SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[arnie_ni]

Im on an NFL forum as well and have just seen a guy post this about the wearing of masks in public:

"It’s just a symbol of oppression. Showing that gov is controlling you"

 

[Pink Moon]

Im on an NFL forum as well and have just seen a guy post this about the wearing of masks in public:

"It’s just a symbol of oppression. Showing that gov is controlling you"

American?

 

[11101]

This just isn't going to happen. HMRC do not have the resources to investigate the volume of businesses who are making claims. There is nearly a quarter of the population on furlough.

Just as they do with tax returns they will audit a selection. It's up each business to run the risk of being one of those selected.

They also better not be daft enough to invoice for any work or pay anything out during this period as that would be particularly easy to flag up.

 

[arnie_ni]

American?

Yup. Mental

 

[worldgonemad]

Its not open yet thats why. The portal for self employed to claim opens next week

Which scheme is this @arnie_ni ? i,m in uk and received 1st gov furlough payment last week.

 

[noodlehair]

I don't really understand what we're doing at this point. I havent really understood at any point but now it's just bordering on sheer lunacy.

I thought the whole point of lockdown was to allow the health service to cope during the peak period which would also potentially have come at a time when they are already stretched. Now we are past both of those possibilities and ae still carrying on exactly the same.

Who are we even saving at this point? The virus is not going to go away and one way or another most people will get it before there is a vaccine...unless they are literally made to live a life of misery as permanent prisoners in their own home. Even those who don't get it before there is a vaccine...the vaccine wont help a lot of them who the virus is actually a risk to.

I don't know anyone who's been affected by corona virus, yet know countless people who've lost jobs, income, opportunities, who are living in misery or who's mental health has been severely affected. A friend of a work colleague has committed suicide. My dad who's been forced to self isolate has seen his health deteriorate where he can't exercise and has been drinking and smoking more. My mum has severe mental health issues and I'm not even allowed to see her to check she is ok. things like this are 500x more widespread as corona virus and for a signnifiant percentage of people are a far bigger risk.

We're on the verge of a point now where we are killing and torturing people rather than helping them, I'm afraid. I see people laughing at people who think they're being "opressed"...but the reality is we've all had most of our freedoms taken away with no guarantee we'll ge tthem back, and if I asked anyone to explain what it's actually achieving, it's very hard to say it's achieving anythhing at all as there is literally NO evidence or plan to support any argument.

We're at 30,000 deaths, plus probably a whole load more, plus a whole load more again that are due to lockdown measures rather than the virus. The recorded overall death numbers suggest lockdown is killing thousands a week already. There will be a much bigger death toll number next to the lockdown/economic impact in the longer term. If the aim is to save lives where is the evidence that it is doing that?

 

[arnie_ni]

Which scheme is this @arnie_ni ? i,m in uk and received 1st gov furlough payment last week.

The self employed help one. Not the one for employees

 

[balaks]

I don't really understand what we're doing at this point. I havent really understood at any point but now it's just bordering on sheer lunacy.

I thought the whole point of lockdown was to allow the health service to cope during the peak period which would also potentially have come at a time when they are already stretched. Now we are past both of those possibilities and ae still carrying on exactly the same.

Who are we even saving at this point? The virus is not going to go away and one way or another most people will get it before there is a vaccine...unless they are literally made to live a life of misery as permanent prisoners in their own home. Even those who don't get it before there is a vaccine...the vaccine wont help a lot of them who the virus is actually a risk to.

I don't know anyone who's been affected by corona virus, yet know countless people who've lost jobs, income, opportunities, who are living in misery or who's mental health has been severely affected. A friend of a work colleague has committed suicide. My dad who's been forced to self isolate has seen his health deteriorate where he can't exercise and has been drinking and smoking more. My mum has severe mental health issues and I'm not even allowed to see her to check she is ok. things like this are 500x more widespread as corona virus and for a signnifiant percentage of people are a far bigger risk.

