Haha quite.
MNF with Pochettino
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Very true. Missed him completely. Thanks!
I was at a few of those games so yeah I did. We had Barcelona n Bayern Munich in our group. Easy eh?
I'm not basing it off just that either. You're all painting Poch to be the saviour and I'm just saying it might not be the case. I think he's a talented coach but I do think there's something missing with him. Levy clearly thinks so too. And I have no doubts that Poch n Woodward is a disaster waiting to happen.
Yeah the next manager shouldn't be appointed by Woody that I agree with the Ole supporters on,however as I said before he is the jewel in the Glazers crown and therefore will go nowhere
Is it the manager who has been inconsistent or is it having a lot of youth players making everything inconsistent ? With top talents who are inconsistent with a mix of average and some good players I think he has done quite well. Almost won us two trophies last season.
I don't think he's done or has taken us as far as he can. I think there's more to come from both staff and players. Building a team and culture takes time. Not sure Poch would've done any better than Ole so far.
Some teams are set up differently. Some clubs has a structure with a DOF for instance. We dont. Did Liverpool sack Klopp after two seasons? Did City sack Pep before this season? Tuchel hasnt won the CL yet, which is their goal. Sacked? Nagelsmann hasnt won anything yet, with a team thats the second richest team in the league. Sacked?
All of the clubs I've mentioned was deemed better than us when Ole took over. Some still are, some aint. Progress?
Sorry? Just me is it? Look at the vote on the Ole sack thread? I'm in the majority fella. 60% still backing him. Why? because we can see some of the good stuff he's done and still doing and understand who the real problem at the club is. Ed Woodward.
I think Ed should go before any manager now personally. Even if this wasn't Ole in charge now and it was already Poch in the hot seat. Ed has had his time and he's messed everything up.
Wow dude perfectly said. I realise that we all won't have the same opinion on this issue but I keep going back to this. What would people do if it wasn't Ole at the helm? Would they get this time.
That's the difference between the Ole In's and the Ole Out's, you see the two good runs sandwiched between the underwhelming performances as a plus point to his management, whereas the other side see it as a major problem. Consistency is an essential component to any top team, especially for the likes of United who pride themselves on winning domestic titles.
Inconsistent sides don't win league titles.
Nothing will change. He'll come in, sign a couple of players, get top 4, the bollockhead will disappear for the transfer window, we'll do badly and bollockhead will sack him.
Rinse and repeat.
Rinse and repeat.
Klopp has consistently improved Liverpool from a point , results and style standpoint every year. What exactly has Ole done except for the few counter attacking wins against the big sides? What's our style ? Is there even a style ? He has spent 300m till now. When will it show on the field ?
You do not keep an underperforming manager even if we have shit people at the top. Yes this has been the cycle - sacking and hiring managers constantly but like I said the Glazers aren't going anywhere and I actually think this cycle is the only way we will see positive change. At some point in this hiring and sacking of managers cycle one of two things will happen, either we stumble upon a Manager that turns things around or we finally get a DoF after repeated failure.
I am fairly certain of that myself.
Im not saying he wouldn't be successful. But, Poch operated under this system at Spurs and Southampton. Although, he didn't agree with the structure at Spurs. There's barely a suitable candidate for manager out there now who doesn't operate under this structure to some degree.
It's why I don't get the clamour for managers who are use to operating in that environment. Then expect them to have free reign over all matters at Utd without the support structure they are used to and still be a success.
If every club who didn't win the title or the CL in a certain season sacked its coach, there would barely be anyone surviving in a job for more than one year.
I never said that big clubs don't give coaches time. But they don't blindly give them a few seasons. You could see Klopp was doing a very good work in his first couple of years. City lost the title after winning it twice in a row. Tuchel just reached the CL final. They were and are judged, not given a few seasons to run with it and see you in 2024.
Which of those clubs was deemed better than us in 2019 and isn't now?
That poll is asking whether we should sack Ole, not whether Poch is better qualified than he is................... ??
It's also redundant because, while the thread is obviously going strong, most people have forgotten about the poll and very few people will be bothering to update their choices on it.Why don't you put up a poll with the title: "Which manager has the better CV: Ole or Poch?". See if more than 1% is stupid enough to think it's Ole.
Ed should go. He's made so many mistakes. And his single biggest mistake was giving Ole a permanent deal 3 months before he had to make a decision on it, purely because of some reactionary idiots in the media clamouring for him to.
