Gaming The Last of Us Part II (PS4)

[evil_geko]

I don't need to try. I already called you out once and you ran a mile.

Now here you are talking agendas, and even more laughably, about accepting mediocrity in games! You are such a parody, it amuses me

Sad thing is, we both love a particular game that everyone else seems to hate. Oh, we could be such good gaming friends...if it wasn't for your "agenda pushing".

And ironically, it is you and a few more repeating the "agenda pushing" over and over again like bloody parrots. You mentioned parody? Well there you have it, couldn't agree more. The irony is overflowing in this thread!

You all are aware that "pushing agenda" isn't tied only to diversity and political stuff? Because your posts tell a different story. I keep mentioning the crappy story, you all keep mentioning the "agenda" word and what I meant by it. You couldn't make this up, Benny Hill stuff.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

And ironically, it is you and a few more repeating the "agenda pushing" over and over again like bloody parrots. You mentioned parody? Well there you have it, couldn't agree more. The irony is overflowing in this thread!

You all are aware that "pushing agenda" isn't tied only to diversity and political stuff? Because your posts tell a different story. I keep mentioning the crappy story, you all keep mentioning the "agenda" word and what I meant by it. You couldn't make this up, Benny Hill stuff.

For the people in the back row who didn't quite hear it first time; we keep using the agenda word because we use it in the sentence "what did you mean by agenda pushing?" And because you keep avoiding the question it keeps getting repeated.

It's a really simple question to answer. You can choose one of the following options, or use your own;

A) I don't like certain social agendas being pushed by this game and the advisors that have been brought in during development.
B) I'm not sure why I said it. I'm one of those people who is used to ranting in an echo chamber where we all say stuff like this and I was surprised to see people bring it up on here.
C) I'm a glutton for drama and want to muddy the waters of debate by playing the victim.
D) Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

If you can't answer it then people are going to draw their own conclusions, and the easiest way to stop that is to acknowledge that you haven't been clear up to now and maybe should think about spending 30 seconds clearing up the supposed confusion.

 

[padr81]

its very possible to judge this abomination on its story before release. I don't care about Anita Sarkeesian's job or influence nor do I care about genders or politics because these will not be any way near as heavy handed as made out. I care about the story being one of the biggest shitshows in modern gaming history. It's impossible to say why without spoiling but personally I'm skipping this.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

All this shitstorm has compeltely passed me by... Clearly I'm missing out.

Anyway the trailer was not very good and pretty underwhelming, but who cares, its not a gameplay trailer. It would be like saying the new Assassin's Creed game will be great based on that trailer.

 

[padr81]

All this shitstorm has compeltely passed me by... Clearly I'm missing out.

Anyway the trailer was not very good and pretty underwhelming, but who cares, its not a gameplay trailer. It would be like saying the new Assassin's Creed game will be great based on that trailer.

No spoilers but the story is out and a huge internet shitstorm has exploded over it. This combined with some bigots jumping on certain characters, the involvement of a piece of shit like Sarkeesian who exploits feminism to wange her way into the games industry as an advisor has led to a fine mess.

Sony/Naughty Dogs reaction by trying to get channels shut down on youtube by even striking videos with no footage (and each one 3 times) via hiring a shadowy firm to do its dirty work at 4am when the creators are in bed. In the end it likely won't affect sales and the internet will move on to its next outrage but the entire thing is kind of sad.

That said I spoiled it for myself and I'll be avoiding it/am glad I did too.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Sorry but I'm not in the loop. Why are people trying to spoil this game? I thought Naught Dog were the gaming markets darling?

 

[Ainu]

I don't know what people have read and I don't want to know, but reading a story outline and experiencing it for yourself are two completely different things. If someone would've read the story of The Last of Us to you before playing the game, at best you'd think it's nothing special. Typical zombie apocalypse story and oh look there's a girl who turns out to be immune and could be the cure for the whole of humanity. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. It sounds horribly cliché and done to death on paper. But Naughty Dog turned it into a masterpiece through excellent character writing and fantastic acting performances.

I don't care what you've read and what you think about it, if you were a genuine fan of TLoU and in general of Naughty Dog's work, you owe it to yourself to give this game a chance and trust that those guys know what they're doing. If not, your choice and then I'm sorry for you, but don't come here and act like you know exactly what the game will be like. Because you simply don't. Though I suspect those not even willing to give the game a chance were just waiting for an excuse to start raging at it. There's no other way to explain such behaviour.