We're on the verge of a point now where we are killing and torturing people rather than helping them, I'm afraid. I see people laughing at people who think they're being "opressed"...but the reality is we've all had most of our freedoms taken away with no guarantee we'll ge tthem back, and if I asked anyone to explain what it's actually achieving, it's very hard to say it's achieving anythhing at all as there is literally NO evidence or plan to support any argument.

We're at 30,000 deaths, plus probably a whole load more, plus a whole load more again that are due to lockdown measures rather than the virus. The recorded overall death numbers suggest lockdown is killing thousands a week already. There will be a much bigger death toll number next to the lockdown/economic impact in the longer term. If the aim is to save lives where is the evidence that it is doing that?

If we didn't lock down then then we would have literally thousands of people dieing every single day at this point instead of hundreds not only because of exponential growth of virus infections but with the NHS being overwhelmed completely and many more people dieing due to not being able to access care. Thankfully the measures taken have ensured this has not happened but things are still extremely serious. 30,000 deaths over a few months is absolutely a national tragedy. This sucks, it's fecking horrible but it needs to happen right now. Your question 'who are we saving now?' is the many hundreds of people who didn't and won't die every day because of the measures put in place - just because you dont see it doesnt mean it's a real thing.

We will lessen things a bit but life will not become back to how things were for probably a few years at least - this is something we just need to accept and learn to live with unfortunately. Personally I'm absolutely dreading next winter unless we can get progress in treatments and testing.

 

[Rado_N]

The self employed help one. Not the one for employees

HMRC have started the process of contacting people for the self employed grant, and have invited taxpayers or their agents to check their eligibility online.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...their-claims-for-coronavirus-covid-19-support

 

[Heardy]

The biggest mindfeck for me on all of this is why have the UK not got stricter on border control / enforcing quarantine on people entering the country?!

It seems that those countries that have been stricter here have faired far better than we have!

 

[11101]

I don't really understand what we're doing at this point. I havent really understood at any point but now it's just bordering on sheer lunacy.

I thought the whole point of lockdown was to allow the health service to cope during the peak period which would also potentially have come at a time when they are already stretched. Now we are past both of those possibilities and ae still carrying on exactly the same.

Who are we even saving at this point? The virus is not going to go away and one way or another most people will get it before there is a vaccine...unless they are literally made to live a life of misery as permanent prisoners in their own home. Even those who don't get it before there is a vaccine...the vaccine wont help a lot of them who the virus is actually a risk to.

I don't know anyone who's been affected by corona virus, yet know countless people who've lost jobs, income, opportunities, who are living in misery or who's mental health has been severely affected. A friend of a work colleague has committed suicide. My dad who's been forced to self isolate has seen his health deteriorate where he can't exercise and has been drinking and smoking more. My mum has severe mental health issues and I'm not even allowed to see her to check she is ok. things like this are 500x more widespread as corona virus and for a signnifiant percentage of people are a far bigger risk.

We're on the verge of a point now where we are killing and torturing people rather than helping them, I'm afraid. I see people laughing at people who think they're being "opressed"...but the reality is we've all had most of our freedoms taken away with no guarantee we'll ge tthem back, and if I asked anyone to explain what it's actually achieving, it's very hard to say it's achieving anythhing at all as there is literally NO evidence or plan to support any argument.

We're at 30,000 deaths, plus probably a whole load more, plus a whole load more again that are due to lockdown measures rather than the virus. The recorded overall death numbers suggest lockdown is killing thousands a week already. There will be a much bigger death toll number next to the lockdown/economic impact in the longer term. If the aim is to save lives where is the evidence that it is doing that?

All things that pale in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of people who have died and will die from this. I don't understand the mentality of being more concerned with your work and social life than people's lives. My job has come to a standstill and I may well lose it soon but i know it's for something more important. I can get another job, those people who died can't.

Governments around the world are doing their best to protect the economy and people's freedoms, but with the exception of the orange idiot everybody correctly places more importance on the saving lives bit.

 

[arnie_ni]

HMRC have started the process of contacting people for the self employed grant, and have invited taxpayers or their agents to check their eligibility online.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...their-claims-for-coronavirus-covid-19-support

Yea, the portal opens next week to submit your claim. Just need an online account set up. I gather the process is to be quite simple.

