RedCafe has become toxic as feck.

[TheLord]

@OP
So you’d much rather have a board that only allows posts outlining how amazing the Glazer ownership has been, how wonderful Ed has been, and how spectacular Olé’s management has been with complete disregard of the actual state of affairs?
You’d have to visit “Redcafe for children” in that case.

 

[Tincanalley]

Not too sure where to put this, but I enjoyed coming to this place over the years and only lately have started to post more.

But I have seen far too many posts lately that are being abusive to our own manager, abusive to our own players, abusive to the owners, abusive to the CEO it's just disgusting to see.

But I'm fed up of seeing people attributed to the club get personal abuse and disgusting takes thrown their way.
The toxicity has skyrocketed since not getting Sancho

RedCafe is in danger of becoming a toxic place to be for Man Utd fans.

Not enough posts critical of the owners and their toady. They are toxic. They have infected the club since they took over.

 

[Tincanalley]

RedCafe is overly toxic for sure. For example, we ought to not abuse the players or manager, instead give constructive criticism. The stick Cavani got just for signing was unbelievably annoying.

For me though, abuse on Woodward and the Glazers is fair game. Do you not think so? They’ve practically ruined Fergie’s empire in 7 years.

Interesting to see how he answers this one

 

[Tincanalley]

@UnitedSofa you have made two threads since yesterday: One criticising how fans treat journalists and one criticising the way the CAF's gone.

Putting aside the fact that, in broad terms, I agree with you about how journalists are treated, I don't see how its okay for you to vent but nobody else to.

Basically you've started two threads telling the rest of the world that you disapprove of how many of us are prats. Personally, I have no issue with that. Nothing wrong with someone having an opinion. On one of those counts, as I said, I agree with you.

However, if you are entitled to air your opinions why be surprised at others doing the same? Why be surprised if those opinions are not relentlessly positive? We are not exactly riding high. Again, I actually agree with you that sacking Ole would not solve anything. However, I don't think you can expect people to have a happy outlook when we are in a bad place right now.

Is the CAF toxic? Well that's an opinion. Plenty on here disagree with me. That's their right. I still think its the best forum for Man Utd chat. That is just my opinion though.

Good post

 

[Enfant terrible]

Edit: I posted in the wrong thread

Guys, does Cavani have to go in self isolation? Will he be eligible for the Newcastle and Paris games?

 

[Faetheshire86]

No one insults the fans of opposite opinions more than the top reds who think they know the right way of supporting the club and everyone else is spoilt.

I can bring many examples, just the OP who claims he's riding the moral high grounds have posted an exactly similar thread after Sunday saying our fanbase is a joke and fickle.



Here're several of his other old posts :



https://www.redcafe.net/threads/tra...-before-posting.447057/page-640#post-24441838



https://www.redcafe.net/threads/tra...-before-posting.447057/page-893#post-24524532








https://www.redcafe.net/threads/tra...-before-posting.447057/page-895#post-24524780



So far this is just the result of a quick search. I can bring plenty more of his posts which all revolve around only one thing : Our fanbase is toxic, entitled and spoilt.

He has probably posted about nothing in this forum bar moaning about the moaning here.

But then he has the nerve to post yet another thread saying the fanbase is toxic, 3 days after posting a similar thread on Sunday.

Haha, that's quite the dossier! You are correct unconstructive moaning about unconstructive moaning isn't helpful. But I also don't think one absolves the other. I also think one is much more prevalent on the forum just now

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Thought this would be another shot at people talking about briefs or even using the word.

 

[fps]

Sadly a lot of people have mistakenly invested their self worth in a group of very rich people who kick a ball about and don’t know they exist. There seem to be lots of nice people here too though.

 

[Cloud7]

Unbelievable. You are the same poster who posted the thread about our fan base being toxic on Sunday because they dare to asl for sacking:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/for-all-the-ole-iners.457941/

3 days later and you post another thread about exactly the same thing. 2 threads about exactly the same thing in 3 days. Fecking hell.

Just leave the forum.