I think he should go with Ole, today preferably, as this would have been his fourth consecutive managerial appointment that has failed. Four in a row. That's a shocking stat, especially when you consider how well backed they all were in the transfer market.
But that's not going to happen and we all know that. Woodward is going nowhere as long as the Glazers have control of the club.
Tottenham had Barcelona, Inter AND PSV. Easy, eh?
I'm not seeing Pochettino as a saviour. I'm seeing him as a very good coach who has done enough to earn a shot at a bigger club with more means. Doesn't have to be United, I'll be happy if we go down a different road with another manager. But looking at our options, I see no reason it can't be him.
As for Levy thinking he's missing something - why did he let him manage his club for FIVE AND A HALF years? Can you not understand that a coach being sacked - especially after such a long period, how many get 5.5 years at a job nowadays? - doesn't mean there's something wrong with him?
Absolutely spot on mate but over half the fanbase don't agree with this thinking,I appreciate what he did as a player but don't let it affect my judgement when it comes to managing us
Third, really, as Moyes was never his. But yes, of course he should go. Unfortunately, he isn't going. Doesn't mean we have to accept Solskjaer staying, though.
Sorry, you're right.
Yeah Rio was far too reactionary after that win in Paris and clearly Woody saw that and panic appointed Ole on a permanent basisThat poll is asking whether we should sack Ole, not whether Poch is better qualified than he is................... ??
Why don't you put up a poll with the title: "Which manager has the better CV: Ole or Poch?". See if more than 1% is stupid enough to think it's Ole.
Ed should go. He's made so many mistakes. And his single biggest mistake was giving Ole a permanent deal 3 months before he had to make a decision on it, purely because of some reactionary idiots in the media clamouring for him to.
Even if Poch was the manager now and it was Ole waiting in the wings to take over I'd not want another manager sacked. It's not me being loyal to Ole. The manager deserves a chance to turn it around and more importantly I don't want to see another restart and another manager sacked with Ed Woodward getting away with it.That poll is asking whether we should sack Ole, not whether Poch is better qualified than he is................... ??
Why don't you put up a poll with the title: "Which manager has the better CV: Ole or Poch?". See if more than 1% is stupid enough to think it's Ole.
Ed should go. He's made so many mistakes. And his single biggest mistake was giving Ole a permanent deal 3 months before he had to make a decision on it, purely because of some reactionary idiots in the media clamouring for him to.
If it was Woodward going with Ole I would be far more on board with the idea.
No one can predict how would a manager do though. His only mistake was going from a high pressing possession based LVG to low block possession less Jose. Apart from that can you blame him for what he has done?
LVG was widely accepted, Jose was our darling and Ole is Ole. The criticisms Woodward gets is bit OTT. He is actually doing a decent job imo.
5 and half years to achieve what Harry Redknapp did. CL qualification and no trophies.
This is my issue. If this was Pep Guardiola waiting to take over I don't think it would even be a debate. It would be a no brainer.
Poch constantly bottled it in big games for Spurs and didn't even deliver a carabao cup. Remember when we played them at Wembley and we were the underdogs? Sanchez header?
Klopp took over in October 2015. They ended up 8th. Lost the EL final and finished both domestic cups early
16/17 Ended up 4th. Semi final in the league cup. 4th round of FA Cup.
17/18 First CL for years for Liverpool. Ended with a final loss and 4th in the league.Domestic cups out early
18/19 2nd in the league. Out in first round in both domestic cups. Won the CL
19/20 Won the league after his 5th season in charge. Lost in the round of 16 in CL. Going out rather early in domestic cups. Won Super Cup and Club world cup
Ole: Took over in december 18/19. Ended 6th and made the quarter final in the CL. quarter final in FA cup.. Out before he took over in league cup.
19/20. His first full season. Ended 3rd and lost in 3 semi finals.
You think this is so shit that he deserves to get sacked? How many players has Klopp left from when he took over almost 6 years ago before he won the league? I simply cannot get behind you on this one.
See over. Time is more than a season. In his first season he did rather well. Better than many other managers who is regarded much better.
We've beaten PSG twice and trashed RB. If we go over them in the group, you wouldn't agree that we're atleast on level with them?
I'd sack Woodward before I'd sack Ole but the problem is that Ole's fate is decided by Woodward. Woodward's fate is decided by the Glazers.
And for all his failings and idiocy Woodward does care about whether United are successful or not. Whereas the Glazers simply don't give a shit so long as the dividend payments are stable.