Agents can't do it though and i know alot of older clients that hardly even know how to turn on a computer

 

[Rado_N]

Yea, the portal opens next week to submit your claim. Just need an online account set up. I gather the process is to be quite simple.

Agents can't do it though and i know alot of older clients that hardly even know how to turn on a computer

Yea them not allowing agents to actually complete the claim is infuriating.

 

[Heardy]

All things that pale in comparison to the hundreds of thousands of people who have died and will die from this. I don't understand the mentality of being more concerned with your work and social life than people's lives. My job has come to a standstill and I may well lose it soon but i know it's for something more important. I can get another job, those people who died can't.

Governments around the world are doing their best to protect the economy and people's freedoms, but with the exception of the orange idiot everybody correctly places more importance on the saving lives bit.

Isn’t part of the argument, that the government response (lockdown) has the potential knock on effect of killing people?!

Fear and huge financial strain caused by economic fallout leading increased stress/anxiety, causing increases in suicide rates etc.

more routine treatment/operations being missed, postponed, deferred resulting in undiagnosed or untreated cancers etc

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Isn’t part of the argument, that the government response (lockdown) has the potential knock on effect of killing people?!

Fear and huge financial strain caused by economic fallout leading increased stress/anxiety, causing increases in suicide rates etc.

more routine treatment/operations being missed, postponed, deferred resulting in undiagnosed or untreated cancers etc

It’s a flawed argument because letting the virus spread unchecked will also cause all of the above.

When hospitals are overrun and news channels full of footage of young people dying for lack of a ventilator everyone will be so shit scared the vast majority will go into self imposed lockdown. They certainly won’t be out spending money like usual.

You’ll still get people with possible cancer too frightened to go to hospital to get checked out and the non-Covid healthcare services will be much worse hit than they are now, with a higher death rate across the board. There’s also an interesting phenomenon now where no sports, very little traffic and no pubs/clubs is keeping A&E departments quiet. Doesn’t bear thinking about the impact of unchecked Covid on top of business as usual.

 

[711]

I don't really understand what we're doing at this point. I havent really understood at any point but now it's just bordering on sheer lunacy.

I thought the whole point of lockdown was to allow the health service to cope during the peak period which would also potentially have come at a time when they are already stretched. Now we are past both of those possibilities and ae still carrying on exactly the same.

Who are we even saving at this point? The virus is not going to go away and one way or another most people will get it before there is a vaccine...unless they are literally made to live a life of misery as permanent prisoners in their own home. Even those who don't get it before there is a vaccine...the vaccine wont help a lot of them who the virus is actually a risk to.

I don't know anyone who's been affected by corona virus, yet know countless people who've lost jobs, income, opportunities, who are living in misery or who's mental health has been severely affected. A friend of a work colleague has committed suicide. My dad who's been forced to self isolate has seen his health deteriorate where he can't exercise and has been drinking and smoking more. My mum has severe mental health issues and I'm not even allowed to see her to check she is ok. things like this are 500x more widespread as corona virus and for a signnifiant percentage of people are a far bigger risk.

We're on the verge of a point now where we are killing and torturing people rather than helping them, I'm afraid. I see people laughing at people who think they're being "opressed"...but the reality is we've all had most of our freedoms taken away with no guarantee we'll ge tthem back, and if I asked anyone to explain what it's actually achieving, it's very hard to say it's achieving anythhing at all as there is literally NO evidence or plan to support any argument.

We're at 30,000 deaths, plus probably a whole load more, plus a whole load more again that are due to lockdown measures rather than the virus. The recorded overall death numbers suggest lockdown is killing thousands a week already. There will be a much bigger death toll number next to the lockdown/economic impact in the longer term. If the aim is to save lives where is the evidence that it is doing that?

There's no doubt the restrictions have saved lives up to now, and I suggest having a lower base for future infection means it will continue to do so even as those restrictions are lifted.

As for that lifting, you only have to wait until Sunday to find out the first changes, that's not long considering how important this is.

