[horsechoker]

I think some of our fans are in a toxic relationship with Pogba. If it were a relationship you would think the he was cheating on you.

I think him leaving might actually be good for both parties because he won't be what people want him to be. He has trouble staying consistent which in other teams this might be OK due to being surrounded by other good players.

If he leaves, he wouldn't be replaced by Pogba 2.0 but a different type of player which people would find fault with.

Despite almost everyone he works with having nothing but good things to say, some fans have this conspiracy going on in their heads. They can never believe that Pogba just wants to play and win things for United. Remember we weren't even in the champions league when he joined, he could have stayed at Juventus and would have had a better chance of winning the champions league.

I hope he stays into his 30s but if he leaves it might be good for the mental health of some fans. I don't think any other big fan base is as insecure about players as United fans are.

 

[RedDevil@84]

He really gets a rough deal around these parts. Bruno on the other hand can spend an entire match passing it to our opponents and nobody seems to care.

Different players, different yardsticks.

Pogba is a WC winner. He has been carrying the world class tag for 5-6 years or so.

 

[Strelok]

I've always thought Pogba's defensive contribution is underrated. He actually has better defensive stats than the prime Yaya Toure, who was arguably one of the best box-to-box in the decade. We had the second best defensive records in the league in 16/17 and 17/18, conceding only 29 and 28 goals respectively with him in a double pivot. I see no problem playing him there with an extra attacking midfielder ahead of him.

That's interesting but if my memory server me right I don't remember Toure to defend much either. However imo Toure is quite different with Pogba, he's incredibly agile and fast for a guy of his size. His style was more direct and could cause havoc when he run through the middle with the ball. And his long shot were just wow. I didn't watch him much but that's what I can recall.

For the defensive records, well we played under Jose that season. And it's not true that Pogba played in a double pivot all the time. There's some period he was deployed as a left no 8 and did pretty well there.

Yes Pogba has lost a few when pressed recently and that'll continue to happen if the team still relies on his individual quality in offensive transition. We lack a clear plan facing a press and the only way out for now is to pass to Pogba, cross our fingers and hope he can bring the ball out safely (sometimes it's Matic). Most of the time he does, but it's unavoidable that he gets caught sometimes when he attempts frequently.

No mate, he lost it because he had no awareness of what was around him. Do you remember the first goal Sou scored recently? Or because he overcomplicated things. Like he could pass but decided to dwell on the ball for too long thinking he could use his strength to shield it. I could only find this but if we make a compilation of how many times he lost the ball because of the two above reason it'd be a quite long one imo.

 

[hmchan]

That's interesting but if my memory server me right I don't remember Toure to defend much either. However imo Toure is quite different with Pogba, he's incredibly agile and fast for a guy of his size. His style was more direct and could cause havoc when he run through the middle with the ball. And his long shot were just wow. I didn't watch him much but that's what I can recall.

For the defensive records, well we played under Jose that season. And it's not true that Pogba played in a double pivot all the time. There's some period he was deployed as a left no 8 and did pretty well there.


No mate, he lost it because he had no awareness of what was around him. Do you remember the first goal Sou scored recently? Or because he overcomplicated things. Like he could pass but decided to dwell on the ball for too long thinking he could use his strength to shield it. I could only find this but if we make a compilation of how many times he lost the ball because of the two above reason it'd be a quite long one imo.

Yes Yaya Toure's defensive work rate isn't any better, but no one would say he can't play as a box-to-box. On the contrary, he is arguably one of the best in the decade. So I don't see why Pogba can't play in a similar 4-2-3-1 system with an extra attacking midfielder ahead of him. We defended well in 16/17 and 17/18 and things are only going to be better if we replace Lingard with Bruno in the offensive role.

The clip you attach is irrelevant to your point. It's definitely a poor game of his and we didn't have Bruno back then. Pogba was the only creative player in that 3-5-2 system, hence the fancy flicks and risky passes. If you're referring to the recent Sotton game, you can see he's heavily pressed and few were offering him support. He only made one or two touches most of the time but people still accused him for dwelling too long just because of the one mistake. I criticized him in #8019 for that but I don't think it's a general situation.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

#1
I just realize, Pogba's players performance thread has the longest pages.

