SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Nytram Shakes]

WHO's advice has been a lot more useful to Americans than the federal government's advice in the past 4 months. The WHO benefits US citizen's, and that had been the bipartisan consensus for decades.


This is him trying to deflect blame by laying it at the feet of those more competent and capable than him.

Like i said i'm not defending the action. and your right it is deflection. But it is going to become more common place that countries cut funding to world wide charitable organisations over the coming years in order to cut over heads. That's just the reality of governments having to borrow at unparalleled levels during a period when the the economy is shrinking at a record breaking level.

Over the coming years there is going to be and will need to be massive cuts to compensate for that that just a reality people need to be prepared for. Things like the WHO and organisation like that are going to be hit hard. But then so are pretty much every aspect of government funding.

Of course that doesn't take away that this is the wrong time for Trump to do it.

 

[JMack1234]

I do wonder if the government are going to give us some sort of info in how they plan to release us tomorrow. Or if they'll still guard it as if it's a state secret.

Before too long, an exit plan will absolutely vital to keeping the public on board.

 

[MTF]

Yeah, with the overcrowded and narrow favelas and the impossibility to implement anything inside the most problematic ones will be difficult. And with the massive population in Sao Paulo... hopefully up north with the heat and humidity will be more difficult to spread (if it is true what they say) but yeah, Bolsonario is quite a piece of work. Do you believe him on that he had covid19?

I think he didn't have it. Not everyone on the brazilian delegation that made the trip to the US had it, seemed about 50/50 those who got it and those who didn't. The reason I think Bolsonaro indeed didn't have it is that he seemed fine all of the past 5 weeks. I don't think he'd have been ok if he'd been infected.

 

[Heardy]

I do wonder if the government are going to give us some sort of info in how they plan to release us tomorrow. Or if they'll still guard it as if it's a state secret.

Before too long, an exit plan will absolutely vital to keeping the public on board.

It’s surely too early to say? Need to know as best we can we are past the initial peak.

 

[Camilo]

Cycling is a viable alternative in the short term.

Great idea. We'll commission the 4.5 million bikes now, then commission the 4.5 million protective suits after. Genius.

I think most people on Europe are at the feck it stage now, nobody I know cares anymore.

 

[Withnail]

Great idea. We'll commission the 4.5 million bikes now, then commission the 4.5 million protective suits after. Genius.

I think most people on Europe are at the feck it stage now, nobody I know cares anymore.

Cares about what?

Getting infected/following the rules or social distancing?

Everyone I know in Ireland is settling in for the long haul. Some people are getting a bit more relaxed and not as strict as they were but when I go out people are still making sure not to come too close to you if they don't have to.

 

[JMack1234]

It’s surely too early to say? Need to know as best we can we are past the initial peak.

It's too early to put any dates on it for sure. They can't say that we're going to re-open these sections of the economy on the 8th of May at quarter-past three.

However, the government can tell us what they plan to do. What sectors can return to work first? Will it be national or by region? Will the young be allowed out first? How are they thinking of phasing schools back.

We deserve to know these questions. It's our law, it's our government and it'll be our taxes that are going to fund the lockdown. The vast vast majority of people are sacrificing their most basic freedoms to help out. The least government can do is let us know how they want to get us out of this. It's only polite...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Cares about what?

Getting infected/following the rules or social distancing?

Everyone I know in Ireland is settling in for the long haul. Some people are getting a bit more relaxed and not as strict as they were but when I go out people are still making sure not to come too close to you if they don't have to.

Yeah, it’s becoming habitual surprisingly quickly. Couldn’t even imagine shaking hands with someone, or squeezing into a crowded pub. With personal safety at risk, I don’t see anyone suddenly switching back to the way we used to behave in any kind of hurry. If anything, it might take a fair bit of encouragement to get people to take their guard down.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's too early to put any dates on it for sure. They can't say that we're going to re-open these sections of the economy on the 8th of May at quarter-past three.

However, the government can tell us what they plan to do. What sectors can return to work first? Will it be national or by region? Will the young be allowed out first? How are they thinking of phasing schools back.

