Is Poch really the answer?

[Dominos]

I'm not really talking about a manager that has just won trophies. We could get Di Matteo if that's the case. I'm talking about a manager that can instill the desire to win in a team. Poch did well with Spurs but it's not just that he didn't win anything, it's that he bottled it at every chance he got and that's quite alarming

How can they prove they have instilled the desire to win in a team unless they've won trohpies?

If they've not won trophies you'd label them as incapable of instilling the desire to win, like you did with Poch. So it is about trophies.

I'd love to hear who you think the better options are.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

How can they prove they have instilled the desire to win in a team unless they've won trohpies?

If they've not won trophies you'd label them as incapable of instilling the desire to win, like you did with Poch. So it is about trophies.

I'd love to hear who you think the better options are.

Yes I agree. I said instilling a desire to win is not just about winning trophies. Meaning it's not limited to only winning trophies.

Among the popular names Rose Rodgers Tuchel Hasenhüttl Nagelsman and Ten Hag I don't think any are clear better options than Poch. But my reason for not wanting Poch is simple and common, he has proven to be a bottler and his team chokes under pressure when they had the chance to win something. My preferred choice will be Hasenhüttl

 

[HowYouDoin]

Well lets see. Is a manager that had success with both Southampton and Tottenham and made the CL finals better than Ole? Umm yeah.

He isnt perfect, there is no perfect manager out there but he is one of the best. Thats good enough. Ideally we would have Klopp or Pep but after those two who else is out there? Barca just hired Koumman. Just for reference. So yes Poch is the answer and he should be hired immediately

 

[HowYouDoin]

I mean honestly probably every manager in the PL would be an upgrade over Ole. If we had Rodgers for example or heck even Moyes yes Moyes we would be a much better team.
So we shouldnt have any reservations at all about Poch.

 

[Leftback99]

One thing I definitely wouldn't expect if he did come is a quick response from our players and getting anything from this season. He finished 5th in his first season even with Kane scoring 21 goals.

 

[HowYouDoin]

One thing I definitely wouldn't expect if he did come is a quick response from our players and getting anything from this season. He finished 5th in his first season even with Kane scoring 21 goals.

I would. I feel we have a pretty good team, we just dont have a manager. No offense to Ole, loved him as a player but he isnt a PL manager.

 

[fps]

The answer is to clear out Pogba, Matic, and anyone else who performs erratically and often inadequately, and replace them with consistent, dependable quality. Ole can do that.

Though I’m seriously worried about Bruno.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Depends on what is the question. Is it who is available who is better than Ole, then yes.
If the question is what do we do to challenge the title again, then I am not so sure Poch is the answer.

Jose, outdated as per caf, got us 2nd.
Ole, PE teacher as per caf, got us 3rd.
What will Poch do? It is all a guesswork.

Personally, I don't think Poch is that big a deal. He being better than Ole will hardly help us.

 

[matt10000]

What’s wrong with Ole?

 

[ReallyUSA]

I mean honestly probably every manager in the PL would be an upgrade over Ole. If we had Rodgers for example or heck even Moyes yes Moyes we would be a much better team.
So we shouldnt have any reservations at all about Poch.

Settle down a lil bit.

 

[acrebo]

One thing I definitely wouldn't expect if he did come is a quick response from our players and getting anything from this season. He finished 5th in his first season even with Kane scoring 21 goals.

At the time in question, I’d say 5th was par. Behind the ‘big 4’ at the time of United, City, Arsenal and Chelsea, and ahead of Liverpool and Everton (who both finished ahead of Spurs the previous year).

 

[Amad7]

One of the best managers in the world, we’ll easily win the league with him.

 

[Dominos]

Yes I agree. I said instilling a desire to win is not just about winning trophies. Meaning it's not limited to only winning trophies.

Among the popular names Rose Rodgers Tuchel Hasenhüttl Nagelsman and Ten Hag I don't think any are clear better options than Poch. But my reason for not wanting Poch is simple and common, he has proven to be a bottler and his team chokes under pressure when they had the chance to win something. My preferred choice will be Hasenhüttl

The problem with this sort of logic is you get viewed more negatively the closer you come to winning a trophy. Your reputation will actually be enhanced if you never have a sniff of top level success because then it's impossible to "bottle" anything, which you can see is just absurd rationale.

One thing I definitely wouldn't expect if he did come is a quick response from our players and getting anything from this season. He finished 5th in his first season even with Kane scoring 21 goals.

Very different, Spurs job was off the back of the AVB/Sherwood transition of losing Bale and dropping out the top 4 before he took over.

Poch would be taking over a much better squad here that finished 3rd last season.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

The problem with this sort of logic is you get viewed more negatively the closer you come to winning a trophy. Your reputation will actually be enhanced if you never have a sniff of top level success because then it's impossible to "bottle" anything, which you can see is just absurd rationale.