The guy played as low as 18 games. Says a lot really.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes Yaya Toure's defensive work rate isn't any better, but no one would say he can't play as a box-to-box. On the contrary, he is arguably one of the best in the decade. So I don't see why Pogba can't play in a similar 4-2-3-1 system with an extra attacking midfielder ahead of him. We defended well in 16/17 and 17/18 and things are only going to be better if we replace Lingard with Bruno in the offensive role.

The clip you attach is irrelevant to your point. It's definitely a poor game of his and we didn't have Bruno back then. Pogba was the only creative player in that 3-5-2 system, hence the fancy flicks and risky passes. If you're referring to the recent Sotton game, you can see he's heavily pressed and few were offering him support. He only made one or two touches most of the time but people still accused him for dwelling too long just because of the one mistake. I criticized him in #8019 for that but I don't think it's a general situation.

Because Touré and Pogba aren't the same players, they haven't been developed the same way. Touré chose to not defend but he was developed as a defensive minded player and was excellent in that role for Monaco, he then replaced Edmilson at Barcelona and was also excellent. It's only with City that he was genuinely moved into a more attacking role because he was also a very good technician with a great shot. If Pogba had a different body he wouldn't be compared to the likes of Yaya Touré but Deco or Riquelme.

 

[hmchan]

Because Touré and Pogba aren't the same players, they haven't been developed the same way. Touré chose to not defend but he was developed as a defensive minded player and was excellent in that role for Monaco, he then replaced Edmilson at Barcelona and was also excellent. It's only with City that he was genuinely moved into a more attacking role because he was also a very good technician with a great shot. If Pogba had a different body he wouldn't be compared to the likes of Yaya Touré but Deco or Riquelme.

The Monaco and Barca parts are irrelevant. What I mean is, if Yaya Toure can play in a 4-2-3-1 at City where he doesn't have to defend too much, why can't we set up in a similar way to maximize Pogba's offensive output and minimize his defensive duty?

 

[Posh Red]

The Monaco and Barca parts are irrelevant. What I mean is, if Yaya Toure can play in a 4-2-3-1 at City where he doesn't have to defend too much, why can't we set up in a similar way to maximize Pogba's offensive output and minimize his defensive duty?

Personally I would say we need a more dynamic player next to him than Matic to compensate for his deficiencies

 

[JPRouve]

The Monaco and Barca parts are irrelevant. What I mean is, if Yaya Toure can play in a 4-2-3-1 at City where he doesn't have to defend too much, why can't we set up in a similar way to maximize Pogba's offensive output and minimize his defensive duty?

I see. I think that it's what we are trying to do but it relies on Matic doing his job defensively which he has done during the first games of the restart, it also relies on Fernandes doing his job as the primary creative player and it relies on Pogba supporting Fernandes and Matic properly which he did for a while but struggled during the lst 10 days. If any of these players has a bad game it impacts the others which means that the way we setup requires better backups because the three midfielders are totally co-dependent, if they are out of form they need to be replaced, especially since they all have to cover a fair amount of ground.

And regarding Yaya Touré if I remember correctly every time Fernandinho had a bad game their midfield became hopeless.

 

[Cassidy]

I see. I think that it's what we are trying to do but it relies on Matic doing his job defensively which he has done during the first games of the restart, it also relies on Fernandes doing his job as the primary creative player and it relies on Pogba supporting Fernandes and Matic properly which he did for a while but struggled during the lst 10 days. If any of these players has a bad game it impacts the others which means that the way we setup requires better backups because the three midfielders are totally co-dependent, if they are out of form they need to be replaced, especially since they all have to cover a fair amount of ground.

And regarding Yaya Touré if I remember correctly every time Fernandinho had a bad game their midfield became hopeless.

I believe this is correct

 

[hmchan]

I see. I think that it's what we are trying to do but it relies on Matic doing his job defensively which he has done during the first games of the restart, it also relies on Fernandes doing his job as the primary creative player and it relies on Pogba supporting Fernandes and Matic properly which he did for a while but struggled during the lst 10 days. If any of these players has a bad game it impacts the others which means that the way we setup requires better backups because the three midfielders are totally co-dependent, if they are out of form they need to be replaced, especially since they all have to cover a fair amount of ground.