 

[balaks]

It’s a flawed argument because letting the virus spread unchecked will also cause all of the above.

When hospitals are overrun and news channels full of footage of young people dying for lack of a ventilator everyone will be so shit scared the vast majority will go into self imposed lockdown. They certainly won’t be out spending money like usual.

You’ll still get people with possible cancer too frightened to go to hospital to get checked out and the non-Covid healthcare services will be much worse hit than they are now, with a higher death rate across the board.

100% this - people that think that everything will be fine and back to normal if the lockdown is lifted are deluded. People are scared and will continue to be scared until we have a vaccine, lockdown or no lockdown and that will impact on the economy regardless.

 

[arnie_ni]

Yea them not allowing agents to actually complete the claim is infuriating.

Normally with these online accounts we get the client in and do it for them while they sit there to deal with the GDPR issue but the boss has already said when we go back there'll be no clients in the office

 

[Wolverine]

I don't really understand what we're doing at this point. I havent really understood at any point but now it's just bordering on sheer lunacy.

I hear you, what I will say is that at around the peak of the pandemic in this country a major hospital ran out of oxygen, ICU capacity was reaching its peak

What we are seeing incidentally in people post-extubation in recovery from COVID19 is high instances of PTSD and withdrawal symptoms from the heavy sedation that have profound psychosocial implications including guilt and suicidal ideation. What would happen if we hadn't had the lockdown and indeed been or go back to business as usual is an even exponentially worse psychological impact on society.

Nobody underestimates the cost the lockdown is having on society. But mass graves, funerals with nobody attending, hospitals which consist not mainly of patients but of body bags, no oxygen or treatment was and still is a possibility if we let this thing overwhelm us.

I am grateful for still having family members of mine who are immunocompromised, frail for not having caught this thing including a niece who is 1 year old with an aggressive brain tumour that renders her white cell count at zero post-chemo. This disease is oxygen and ventilator-dependant and affects young and old. It has an incredibly profound impact not just on families of the dead but even those who recover.

That being said I agree that we need more with regards to improving safety nets for those impacted in addition to finding a way to ease restrictions and allow people to return to work but this has to be in adjunct with mass testing and surveillance programme to minimise spread.

 

[Jippy]

I know the right wing press has been churning out their jingoistic shit about Britain leading the global fight against coronavirus but are people actually swallowing this?
Today in The Sun they have a piece saying Heathrow is to trial thermal camera imaging in the fight against corona with this quote.

Chiefs are hoping the trial will be successful enough that other major airports can also use the same measures.

WTf? Singapore had this at least in mid-February, yet we're talking about Britain pioneering some amazing new technology

 

[Rado_N]

Normally with these online accounts we get the client in and do it for them while they sit there to deal with the GDPR issue but the boss has already said when we go back there'll be no clients in the office

We’ve been talking about the 30 day CGT reporting which requires the client to set up their own gov gateway and then set up an account to report property gains, at which point they can give authority for us. Our current planning is screen sharing via Skype and we do it for them as they watch what we’re doing.

Bloody ballache.

 

[11101]

Isn’t part of the argument, that the government response (lockdown) has the potential knock on effect of killing people?!

Fear and huge financial strain caused by economic fallout leading increased stress/anxiety, causing increases in suicide rates etc.

more routine treatment/operations being missed, postponed, deferred resulting in undiagnosed or untreated cancers etc

Everybody is trying to strike a balance. There are 16 suicides a day in the UK. 500 Covid deaths is considered a good day. At the moment the virus still poses a far greater risk than anything else.

I know the right wing press has been churning out their jingoistic shit about Britain leading the global fight against coronavirus but are people actually swallowing this?
Today in The Sun they have a piece saying Heathrow is to trial thermal camera imaging in the fight against corona with this quote.


WTf? Singapore had this at least in mid-February, yet we're talking about Britain pioneering some amazing new technology

Hong Kong installed them about 5 years ago. Even Italy, possibly the most disorganised country on the planet, is going as far as putting them in railway stations too.