 

[Volumiza]

I don't know what people have read and I don't want to know, but reading a story outline and experiencing it for yourself are two completely different things. If someone would've read the story of The Last of Us to you before playing the game, at best you'd think it's nothing special. Typical zombie apocalypse story and oh look there's a girl who turns out to be immune and could be the cure for the whole of humanity. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. It sounds horribly cliché and done to death on paper. But Naughty Dog turned it into a masterpiece through excellent character writing and fantastic acting performances.

I don't care what you've read and what you think about it, if you were a genuine fan of TLoU and in general of Naughty Dog's work, you owe it to yourself to give this game a chance and trust that those guys know what they're doing. If not, your choice and then I'm sorry for you, but don't come here and act like you know exactly what the game will be like. Because you simply don't. Though I suspect those not even willing to give the game a chance were just waiting for an excuse to start raging at it. There's no other way to explain such behaviour.

Good morning

 

[El General 1994]

I don't know what people have read and I don't want to know, but reading a story outline and experiencing it for yourself are two completely different things. If someone would've read the story of The Last of Us to you before playing the game, at best you'd think it's nothing special. Typical zombie apocalypse story and oh look there's a girl who turns out to be immune and could be the cure for the whole of humanity. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. It sounds horribly cliché and done to death on paper. But Naughty Dog turned it into a masterpiece through excellent character writing and fantastic acting performances.

I don't care what you've read and what you think about it, if you were a genuine fan of TLoU and in general of Naughty Dog's work, you owe it to yourself to give this game a chance and trust that those guys know what they're doing. If not, your choice and then I'm sorry for you, but don't come here and act like you know exactly what the game will be like. Because you simply don't. Though I suspect those not even willing to give the game a chance were just waiting for an excuse to start raging at it. There's no other way to explain such behaviour.

Great post. Just give it a chance.

 

[LonelyFire]

I don't know what people have read and I don't want to know, but reading a story outline and experiencing it for yourself are two completely different things. If someone would've read the story of The Last of Us to you before playing the game, at best you'd think it's nothing special. Typical zombie apocalypse story and oh look there's a girl who turns out to be immune and could be the cure for the whole of humanity. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. It sounds horribly cliché and done to death on paper. But Naughty Dog turned it into a masterpiece through excellent character writing and fantastic acting performances.

I don't care what you've read and what you think about it, if you were a genuine fan of TLoU and in general of Naughty Dog's work, you owe it to yourself to give this game a chance and trust that those guys know what they're doing. If not, your choice and then I'm sorry for you, but don't come here and act like you know exactly what the game will be like. Because you simply don't. Though I suspect those not even willing to give the game a chance were just waiting for an excuse to start raging at it. There's no other way to explain such behaviour.

Usually I’d agree but in this case it’s not a story outline leak. It’s complete cut scene footage. Your point still stands but just illustrating this case is slightly more nuanced than your usual leaks.

 

[Ainu]

Usually I’d agree but in this case it’s not a story outline leak. It’s complete cut scene footage. Your point still stands but just illustrating this case is slightly more nuanced than your usual leaks.

Even so people are still looking at stuff without the full context, which can completely ruin any story or character development.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Even so people are still looking at stuff without the full context, which can completely ruin any story or character development.

An over the top show off falls off his bike and the people reminisce about the time when he went globetrotting and used his white privilege to bully a bunch of locals into sacrificing their own lives for his own personal gains. Then he goes a bit mad and kills some of his friends, but everyone is fine with it in the end. The last scene is just him driving about with a mate before he goes home.

Totally crap movie, I'll never watch Lawrence of Arabia again.

 

[Redlambs]

And ironically, it is you and a few more repeating the "agenda pushing" over and over again like bloody parrots. You mentioned parody? Well there you have it, couldn't agree more. The irony is overflowing in this thread!

You all are aware that "pushing agenda" isn't tied only to diversity and political stuff? Because your posts tell a different story. I keep mentioning the crappy story, you all keep mentioning the "agenda" word and what I meant by it. You couldn't make this up, Benny Hill stuff.

Was it really worth typing all that out?

Because you can try to run around in circles to get out of it (again irony is strong with you mentioning Benny Hill, then try to get yourself out of a sticky situation by running around like a dumbass) but it won't work. You won't play the game because of a leak and agenda pushing, YOUR words not anyone elses. So it's a simple question:

What agenda pushing do you mean?

I've not once claimed it's about racism, or sexuality or whatever else you want to go off about, again you've brought all that up. It's a simple question that you could easily answer and tell us what it IS about instead of acting all jittery about it.