Anything that isn’t blind positivity is being labeled toxicity these days. Didn’t realize the Caf became a poison control center.

 

[Amadaeus]

It what happens with bad management and when organization is run poorly. Look at America under Trump. It is a chaos.

Until we get a better manager and a more efficient organizational structure, then there will be more chaos and toxicity. Bringing in Pochettino or Nagelsman will be a good beginning for a cure, just like how bringing in Biden can heal America. Then similar fixing the organizational structure, like changing the senate control will bring more positivity to United.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

You've basically summed up what's wrong with the forum. You, and many others are not willing to listen to alternative arguments.

I may not agree with a person's opinion but I'm not arrogant enough to not listen to it and discuss it before dismissing it.

You've decided what constitutes a "proper fan", whereas I might thik people that are supporting the manager despite his mediocre performance are not real fans as they are dragging our club into mediocrity. Am I right? Are you right? Or are we both supporters that want the best for the club?

Exactly, sums up the internet too. Great post.

 

[MattyB1986]

Maquire shouldn't have been made instant captain though.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

It what happens with bad management and when organization is run poorly. Look at America under Trump. It is a chaos.

Until we get a better manager and a more efficient organizational structure, then there will be more chaos and toxicity. Bringing in Pochettino or Nagelsman will be a good beginning for a cure, just like how bringing in Biden can heal America. Then similar fixing the organizational structure, like changing the senate control will bring more positivity to United.

Are.You.Comparing.Ole.To.Trump?

 

[Amadaeus]

Are.You.Comparing.Ole.To.Trump?

In terms of not having a clue how to run a team(government) Yes. Not in attitude though. Ole is way more emphatic.

 

[Bojan11]

Agree. @afrocentricity spreading unverified bullshit about Xbox should not be allowed to happen. You need to do something about it @esmufc07 as you are head PS fanboy. Keep your guys in check before it gets more toxic.

 

[pastyfool]

In general message boards/forums aren’t the best way to debate.

On a personal note, I use to enjoy coming here more than what I do now. Living on the other side of the world for the past 10 years it was a nice way to keep in touch with the club.

I don’t enjoy coming here as much as I did.

If you feel that this forum is getting too toxic one of the best things you can do is not take the bait. Engage with the people who seem more balanced and open to different opinions. Maybe even DM people.

For some, everything has to be black or white.
The grey is much more interesting.

 

[Giggsyking]

Can you blame anyone being toxic? It has been 7 years at the biggest club in the world without a major trophy. Do that in Munich, Madrid or Barcelona and there will be riots on the streets. Our board and manager are lucky they are not in charge of the above clubs.

 

[Florida Man]

"abusive to the CEO"

feck Woodward. Don't be a **** for CEOs.

 

[Robbie Boy]

No one insults the fans of opposite opinions more than the top reds who think they know the right way of supporting the club and everyone else is spoilt.

Right now, this is the case. There's a handful that are really contributing to the perceived toxicity but lack the self awareness to see it.

 

[red woppit]

It what happens with bad management and when organization is run poorly. Look at America under Trump. It is a chaos.

Until we get a better manager and a more efficient organizational structure, then there will be more chaos and toxicity. Bringing in Pochettino or Nagelsman will be a good beginning for a cure, just like how bringing in Biden can heal America. Then similar fixing the organizational structure, like changing the senate control will bring more positivity to United.

You cannot revive something that is being bled to near death by leeches. You may get a short term revival, but ultimately the outcome will be the same. As long as the club get into the CL every year, then those leeches will keep filling themselves with the lifeblood of Manchester United.
I like Ole, I think he has done really well to get the club to achieve what it did last season, but is he the man to take us to Prem and CL titles, I have no idea, but ultimately changing the manager now will make no difference in the long term.

 

[HarryRedCrumbs]

I can see the OP’s point and think it is just a sad reflection of modern times. We are individuals more than ever before, everyone having an opinion and everyone thinking that their opinion must be heard. This clearly ends in a so called toxic way. The internet is an amazing source of information, but I have never been a great fan of social media for exactly this reason. Our individual opinions really don’t count for sh*t. If anything, they just help divide us.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

I respect the OP’s sentiments but at the end of the day this forum is a sounding board. Fans ar emotional and we’ve had a poor first three games and a terrible window. Of course the terrible stewardship of the club. Add that to what is largely an extremely stressful year with the pandemic and all, we’re all less patient that before.