 

[arnie_ni]

We’ve been talking about the 30 day CGT reporting which requires the client to set up their own gov gateway and then set up an account to report property gains, at which point they can give authority for us. Our current planning is screen sharing via Skype and we do it for them as they watch what we’re doing.

Bloody ballache.

Tbh i thought solicitors would deal with the new cgt reporting rules.

Alot of clients dont come to accountants before making decisions until its to late

 

[Buster15]

I know the right wing press has been churning out their jingoistic shit about Britain leading the global fight against coronavirus but are people actually swallowing this?
Today in The Sun they have a piece saying Heathrow is to trial thermal camera imaging in the fight against corona with this quote.


WTf? Singapore had this at least in mid-February, yet we're talking about Britain pioneering some amazing new technology

Only halfwits and Daily Mail readers must be dim enough to actually believe in the rubbish this government is spouting.

 

[Rado_N]

Tbh i thought solicitors would deal with the new cgt reporting rules.

A lot of clients dont come to accountants before making decisions until its to late

We’ve been pushing the change to clients in our regular updates etc. so hoping they’ll bring it to us. I’ve got 2 I know I’ll be doing next week.

Solicitors will (with all due respect) not get it right.

Bold - ain’t that the fecking truth.

 

[Wolverine]

It’s a flawed argument because letting the virus spread unchecked will also cause all of the above.

When hospitals are overrun and news channels full of footage of young people dying for lack of a ventilator everyone will be so shit scared the vast majority will go into self imposed lockdown. They certainly won’t be out spending money like usual.

You’ll still get people with possible cancer too frightened to go to hospital to get checked out and the non-Covid healthcare services will be much worse hit than they are now, with a higher death rate across the board. There’s also an interesting phenomenon now where no sports, very little traffic and no pubs/clubs is keeping A&E departments quiet. Doesn’t bear thinking about the impact of unchecked Covid on top of business as usual.

These really are excellent points
Slightly ashamed but I just totally verbatim stole this and mentioned it during a Microsoft Teams MDT meeting I'm having right now in response to our line manager who's anti-lockdown. Hoping they don't test my VPN to see that I get all my original COVID-19 ideas from a man utd fan online forum

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

I see that the UK now has had the most deaths in Europe now. Time for Boris and Hancock to resign over their handling of this?

 

[Vidyoyo]

I know the right wing press has been churning out their jingoistic shit about Britain leading the global fight against coronavirus but are people actually swallowing this?
Today in The Sun they have a piece saying Heathrow is to trial thermal camera imaging in the fight against corona with this quote.


WTf? Singapore had this at least in mid-February, yet we're talking about Britain pioneering some amazing new technology

The empire is back boys

 

[Pogue Mahone]

These really are excellent points
Slightly ashamed but I just totally verbatim stole this and mentioned it during a Microsoft Teams MDT meeting I'm having right now in response to our line manager who's anti-lockdown. Hoping they don't test my VPN to see that I get all my original COVID-19 ideas from a man utd fan online forum

 

[SteveJ]

Can't wait for the independent enquiry, led by Sir Montmorency Hyde-Cecil and Lady Beezlebub Tiffin, former Chairs of the Conservative Party.

 

[nimic]

These really are excellent points
Slightly ashamed but I just totally verbatim stole this and mentioned it during a Microsoft Teams MDT meeting I'm having right now in response to our line manager who's anti-lockdown. Hoping they don't test my VPN to see that I get all my original COVID-19 ideas from a man utd fan online forum

If this isn't worthy of some kind of tagline, I don't know what is.

 

[prateik]

An interesting story from the BBC on "pool testing" of samples for coronavirus in Ghana. Basically taking samples from a group of (ten for example) people and testing them all simultaneously. Then, if you get a positive result, you test the ten samples individually.

Obviously the advantages of such an approach would only be felt if coronavirus is a rarity in the group you're testing.

It did make me start thinking about testing entire football squads, or classes of kids, or families, or even carehomes every couple of days. Though, I must admit I was surprised that the approach might work at all in lab terms - it does say Germany and India have tried it as well, so hopefully there's good news on that front.