So while the Glazers still own the club I don't see there being any other alternative than to keep spinning the wheel on managers and hoping we find the next guy who can 'do a Klopp' and bring us success despite a fairly incompetent board behind him. There's no doubt that all of our managers have had significant funds to play with and total freedom to implement their own coaching ideas. They've just all spent it ridiculously poorly.
I thought you were an imposter but now i'm certain. Obvious WUM. No way you're a United fan.
This man has made multiple huge errors that even our former players have spoken out on. How he treated Rio was a disgrace. Giving Sanchez 400k a week. Giving Phil jones a new 4 year contract. I could go on all day.
Ed Woodward has been a disaster.
And thus....here we are.
We'll keep hiring managers, sacking managers, hiring managers and that weasel gets to survive as the fans turn on the manager and team.
Ole in all the way. This club needs a revolution. Woodward n Poch won't get us back to where we want to be. We might just play slightly better football for a while before it all falls in again which it will. Is that what we've become?
Yes I will give you it took Klopp a few years to sort Liverpool out,however even without the right players you could see what he was trying to implement. With Ole I honestly haven't got a clue but resembles something to do with counter attack and hope for individual moments
I was Ole in all the way when he was caretaker manager,however when Woody pulled the trigger it reeked of him being overpowered by our fanbase
WUM or whatever feck. Bother to answer my question ? It was very specific. What has he done wrong in terms of managerial appointment?
It's clearly better for the club to at least try to find a manager who can be successful than stick with someone who never will be. I will never buy into obvious club propaganda that's been trying to sell the death of ambition as a project.
These are off the top of my head and no particular order:
1. Giving Rooney a new contract.
2. Signing Sanchez.
3. Chasing Europe's elite players only to end up with Fellaini who he could have brought for a considerably lower price earlier in the window.
4. Giving everyone chairman in Europe an astounding erection after broadcasting to them that United have a war chest at their disposal and they plan to use it.
5. Referring to the club as Disneyland when trying to entice Jurgen Klopp.
6. Failing to appoint a Director of Football at the club, choosing to take the job on himself. And failing miserably at it.
7. Failing to secure a multitude of top players across Europe in every transfer window.
8. Selling on Depay and Zaha, who both went on to have very good careers post-United.
9. Giving undeserving United players new contracts such as Jones and Lingard among others.
10. He's a smug prick.
11. Failing to replace Herrera and Lukaku.
Probably more, I just can't think right now.
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That is literally how pretty much every single football club in the world operates. You hire a manager and if you see he is not doing a good job, you sack him and move on. That's how it should be. Our managers have been sufficiently backed to at least show gradual improvement but what do we get instead? Shitshow after shitshow. Ed doesn't coach or pick the team, his biggest mistake is hiring clearly wrong managers. We should stop pretending we are some kind of special club and can win stuff with any mediocre manager as we are not. We made a mistake with Ole, sack him and find a new one. Maybe we will get lucky, maybe not. Still worth a shot rather than do feck all and watch us being a laughing stock week after week.
Panic and gone from style to style with no plan.
Not employed a DOF to help him as he's out of his depth.
Continually embarrassed us in the transfer market where club CEOs and agent publicly mock him.
He's been the biggest joke in the world until Donald Trump came along.
Never will be? He came close to success in his first full season. 3 semi finals beating some good sides along the way. And we were better than Sevilla for long spells but Martial missed 3 sitters. Another day he doesn't and we are in a final.
Forget all these cup final shits . Those
Things doesn't matter to anyone.
Klopp like Ole took over mid season and finished mid table. He got them 4th next season with a 16 point increase . Ole got us 3rd with zero point increase (thanks to others fecking it up). Klopp maintained the same points the very next year (remember not 66 but 75) .
Even if Ole wants to achieve 66 points, he has to get 1.87 points per game which he has never done until now (his average as permanent man united manager is 1.78) . Remember the bar is still on 66 points which won't be good enough for top 6 this year.
Weren't you happy with Jose ? Weren't you happy with Ole ? Weren't you happy with LVG ?
Managerial appointment are always lottery. Get used to it. No one gets it right 100%
How do you measure success? Winning league cups and Europa league trophies? Or dominating the premier league and winning the champions league. This is what we should be aiming for. Do you think Ole can give us this?
If you are talking about other details, I have plenty more to add. My response was very specific to managerial appointments though.
For a start, each appointment had no planning involved, evidenced by the fact every manager we have had follows a different footballing philosophy.