It's really, really not. Wrap your head around it
Ali is a global icon. Tyson is just "some guy" of which there have been before and will come after him.
Television The Last Dance (ESPN) | 97-98 Bulls and MJ
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Ali is a global icon. Tyson is just "some guy" of which there have been before and will come after him.
Ali is a global icon. Absolutely. I’m closer to a fan of his than I am Tyson. But he was in front of eyeballs for fewer eyeballs, for less time.It's really, really not. Wrap your head around it
Ali was a global icon. Tyson is just "some guy" of which there have been before and will come after him.
Your looking at this from an emotional standpoint rather than a mathematical one.
Both of us are derailing the thread though. Flick me a PM if need be.
Tyson is far more recognised than you are giving him credit for, he was huge during his time, but I agree with your overall point that Ali is way above him in terms of name and recognition. Crazy to state otherwise, particularly using the Hangover as evidence.It's really, really not. Wrap your head around it
Ali is a global icon. Tyson is just "some guy" of which there have been before and will come after him.
Some genunine crap getting spouted throughout this thread now.... all over a bit of a popularity contest that's mostly kind of impossible to prove.
That's like 51% of the population..... which includes 0-4 year olds, who will have absolutely no clue of either. So your math problem is very very flawed as 96-100 year olds will likely know both, but more heavily leaning towards knowing Ali.
Also, ridiculous.
I might change that to "into sports", since you'd follow general sports websites and have a notion about the most famous boxing names, I'll admit to that.
All the factual evidence in my environment however proves that people not really into sports don't know the guy. That's all I can base my opinion on.
I find it tremendously hard that in Western English Speaking culture that is anywhere near the truth - maybe with under 30's.
Not to compare it again but it's almost like saying people not into sports wouldn't know OJ.... or hell even John Terry in Britain.
Tyson was a big deal for as much of the wrong reasons as he was for his rapid rise and knockout power.
Not to compare it again but it's almost like saying people not into sports wouldn't know OJ.... or hell even John Terry in Britain.
Tyson was a big deal for as much of the wrong reasons as he was for his rapid rise and knockout power.
Notorious B.I.G. put Tyson up there with Jordan so that's all that should matter if you aren't a pedant
I met him in LA airport a few years ago and got to have a conversation with him.My cousin fought on his undercard the night he fought in Scotland and he told me he couldn’t really remember it. I bought his book shortly thereafter and he says he was out of his mind on drink and drugs during his time in the UK
The last sentence is really weird. There will be people who recognize him from the hangover movies alone.
Brilliant TV show and it shows that Jordan was way more than just an athlete.
Yup. People don't realise how big he made sneaker culture. His shoes are the very reason sneaker culture exists.
Nike didn't even have a basketball division before signing him and look at them now!
Next week's episodes should be about his father's death and baseball/space jam right?
Don't teams play everyone in the regular season, even teams in the other conference?
You play teams in the other conference twice a season, once home and once away. The standings on which the playoff seeding is based is per conference though, so the best 8 from each conference are qualified for the playoffs. The last decade or so, the West has been much harder to qualify from, but things have been evening up lately.
They did - granted it was nowhere near the size or prominence that it became thanks to the Air Jordan.
But it was there since the Nike Blazer in 1973.
I really don't think that's the case.
Non boxing fans will remember Ali as the trembling man who lit the Olympic flame, an image that kept being shown on TV.
Tyson is really not as recognisable in countries without boxing culture
I know Tyson for that bite.
I'm not sure how people can spout opinions like this with any claim of objectivity or certainty.
At this stage, I'm going to assume MJ's an alcoholic until proven otherwise. Or a massive pothead.
Let's take a moment to appreciate Isiah scoring 43 points on a clearly injured ankle in game 6 of the 88 finals, including 25 in the third quarter which was a finals record.
Only a phantom foul on Lambeer in the final seconds prevented the pistons from winning three titles in a row.
Only a phantom foul on Lambeer in the final seconds prevented the pistons from winning three titles in a row.
Most non-boxing fans probably do!
Would have been a better documentary if it was made by an unbiased party
If I had to watch one MJ full game, which one should I watch?
The start of episode 5 (or was it 6?) was just a Nike advert.
It worked though, I'd love a pair of them.
It worked though, I'd love a pair of them.
This is becoming my favourite sports documentary series ever.. MJ hate him or love him, what a combination of mentality, athleticism (agility, strength, speed, explosiveness) and technical ability (that game where he’s just banging three pointers) - unreal.
Why would they be repulsed ?