The BBC story:

Spoiler: BBC live feed story

Ghana has adopted "pool testing" of samples to maximise the use of coronavirus test kits that are in short supply globally.

It involves testing up to 10 samples in a single test. If any of the samples tests positive, then the entire batch is tested individually to identify the infected sample.

Scientists believe that the method is a valuable time saver in the fight against Covid-19 and has seen Ghana test more than 100,000 samples so far.

But it is only efficient while Ghana's infection rates remain low and the accuracy of the method has been disputed in some quarters.

"The limitations come in when the majority of the wells test positive in which case you have to rerun the majority of the pooled samples again and you lose the benefit of the efficiency of doing them concurrently," says Nana Kofi Quakyi, a research fellow at New York University’s School of Public Health.

Germany and India have adopted similar methods in testing for the virus - allowing them to expand their screening capacity and improve detection in communities.

Ghana's medical drones have being deployed to deliver Covid-19 samples directly to laboratories, the first country to do so in the world.

This enables authorities to identify and isolate infected persons quickly and contain the spread of the virus.

Is that a smart way of doing things? I read somewhere that the tests could work if there were 3000 copies/mL .. any lower and it would register a negative..
Even if that is improved with time, wouldnt mixing 10 samples dilute it and potentially lead to more false negatives?

 

[JPRouve]

If this isn't worthy of some kind of tagline, I don't know what is.

"Steals ideas from sexy pharma sales reps."

 

[Wibble]

Fair enough which is why I said so, but you don't think my opinions hold any merit at all? The fact of the matter is, there are countries where a lockdown hadn't been imposed and are doing well due to a solid testing, tracing and isolating regime, although admittedly this is easier said than done.

I think your points were just about totally wrong - in some cases because there is nuance involved.

Where you.started lockdown from has a huge affect. Sometimes it is early enough to limit and virtually eliminate the virus and in others it happens too late, so minimising spread is the best case scenrio. In all cases lockdown provides a health benefit.

Just look at California compared to other states.

 

[Buster15]

I see that the UK now has had the most deaths in Europe now. Time for Boris and Hancock to resign over their handling of this?

They are still trying to convince the public that they are world leaders in the fight against the Corona Virus.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Im on an NFL forum as well and have just seen a guy post this about the wearing of masks in public:

"It’s just a symbol of oppression. Showing that gov is controlling you"

It’s galling that America’s response has pivoted so hard.

It’s as if someone verbalised the thought “They don’t care that they’re dying...” and acted accordingly.

 

[The Purley King]

Definitely, that's a bigger rate limiting step than the swabs which will have to be overcome if this antibody test comes through. From the phleb clinics I've seen in most GP practices and in hospital outpatients or cancer units they can do blood sampling remarkable quickly and see a lot of patients but its trickier I think with PPE etc.

Most importantly I've lost a lot of trust in government to sort out healthcare problems that require heavy-duty or mass scale logistics. Will be more than happy to be proven wrong on this.

there is a govt backed consortium who are making a finger prick home based antibody test. Should hopefully be ready end of may.
Google odx they are the company who will be making them.

 

[SteveJ]

They are still trying to convince the public that they are world leaders in the fight against the Corona Virus.

I don't understand why they even use this Trumpian tactic. Do they think it really matters to those who are suffering, have suffered, or might potentially suffer, if Britain is the best or worst on the planet? Who, exactly, are the government trying to impress and to what purpose?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

I see that the UK now has had the most deaths in Europe now. Time for Boris and Hancock to resign over their handling of this?

A conservative leadership election and lame duck stand in PM is just what we need.

I can get behind the emotion of the idea but in practice...

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

My mum has severe mental health issues and I'm not even allowed to see her to check she is ok.

Walking on eggshells to not sound even vaguely antagonistic here....

But what’s stopping you seeing her?

No obligation to answer. At all.

If it’s physical locked doors and red tape, I get it.

But if it’s just government messaging, I don’t think you shouldn’t listen to it, if you can ignore it responsibly.