After reading the spoilers, leaker actually saved me some money, cheers, I am skipping this, not going to be even close to the quality of the original. Plus all the agenda pushing in it...bloody hell.

 

[Volumiza]

Right, I’m really really going to try and finish the first one. I mean it. I’ve never meant something with such conviction since the last time I tried to complete it.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I don't know what people have read and I don't want to know, but reading a story outline and experiencing it for yourself are two completely different things. If someone would've read the story of The Last of Us to you before playing the game, at best you'd think it's nothing special. Typical zombie apocalypse story and oh look there's a girl who turns out to be immune and could be the cure for the whole of humanity. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. It sounds horribly cliché and done to death on paper. But Naughty Dog turned it into a masterpiece through excellent character writing and fantastic acting performances.

I don't care what you've read and what you think about it, if you were a genuine fan of TLoU and in general of Naughty Dog's work, you owe it to yourself to give this game a chance and trust that those guys know what they're doing. If not, your choice and then I'm sorry for you, but don't come here and act like you know exactly what the game will be like. Because you simply don't. Though I suspect those not even willing to give the game a chance were just waiting for an excuse to start raging at it. There's no other way to explain such behaviour.

What kind of logic is that? You owe it to yourself to pay money for something you don't like the sound of? If I buy a washing machine from Samsung do I owe it to myself to buy another one because the first was good? You don't owe anyone anything, you made a transaction with Naughty Dog and enjoyed a product they sold you which you reimbursed them for. The next step is deciding if what you know of their next product sounds like something you want to spend more of your money on. Owing has nothing to do with it. Being a genuine fan has nothing to do with spending upwards of £40 on consumer products.

There's a very, very simple explanation for such behaviour, they were looking forward to something enough that they were willing to spend £40 on it. They don't like what they've read, are venting their frustrations and are no longer will to spend their money on it. It's very simple, they aren't tied into any sort of relationship with Naughty Dog where they must give them a chance and buy anything they put out, they are consumers deciding on a consumer product.

No one owes Naughty Dog anything, making a good game isn't a free pass into people's wallets the next time you release something. Because you enjoyed something once doesn't mean you owe it to yourself to keep giving them money no matter how you feel about what they are releasing. They are £40 consumer products, they aren't free samples you can just try and people are free to decide if that £40 consumer product is worth it to them based on what they know of it.

 

[Ainu]

What kind of logic is that? You owe it to yourself to pay money for something you don't like the sound of? If I buy a washing machine from Samsung do I owe it to myself to buy another one because the first was good? You don't owe anyone anything, you made a transaction with Naughty Dog and enjoyed a product they sold you which you reimbursed them for. The next step is deciding if what you know of their next product sounds like something you want to spend more of your money on. Owing has nothing to do with it. Being a genuine fan has nothing to do with spending upwards of £40 on consumer products.

There's a very, very simple explanation for such behaviour, they were looking forward to something enough that they were willing to spend £40 on it. They don't like what they've read, are venting their frustrations and are no longer will to spend their money on it. It's very simple, they aren't tied into any sort of relationship with Naughty Dog where they must give them a chance and buy anything they put out, they are consumers deciding on a consumer product.

No one owes Naughty Dog anything, making a good game isn't a free pass into people's wallets the next time you release something. Because you enjoyed something once doesn't mean you owe it to yourself to keep giving them money no matter how you feel about what they are releasing. They are £40 consumer products, they aren't free samples you can just try and people are free to decide if that £40 consumer product is worth it to them based on what they know of it.

Yikes, there seems to be a lot of anger in this thread. I didn't once say anyone owes them anything nor did I say anyone has to buy the game. I literally said "if you were a genuine fan of TLoU and in general of Naughty Dog's work, you owe it to yourself to give this game a chance ". Giving it a chance might be waiting for reviews, waiting for a deep sale, just not writing it off prematurely.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Yikes, there seems to be a lot of anger in this thread. I didn't once say anyone owes them anything nor did I say anyone has to buy the game. I literally said "if you were a genuine fan of TLoU and in general of Naughty Dog's work, you owe it to yourself to give this game a chance ". Giving it a chance might be waiting for reviews, waiting for a deep sale, just not writing it off prematurely.

But people have already seen the full story and decided it's not for them. I'm not angry, I'm just saying that it's a consumer product and being a genuine fan has nothing to do with that. If you've seen enough to know you don't want to spend £40 on this then why wait for reviews which are essentially just a wing of advertising for game companies? These are expensive consumer products, it's not about you giving them chances, it's about them giving you something you're willing to spend money on.