We deserve to know these questions. It's our law, it's our government and it'll be our taxes that are going to fund the lockdown. The vast vast majority of people are sacrificing their most basic freedoms to help out. The least government can do is let us know how they want to get us out of this. It's only polite...

They don’t know the answer to those questions. They do know the lockdown needs to continue. And they hope we’ll have gathered enough data by the time it ends to make an informed decision about what happens next. Meanwhile you need to learn to live with uncertainty. Because uncertainty is all that anyone has right now. Including the people making the decisions.

 

[Hound Dog]

Business Insider has the same credibility on news as Tancredo Palmieri on transfers...

The company is irrelevant, there are quotes.

 

[sullydnl]

Speaking of arseholes being arseholes....

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

John Waters continuing his impressive run of being wrong about everything.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

John Waters continuing his impressive run of being wrong about everything.

They’re so spectacularly loathsome, the pair of them. Cartoon villains.

 

[golden_blunder]

Cycling is a viable alternative in the short term.

Except there was a Belgian study done on joggers and cyclists.. you wouldn’t want to be traveling in their slipstream

 

[JMack1234]

They don’t know the answer to those questions. They do know the lockdown needs to continue. And they hope we’ll have gathered enough data by the time it ends to make an informed decision about what happens next. Meanwhile you need to learn to live with uncertainty. Because uncertainty is all that anyone has right now. Including the people making the decisions.

Obviously the lockdown is being extended for another three weeks before we're considered for release. We all know that.

I'm not saying the government have to publish a perfect exit plan tomorrow but business needs some idea of what's going on. Also if they give us an idea of what the current thinking is it can be picked at, prodded and probed. To make it better.

It's bizarre that the UK Government want to keep their thinking a state secret.

 

[sullydnl]

It's too early to put any dates on it for sure. They can't say that we're going to re-open these sections of the economy on the 8th of May at quarter-past three.

However, the government can tell us what they plan to do. What sectors can return to work first? Will it be national or by region? Will the young be allowed out first? How are they thinking of phasing schools back.

We deserve to know these questions. It's our law, it's our government and it'll be our taxes that are going to fund the lockdown. The vast vast majority of people are sacrificing their most basic freedoms to help out. The least government can do is let us know how they want to get us out of this. It's only polite...

That assumes they already know exactly what they're going to do, as opposed to their plans being influenced by how the next few weeks play out.

Also, if I was the government I'd be very aware of the need to be on point in terms of messaging. Which means my focus would be on continuing to drill home the messaging around locking down, rather than adding in extra info about something that might not happen for weeks. People might want to know what is going to happen and many might think they deserve to know but that doesn't automatically mean it's beneficial for them to know. Especially if what they're told may then be subject to change.

 

[Prometheus]

We scientists said lock down. But UK politicians refused to listen - Helen Ward

Helen Ward is a Professor of Infectious Disease Epidemiology at Imperial.

That day, 12 March, after hearing with disbelief the government announcement that didn’t include widespread social distancing, I recommended to my team at Imperial that they should work from home for the foreseeable future. Indeed, I have not been to my office since.

Neither the advice nor the science were followed that week. My colleagues, led by Neil Ferguson, published a report on 16 March estimating that without strong suppression, 250,000 people could die in the UK. The government responded that day with a recommendation for social distancing, avoiding pubs and working from home if possible. But there was still no enforcement, and it was left up to individuals and employers to decide what to do. Many people were willing but unable to comply as we showed in a report on 20 March. It was only on 23 March that a more stringent lockdown and economic support was announced.

Between 12 and 23 March, tens, if not hundreds of thousands, of people will have been infected. Boris Johnson himself may well have been infected that week, and his stay in the intensive care unit may have been avoided if the government had shifted to remote working on 12 March. The current best estimate is that around 1% of those infected will die.

The WHO advice, based on decades of experience and widely accepted by public health leaders and scientists around the world was clear – use every possible tool to suppress transmission. That meant testing and isolating cases, tracing and quarantining contacts, and ramping up hygiene efforts.

Apparently the UK's own Nervtag (new and emerging respiratory virus threats advisory group) is kind of useless.

