How can then UAE do 600k tests, while the UK or France cannot do even 300k? Why there isn't a lack for Germany, Italy, Spain, the US, Norway, Switzerland, Australia, Canada etc?
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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Fair enough. I know that they have a semi-autocratic government, but I thought that it was working for them and people had trust on the government and are happy with their society.
This really does raise questions about when this virus was circulating in the uk. All hearsay but a lot of people were ill from around mid December including myself. My sister was very ill in February and had to go to hospital for a chest x-ray and anti biotics.
That's interesting, thanks for that. Good if true, still means all the social distancing would need to carry on, but wouldn't need to worry about touching stuff.
No offense, but the strain theory is really dumb. Also regarding Singapore most of their cases are from last 2 weeks, so no time for people to die. And they are younger than average, the infected. Took me 1min to check these, why didn't you do the same "work". First it was S korea then Germany then Singapore/Iceland. And always the answer is in time or demographics of the infected, not strains not über-health care. This is really simple.
All fair points, thanks!
So?
Easter long weekend motorway situation Madrid to the beach in Valencia area (Benidorm and the likes)
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I don’t think you understand the relationship our current regime has with the intelligence community. Or science for that matter. It would be perfectly possible for them to ignore warning signs as was born out by actions.
Not saying I’m buying into anything strongly one way or the other, but I’m definitely not buying into your typically rabid defense of China.
I would still be careful about surfaces but I think the key is inside buildings/homes and vehicles with people in close proximity. Hopefully those places will have more ventilation as the spring/summer comes and there's greater chance of evaporation as well.
FFS, a lockdown indeed!
Isn't this illegal?
In Italy, people can't travel from one province to the next without a good reason.
I agree, so hopefully it was infecting loads of people way earlier than we ever thought, and half the population already have had it, that likely means many will have died from it that we don't realise, but it's still alot better than the other conclusion.
People's own illnesses are becoming boring I agree, but nothing other than the illusive antibody test will convince me otherwise that what I had in late Feb/early March wasn't this, which means all those around me likely have had it too, but not one of us tested.
Of course is Illegal. There is traffic jam because the police has controls. 2 weeks ago I heard was 1500 euros and they stop e-very-sin-gle car.
Good, will be able to pay for health care equipment
They are not only stupid to escape the lock down, but to think that they could escape when there was news all over the place that it happened weeks before
Some points he makes:
-when asked about whether politicians listen to much to some individual experts, he responds that people rely too much on models - each model being based on assumptions - e.g. Imperial College assuming 50% of households not self quarantining.
-they have the chance to look at a representative sample, 1000 people from 500 households [a village which has been Germany's first hotspot of the virus]
-they took samples from 70 households, but are still waiting to gather a bigger sample size, so the following is his current impression, not his final results:
-they found traces of the virus on items, door handles or toilet water of people suffering from diarrhea, but they have never been able to grow a functioning virus from them, which according to him points toward people not getting infected via surfaces
-when asked about whether he discovered symptoms other than the previously reported near total loss of smelling and tasting senses: their current data shows around a third of patients suffering from diarrhea, including for multiple days. some people reported numbness and vertigo
-they are exploring possible cross immunities, caused by people previously overcoming other corona viruses
-says that jumping to premature conclusion would be the worst thing anybody can do and that he hopes to be able to give concrete advice around easter
-when asked about social distancing/lockdown measures and a previous statement of his that thus far there have been no proven infections from visiting the hairdresser/taking the bus/going shopping he replies that the odd infection on these occasion would not be good, but not a big problem either as the [realistic] target isn't a total shutdown of the virus spread, but reduction to a level that the system can cope with
"it's really about time we start relying on data"
when asked to clarify that he responds that their preliminary data hints at the virus not being spread via surfaces but close contact, he also mentions the first known case in Germany, where a lady from China only infected one colleague she was working closely with, no one at the restaurant, no cab driver, no one on public transport. despite being highly infectious.
when asked about whether he seems the same pattern in the cases of his study [the small village] he responds that they can usually trace the chain of infection
-says that another reason why he's opposed to a strict curfew is overall health, sitting at home away from the sun not being great for our immune systems. says the example of four people sitting on a blanket in the park being forbidden isn't supported by by facts since sars cov 2 infection happens via droplets, not via air.
mentions he would give different advice if it was a different disease like pox.
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Of course half the people in UK haven't had it. Why would hospitals be full now and not before? Why would there be such difference between countries and with-in countries or even counties. Why are lockdowns working in similar fashion everywhere in the world. These things are not hard if you think for 1 second.
Well avoided. We'll leave it there though as we won't agree.
Me too. I experienced exactly the same symptoms as badly affected and tested covid19 sufferers have complained about.
Many media were commenting on how serious flu cases requiring hospital care were 8 times higher in Dec 2019 than previous years:
An early start to the flu season has left 2,092 needing hospital care for flu so far in December 2019. By comparison, there were 256 hospital admissions at the same point last year (2018)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7810129/Flu-cases-EIGHT-TIMES-higher-point-UK-winter.html
Rise in flu deaths and patients admitted to hospital triggers government alert to GPs. There were eight deaths in intensive care units in the week to 8 December where flu was a factor
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tal-ill-patient-gps-vaccine-phe-a9244201.html
Hundreds of thousands of people could have Christmas ruined by flu, say England's top doctors, who are predicting a rise in cases. They say the flu season has started early this year, with lots of the virus circulating. GP consultations for flu-like illness were up by a quarter to nearly 7,500 visits in the week ending 8 December.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50807003
UK flu hotspots revealed as health bosses warn cases soar by 25% and Christmas ‘wipeout’
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10560866/uk-flu-hotspots-cases-soar-christmas-wipeout/
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Interesting read, cheers for that.
