Last I heard is he's doing the Dakar.
guy gave up on football.Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel
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guy gave up on football.Yeah... it's really not. Molde never won the league before.
You are only judged on trophies if you have a team reasonably expected to deliver trophies. Looking at Leipzig and Hoffenheim and ruling him off as a top manager purely because of silverware is quite lazy. If we applied such a binary approach we can applaud Juande Ramos as being a top manager, respected more for his achievements by neutrals than Poch. In reality though, we know Poch and Nagalsmann are inevitably adding silverware to their career sooner or later.
Why are you pointing to man management, building teams and so on and ignoring his outstanding work with Hoffenheim? His philosophy is said to be 70% man management in fact, so it's funny you mentioned that as one sticking point.
AVB is Marseille's manager and had a pretty good season with a subpar squad.Last I heard is he's doing the Dakar.
As some have mentioned, the achievements he has already had with Hoffenheim and Leipzig at such a young age so far are just as impressive as managers at top clubs winning trophies.
Talent and zero trophies is a poor argument in my opinion. There are very very few managers that have won trophies (plural) with smaller clubs, Ferguson and Clough spring to mind in the UK but cant think of many more.
What is a valid argument is that he has only been managing for a short period of time and needs to prove himself over a longer period of time and we need to see how he handles the inevitable step up to a bigger club. Until he does that, there is no definitive answer on whether he is a top top manager. Personally, I think he is a very special manager though and though a huge gamble, I wanted him when Mourinho was fired.
Talent and zero trophies is a poor argument in my opinion. There are very very few managers that have won trophies (plural) with smaller clubs, Ferguson and Clough spring to mind in the UK but cant think of many more.
What is a valid argument is that he has only been managing for a short period of time and needs to prove himself over a longer period of time and we need to see how he handles the inevitable step up to a bigger club. Until he does that, there is no definitive answer on whether he is a top top manager. Personally, I think he is a very special manager though and though a huge gamble, I wanted him when Mourinho was fired.
The first goal was disappointing because the defenders were in a straight line and nobody marked Marquinhos, he just ran right through them. PSG are quality no doubt about it but Leipzig did not look prepared in the first half.
Last I heard is he's doing the Dakar.
Thought you were joking. Wtf? Apparently withdrew after stage 3 with a bad back.
Damn, Marseille? Completely slipped my attention somehow.
AVB is still only 42 tbf, the Chelsea job was just too big and too soon for him especially with their senior players Lampard/Terry and all still there.
Yeah and to be honest what he has done was pure coaching, it's ugly but their team is drilled.
His entire squad doesn't cost more than Ole spent on 2 defenders last year.
But what is the context behind that ? Does Ole winning the league with Molde make him a feasible manager to manage any top team in Europe because he attained success in a dishwasher league ? Ranieri's got a league win to his name and hasn't fashioned anything out of it, Di Matteo is another example. The context here is that they are average managers as is Ole.
I've no problem with Solskjaer having that as an accolade if it's taken with some perspective but fans using it as some superior credential is hilarious.
I just feckin told you, he need to be judged with how you build your team, your man management and winning trophies, not just a playing style alone. Who's judging him by trophies only?
What outstanding? Ralph Hasenhüttl did better than him in RB Leipzig than he did in Hoffenheim. His philosophy is said to be 70% you said, that's why he's a promising manager for reasons not a top manager yet.
Your logic is basically saying Rodgers, Sean Dyche & Chris Wilder were top manager because what they did was outstanding.
When Nagelsmann took over Hoffenheim and helped them survive, they only won half or 7 of 14 matches to survive by a point (37 total points). There were 4 teams within 3 points of the relegation zone. His first full season was very good as everyone agrees with 25 points increase (62 points) and qualified for the CL qualification round. His final year at Hoffenheim, they finished 3rd in the league, but with 55 points. So Hoffenheim finished with 7 points less in his third and final season, but then finished a spot higher than the previous year. And in CL, Hoffenheim finished last in the group (City, Lyon, Shaktar, Hoffenheim) with 3 points, from 3 draws.
Again, RB Leipzig finished in 3rd position with 66 points in the Bundelsiga in 18/19. In Nagelsmann's first year with Leipzig and with a better team than last year, RBL finished 3rd on 66 points. Their goal difference in 19/20 was +10 compared to the previous season, but final points total and league position was the same. The CL run has been very nice, but it's only one season and has to follow up with similar results at least for another year or two before his stock increases further.
He's a young and innovative/bright manager, but he still has loads to learn and show that he can be consistent with expectations and better results. If RBL can continue to improve and push for 2nd spot or maybe even the title in Germany within the next few years, then that'd be a tremendous growth path for Nagelsmann. He might not even get the chance to see that through because he could be picked off by another club within that same timeframe.
What the hell are you even talking about. Leipzig themselves swapped out Hasenhüttl for Nagelsmann.
Because Nagelsmann is more talented & promising. I wouldn't swap Greenwood with Hazard now despite of what Hazard did with Chelsea is better than what Greenwood did with United. Not every thing better is something you want to swap with, there are more into it.
The season after which they tied him down Nagelsmann finished 3rd with Hoffenheim, while Hasenhüttl finished 6th with Leipzig.
And the season after Nagelsmann finished 9th with Hoffenheim.
He's a very good manager. No shame in getting to the semi finals of the CL and losing to a superior side. Great achievement and let's not forget Timo Werner isn't there.