And regarding Yaya Touré if I remember correctly every time Fernandinho had a bad game their midfield became hopeless.

Yes. If we want to be a team regularly in the top 4 or even chasing for the title, we need everyone in our team to do their job. We need the CAM to deliver week in week out, we need the CDM to protect the defence, we need the LB to be solid defensively. Over the past few years, Pogba has been so busy doing the job for his mediocre teammates in different positions. Now we have Bruno to share his burden, I expect him to be more consistent and we play a system that maximize his ability.

 

[Infra-red]

Personally I would say we need a more dynamic player next to him than Matic to compensate for his deficiencies

This is right. The Matic, Pogba, Fernandes midfield three is obviously very gifted on the ball, but is also somewhat lacking in energy. Tiredness is obviously a factor at the moment, but we just look so lethargic when those three play against a side with an organised press.

In my view, a long-term Matic replacement should be second only to a RW on our shopping list. In some games we might also have to consider a 4-diamond-2 or a 3-4-2-1 system, to get Fred/McTominay into the midfield to raise the energy levels a little.

 

[Stretender]

I also don't understand what Pogba fanboys see that others don't. Perhaps it's a younger segment of United fans, for whom Pogba is the first big transfer they have followed, so they have no lived comparison to judge by.

Older Manchester United fans can compare with the likes of Robson, Ince, Keane, Veron, Scholes, Carrick, and from other clubs like Lampard, Gerrard, Zidane, Matthaus, Rijkaard, Guardiola, Pirlo, Vierra and from before this era like Laudraup, Charlton, Cruyff. Even in this current era, we have KDB, Kroos, Modric and the Silva's. On the evidence of his Manchester United career so far, Pogba isn't in this company. And yet that is how his fanboys project him. Even after a poor performance, posts are always prefaced with "he's a world class talent BUT ..." ; it's as though they need to restate this sycophancy to reassure their own judgement.

Part of the problem is he is one of the chief architects of the social media generation, instinctively building a massive digital fanbase who only see short clips of 'Hollywood' type football, the type this forum used to ridicule Steven Gerrard for. He knows these short vignettes will be edited and shared, so ensures he completes enough to make a monthly reel. He takes too many touches because he's trying to create the perfect circumstance for his next Hollywood moment and feels insulted that opponents wont allow him time to show off his genius. Those clips generate huge admiration for him which feeds his ego; it's a self perpetuating cycle.

Because he thrives in creating only 'moments of genius', perhaps he simply doesn't know how to deliver a full game of consistent worth. He is mentally weak, drifting in and out of games, normally because he is sulking after his latest failed Hollywood attempt. He is a strong and athletic man, but often has to use those gifts to get himself out of self created trouble. He should know this and alter his game accordingly. It's now quite predictable and is why top level midfielders find it easy to nullify his threat.

I think his footballing instincts are world class, but his actual footballing intelligence is very average. When a moment of Hollywood comes off, it looks majestic on his highlights reel, but he often fails and the team suffers greatly as a result. Moments of cowardice evidenced from the other night doesn't help either.

You have summed up Pogba perfectly. Personally he will not do anything special here other than perform in one game and go missing for the next 9 games. Thats not what you want from your key player. People who defend Pogba's football should look at how someone like De Bruyne plays. That is what you call a world class footballer. The best thing that can happen at United is for Pogba to be sold, use that money to buy quality midfielders. We hear people say let's buy player x to play with Pogba or push Pogba further up the pitch or in the middle etc. That to me just means he doesn't know his role in a team, which at his age is worrying. It would better for his career to move and try a different team because it will never work for him here.

 

[Strelok]

Yes Yaya Toure's defensive work rate isn't any better, but no one would say he can't play as a box-to-box. On the contrary, he is arguably one of the best in the decade. So I don't see why Pogba can't play in a similar 4-2-3-1 system with an extra attacking midfielder ahead of him. We defended well in 16/17 and 17/18 and things are only going to be better if we replace Lingard with Bruno in the offensive role.

