It's really, really not. Wrap your head around itIt’s upsetting but it’s true. The bold is insane.
Ali is a global icon. Tyson is just "some guy" of which there have been before and will come after him.
It's really, really not. Wrap your head around itIt’s upsetting but it’s true. The bold is insane.
Ali is a global icon. Absolutely. I’m closer to a fan of his than I am Tyson. But he was in front of eyeballs for fewer eyeballs, for less time.It's really, really not. Wrap your head around it
Ali was a global icon. Tyson is just "some guy" of which there have been before and will come after him.
Tyson is far more recognised than you are giving him credit for, he was huge during his time, but I agree with your overall point that Ali is way above him in terms of name and recognition. Crazy to state otherwise, particularly using the Hangover as evidence.It's really, really not. Wrap your head around it
Ali is a global icon. Tyson is just "some guy" of which there have been before and will come after him.
Most of the World is under 30.No chance will any of them be known more than Ali. You’re forgetting all the older generations and the fact that Ali transcends boxing.. he’s a bona fide historical figure too.
My grandad and his generation would have no clue about Pac-Man.
Tyson is more known than Pac-Man but Ali is more timeless.
That's like 51% of the population..... which includes 0-4 year olds, who will have absolutely no clue of either. So your math problem is very very flawed as 96-100 year olds will likely know both, but more heavily leaning towards knowing Ali.Most of the World is under 30.
Also, ridiculous.If you're not into boxing, you haven't heard from him, ever.
I might change that to "into sports", since you'd follow general sports websites and have a notion about the most famous boxing names, I'll admit to that.Also, ridiculous.
I met him in LA airport a few years ago and got to have a conversation with him.My cousin fought on his undercard the night he fought in Scotland and he told me he couldn’t really remember it. I bought his book shortly thereafter and he says he was out of his mind on drink and drugs during his time in the UK
The last sentence is really weird. There will be people who recognize him from the hangover movies alone.I can assure you that he definitely wasn't in the Belgian news and probably not in any other West-European countries' news either, unless you count some Twitter videos about him sparring as "international news".
Just the notion that Mike Tyson is more famous than Muhammad Ali really makes me laugh out loud. Ridiculous. If you're not into boxing, you haven't heard from him, ever.
Yup. People don't realise how big he made sneaker culture. His shoes are the very reason sneaker culture exists.Brilliant TV show and it shows that Jordan was way more than just an athlete.
Don't teams play everyone in the regular season, even teams in the other conference?It is two conferences with the winners facing off like the NFL, or is that not what you meant?
You play teams in the other conference twice a season, once home and once away. The standings on which the playoff seeding is based is per conference though, so the best 8 from each conference are qualified for the playoffs. The last decade or so, the West has been much harder to qualify from, but things have been evening up lately.Don't teams play everyone in the regular season, even teams in the other conference?
They did - granted it was nowhere near the size or prominence that it became thanks to the Air Jordan.Yup. People don't realise how big he made sneaker culture. His shoes are the very reason sneaker culture exists.
Nike didn't even have a basketball division before signing him and look at them now!
I really don't think that's the case.Ali is a global icon. Absolutely. I’m closer to a fan of his than I am Tyson. But he was in front of eyeballs for fewer eyeballs, for less time.
Your looking at this from an emotional standpoint rather than a mathematical one.
Both of us are derailing the thread though. Flick me a PM if need be.
I know Tyson for that bite.I really don't think that's the case.
Non boxing fans will remember Ali as the trembling man who lit the Olympic flame, an image that kept being shown on TV.
Tyson is really not as recognisable in countries without boxing culture
I'm not sure how people can spout opinions like this with any claim of objectivity or certainty.I really don't think that's the case.
Non boxing fans will remember Ali as the trembling man who lit the Olympic flame, an image that kept being shown on TV.
Tyson is really not as recognisable in countries without boxing culture
Most non-boxing fans probably do!I know Tyson for that bite.
Why would they be repulsed ?Women were and kinda still are ..... repulsed by Mike. Is that really fame?
If so, might as well throw in OJ.
