck!

 

[Carolina Red]

Most of eastern and western NC will have to go to Greenville

She's said they've had people transferred in from there before. Wouldn't surprise me.

At least there's been a delay in cases flooding into hospitals in the non-NY/La/WA/MI states. It gives them time to prepare and convert/expand treatment areas. Duke was able to figure out ways to sterilize N95 masks for reuse.

Hopefully they'll tell us how they did it. Them folks at Duke are smart.

 

[Revan]

You definitely took some time to come up with that, but neither of those is a proper study.

This is a study:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/153567601001500204



Some of the masks during those tests show less than 5-10% efficiency which means they do close to feck all.

So when you try to spread false information and 'sense of security' of the effect of wearing masks, I suggest you try to dig up a bit deeper on the subject.


I wouldn't even entertain that. If you have something constructive to say, backed with some evidence I'm perfectly fine with hearing you out.

To be fair, 33% is hardly anything, especially if most people are wearing them. 1/3 of those who wear them not getting infected is a big deal, especially considering the spread of the virus (so not infected, do not spread the virus). Additionally, with a large part (maybe up to a few times of people diagnosed) showing no symptoms or just mild symptoms, if those people wear masks, then they won't infect the others.

Finally, the experiment was done when the mannequin was bombed with dust of contagious particles for half an hour. In many scenarios, like working, or going to supermarket/pharmacy, you are still keeping social distance and probably staying less than 30 minutes, which might mean that those masks offer more than 33% protection.

So, I would say that it is a good idea to save the respirators for medical staff, and make mandatory for everyone else to wear surgical masks (which offer less protection, but are cheaper and easier to produce).

 

[Enigma_87]

Pure common sense says that in addition to handwashing with soap and physical distancing, wearing a face mask will help reduce chances of covid19 infection, IF properly used.

Thats enough for me, and most others who spend time thinking about it. However, you're welcome to continue your copy/paste 'peer review' war with @Suedesi, I just think it's a waste of your time.

If you don't want to wear one, don't. Nobody will force you: It's not even mandatory law, even in mask wearing cultures like Japan or S.Korea. Good luck!

Distancing, washing your hands and not touching your face, eyes, nose is perfectly fine for anyone.

If you inhale even one tiny droplet you can be infected with the virus. Some of the high quality masks have much better effect at reducing the chance of an infection, but a very small percentage of people are wearing them.

You are free to wear one yourself of course, and that's a personal choice, but people should be aware of the negative effects of masks and that it also builds bacteria and you might come in contact with another virus/bacteria whilst you wear them.

IF properly used is a big if, because most of the people that I see every day - don't.

Masks are useful in heavy polluted areas (such as China, Japan, Italy) because they stop dust, allergens and the big particles that you inhale daily, but so far I haven't seen a study that says wearing one will not get you infected with the virus.

 

[Revan]

There are many conflicting reports, but so far no one has come out with definite evidence of how long in can live on metal and damp surfaces as we don't have that many tests and information.

By the look of it China has contained it and not many reports of newly registered cases (however I'd take that with a pinch of salt) and whilst the risk of contamination of the products might be really low(or maybe non-existent) the quality control is very poor, especially when you consider the high demand and the little to no time those masks needs to be manufactured, sealed and shipped.

Generally it's advisable to buy masks that are imported from the government at batches so if they are crap you at least can regulate and stop the distribution right away, rather than buy it from unknown sources and distribute it to friends/family, etc.

Fair points. Like you, I do not trust China's numbers and that they have contained it.

I ordered some at ebay, waiting, then not touching them for another few days. I barely go out nowadays, but when I go to the supermarket, I would prefer to have a mask.

Surely that works to their advantage? It'll give them an opportunity to re-direct & focus resources on the places that need them the most.

If done right, it could. So they can send doctors from one state to another. However, I don't think that is going to happen, the federal government is failing to coordinate states to buy ventilators, cannot imagine them being organized so well as to send doctors and nurses from New York to Florida for example. On the other side, they can send these hospital ships, build new hospitals and so on, if the peak does not happen at the same time in most states.

In any case, it is definitely better than the peak happening at the same time everywhere (in which case you can expect close to 10k deaths per day if it is as bad as Spain).

 

[Hansa]

On deaths, also behind UK and France. And deaths is a better stat than infections considering the difference in testings (the US tests in a day as much as UK has tested in total).