The Caf has always had hyper reactionary fans. Fans with agendas and even members from other forums. It’s very unique that way and I’m glad I found it some 10 years ago. Let’s just give everyone a second chance these days. It’s hard out there.

It's a bit more than a sounding board. It's a place for people to promote their agendas. Ole out, glazers out, Woody out, Sancho in - mostly.

 

[Florida Man]

You cannot revive something that is being bled to near death by leeches. You may get a short term revival, but ultimately the outcome will be the same. As long as the club get into the CL every year, then those leeches will keep filling themselves with the lifeblood of Manchester United.
I like Ole, I think he has done really well to get the club to achieve what it did last season, but is he the man to take us to Prem and CL titles, I have no idea, but ultimately changing the manager now will make no difference in the long term.

Ultimate how I feel as well.

 

[No Love]

@UnitedSofa I agree with the general idea that this place is becoming increasingly toxic. Perhaps more damning, in my opinion, is the lack of genuine interaction and discussion between a majority of posters. Quite often, you enter a thread and find several elaborate and lengthy posts; however, they all exist in isolation from one another. There’s a distinct lack of people engaging, talking things over and perhaps even altering their own view in light of new information or a well constructed point that allows them to see things in a new light. It’s the forum equivalent of having a conversation with someone, who is really only waiting for you to stop talking so they can speak again. They’re not taking anything you say on board, nor are they interested. The best conversations are those in which the participants respect one another and respond to the information they receive. Similarly, the best interactions on here, in my opinion, come from posters who appear receptive to what others say.

The beauty of this place is that we should (excluding opposition fans) all be in agreement that we want the best for the club. It should be a place where people can find solace amidst the ranks of other like minded individuals who know, to some extent, how they are feeling. The problem is that people get married or attached to their opinions and feel they have to shout louder to win the argument. This place would be a lot more agreeable if people would realise that their opinion can change and there’s nothing wrong with holding your hands up, accepting that someone has made a good point and saying that you now see, at least to some degree, their perspective. Instead, we get dick measuring contests and people waiting to pounce and deliver the coup de grâce of, “I told you so”. Honestly, some of the posts in here in recent times are abrasive, arrogant, unnecessary and devoid of anything constructive.

Just my two cents, of course. For the record, I’m far from the perfect poster and I’m sure I am guilty of doing the very things I am bemoaning above... Before someone digs me out for being a huge tosser

 

[Rolaholic]

Maquire shouldn't have been made instant captain though.

Toxic opinion that

The likes of you and Evra just want to be negative for the sake of being negative ffs

Not being serious, I agreed at the time and still do

 

[sammsky1]

Human response to things outside of our control, especially things we are attracted to, can be very predictable: we consume stimulus and respond accordingly. This club has one consistent contributor to its stimulus since SAF left which is Edward Woodward. Just as SAF made the club in his personality, and fans responded accordingly, so Woodward has now done the same.

I feel like Im really struggling to support this club with pure passion because I feel like I'm submitting to something rotten and impure, it feels deeply manipulative doesn't have my primary interest at heart. Woodward's dirty corporate purpose is now being expressed through all facets of the club and you feel it everywhere as a supporter. I don't like supporting the club because when I do, I feel like I'm implicitly supporting the Glazers, and not the heritage of the club I fell in love with. So I do my very best not to spend even 1$ that might make it into their pockets. How messed up is that?

I dont think I'll be able to support another club however much I'd like to, too late in my life and way too entrenched to make that switch. But aide from OGS, I really don't like supporting United these days. And even the experience of supporting OGS is sullied by the toxicity OleOUTers infuse the club with.

I get the sense that Liverpool or Leeds are pure sporting projects when I watch them. Even with oil duped City or Chelsea; their core is still a football club trying its best to win, so at least their output is just bland.