After losing a ton of players, only 4 points fewer than the season before and yet a vastly improved xG differential (2017/18: + 0.13, 2018/19: +0.62). And Leipzig went from +0.76 in 2018/19 to +1.01 in 2019/20 under him. Nagelsmann is a sensational coach and it's a real shame he's working for Red Bull.
Yeah, his worst season. Still not terrible considering he and the club were playing their first ever CL season with a paper thin squad. As has been pointed out in the post above mine, understat's xPTS model actually had them third, basically level with Dortmund and Leipzig. You still haven't explained why Hasenhüttl is as good as Nagelsmann or Nagelsmann as mediocre as Hasenhüttl. I mean you say it's just the age factor, but one is coaching a CL semi the other is coaching Southampton.
Losing who? Promising & very talented manager to be top but not top manager at the moment to me.
For starters Serge Gnabry, you might have heard of him. Also Uth and the winter break before they sold off Wagner without a replacement.
I never say Hasenhüttl is as good as Nagelsmann or Nagelsmann as mediocre as Hasenhüttl, I think you are changing this argument to suit your own. I only said Nagelsmann isn't yet a top manager. Promising & very talented manager to be one of the best yes.
Redcafe is so random rating manager sometimes.
Considering no one had heard of him five years ago and he was about 12 then (like Rivaldo
) I'd say he's done more than o.k at two clubs.
One thing missing from his resume so far was a really good european run and he's got that this season while still finishing them in a very good league position. Are they supposed to finish above Bayern Munich and Dortmund or something?
Considering no one had heard of him five years ago and he was about 12 then (like Rivaldo
) I'd say he's done more than o.k at two clubs.One thing missing from his resume so far was a really good european run and he's got that this season while still finishing them in a very good league position. Are they supposed to finish above Bayern Munich and Dortmund or something?
I mean you wrote:
"Ralph Hasenhüttl did better than him in RB Leipzig than he did in Hoffenheim "
"in Leipzig he inherit a squad that was built by Ralph Hasenhüttl which is playing the exact same playing style as Nagelsmann"
That's part of manager's management to know that Gnabry was just on loan & losing Uth for free.
Yes so what about it? I'm struggling to understand where I said he's as good as or what you are arguing here? Clearly those quotes you quoted are supportive enough to tell you that Nagelsmann is just promising manager & superb talented but still there are areas he hasn't been tested before being called as top manager.
Erm? Isn't he managing Marseille?Last I heard is he's doing the Dakar.
Yet RB Leipzig are performing just as well without them e.g they finish very high in Bundesliga AND go further in CL than ever before?
Must admit I'm struggling to work out why exactly they should've finished above Dortmund this season considering they were top in November and a fair few points ahead of Bayern Munich.
Not sure what's your argument on mine? I think you are a bit all over the place mate for jumping into conversation.
Neither is/was Nagelsmann the person tasked with squad building, nor is Hoffenheim a club that can hold on to players.
So that's pretty much strengthened my original point about Nagelsmann, squad building is also important in a top club to be called top manager.
He's a coach not a manager. Few top clubs have coach and director of sports in one single position because one or both roles fall short.
Pretty amusing how much he's getting killed in the media for his fashion statement. It's almost more talked about than his team's performance.
Not surprised that he couldn’t emulate Pochettino achievement. He is still a good manager though, but not nearly as good as Pochettino.
Feel bad for Spurs fan, they honestly lost a great manager. Nagelsman may just be all hype, but Pochettino is the real deal.
@balaks
The mental gymnastics in this thread are hilarious.
"I watched him closely and his allure took a bit of a hit tonight, not a chance he's suitable for Man Utd."
You should watch our own games with PSG and see how Ole got schooled at Old Trafford (and Paris for that matter). If you didn't know the name of our manager in those games, would you say he's a suitable man for United? And I love Ole by the way, but this obsession with shitting at or demeaning anyone who could even be perceived as a potential threat to OGS is bizarre.
"He only beat Spurs and Atletico Madrid" - he only beat two teams that are coached by drill sergeants like Mourinho and Simeone - who have squads worth multiple times more than RBL - nothing impressive there.
"But he lost badly to PSG" In a matchup with a team that uses the same setup / tactics as you do, the team with superior players will prevail it's that simple. Nkunku vs Neymar. Poulsen vs Mbappe. Olmo vs di Maria - what would you expect in the end?
"I watched him closely and his allure took a bit of a hit tonight, not a chance he's suitable for Man Utd."
You should watch our own games with PSG and see how Ole got schooled at Old Trafford (and Paris for that matter). If you didn't know the name of our manager in those games, would you say he's a suitable man for United? And I love Ole by the way, but this obsession with shitting at or demeaning anyone who could even be perceived as a potential threat to OGS is bizarre.
"He only beat Spurs and Atletico Madrid" - he only beat two teams that are coached by drill sergeants like Mourinho and Simeone - who have squads worth multiple times more than RBL - nothing impressive there.
"But he lost badly to PSG" In a matchup with a team that uses the same setup / tactics as you do, the team with superior players will prevail it's that simple. Nkunku vs Neymar. Poulsen vs Mbappe. Olmo vs di Maria - what would you expect in the end?
And some coconut is arguing Hassenhuttel is a better manager, and then finally Pochettino's mom bursts into the scene to say she's not surprised that Julian couldn’t emulate my son's achievement.
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