It does not look good though, especially with some states who are still relatively untouched and are going to be hell in a few weeks. It will be quite interesting here, the peak will last far longer than in European countries, primarily cause different states will peak very differently (for example, when Florida will peak, New York will have passed the worst).

It's such a strange situation. When looking at the figures, the community spread - in many, many states - must have gone on for 3-4 weeks. Simultaneously, you had scores of expats returning home, and it's as if the very moment they were all inside the borders and the gates were shut, the ambulances began howling. My sympathies go out to the families where staying at home is not an option, if they want to have food on the table. I think there are a lot of them.

 

[Revan]

Yes, according to the Noggie middle eastern correspondent who's regularly been in touch with the local doctors, they only have so many testing kits to make positive confirmations of the cases, that they have no chance of giving a correct number. After hiding the outbreak before the February elections, people apparently didn't really believe the authorities when they actually came clean with the impending virus threat, and so the virus was able to grab a foothold.

Looking ahead, could this catastrophe turn Iran into a slightly less pronounced theocracy? I mean, the country has a pretty well-educated portion of secular minds, and the religious nutters seem intent on self-extinction by licking corona-infested religious artifacts, so the aftermath might be the right moment to bridge some gaps between Iran and the western world.

I know I shouldn't but this made me

 

[Anustart89]

Hello neighbour!!!!
As I said usually I hate a trip to Tesco’s but the last couple have been great.
Still no flour, no eggs no rice (apart from a 10kg bag and I’m not that desperate for rice!) and no pasta but everything else was fine. I have little hope that people around here will pull together as the things I have seen in there (including some
Guy wandering around with an axe!!) beggar belief and really make you question humanity.
Half price joints of beef atm though so I bought 2.5 kg worth and I plan on inviting some like minded affluent friends round on Sunday for a good roast.
(Is that getting old yet?)

Is this a joke?

If not, I'd strongly advise against having people over in the midst of a feckING PANDEMIC. Jesus fecking Christ, what is wrong with people?

 

[Revan]

Distancing, washing your hands and not touching your face, eyes, nose is perfectly fine for anyone.

If you inhale even one tiny droplet you can be infected with the virus. Some of the high quality masks have much better effect at reducing the chance of an infection, but a very small percentage of people are wearing them.

You are free to wear one yourself of course, and that's a personal choice, but people should be aware of the negative effects of masks and that it also builds bacteria and you might come in contact with another virus/bacteria whilst you wear them.

IF properly used is a big if, because most of the people that I see every day - don't.

Masks are useful in heavy polluted areas (such as China, Japan, Italy) because they stop dust, allergens and the big particles that you inhale daily, but so far I haven't seen a study that says wearing one will not get you infected with the virus.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a lot also depends on how much virus you get contaminated (thus why many relatively young doctors and nurses have died). I think I read somewhere (and it was kind of shocking for me), that if you get infected with more virus, then it is harder for the immune system to fight the virus, cause it needs to fight many particles of virus at the same time (essentially the virus has a headstart). if true, it can explain why doctors are dying so much. A random guy inhaling some particles which are contaminated would have a better response than a doctor to whom people have been coughing in their face for days.

I might be totally wrong on this, was just some article I read a few days ago.

 

[Wibble]

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This is horrible to see. Need more awareness in India. I realise this barbaric behaviour is driven by fear but still..

Why are they angry with the doctors?

 

[Enigma_87]

To be fair, 33% is hardly anything, especially if most people are wearing them. 1/3 of those who wear them not getting infected is a big deal, especially considering the spread of the virus (so not infected, do not spread the virus). Additionally, with a large part (maybe up to a few times of people diagnosed) showing no symptoms or just mild symptoms, if those people wear masks, then they won't infect the others.

Finally, the experiment was done when the mannequin was bombed with dust of contagious particles for half an hour. In many scenarios, like working, or going to supermarket/pharmacy, you are still keeping social distance and probably staying less than 30 minutes, which might mean that those masks offer more than 33% protection.

So, I would say that it is a good idea to save the respirators for medical staff, and make mandatory for everyone else to wear surgical masks (which offer less protection, but are cheaper and easier to produce).

33% is rather nothing considering you need a tiny droplet to become a carrier or infected. It's like losing 0-7, compared to 0-10. 33% will get you infected with or without mask as generally speaking it lets 67% of the aerosols on your face/mouth.