 

[Ainu]

But people have already seen the full story and decided it's not for them. I'm not angry, I'm just saying that it's a consumer product and being a genuine fan has nothing to do with that. If you've seen enough to know you don't want to spend £40 on this then why wait for reviews which are essentially just a wing of advertising for game companies? These are expensive consumer products, it's not about you giving them chances, it's about them giving you something you're willing to spend money on.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter to me and my personal enjoyment of the game, it's just a mindset I can't quite comprehend. They've exposed themselves to parts of the game in less-than-ideal circumstances and base their entire judgement on that. I mean, if that's what people want to do, fair enough I guess.

 

[onemanarmy]

So people are getting angry with each other based on a leak of a video game nobody has played yet? Bloody hell, sometimes I wish we could go back to simpler times again.

 

[Volumiza]

So people are getting angry with each other based on a leak of a video game nobody has played yet? Bloody hell, sometimes I wish we could go back to simpler times again.

me too ...

None of this bullshit when I was a lad

 

[evil_geko]

Ultimately it doesn't really matter to me and my personal enjoyment of the game, it's just a mindset I can't quite comprehend. They've exposed themselves to parts of the game in less-than-ideal circumstances and base their entire judgement on that. I mean, if that's what people want to do, fair enough I guess.

It's not just some small parts here and there, big story parts are revealed, story in this series is big part why it's liked, not gameplay, which is the only thing you can't really judge without playing yourself.

Why would people "give them a chance" when they butchered lots of things they loved about the game? I don't understand that logic.

 

[onemanarmy]

It's not just some small parts here and there, big story parts are revealed, story in this series is big part why it's liked, not gameplay, which is the only thing you can't really judge without playing yourself.

Why would people "give them a chance" when they butchered lots of things they loved about the game? I don't understand that logic.

Why would you look at spoilers about a game you are looking forward too? Can't wrap my mind around that.

 

[evil_geko]

Why would you look at spoilers about a game you are looking forward too? Can't wrap my mind around that.

I wouldn't, but when I saw so much backlash I had to look at it. If the reactions were positive or even half positive, I would have ignored them. If it was good, I doubt it would be even leaked, person who leaked knew how bad it was and how much damage this would do to them.

So younger me would probably blindly buy this without looking at spoilers, but when you get burned so many times, I can't be bothered with bullshit anymore, spoiled or not.

 

[Volumiza]

Why would you look at spoilers about a game you are looking forward too? Can't wrap my mind around that.

And why would you allow cutscenes and story to stop you enjoying 10+ hours of potentially great gameplay?

 

[Redlambs]

Why would you look at spoilers about a game you are looking forward too? Can't wrap my mind around that.

He heard they were "pushing agendas" and wanted to join in and get outraged.

 

[onemanarmy]

and how much damage this would do to them.

That's just sad.

 

[evil_geko]

That's just sad.

It probably is, but who knows what was happening there, maybe he had good reasons, maybe he was just petty, we will never know.

 

[Bojan11]

And why would you allow cutscenes and story to stop you enjoying 10+ hours of potentially great gameplay?

The gameplay in the first one wasn’t very great. I don’t see much changing here. Reviewers will probably score it high for the story as normally they do with Naughty Dog games forgetting that they are video games firstly and not movies.

 

[Ainu]

The gameplay in the first one wasn’t very great. I don’t see much changing here. Reviewers will probably score it high for the story as normally they do with Naughty Dog games forgetting that they are video games firstly and not movies.

Not sure where that last part comes from, Naughty Dog games generally don't even have that many cutscenes. Large parts of the character building happens through dialogue while you're exploring.

 

[Volumiza]

The gameplay in the first one wasn’t very great. I don’t see much changing here. Reviewers will probably score it high for the story as normally they do with Naughty Dog games forgetting that they are video games firstly and not movies.

The gameplay wasn’t great I agree in some respects but it was a great game, I never actually finished it but I know it’s a great game. And as for the second part of that, have you played uncharted 4? If not, do it. Arguably the best video game ever made. Great gameplay, great graphics, great story and acting. Naughty dog are the daddy’s!

 

[Bojan11]

The gameplay wasn’t great I agree in some respects but it was a great game, I never actually finished it but I know it’s a great game. And as for the second part of that, have you played uncharted 4? If not, do it. Arguably the best video game ever made. Great gameplay, great graphics, great story and acting. Naughty dog are the daddy’s!