Thanks for taking the time to do that.
No need to try and be a patronising arse, just think a bit more before replying in future please, it's really not a good look.
I was merely pointing out a much higher percentage have likely had this thing than we know about, and likewise some have likely died alot earlier than we know about (more so that it actually been half), and that is a good, positive thing.
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I am an independentist. But I am sure is happening in Catalonia too. Though probably less as there is beach thereSent it to my ex-boss (very pro independence Catalan). Her reply:
In the case of France if you are basing it on the wilki page than the stat is two weeks old, it's the amount of tests done until March 27th.
Interesting, has there been much coverage on this? I've not seen it.
Checking from worldometers: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Who's to say deaths since December haven't been due to covid 19? But because it wasn't a massive issue then they were just out down as flu or the underlying health condition?
How do you know half the people haven't had it? Didn't know you had tested everyone.
It unlikely 50% have already had it, but just because only X amount have been tested doesn't mean that's the correct number. It could be any number, but some show no symptoms so never get a test, others just fight it off naturally so never get tested.
It may have have just hit speak spreading rate and starting to overwhelm the hospital's now.
Lockdowns are obviously working due to the nature of the virus. Stay in, can't come in contact with others, virus doesn't spread. Stops peak exposure.
Maybe if you get your head out your arse and think for one second you might actually be able to have an actual discussion with people instead of thinking your Bertie big bollocks who knows all.
There's a lot of good information in the thread then alot of complete whoppers just pretending they know what they're talking about.
And you didn't notice that it hasn't moved for a while? The next report is tomorrow, the previous one was on April 2nd and the stat from March 27.
This makes quite a lot of sense to me (I have no scientific background and am actually thick as pig shite).
Surely if the virus was surviving on surfaces and infectious from them (it survives doesn't it? Just can't be reactivated to cause harm?) then wouldn't we be seeing a shit ton of cases due to pizza delivery, Amazon deliveries, cash exchanges, that sort of thing? Everyone is turning into shopaholics online. Unless Amazon and co are doing every thing perfectly, never sneezing etc.
Always thought it was weird how non essential deliveries were still allowed if the virus survives on cardboard fairly well.
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I've not heard/read that Diarrhoea is a covid19 symptom and yet it seems as though it's significant:
"New research out of China shows that a minority of cases appear with gastrointestinal symptoms only. In about one-quarter of patients in the new study, diarrhoea and other digestive symptoms were the only symptoms seen in mild COVID-19 cases, and those patients sought medical care later than those with respiratory symptoms."
Some patients with COVID-19 experience gastrointestinal symptoms, particularly diarrhoea, as the first sign of illness, according to a new study. Among this subset of patients — who have mild disease overall — respiratory symptoms show up only later in the illness, and some never develop respiratory symptoms at all, the authors said. The findings are important because those without classic symptoms of COVID-19— such as cough, shortness of breath and fever — may go undiagnosed and could potentially spread the illness to others, the researchers said.
We found that digestive symptoms are common in patients with COVID-19. Moreover, these patients have a longer time from onset to admission, evidence of longer coagulation, and higher liver enzyme levels. Clinicians should recognize that digestive symptoms, such as diarrhea, are commonly among the presenting features of COVID-19, and that the index of suspicion may need to be raised earlier in at-risk patients presenting with digestive symptoms. However, further large sample studies are needed to confirm these findings.
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This is like when some maniac goes nuts on the streets, and they'll say, "well, we were aware of them".
Well, great lot of good!
Aye, that's a strange one, our lass had the shits the other day, thought nothing of it because it wasn't mentioned much. I think it's a 1% thing on a leaflet I have? But if they're saying it's only 1% of cases but could be in 25% that could be a huge sign a lot more people have had it than originally thought.
Felt off today. Itchy throat - now feeling tired but not sure if that's linked. No idea if I've got it. Been going into work but it's extremely unlikely that I could have caught it from there since there's hardly anyone else in.
Really interesting given what we know now.
According to a report in the Journal of the American Medical Association, as many as 98% of COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized had a fever, between 76% and 82% had a dry cough, and 11% to 44% reported exhaustion and fatigue.
Don't panic, but I'd take tomorrow off if I were you, and self isolate at home for next 2 days. Even if you have it, am sure you'll be fine. Stay in touch!
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This is in line with cases of coronavirus being traced back as far as November. Given what we know now about this virus, it's entirely plausible that this was spreading relatively undetected for months before the first few cases were identified.
Given what we know about the virus I’d argue the exact opposite. If it’s been in the West for months before the first cases why was the infection rate or the mortality rate so low?
Why the exponential growth and need for ventilators in the last few weeks and not back then?
Singapore is a very small country. There is no hiding, not possible even if the government wish to.
As mentioned by massi83, most cases happened in the last two weeks. We only just started our "circuit breaker" (fancy name for stay in shelter) this week. Prior to that, the numbers of infections are low and almost every case was accounted for. The daily briefings not only tells us how many new cases per day, it also tells us the links between each case.
Unfortunately as the community spread widens, now we have a huge number of cases with no established link. As of now, we have 29 patients in ICU. The spike in numbers these two weeks might translate into more critical cases and deaths in the following weeks.
I don't think we'll know for quite a while but it's a possibility. It just means that the virus is less deadly than thought but more of the population has had it, and we are in the peak now.
Would be great news but I think unlikely.