The clip you attach is irrelevant to your point. It's definitely a poor game of his and we didn't have Bruno back then. Pogba was the only creative player in that 3-5-2 system, hence the fancy flicks and risky passes. If you're referring to the recent Sotton game, you can see he's heavily pressed and few were offering him support. He only made one or two touches most of the time but people still accused him for dwelling too long just because of the one mistake. I criticized him in #8019 for that but I don't think it's a general situation.

My point is he lost the ball quite often not because he was well pressed as you said. In that clip you would see some of those I think. I mention the last Sou match and their first goal as Pogba lost the ball because he had no awareness of what was around him. In your clip you can see that he lost the ball like 5 times and only 1 was because he was well pressed, 3 times because he had no idea there's someone coming from his blind side, another one because of a bad touch.

Btw I am of the same opinion with @JPRouve. As I said after the Sou match (you can find my post in this thread), we need to find a much better DM if we want to use both Pogba and Bruno in this current system. Someone who can handle the pressing alone then move the ball forward to Pogba and Bruno.

However as @JPRouve has pointed out by the example with Toure and Fernandinho this system depends greatly on the DM. And imo such DM is really hard to find these days. Anyway so far it's probably the best way to use him imo.

 

[BringNaniBack]

May as well play Fred or Mctomminay over him at the moment. They are both better than him defensively and he doesn't create anything going forward very often nowadays. Doesn't score either. At least Fred and Mctomminay have some fight and energy about them.
I'm not a Pogba hater, he's more enjoyable to watch that Fred/Mctom, but right now, in a must not lose game, I think they are better options.

 

[Hugh Jass]

May as well play Fred or Mctomminay over him at the moment. They are both better than him defensively and he doesn't create anything going forward very often nowadays. Doesn't score either. At least Fred and Mctomminay have some fight and energy about them.
I'm not a Pogba hater, he's more enjoyable to watch that Fred/Mctom, but right now, in a must not lose game, I think they are better options.

Agreed.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

May as well play Fred or Mctomminay over him at the moment. They are both better than him defensively and he doesn't create anything going forward very often nowadays. Doesn't score either. At least Fred and Mctomminay have some fight and energy about them.
I'm not a Pogba hater, he's more enjoyable to watch that Fred/Mctom, but right now, in a must not lose game, I think they are better options.

I would agree if Mctominay showed top form. Sadly he hasn't looked back to his best recently.

 

[mu4c_20le]

May as well play Fred or Mctomminay over him at the moment. They are both better than him defensively and he doesn't create anything going forward very often nowadays. Doesn't score either. At least Fred and Mctomminay have some fight and energy about them.
I'm not a Pogba hater, he's more enjoyable to watch that Fred/Mctom, but right now, in a must not lose game, I think they are better options.

We lost control of the Southampton game when he went off, and subsequently conceded. People keep going on and on about Fred and Mct's pre-lockdown form, but they need a run of games to get back to that form and we can't afford that. Pogba helps us keep possession even when he isn't playing well, he isnt just enjoyable to look at.

 

[Carl]

I like Pogba, but it speaks volumes we always seem to need to buy players to get the best out of him. For a World class midfielder, he doesn't seem like he's actually that good in midfield. He seems to not only need someone that will do the dirty work defensively, but he also needs someone else to be the primary creator.

I've said this before, but drop Pogba into an already functioning world class team and he will flourish. We aren't that though, and he just doesn't really fit. Unless we kind find an incredible DM this Summer (which everyone needs) then i think we should move him on and use the money elsewhere.

McT, Fred, Bruno > Matic, Pogba, Bruno

Even though Matic and Pogba are better football players than Fred and McSauce, I think its a more balanced midfield and plays with the kind of tempo that we're actually looking for. We absolutely would need to bring in some cover for Bruno if we was to do that though.

Alternatively, we could just change shape to accommodate him. Play a diamond of McSauce, Fred, Pogba and Bruno. That does mean one of Rashford, Martial or Greenwood would have to miss out though.