Yes this is why I said I'm not sure those managers are clear better options than Poch but I also have serious doubts whether we can win trophies under Poch

 

[HowYouDoin]

Settle down a lil bit.

I stand by what I said.
Most managers in the PL would be an upgrade over Ole including yes Moyes. Moyes is much better.
We won 66 points last season, 64 when Moyes was the manager and I do think the team we have right now is significantly better.
Heck West Ham is currently playing better than us, what other proof you need.

 

[Leftback99]

I stand by what I said.
Most managers in the PL would be an upgrade over Ole including yes Moyes. Moyes is much better.
We won 66 points last season, 64 when Moyes was the manager and I do think the team we have right now is significantly better.
Heck West Ham is currently playing better than us, what other proof you need.

Poch got 64 and 70 in his first two seasons at Spurs so I wouldn't be expecting much better.

 

[OrcaFat]

I think the summer signings were a bit of a mess to be honest. Cavani is a misfit in this squad. VDB is a player in one of the few positions we already have quality in, and Telles although he might turn out to be a good signing wasn't really someone I'd have thought would be a priority. I don't think any of them leave us significantly better off than last year although I obviously want all three to do well.

Nothing wrong with singing academy players either but you'll be lucky to get one top player out of any group of academy players, and even then half the time they have to go elsewhere before they will reach that level. If a manager replaced Ole now, they wouldn't be winning or competing for leagues with our academy players in 2-3 years time, and you wouldn't find fans suddenly willing to be more patient with them either.

The front four is something I would actually give Ole the credit for since he was brave enough to back Greenwood, has overseen significant improvements in Rashford and Martial, and signed Fernandes. You can argue Rashford and Martial might have naturally improved anyway but Ole has backed them where Jose for example wouldn't have.

Every manager will have their plus points and their down sides, but the problem at United just very clearly runs deeper than that. Every year we are back having the same discussions about Woodward. Every manager we have he seems to end up working against rather than for. We see a clear pattern with United where the goal is short term revenue gain rather than long term success. If I was a Klopp or Pep for example I know I would probably avoid United because it's quite clear that the club wouldn't have the same priorities as me, which would make succeeding very difficult, and one of the biggest parts of being succesful is being smart and determined enough not to work with people who make it harder for you.

I don't like the term deadwood as I think it's a stupid way to talk about your own players, but the reason it's banded around here so much is because we do not manage or recruit players effectively, and we do not have consistent or acceptable standards on the pitch that we hold them to, or even allow our managers to hold them to. There's no incentive for a player at United to push themselves. There's no consistency with the standards players are held to. Pogba, and this isn't meant as an attack on him, is an example of everything that is wrong with this club. One player can get frozen out for misplacing a few passes, while another can fumble around misplacing passes, costing the team games, engaging in open warfare with their manager on and off the pitch, treading all over the club's status in press conferences and there are no consequences whatsoever. Presumably because it might hurt the marketing.

From the outside at this point I'm pretty sure we look like a bit of a joke. I'm amazed when we sign a decent player never mind manager...and I'm convinced that someone like Fernandes for example would just not hang around at United for long, because they will just realise they are better than that and that the club isn't interested enough in reaching the levels they want to reach.



We appointed Jose, signed a bunch of players for him, and then when he wanted to build a Jose Mourinho team we decided this is not what we wanted. That's not really backing him. We wouldn't even let him manage his own players. He wanted, quite rightly, to hold Pogba to the standards you'd expect and need from a top level player, and the club wouldn't let him do it, and wouldn't let him get rid of Pogba either.

He certainly had to go but even then we kept him around for another 6 months letting him sabotage things, because he knew as well as everyone else that the club were not interested in doing things his way.

You've completely lost me with the Lampard comparison. When he took over Chelsea were in a much better position than United. Last season United have then finished above Chelsea and through the course of the season been a better side than them. Neither team has won anything. Then this summer Chelsea have literally more or less signed a new team while Woodward ponced around pretending to sign Sancho. This is another weird thing with our fans. Some of you are SO determined to criticise our manager or particular players that it is like you just completely blind yourselves to anything that can't be used as a criticism, or just use it anyway in the hope no one notices that it makes no sense.

And if you are moaning about the standards the club applies to the manager and it's team, then surely you are admitting that the club does not back it's manager to be succesful? In your words "standards are truly like a midtable club with money"...Our manager doesn't decide what standards the club holds itself to unless the club allows them to.



I'm not sure what there is or isn't to buy into. Klopp's story makes a lot of sense particularly where he's talked about Woodward....no one would "never break a contract" if the opportunity was too good to turn down.

If you were one of the best managers in the world and could choose whether to work with United/Woodward or not, would you?

Pochettino is the tier below for me. A good manager but he's shown at Spurs that he's happy to make do, and at United all that will do is get the fans and media on his back within a couple of years when we're back to trying to paint 3rd place as a success and then not being able to push on from there.