This is also considering the mask is certified, in fully "working" condition and also replaced every 1-2 hrs, with clean hands, not touching it on the outside and in, not fixating it every 10 mins or so and so forth.

Also bear in mind that Summer is coming in the Northern hemisphere. That means hot and damp temperatures. People with obstructed breathing with those masks sweating and making them even less usable, panting for air and breathing heavier - which leads to more particles being released, a bigger part of which the masks don't stop, and so forth.

As I said, you are free to wear them and if it gives you sense of security and peace of mind it's ok, but you still need to keep your distance and obide all other rules, not only wearing a mask.

For making it mandatory - this is a big no no for me and I'm seriously against this for all the above reasons.

 

[Revan]

Is this a joke?

If not, I'd strongly advise against having people over in the midst of a feckING PANDEMIC. Jesus fecking Christ, what is wrong with people?

Oh, you do not know the affluent meme which goes in this thread.

 

[Wibble]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a lot also depends on how much virus you get contaminated (thus why many relatively young doctors and nurses have died). I think I read somewhere (and it was kind of shocking for me), that if you get infected with more virus, then it is harder for the immune system to fight the virus, cause it needs to fight many particles of virus at the same time (essentially the virus has a headstart). if true, it can explain why doctors are dying so much. A random guy inhaling some particles which are contaminated would have a better response than a doctor to whom people have been coughing in their face for days.

I might be totally wrong on this, was just some article I read a few days ago.

Viral load is always a factor as far as I'm aware.

 

[Anustart89]

Oh, you do not know the affluent meme which goes in this thread.

I've missed that. Thanks for clearing it up and lowering my blood pressure before bedtime

 

[Wibble]

Is this a joke?

Yes

 

[Revan]

33% is rather nothing considering you need a tiny droplet to become a carrier or infected. It's like losing 0-7, compared to 0-10. 33% will get you infected with or without mask as generally speaking it lets 67% of the aerosols on your face/mouth.

This is also considering the mask is certified, in fully "working" condition and also replaced every 1-2 hrs, with clean hands, not touching it on the outside and in, not fixating it every 10 mins or so and so forth.

Also bear in mind that Summer is coming in the Northern hemisphere. That means hot and damp temperatures. People with obstructed breathing with those masks sweating and making them even less usable, panting for air and breathing heavier - which leads to more particles being released, a bigger part of which the masks don't stop, and so forth.

As I said, you are free to wear them and if it gives you sense of security and peace of mind it's ok, but you still need to keep your distance and obide all other rules, not only wearing a mask.

For making it mandatory - this is a big no no for me and I'm seriously against this for all the above reasons.

Hmm, no. I just skirmished over it, but I thought that in 33% of the mannequins there were no traces of the virus after the mask was removed. So in a real scenario, 1/3 of people would not have been infected after being bombed with dust contaminated particles. It wasn't that the mask kept 1/3 of the particles out, but that 1/3 of the cases were not infected.

Edit: Also it would have been interesting to see the viral load of the infected compared to mannequins which were not wearing masks. As I mentioned in my previous post (and @Wibble confirmed), the viral load plays a part too.

Fair point, about summer making things harder, and yes, people with breathing problems should probably not wear them. Maybe, not mandatory, but to make them highly recommended (give a cookie or something to those that wear them).

 

[Paxi]

Why are they angry with the doctors?

They came in to test a patient that was living on that street according to bbc.

 

[Skills]

If done right, it could. So they can send doctors from one state to another. However, I don't think that is going to happen, the federal government is failing to coordinate states to buy ventilators, cannot imagine them being organized so well as to send doctors and nurses from New York to Florida for example. On the other side, they can send these hospital ships, build new hospitals and so on, if the peak does not happen at the same time in most states.

In any case, it is definitely better than the peak happening at the same time everywhere (in which case you can expect close to 10k deaths per day if it is as bad as Spain).

I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago. That if the European govts co-ordinated better in between themselves following Italy's out break, they could've 'staggered' their peaks & re-directed resources in between themselves. I'm not talking about doctors specifically but medical equipment, ventilators, masks. But now, they're pretty much all going to feel the brunt of it at the same time - apart from Italy who should be coming out of the other side in the next few weeks.

 

[Paxi]

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Horrific.

 

[Reditus]

Is this a joke?

If not, I'd strongly advise against having people over in the midst of a feckING PANDEMIC. Jesus fecking Christ, what is wrong with people?