 

[El Jefe]

Because Touré and Pogba aren't the same players, they haven't been developed the same way. Touré chose to not defend but he was developed as a defensive minded player and was excellent in that role for Monaco, he then replaced Edmilson at Barcelona and was also excellent. It's only with City that he was genuinely moved into a more attacking role because he was also a very good technician with a great shot. If Pogba had a different body he wouldn't be compared to the likes of Yaya Touré but Deco or Riquelme.

Not sure I agree tbh. I'm not sure there are many players who you'd say their game is more similar to Yaya than Pogba. There are differences in their games of course but they are definitely the same type of player. The only difference is Yaya played to his full ability while Pogba has yet to do so.

I actually feel you have it the other way with Yaya. It's because of his physical qualities he was deployed in defensive positions. At Barcelona you could tell from some of his goals and dribbles that he had way more to his game than he was able to show. All City did was put him where he should've been all along.

 

[Stretender]

I like Pogba, but it speaks volumes we always seem to need to buy players to get the best out of him. For a World class midfielder, he doesn't seem like he's actually that good in midfield. He seems to not only need someone that will do the dirty work defensively, but he also needs someone else to be the primary creator.

I've said this before, but drop Pogba into an already functioning world class team and he will flourish. We aren't that though, and he just doesn't really fit. Unless we kind find an incredible DM this Summer (which everyone needs) then i think we should move him on and use the money elsewhere.

McT, Fred, Bruno > Matic, Pogba, Bruno

Even though Matic and Pogba are better football players than Fred and McSauce, I think its a more balanced midfield and plays with the kind of tempo that we're actually looking for. We absolutely would need to bring in some cover for Bruno if we was to do that though.

Alternatively, we could just change shape to accommodate him. Play a diamond of McSauce, Fred, Pogba and Bruno. That does mean one of Rashford, Martial or Greenwood would have to miss out though.

Very correct. The Pogba experiment has failed at United and we should just cash in and invest that money in a decent midfielder. I would argue that Ole made the mistake of starting Pogba after lockdown. He should have been coming from the bench, he should have continued with the midfield that got us the unbeaten run before lockdown. I liked the energy that Fred brought to the midfield. What happened to Liverpool when they sold Coutinho. Not sure if Alisson was a direct result of that but they invested that money wisely to buy van Dyke and the rest is history. I would sell Pogba and use that money for a top CDM. You would be surprised how our fortunes could be transformed.

 

[JPRouve]

Not sure I agree tbh. I'm not sure there are many players who you'd say their game is more similar to Yaya than Pogba. There are differences in their games of course but they are definitely the same type of player. The only difference is Yaya played to his full ability while Pogba has yet to do so.

I actually feel you have it the other way with Yaya. It's because of his physical qualities he was deployed in defensive positions. At Barcelona you could tell from some of his goals and dribbles that he had way more to his game than he was able to show. All City did was put him where he should've been all along.

My point is that Yaya Touré was developed as a defensive player, he is very good at it when he wants to while Pogba has been developed as an attacking midfielder and has never been used as an actual defensive midfielder, that's factual. When you compare Yaya Touré and Pogba defensively and assume that Pogba could do every things that Touré could you are not basing that opinion on facts or history.

My point is that only City's Touré is similar to Pogba and even then it's only in certain roles that he played for them. Touré and Pogba aren't the same players, Touré has more to his game than Pogba, he has performed at a high level in a much more defensive role.

 

[SATA]

Is he actually carrying extra weight or has he bulked up? Anyone notice he looks a lot heavier recently after the campaign restarted. I would love to see him run with the ball more from midfield or attacking positions like he did at Spurs to win the penalty but he seldom does it now

 

[U99ted]

Very correct. The Pogba experiment has failed at United and we should just cash in and invest that money in a decent midfielder. I would argue that Ole made the mistake of starting Pogba after lockdown. He should have been coming from the bench, he should have continued with the midfield that got us the unbeaten run before lockdown. I liked the energy that Fred brought to the midfield. What happened to Liverpool when they sold Coutinho. Not sure if Alisson was a direct result of that but they invested that money wisely to buy van Dyke and the rest is history. I would sell Pogba and use that money for a top CDM. You would be surprised how our fortunes could be transformed.