Tyson’s fame has obviously faded now but at his peak he was just as famous as Jordan at his peak, in my opinion
He was one of the most famous celebrities in the world for a few years, before it all went tits up
He was one of the most famous celebrities in the world for a few years, before it all went tits up
Joe Rogan talked about this with Tyson on the podcast. There's normal celebrity famous, then there's Tyson/Jordan/Michael Jackson level of superstardom.
How long do you think it was before MJ could literally walk into a supermarket and buy bread? He probably still can't without being mugged.
Well, I didn't say it definitively.
agrees. This is right up there with the two escobars and you don’t know bo.
He's refering to Tyson
It's really hard to hate MJ. It is.
The man hardly sets a foot wrong as an athlete. Loveable chap. Delivers the hype without fail.
Yes indeed.
It's been engaging, particularly for me as a Bulls follower from that era, but I've just finished episode 8 and there's still way too much too much opportunity afforded to him to deflect any examination of his personal failings with thinly formulated justifications (usually about wanting to win).
I also don't think Jordan, even in middle age, exhibits a particularly well developed capacity for self-reflection or vulnerability (at least on camera), very little for empathising with the motivations for other people's behaviour, and none at all for forgiveness or admitting error.
Which makes it a poorer documentary than it could have been sadly.
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He was never gonna talk bad about himself on his own documentary or admit mistakes though. Minimalising the Atlantic City stuff, the gambling, stuff like that, it was to be expected.
They could've questioned him harder about the stuff though or let others give their version of the facts about it. IT did his story for example. Have to admit that before this, I had always read and heard that Jordan was a cnut and a dick to work with (because of his personality or his hunger to win, I don't know), but this documentary does paint a whole different picture. Since it's mainly his POV, I'm taking it with a pinch of salt.
What did surprise me is how accessible he was to the media and how he did interviews. Some guy said it that sometimes you have to dig deep to get that one quote out of an athlete, but Jordan interviews always seem very interesting and grateful to work with as a journalist. Intriguing.
That in no way makes it a poorer documentary, it actually makes it even more interesting. Jordan is not making any efforts to whitewash his past actions at all, and shows no remorse for most of his competitive, verging on bully-like behaviour, which provides really interesting insight into his personality. Most celebs would just be profusely apologising for anything that made them look bad at the time, which would be boring.
I don't want him to apologise for it if he doesn't feel like he has to apologise for it. But you'd reasonably expect a 57 year old man to at least be able to reflect on his past behaviour with the perspective afforded by age and life experience, acknowledge some fault or at least speak about it with some depth of analysis, but he seems to have very little capacity for it. It was all just monotonous deflections amounting to the same refrain about wanting to win. It's possible he's different off-camera, but he struck me as being like a guy in his early 20s in that regard.
I was just watched an interview with Sugar Ray Leonard who is only six years older, but his emotional maturity and ability to speak reflectively about his past with insight and perspective was about a hundred miles beyond anything that was evident in the Jordan interviews - and frankly I'd say most ageing sports people I've seen interviewed are better at it than Jordan.
Yep, that's why I agreed with adex that it would have been a better documentary if it was made by someone less biased.
Still a good documentary though.
I'm not entirely sure what you want - he's a gambling addict* within reason, he admits it, and he's correct that he's more or less in control of that addiction - none of his family are starving or his ability to do his job is lacking due to it.... okay it might have brought bad coverage, and ridiculous conspiracy theories.
He also admits he's an absolutely ruthless leadership and has no let up.
He openly mocks the person who pays him - and admits his dislike for him.
He still doesn't hide from his dislike of Isiah.
It's covered his punching of teammates - specifically Kerr in this instance.
What exactly do you want from a nonbiased PoV? Do you want it to go into detail on his marital affairs.... for no reason at all( in terms of this documentary ) ? Do you want all those things to be delved deeper into and discuss other examples - essentially making the doc way too long.
If it even did go to the Wizards - which I doubt it will.... I'm sure it'd cover his wonderful crushing of Kwame Brown too.
I'm kinda just curious really. Like I've learnt nothing from this other than the odd tidbit, but enjoyed it a lot. I've just read a lot on the Bulls.
He also admits he's an absolutely ruthless leadership and has no let up.
He openly mocks the person who pays him - and admits his dislike for him.
He still doesn't hide from his dislike of Isiah.
It's covered his punching of teammates - specifically Kerr in this instance.
What exactly do you want from a nonbiased PoV? Do you want it to go into detail on his marital affairs.... for no reason at all( in terms of this documentary ) ? Do you want all those things to be delved deeper into and discuss other examples - essentially making the doc way too long.
If it even did go to the Wizards - which I doubt it will.... I'm sure it'd cover his wonderful crushing of Kwame Brown too.
I'm kinda just curious really. Like I've learnt nothing from this other than the odd tidbit, but enjoyed it a lot. I've just read a lot on the Bulls.
What do people think of this?