So in answer to the OP, the fan base is simply responding to the messages and experiences the club is sending out. This experience is not in keeping with our expectation and is dividing the fan base into many different directions. We are the worst club in England who claims to 'United' and I cant see how that will stop until our senior most leadership's priorities align with their fans.

 

[VP89]

I would like to also apologize to posters I may have come across quite rude to. Rather than debate the issue at hand I don't think I came across as respecting their views and it probably came across as toxic, so I can paste it in this thread

@JPRouve I think I was probably coming across rude to in my Dembele debates
@Nou_Camp99 when I would defend Romano
@UNITED ACADEMY about a range of things, I think
@RUCK4444 I think about Arsenal wanting a wide player? I can't remember if it was you but just take the apology god damnit

I feel better

 

[RUCK4444]

I would like to also apologize to posters I may have come across quite rude to. Rather than debate the issue at hand I don't think I came across as respecting their views and it probably came across as toxic, so I can paste it in this thread

@JPRouve I think I was probably coming across rude to in my Dembele debates
@Nou_Camp99 when I would defend Romano
@UNITED ACADEMY about a range of things, I think
@RUCK4444 I think about Arsenal wanting a wide player? I can't remember if it was you but just take the apology god damnit

I feel better

I don't think that was me mate but I appreciate the gesture.

This is good stuff, we should receive an apology and pass it on, that should lighten the mood here. Likewise I apologies to all posters I've offended! There must be a few as I've been temp banned a few times

 

[Bilbo]

@UnitedSofa I agree with the general idea that this place is becoming increasingly toxic. Perhaps more damning, in my opinion, is the lack of genuine interaction and discussion between a majority of posters. Quite often, you enter a thread and find several elaborate and lengthy posts; however, they all exist in isolation from one another. There’s a distinct lack of people engaging, talking things over and perhaps even altering their own view in light of new information or a well constructed point that allows them to see things in a new light. It’s the forum equivalent of having a conversation with someone, who is really only waiting for you to stop talking so they can speak again. They’re not taking anything you say on board, nor are they interested. The best conversations are those in which the participants respect one another and respond to the information they receive. Similarly, the best interactions on here, in my opinion, come from posters who appear receptive to what others say.

The beauty of this place is that we should (excluding opposition fans) all be in agreement that we want the best for the club. It should be a place where people can find solace amidst the ranks of other like minded individuals who know, to some extent, how they are feeling. The problem is that people get married or attached to their opinions and feel they have to shout louder to win the argument. This place would be a lot more agreeable if people would realise that their opinion can change and there’s nothing wrong with holding your hands up, accepting that someone has made a good point and saying that you now see, at least to some degree, their perspective. Instead, we get dick measuring contests and people waiting to pounce and deliver the coup de grâce of, “I told you so”. Honestly, some of the posts in here in recent times are abrasive, arrogant, unnecessary and devoid of anything constructive.

Just my two cents, of course. For the record, I’m far from the perfect poster and I’m sure I am guilty of doing the very things I am bemoaning above... Before someone digs me out for being a huge tosser

Great post

 

[Caliban]

Of course redcaf is toxic. I hardly read any comments here either. I feel that if i have read one, and taken the temperature, i don`t need to read the rest. The loudest are always the most reactive immature somewhat unintelligent people with hardly nothing to say. Same almost everywhere on the internet. If this was how the United supporters actually was (which it is not) I would have enjoyed this situations doom and gloom (i am not).

Tox only blocks the way for the posts that are actually interesting to read. It is never interesting to read complains, it is to reactive and so doesn`t offer anything.

If anyone thinks Ole will resign and Poch would come in or the Glazers would walk because of an angry post online, think twice and dream on.

It`s just noise, and why I never stay at this forum either. Not healthy, doesn`t offer much and the posts I enjoy reading lives a short life.

I`m just a guest. I don`t care. But I find it sad for those that love United and want a place to hangout and speak intelligently.

Everyone can complain. It`s easy.