Pogba didn't start our first game after lockdown, and we were going to lose before Pogba came on and won a penalty.

 

[JPRouve]

I like Pogba, but it speaks volumes we always seem to need to buy players to get the best out of him. For a World class midfielder, he doesn't seem like he's actually that good in midfield. He seems to not only need someone that will do the dirty work defensively, but he also needs someone else to be the primary creator.

I've said this before, but drop Pogba into an already functioning world class team and he will flourish. We aren't that though, and he just doesn't really fit. Unless we kind find an incredible DM this Summer (which everyone needs) then i think we should move him on and use the money elsewhere.

McT, Fred, Bruno > Matic, Pogba, Bruno

Even though Matic and Pogba are better football players than Fred and McSauce, I think its a more balanced midfield and plays with the kind of tempo that we're actually looking for. We absolutely would need to bring in some cover for Bruno if we was to do that though.

Alternatively, we could just change shape to accommodate him. Play a diamond of McSauce, Fred, Pogba and Bruno. That does mean one of Rashford, Martial or Greenwood would have to miss out though.

That's fallacy. We need to buy players to be a better team, it has nothing to do with Pogba. It's actually problematic that every time that we try to fix a problem in midfield the narrative turns to Pogba. Our goal is to be a great team and we haven't had great players. If Pogba wasn't there it would be the same, we would need to buy player to get the best out of everyone, we would need to create balance add creators and destroyers.

And Pogba isn't a defensive midfielder, so if you want a balanced team you will need a defensive midfielder, similarly to Modric and Kroos being better with Casemira because neither are defensive minded players. The weird thing here is that it seems that when Pogba is involved people don't think logically,if the manager decides to play in 4231, the team will require a attacking midfielder that is going to be the primary creator, if you want Pogba to be the primary creator then you will need a box to box. It's a simple matter of balance in a Football team.

 

[RUCK4444]

I would agree if Mctominay showed top form. Sadly he hasn't looked back to his best recently.

Yes, posted a couple of times recently that McTominay has looked awful in the little we’ve seen from him since the restart.

Without doubt I would play Fred ahead of Scott at the moment. Hell if he was guaranteed to play this game like he did before lockdown then he would be the first name on the team sheet for me because we need energy more than anything right now.

 

[RUCK4444]

Very correct. The Pogba experiment has failed at United and we should just cash in and invest that money in a decent midfielder. I would argue that Ole made the mistake of starting Pogba after lockdown. He should have been coming from the bench, he should have continued with the midfield that got us the unbeaten run before lockdown. I liked the energy that Fred brought to the midfield. What happened to Liverpool when they sold Coutinho. Not sure if Alisson was a direct result of that but they invested that money wisely to buy van Dyke and the rest is history. I would sell Pogba and use that money for a top CDM. You would be surprised how our fortunes could be transformed.

Pogba, like it or not, is still our most gifted player. He will prove you and others wrong, either at United or somewhere like Madrid, I hope it’s the former.

He was integral at Juve and for the France team that won the World Cup.

He’s the most decorated player in our squad, the most talented and consistently has the best numbers in the squad prior to Bruno’s arrival.

Pick a player who does none of the above to badmouth.

 

[Strelok]

Pogba, like it or not, is still our most gifted player. He will prove you and others wrong, either at United or somewhere like Madrid, I hope it’s the former.

He was integral at Juve and for the France team that won the World Cup.

He’s the most decorated player in our squad, the most talented and consistently has the best numbers in the squad prior to Bruno’s arrival.

Pick a player who does none of the above to badmouth.

At Juve he had Pirlo and prime Vidal. Kante and Matuidi at French national team.

Anyway, let's hope he'd put some good performance tomorrow. We badly need one now.

 

[Stretender]

Pogba, like it or not, is still our most gifted player. He will prove you and others wrong, either at United or somewhere like Madrid, I hope it’s the former.

He was integral at Juve and for the France team that won the World Cup.

He’s the most decorated player in our squad, the most talented and consistently has the best numbers in the squad prior to Bruno’s arrival.

Pick a player who does none of the above to badmouth.