China, by contrast, was scarred by its experience of Sars. When the government realised that a new virus was circulating, Chinese officials didn’t advise hand washing, a better cough etiquette and disposing of tissues. They quarantined entire cities and shut down the economy. As one former secretary of state for health in England put it to me, our scientists suffered from a “cognitive bias” towards the milder threat of influenza.

Perhaps that is why the key government committee, the new and emerging respiratory virus threats advisory group (Nervtag), concluded on 21 February, three weeks after the World Health Organization had declared a public health emergency of international concern, that they had no objection to Public Health England’s “moderate” risk assessment of the disease to the UK population. That was a genuinely fatal error of judgement.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...in-failed-prepare-mers-sars-ebola-coronavirus

It's also always interesting to hear what experts think of how China and WHO handled the virus. It's almost always positive.

Whereas in this thread you have post of after post of people regurgitating Brietbart conspiracies.

 

[Dancfc]

Yeah, it’s becoming habitual surprisingly quickly. Couldn’t even imagine shaking hands with someone, or squeezing into a crowded pub. With personal safety at risk, I don’t see anyone suddenly switching back to the way we used to behave in any kind of hurry. If anything, it might take a fair bit of encouragement to get people to take their guard down.

I think it will be the opposite, soon as the coverage slows down whenever that may be people will slip back into the habits eventually be it subconsciously or by choice.

I mean people will make conscious effort at first but ultimately it will be like a New Year's revolution, eventually 99.9% of people will naturally slip back to type once the message isn't being reinforced 24/7 like it is now.

 

[JMack1234]

That assumes they already know exactly what they're going to do, as opposed to their plans being influenced by how the next few weeks play out.

Also, if I was the government I'd be very aware of the need to be on point in terms of messaging. Which means my focus would be on continuing to drill home the messaging around locking down, rather than adding in extra info about something that might not happen for weeks. People might want to know what is going to happen and many might think they deserve to know but that doesn't automatically mean it's beneficial for them to know. Especially if what they're told may then be subject to change.

Business need to know as quickly as possible. The humblest student of business know that the one thing businesses hate is uncertainty so I believe every business deserves to know and that knowledge would be beneficial.

I also think there's a flip side. There will be a section of public getting increasingly sick of lockdown and will need to be given some light a the end of the tunnel.

If the government continue to take the view that such people don't posses the mental faculties to process two messages at the same time. One being about the present, the other being about the future. They may find that people decide that they can't wait for government to give a green light and may have to come a decisions as private citizens on what they deem to appropriate, irrespective on what that inconsequential careerist suit Matthew Hancock says.

 

[4bars]

I think he didn't have it. Not everyone on the brazilian delegation that made the trip to the US had it, seemed about 50/50 those who got it and those who didn't. The reason I think Bolsonaro indeed didn't have it is that he seemed fine all of the past 5 weeks. I don't think he'd have been ok if he'd been infected.

Well, there are asymptomatic people that have 0 symptoms. some studies says over 30% of the infected

 

[Wibble]

Except there was a Belgian study done on joggers and cyclists.. you wouldn’t want to be traveling in their slipstream

After years of commuting I have moved close to work and have cycled to work for more than 6 months and I haven't had even a sniffle in that time unlike previously when minor colds were frequent. So while viruses could be caught by cycling behind an infected person it is likely far less risky than using public transport.

 

[Camy89]

I can't fecking wait for a nice cold pint, beads of condensation running down the sides of the glass, a low murmur of chatter, a rustle of crisps, spontaneous laughter from the other side of the pub, watching football.

 

[4bars]

Apparenty Spain had only been counting deaths in the hospitals. Catalonia will add +3000 more deaths tomorrow to the accounting while the rest will not. So probably the deaths in Spain is around +30.000 (catalonia is double than what they accounted so far, so more or less the same madrid?) and not 18000

 

[Revan]

Apparenty Spain had only been counting deaths in the hospitals. Catalonia will add +3000 more deaths tomorrow to the accounting while the rest will not. So probably the deaths in Spain is around +30.000 (catalonia is double than what they accounted so far, so more or less the same madrid?) and not 18000

FFS, this is really bad.