 

[No Love]

Great post

I appreciate that, man. Thanks. Glad to see I’m not alone in my way of thinking.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

@UnitedSofa I agree with the general idea that this place is becoming increasingly toxic. Perhaps more damning, in my opinion, is the lack of genuine interaction and discussion between a majority of posters. Quite often, you enter a thread and find several elaborate and lengthy posts; however, they all exist in isolation from one another. There’s a distinct lack of people engaging, talking things over and perhaps even altering their own view in light of new information or a well constructed point that allows them to see things in a new light. It’s the forum equivalent of having a conversation with someone, who is really only waiting for you to stop talking so they can speak again. They’re not taking anything you say on board, nor are they interested. The best conversations are those in which the participants respect one another and respond to the information they receive. Similarly, the best interactions on here, in my opinion, come from posters who appear receptive to what others say.

The beauty of this place is that we should (excluding opposition fans) all be in agreement that we want the best for the club. It should be a place where people can find solace amidst the ranks of other like minded individuals who know, to some extent, how they are feeling. The problem is that people get married or attached to their opinions and feel they have to shout louder to win the argument. This place would be a lot more agreeable if people would realise that their opinion can change and there’s nothing wrong with holding your hands up, accepting that someone has made a good point and saying that you now see, at least to some degree, their perspective. Instead, we get dick measuring contests and people waiting to pounce and deliver the coup de grâce of, “I told you so”. Honestly, some of the posts in here in recent times are abrasive, arrogant, unnecessary and devoid of anything constructive.

Just my two cents, of course. For the record, I’m far from the perfect poster and I’m sure I am guilty of doing the very things I am bemoaning above... Before someone digs me out for being a huge tosser

Great post and I agree. Particular in player performance and Ole out threads it turns easily into people not listening. Or just going with attacks due to our last poor game. I feel like people just ignore opposite views a lot or attacks the poster at worst. I often get too negative after defeats, but I normally listen to other views and I am open to change my mind. With Ole is has been a rollercoaster and I am not fully sure what I think we should do right now.

 

[Enfant terrible]

Nope. You obviously didn't read my post correctly or you misconstrued it. I'm saying there's a certain 'type' of Ole in poster who is as bad a a certain of 'type' of Ole out poster. Both sides have very rational posters who are more than willing to have a sensible debate. However, there's a certain 'type' of Ole in poster: the one which doesn't debate in a constructive manner and would rather skew stats, attempt to come across as a 'better supporter', come across extremely condescending/patronising to anyone who shares a different view and overall just wum and fan the flames. There's only a handful of these posters - one in particular- and yeah, they are responsible for a-lot of the petty bickering. Their posts aren't hard to find nor is it difficult to decipher who I'm talking about.

I didn't 'blame' them on everything. My point was that these posters love to make out it's Ole out fans that cause the problems while lacking the self awareness to see how they majorly contribute to the perceived toxicity. Both sets have hardcore posters that go way above normal critique/defence of the manager and instead embark on personal crusades of their own. Both these sets lack basic nuance and rationale when discussing Ole. I'm ambivalent towards him and only recently I would rather he left as I don't think he's up to the task. But I'm certainly not going to go on a personal crusade against him nor do I need to repeat my stance ad nauseam.

I apologise if my first post lacked clarity. I think this is far and away the best footballing site there is, and the overwhelming majority are good folk - the ones who are clearly wums etc go on ignore - who are willing to share their views/opinions in a rational manner. However, my overarching point is that some need to take off the tinted specs are realise that there's an element of Ole in fans who are toeing the line and creating problems as much as the other side. It's always easier to blame the Out fans but objectively, I see the problem as a dual issue. It's only a handful of posters creating these issues on both sides.

Very well written.
Although I find the separation of the fanbase on Ole in or Ole out quite simplistic I can identify myself with the first group.

I was ready to back him up, because, and this is subjective, I saw elements that indicated progress, I felt some positive energy around the club and I grew up watching the babyface assassin. I know he has determination, focus, guts, and ability because I watched him play.

But that doesn't mean that I think he should stick forever or that he should have some kind of protection. On the contrary, I have big expectations from him. Manchester United is bigger than anyone, and if Ole fails to deliver he should be succeeded by someone who can do it better.