No one doubts his talent, but I would argue he hasn't got the mental strength to be the main man at Manchester United and handle the pressure of his price tag. No point arguing this because his record here speaks for itself, he hasn't set the world on fire. He is not consistent for a key player, something Kevin De Bruyne does week in week out , Pogba does it once in 10 games. People have mentioned here , the argument that he needs to play with better players just shows that he is not a leader but a supporting act at best. Juve with Pirlo and their fantastic defenders, France with Kante , Mbappe and Griezmann meant Pogba was not the one carrying the team. He can't handle the pressure of being the main man simple. Just look at Bruno, less talented but likes the pressure and the responsibility. I would even use Michael Carrick as an example, less talented than Pogba but very intelligent and had big balls to dictate play for Manchester United in title winning campaigns. Pogba is a failed project here and if he stays he risks finishing his career on a whimper. A change of environment would help him as well as enable United to go and sign a player who is suited to how United want to play.

 

[Hammondo]

That's interesting but if my memory server me right I don't remember Toure to defend much either. However imo Toure is quite different with Pogba, he's incredibly agile and fast for a guy of his size. His style was more direct and could cause havoc when he run through the middle with the ball. And his long shot were just wow. I didn't watch him much but that's what I can recall.

For the defensive records, well we played under Jose that season. And it's not true that Pogba played in a double pivot all the time. There's some period he was deployed as a left no 8 and did pretty well there.


No mate, he lost it because he had no awareness of what was around him. Do you remember the first goal Sou scored recently? Or because he overcomplicated things. Like he could pass but decided to dwell on the ball for too long thinking he could use his strength to shield it. I could only find this but if we make a compilation of how many times he lost the ball because of the two above reason it'd be a quite long one imo.

Hes really bad when pressed, and since the break we have been lucky that teams gave him so much space. As soon as they started pressing him he played badly every game.

 

[RUCK4444]

No one doubts his talent, but I would argue he hasn't got the mental strength to be the main man at Manchester United and handle the pressure of his price tag. No point arguing this because his record here speaks for itself, he hasn't set the world on fire. He is not consistent for a key player, something Kevin De Bruyne does week in week out , Pogba does it once in 10 games. People have mentioned here , the argument that he needs to play with better players just shows that he is not a leader but a supporting act at best. Juve with Pirlo and their fantastic defenders, France with Kante , Mbappe and Griezmann meant Pogba was not the one carrying the team. He can't handle the pressure of being the main man simple. Just look at Bruno, less talented but likes the pressure and the responsibility. I would even use Michael Carrick as an example, less talented than Pogba but very intelligent and had big balls to dictate play for Manchester United in title winning campaigns. Pogba is a failed project here and if he stays he risks finishing his career on a whimper. A change of environment would help him as well as enable United to go and sign a player who is suited to how United want to play.

I would argue, and I’m sure he would also, that he has never once asked to be the ‘main man’ at United.

It’s fans who have bestowed that burden on his shoulders. He didn’t choose his price tag.

To be a World Cup winner you need mental strength, especially when your the leader of that team in the dressing room, which Pogba was.

 

[RUCK4444]

At Juve he had Pirlo and prime Vidal. Kante and Matuidi at French national team.

Anyway, let's hope he'd put some good performance tomorrow. We badly need one now.

That’s exactly my point. When he is playing in a functioning side with top quality around him he is an incredible player, unique in some ways.

He won’t drag this team over the finishing line like a Bryan Robson, that’s not him.

People need to realise the limit to his leadership but conversely the unique ability he can bring to the side when we have other top quality around him, and in form.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I think there is a decent player there. But like other posters i think he lacks drive. And secondly, even if he had drive or hunger for every game, he is not as good as reputed to be.

If he stays, i think we will still be having the same argument in two years time with regards to him.

 

[Jibbs]

There is nothing to debate here about his usefulness. His fanboys are simply too blinded by their love for him to realise no matter what United management can do, they can not change the nature of a person. He is careless and temperamental by nature. It should be obvious to anyone who follows United by now. Lapse in concentration is one thing but it happening over number of years shows a pattern and nature of a person. United should get rid of this guy asap if we are to become serious challengers of EPL trophy once again.