I’m not even in here that often and I know that this was a joke. No idea which poster it was. But a few weeks ago he said something about where he lived and the type of folks he socialises with and I believe that is where it stemmed from. Yes it was a joke

 

[Wibble]

Hmm, no. I just skirmished over it, but I thought that in 33% of the mannequins there were no traces of the virus after the mask was removed. So in a real scenario, 1/3 of people would not have been infected after being bombed with dust contaminated particles. It wasn't that the mask kept 1/3 of the particles out, but that 1/3 of the cases were not infected.

Shame they didn't use no mask as a control.

 

[Enigma_87]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a lot also depends on how much virus you get contaminated (thus why many relatively young doctors and nurses have died). I think I read somewhere (and it was kind of shocking for me), that if you get infected with more virus, then it is harder for the immune system to fight the virus, cause it needs to fight many particles of virus at the same time (essentially the virus has a headstart). if true, it can explain why doctors are dying so much. A random guy inhaling some particles which are contaminated would have a better response than a doctor to whom people have been coughing in their face for days.

I might be totally wrong on this, was just some article I read a few days ago.

Most of this is not proven, but it's rather logical and for sure it "helps" the virus to spread faster in your body. On one hand that can lead to bigger reaction of the immune system which usually does the damage. However how your system interacts with the virus and how the virus replicates itself in your system is very individual matter and usually people with underlying conditions and weaker immune system are more susceptible.

That doesn't mean that if you do get it in smaller volume it won't develop itself in the same way, albeit for a prolonged time.

 

[Revan]

I’m not even in here that often and I know that this was a joke. No idea which poster it was. But a few weeks ago he said something about where he lived and the type of folks he socialises with and I believe that is where it stemmed from. Yes it was a joke

Yep, I think he has disappeared since. His justification was more or less that he was going to not give a shit about the pandemic until Boris Johnson says that now it is time to take it seriously, in which case, he would start applying social distancing.

 

[Skills]

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Horrific.

 

[Revan]

I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago. That if the European govts co-ordinated better in between themselves following Italy's out break, they could've 'staggered' their peaks & re-directed resources in between themselves. I'm not talking about doctors specifically but medical equipment, ventilators, masks. But now, they're pretty much all going to feel the brunt of it at the same time - apart from Italy who should be coming out of the other side in the next few weeks.

Ideally, that should have happened, but too hard to implement such things, unfortunately. Even US that has a stronger federal government has totally failed to coordinate states (though I believe that with any other president, things would have gone much better, except perhaps the travel ban which bought some time to the US, but was not followed by swift actions), the EU was always going to fail at it.

 

[Enigma_87]

Hmm, no. I just skirmished over it, but I thought that in 33% of the mannequins there were no traces of the virus after the mask was removed. So in a real scenario, 1/3 of people would not have been infected after being bombed with dust contaminated particles. It wasn't that the mask kept 1/3 of the particles out, but that 1/3 of the cases were not infected.

Edit: Also it would have been interesting to see the viral load of the infected compared to mannequins which were not wearing masks. As I mentioned in my previous post (and @Wibble confirmed), the viral load plays a part too.

Fair point, about summer making things harder, and yes, people with breathing problems should probably not wear them. Maybe, not mandatory, but to make them highly recommended (give a cookie or something to those that wear them).

No That would mean the efficiency in those cases would be 100%, whilst the highest efficiency shown was 45% and in some cases less than 30%.

the 33% is the mean of how much particles the filter(mask) stopped in those three cases, but in no case it stopped 100% of the virus.

 

[Wibble]

Yep, I think he has disappeared since. His justification was more or less that he was going to not give a shit about the pandemic until Boris Johnson says that now it is time to take it seriously, in which case, he would start applying social distancing.

If BoJo told me it was dark outside at night I'd have a look to make sure.

 

[sammsky1]

Distancing, washing your hands and not touching your face, eyes, nose is perfectly fine for anyone.
If you inhale even one tiny droplet you can be infected with the virus. Some of the high quality masks have much better effect at reducing the chance of an infection, but a very small percentage of people are wearing them.
You are free to wear one yourself of course, and that's a personal choice, but people should be aware of the negative effects of masks and that it also builds bacteria and you might come in contact with another virus/bacteria whilst you wear them.
IF properly used is a big if, because most of the people that I see every day - don't.

100% disagree with you, to the point that I think you are sharing a dangerous point of view.
Whats more, any issue you raise would be solved by a simple but mass public health messaging campaign.

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