With that said, we did finish 3rd, made it to semis, and I think that is acceptable for the amount of time he has been in charge. I expect additional improvements in our game this season, but if that doesn't happen, then it's time to try something new.

Our start of the season was abysmal but I dont think it's an indicator of the current state nor the real picture.

To conclude, I dont think that anyone who comes will have a straight line to the top week in week out. I was ready for a bumpy ride from the moment SAF left, and I like the notion of Ole being at the wheel.

Till he crashes us in the wall that is.

 

[JPRouve]

I would like to also apologize to posters I may have come across quite rude to. Rather than debate the issue at hand I don't think I came across as respecting their views and it probably came across as toxic, so I can paste it in this thread

@JPRouve I think I was probably coming across rude to in my Dembele debates
@Nou_Camp99 when I would defend Romano
@UNITED ACADEMY about a range of things, I think
@RUCK4444 I think about Arsenal wanting a wide player? I can't remember if it was you but just take the apology god damnit

I feel better

Nah, it was alright. We just disagreed on semantics or to be accurate I disagreed on semantics.

 

[M Bison]

I joined post SAF so have only ever known it toxic.

Even when Ole was flying in the early days, there was still a negative undercurrent and a feeling that certain parts of the fan base enjoyed losses or poor results/performances.

No idea what this place was like in SAF’s time and when we were winning leagues, but I’d be surprised if it was any different?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Very well written.
Although I find the separation of the fanbase on Ole in or Ole out quite simplistic I can identify myself with the first group.

I was ready to back him up, because, and this is subjective, I saw elements that indicated progress, I felt some positive energy around the club and I grew up watching the babyface assassin. I know he has determination, focus, guts, and ability because I watched him play.

But that doesn't mean that I think he should stick forever or that he should have some kind of protection. On the contrary, I have big expectations from him. Manchester United is bigger than anyone, and if Ole fails to deliver he should be succeeded by someone who can do it better.

With that said, we did finish 3rd, made it to semis, and I think that is acceptable for the amount of time he has been in charge. I expect additional improvements in our game this season, but if that doesn't happen, then it's time to try something new.

Our start of the season was abysmal but I dont think it's an indicator of the current state nor the real picture.

With that said, I dont think that anyone who comes will have a straight line to the top week in week out. I was ready for a bumpy ride from the moment SAF left, and I like the notion of Ole being at the wheel.

Till he crashes us in the wall that is.

I am sure Ole is better than the start indicate. Although I don't think he is enough to go for titles beyond maybe a lucky league or Fa cup win.
So for that reason I think we should look for a manager at the next level. When we pull the trigger is hard to know. Panic now might not gain us anything if he still has the players with him.
If he has lost the players then maybe it would be best to fire him right now.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I joined post SAF so have only ever known it toxic.

Even when Ole was flying in the early days, there was still a negative undercurrent and a feeling that certain parts of the fan base enjoyed losses or poor results/performances.

No idea what this place was like in SAF’s time and when we were winning leagues, but I’d be surprised if it was any different?

I was on the official forum at Manutd.com. It was pretty much like here I think. Although more positive since we got wins.

 

[Comet49]

It could get a lot more toxic after the next few games, Newcastle away, never easy, then Chelsea and Arsenal at home, not to mention PSG.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Oh gosh, that word toxic again.

Anytime something isn't Pleasantville it's toxic.

Seriously, though; I get what you mean, it's not the most rational place in the world. Fans have a right to be pissed off and incensed. We haven't won a league title in seven years, so, of course there's going to be irrationality going on.

 

[El Zoido]

It’s pretty appalling how much hate Ole gets. The club has failed him yet there’s more hate directed at our manager (and club legend) than at Ed or the Glazers. I’m kind of lukewarm on Ole as a manager but have become increasingly sympathetic towards him. This fanbase would, without any doubt, have hounded Fergie out of a job long before he took us to the league title. And no I’m not saying Ole will be as successful as SAF, before anyone goes there.