 

[hmchan]

That's fallacy. We need to buy players to be a better team, it has nothing to do with Pogba. It's actually problematic that every time that we try to fix a problem in midfield the narrative turns to Pogba. Our goal is to be a great team and we haven't had great players. If Pogba wasn't there it would be the same, we would need to buy player to get the best out of everyone, we would need to create balance add creators and destroyers.

And Pogba isn't a defensive midfielder, so if you want a balanced team you will need a defensive midfielder, similarly to Modric and Kroos being better with Casemira because neither are defensive minded players. The weird thing here is that it seems that when Pogba is involved people don't think logically,if the manager decides to play in 4231, the team will require a attacking midfielder that is going to be the primary creator, if you want Pogba to be the primary creator then you will need a box to box. It's a simple matter of balance in a Football team.

Spot on. You won't say we need Bruno just to get the best out of Martial, you won't say we need Maguire just to get the best out of Lindelof.

 

[JPRouve]

Spot on. You won't say we need Bruno just to get the best out of Martial, you won't say we need Maguire just to get the best out of Lindelof.

People do say it for Maguire and it's just wrong, we simply need to improve the team. In the case of midfield, Matic and Pogba had Lingard as their attacking midfielder someone that created nothing, scored rarely, wasn't a game manager/organizer. With Lingard the attacking midfield area was a football desert. Mourinho fixed that issue by using a 433 with Pogba, Herrera and Matic but Ole seems to favour a 4231 which meant that for Ole we needed someone like Fernandes, then you have the small issue that Matic was genuinely bad for almost 18 months and we didn't and still don't have an alternative for his role. So even if Pogba didn't exist we would still need someone instead of Lingard and an alternative to Matic.

 

[Red Devil 26]

Anyone else wish he would run with the ball more through the middle of the park? Feel like that's an area of his game he should be encouraged to take more risks with. He's a very good dribbler. Just not so great when he takes too many touches receiving the ball deep, particularly with his back to goal.

Hope we see more of him playing higher up the pitch, with both him and Bruno as 8's. The space between him and Bruno is too large in our current setup. Think it would help considerably when we're getting pressed high up the pitch too.

 

[Bebestation]

I couldn't care less about Pogba's form.

For all the good Ole's done - there is absolutely no reason to play Pogba so deep in a 4231 than a 433.

In fact Bruno Fernandes drops deep to defend so much that both should be playing together in partnerships rather than Matic needing a partner next to him covering the deeper areas.

Why exactly cant we play Pogba and Bruno Fernandes in a 433 where our creators take in turn to create from deep, get forward, create chances in the opposition half or take long shots?

Bruno
Matic- Pogba
​

Is worse than

Bruno - Pogba
Matic
​

In a 4231 Pogba gets left isolated in a vital area if Bruno Fernandes is positioned far away from midfield as Matic concentrates to drop down the pitch to cover the central defence.

In a 433 We will have two CM/CAM if done right (much like Silva & De Bryune protected by Fernandinho. Add to the fact that Martial is a deep dropping centre forward/False 9 that has the ability to hold on to the ball and create chances like he did for Greenwood vs west ham - it will benefit others as well.

It was Pogba as a CM/CAM last season where we got some real good performances.

 

[Hammondo]

That’s exactly my point. When he is playing in a functioning side with top quality around him he is an incredible player, unique in some ways.

He won’t drag this team over the finishing line like a Bryan Robson, that’s not him.

People need to realise the limit to his leadership but conversely the unique ability he can bring to the side when we have other top quality around him, and in form.

You mean when hes in a team thats far far better than everyone other team in the competition, he does well? Well god damn they should buy Lingard because even he can do well then.

 

[M16Red]

We lost control of the Southampton game when he went off, and subsequently conceded. People keep going on and on about Fred and Mct's pre-lockdown form, but they need a run of games to get back to that form and we can't afford that. Pogba helps us keep possession even when he isn't playing well, he isnt just enjoyable to look at.

While I don't agree about Pogba and possession, I agree with the up and running comment on regards to Fred and Mctom.

It just goes to show though just how far Fred and Mctom have come or how far Pogba has fallen that people are debating this change for our most important Premier League game of the season