I finished uncharted 4 and no it wasn’t the greatest game ever.

But try again.

 

[Art Vandelay]

The gameplay wasn’t great I agree in some respects but it was a great game, I never actually finished it but I know it’s a great game. And as for the second part of that, have you played uncharted 4? If not, do it. Arguably the best video game ever made. Great gameplay, great graphics, great story and acting. Naughty dog are the daddy’s!

Not having a go at you, I'm just curious, how do you work out it's a great game if you've tried several times to play through it and not really been arsed? Maybe I've picked you up wrong.

I personally wouldn't call anything I don't like great regadless of review scores, who made it or what other people thought of it. But I've seen other people do a thing where they don't like a game but still call it great based on other people thinking it is or review scores. It's just something I find to be a strange quirk with gaming, I don't notice it quite as much with films.

 

[Volumiza]

Not having a go at you, I'm just curious, how do you work out it's a great game if you've tried several times to play through it and not really been arsed? Maybe I've picked you up wrong.

I personally wouldn't call anything I don't like great regadless of review scores, who made it or what other people thought of it. But I've seen other people do a thing where they don't like a game but still call it great based on other people thinking it is or review scores. It's just something I find to be a strange quirk with gaming, I don't notice it quite as much with films.

I enjoyed it and have got very close to the end 2 or 3 times now but circumstance and life sometimes deflect our course. I’m pretty sure my obsession with Skyrim has dealt a blow to my chances of completing more than one game. While I played it I loved the story and most of the gameplay. I wasn’t 100% behind combat gamepley but it was still very good.

For instance, I haven’t completed any gta since vice city or RDR2. I haven’t completed Resi 7 VR. I didn’t complete FF7 or any assassins creed since 2. That doesn’t mean they’re not great games just that at the point in time they were out I was in a stage of life where gaming couldn’t take as much time as necessary to complete games.

There are also a few great games that I can recognise as being great even though I may be not too keen or they may not be my style of game, or I haven’t finished them purely on the grounds that although I myself don’t get 100% hooked I can understand why others do find them great.

 

[LonelyFire]

Even so people are still looking at stuff without the full context, which can completely ruin any story or character development.

Again, I’d usually agree, but in this case it’s 90 mins worth of cut scenes. While there are still questions, much of it is clear. Obviously, I don’t want to go more specific on the thread.

 

[Bobski]

I have been spoiled on the broad outlines of the story, and my immediate reaction was not positive. However Naughty Dog have a history of writing strong characters and narratives, so they deserve some faith that they can make this work.

The problem for many of us who adored the original is the emotional attachment to the characters of Joel and Ellie, the ending was perfect, ambiguous , complemented beautifully by Left Behind, it was always going to be hard to write a sequel, come subversion of expectations was to be expected.

 

[Freak]

State of play video is out. Looks awesome, can’t wait to play this. There’s very little of Joel though which would be shame because the Joel/Ellie dynamic and chemistry was a big success in the first game.

 

[Ainu]

It looks stupendous, but my god is this ultra-violent. Seeing Ellie being so vengeful and performing these acts of horrific violence feels sickening. I'm already dreading the event that drives her to become this person. One thing I really do hope is that there are enough moments of peace and quiet to break up the action. It's something they did so well with The Last of Us. We haven't really seen that from this game but it's not something that translates well to trailers and short snippets of gameplay, so that doesn't necessarily say much. I'm definitely getting this day-one anyway, avoiding spoilers post-release will be hell.

 

[harshad]

It does look great

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Not seen the leaks but my word the internet seems to have taken one big dump on Naughty Dog on this. Incredible how a studio can so quickly go from being beloved to being treated like a joke.

 

[Ainu]

Not seen the leaks but my word the internet seems to have taken one big dump on Naughty Dog on this. Incredible how a studio can so quickly go from being beloved to being treated like a joke.

I think part of that has to do with some former employees speaking out about the crunch culture at Naughty Dog. Same as with CD Projekt Red and Rockstar before them. At least that part of the criticism is warrented, it's clearly still a huge problem within the gaming industry and those are some very high profile examples of it. As someone working in software and who is fairly religious in protecting my own work-life balance, I sincerely hope these studios work hard to eliminate it. It's a tough one, I love what they do and I can't stop myself from consuming their products, but I also don't want to support crunch culture. So I guess people giving them plenty of grief about it on social media is completely fair for me. Maybe it'll push them to look at the issue in earnest.

The other part of it, well I'm not interested. I'll judge the game after I've played it.