Joe Rogan talked about this with Tyson on the podcast. There's normal celebrity famous, then there's Tyson/Jordan/Michael Jackson level of superstardom.Tyson’s fame has obviously faded now but at his peak he was just as famous as Jordan at his peak, in my opinion
He was one of the most famous celebrities in the world for a few years, before it all went tits up
Well, I didn't say it definitively.I'm not sure how people can spout opinions like this with any claim of objectivity or certainty.
agrees. This is right up there with the two escobars and you don’t know bo.This is becoming my favourite sports documentary series ever.. MJ hate him or love him, what a combination of mentality, athleticism (agility, strength, speed, explosiveness) and technical ability (that game where he’s just banging three pointers) - unreal.
He's refering to TysonWhy would they be repulsed ?
It's really hard to hate MJ. It is.This is becoming my favourite sports documentary series ever.. MJ hate him or love him, what a combination of mentality, athleticism (agility, strength, speed, explosiveness) and technical ability (that game where he’s just banging three pointers) - unreal.
Yes indeed.Would have been a better documentary if it was made by an unbiased party
He was never gonna talk bad about himself on his own documentary or admit mistakes though. Minimalising the Atlantic City stuff, the gambling, stuff like that, it was to be expected.Yes indeed.
It's been engaging, particularly for me as a Bulls follower from that era, but I've just finished episode 8 and there's still way too much too much opportunity afforded to him to deflect any examination of his personal failings with thinly formulated justifications (usually about wanting to win).
I also don't think Jordan, even in middle age, exhibits a particularly well developed capacity for self-reflection or vulnerability (at least on camera), very little for empathising with the motivations for other people's behaviour, and none at all for forgiveness or admitting error.
Which makes it a poorer documentary than it could have been sadly.
That in no way makes it a poorer documentary, it actually makes it even more interesting. Jordan is not making any efforts to whitewash his past actions at all, and shows no remorse for most of his competitive, verging on bully-like behaviour, which provides really interesting insight into his personality. Most celebs would just be profusely apologising for anything that made them look bad at the time, which would be boring.Yes indeed.
It's been engaging, particularly for me as a Bulls follower from that era, but I've just finished episode 8 and there's still way too much too much opportunity afforded to him to deflect any examination of his personal failings with thinly formulated justifications (usually about wanting to win).
I also don't think Jordan, even in middle age, exhibits a particularly well developed capacity for self-reflection or vulnerability (at least on camera), very little for empathising with the motivations for other people's behaviour, and none at all for forgiveness or admitting error.
Which makes it a poorer documentary than it could have been sadly.
I don't want him to apologise for it if he doesn't feel like he has to apologise for it. But you'd reasonably expect a 57 year old man to at least be able to reflect on his past behaviour with the perspective afforded by age and life experience, acknowledge some fault or at least speak about it with some depth of analysis, but he seems to have very little capacity for it. It was all just monotonous deflections amounting to the same refrain about wanting to win. It's possible he's different off-camera, but he struck me as being like a guy in his early 20s in that regard.That in no way makes it a poorer documentary, it actually makes it even more interesting. Jordan is not making any efforts to whitewash his past actions at all, and shows no remorse for most of his competitive, verging on bully-like behaviour, which provides really interesting insight into his personality. Most celebs would just be profusely apologising for anything that made them look bad at the time, which would be boring.
Yep, that's why I agreed with adex that it would have been a better documentary if it was made by someone less biased.He was never gonna talk bad about himself on his own documentary or admit mistakes though. Minimalising the Atlantic City stuff, the gambling, stuff like that, it was to be expected.
They could've questioned him harder about the stuff though or let others give their version of the facts about it. IT did his story for example. Have to admit that before this, I had always read and heard that Jordan was a cnut and a dick to work with (because of his personality or his hunger to win, I don't know), but this documentary does paint a whole different picture. Since it's mainly his POV, I'm taking it with a pinch of salt.
What did surprise me is how accessible he was to the media and how he did interviews. Some guy said it that sometimes you have to dig deep to get that one quote out of an athlete, but Jordan interviews always seem very interesting and grateful to work with as a journalist. Intriguing.