 

[4bars]

FFS, this is really bad.

It is. Is the same accounting method that France is doing now and they passed from 700 to 1400. The same as Belgium.

Lots of other countries they only counting hospital victims (like Netherlands) and not private homes and elderly nursing homes, so most likely the real deaths toll is closer to 200.000 overall than what is now.

 

[dumbo]

Most unpleasant John Waters contribution since Pink Flamingos.

 

[sammsky1]

 

[sammsky1]

This is 2nd interview from Professor Woo-Joo Kim from Korea University Guro Hospital, who is credited with masterminding South Korea's medical response to covid19.



For proper appreciation, you may benefit from watching his first interview from a few weeks ago:

 

[sammsky1]

The big lesson from South Korea's coronavirus response
Professor Woo-Joo Kim talks about what South Korea learned from MERS and how that transferred into his covid19 strategy



From Geoff Bannister in comments section: I'm a Brit living in Korea. The government response here has been absolutely incredible. I'm a huge advocate for personal privacy, but I'll be the first to admit that all of the information we have been getting from the government through forced emergency messages to our phones is amazing and IMO it should be a necessity. If I go out, I know exactly WHERE and WHAT to avoid. There is obviously a stark difference between the countries that took this seriously to begin with and the countries that didn't. As mentioned in the video - I know that the UK is larger than S. Korea, but IMO all of the deaths in the UK are down to the government just not taking the thing seriously enough.

 

[Darkhorsez]

Not sure if this has been posted ... just looking for some positiveness ....

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/04/15/coronavirus-vaccine-timeline-acfc-vpx.cnn

 

[Charlie Foley]

Most unpleasant John Waters contribution since Pink Flamingos.

He scored 2 goals against Bosnia and Herzegovina to send Ireland to the Euros though

 

[Wibble]

Not sure if this has been posted ... just looking for some positiveness ....

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/04/15/coronavirus-vaccine-timeline-acfc-vpx.cnn

If a vaccine was globally rolled out by the northern hemisphere spring then that would be phenomenal.

 

[Wibble]

Australian Government briefing claims we are detecting 92% of symptomatic cases very few of which are untraceable community transmissions. With only just over 6000 cases, about half of who have recovered and only 41 patients on ventilators this is good news, if true.

 

[Prometheus]

Australian Government briefing claims we are detecting 92% of symptomatic cases very few of which are untraceable community transmissions. With only just over 6000 cases, about half of who have recovered and only 41 patients on ventilators this is good news, if true.

Australia is currently showing the world how it's done.

 

[RK]

Australia keeping the social restrictions for at least another month. That's from 6462 cases and 63 deaths. Seems like Europe has a long path ahead..

 

[sglowrider]

Australia is currently showing the world how it's done.

Coronavirus: Australia's economy faces unprecedented setbacks

 

[Prometheus]

...

What could they have done about that? Every country is taking an (inevitable) economic hit.

 

[sglowrider]

What could they have done about that? Every country is taking an (inevitable) economic hit.

I think there is another approach in trying to balance economic/financial and Welfare -- Japan and Korea both had only semi-lockdowns.

 

[Wibble]

Australia is currently showing the world how it's done.

I think the Kiwis hold that title but we are doing well after a shocking start with failing to quarantine the Ruby Princess. A third of our deaths were onboard and 15% of infections are directly or indirectly linked to the vessel. And there may be up to 600 of the 1000 crew infected currently on the ship in Port Kembla, who aren't included in our numbers as they only get tested when they have to be evacuated for hospitalisation. If all 600 have Covid that would link 25% of all Australian infection to the one ship. Australian Border Force and NSW Health fecked up but I think the ship's owners are going to end up charged with corporate manslaughter (or whatever it is called under Australia law) as the suspicion is that they lied about having Covid patients onboard to get them off the ship ASAP.

 

[Wibble]

Coronavirus: Australia's economy faces unprecedented setbacks

We don't have a very big manufacturing sector which doesn't help but I'd have liked to see a harder lockdown with schools closed for a start.

 

[Grinner]

I'm getting a bit bored of the old man walking story now.