That’s a long post but good reading.

 

[Berbasbullet]

@Amadaeus what’s so great about poch? You are the head of his fan club so this is the platform for you to sell him to us. Why will he take us to the top?

 

[Josep Dowling]

Many people have gone on about his lack of trophies but it’s about when he started at a club and where it ended. At Southampton he took a relegation team and made them finished 7th, to a point where their squad was dismantled by bigger clubs. At Spurs he took a Europa League team at best and made them a regular Champions League qualifier, almost won the league, almost won the Champions League with absolutely no budget. Ultimately he got sacked by Spurs
because expectation grew as he made that team better.

I genuinely can’t fathom how fans think Ole is better than that CV. Maybe he won’t win us a trophy but I can be sure I will have more confidence in Poch than I will ever with Ole. I stood by Jose because I saw progress and even now he is our most successful manager post Fergie. I’ll stick to my judgement on managers rather than the fairy tale fanatics on here who have talked crap since Ole took over.

 

[Stacks]

Not for me. Ridiculously overhyped. His teams are soft as feck, the style of play isn't anywhere near as good as the armchair experts claim, and his big game record isn't anywhere near good enough.

Get Hasenhuttl or Rose before City/Pool get their filthy hands on them and leave us further behind than we already are.

Are Rose's team "hard as feck" did they have a better style and do they have a big game record? Is Hasenhuttl saints better than Poch? I dont think so

 

[Forevergiggs1]

He is because I m barely ever wrong. This is a long time coming and pochettino is the one to return us to glory. He will revolutionized United more so than he did with Spurs and Southampton, especially with our resource.

I'm along the same line if thinking . Been following him since his Espanyol days and was impressed with him and each time he moved clubs I knew that I wanted him at United. Whether he's a success or not remains to be seen but I get the feeling United would be perfect for him and if not at least he won't be added to my what if list. That's if he comes of course.

 

[wolvored]

Although not my no 1 choice if he can perennially get us top 4 he will have a job here for as long as he wants it. Over the seasons, like Fergie and Klopp he could then build a title winning team.

 

[El Jefe]

I'm totally bemused at how some posters are vehemently against Pochettino. I understand if he's not your first or second choice even but there's a large section mainly on the caf that is seriously downplaying his career so far.

This is a manager than got both Southampton and Spurs their highest league position and points total within one and three seasons respectively. Can we not forget that Lallana, Lambert, Lovren, Shaw, Schneiderlin and Walker all got their moves to bigger clubs largely due to their performances under him.

When Jose was our manager, the caf wanted half of Spurs' first 11. Alderweireld, Kane, Dembele, Alli, Rose and Dier were players the majority of us wanted because of how they played under Pochettino. The man is a genius when it comes to getting his players getting to peak performance. Forget tactics and formations for a second and just think how good our team could be if he got our best players playing at their best.

One of the biggest criticisms of Ole is that we don't seem to have an identifiable style and we struggle with passing moves. Pochettino ticks both boxes, his teams have a clear playing style and he's shown he's fantastic at playing out from the back with his previous teams.

He's not perfect of course, he has his flaws but based on what I'm reading in this thread you'd think he's only being judged from 2018/19 onwards. Make no mistake about it, his career in the PL so far has been excellent and I've no doubt he'd be our best appointment post Fergie by a long margin.

 

[Greck]

People are entitled to their opinion. Can't fault anyone for being unsure but the people saying he will surely fail like they've looked into the future need to feck right off and stop trying to poison the well for others just because their man failed as manager. You know the future about as well as the rest of us and many of us feel he will be good if he comes here. It's all opinion

 

[Eli Zee]

Is there ever any clear cut answer? If the right answer is the person who will be best for the club, there's only 1 right answer and hundreds of wrong ones.

i think all we know is Ole probably is not the right person for the job.....i wish he was but it seems like his tactics and coaching are not at the level needed to get Manchester United back to the top

 

[Bebestation]

I was watching a video about Pochettino's tactics:

Is it a total coincidence that Ole has used the 4231, the 4312 Diamond, the 352 ? Its literally the same tactics Pochettino plays with or atleast teaches his squad with.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I was watching a video about Pochettino's tactics:

Is it a total coincidence that Ole has used the 4231, the 4312 Diamond, the 352 ? Its literally the same tactics Pochettino plays with or atleast teaches his squad with.

So, what, Ole's been training the team to be ready for Pochettino?

 

[Freak]

I like Poch actually. He’s a premier league proven manager who got Southampton and Spurs to their best league finishes despite their budgets. His teams have also statistically been top in quite a few seasons for most distances covered per game (so he basically expects these overpaid cnuts to work hard).

I know people like the flavour of the month managers like Rose but there’s no guarantee of success with them either.

Yes Poch has not won anything but why can’t he win something for the first time with us?

 

[shaky]

People are entitled to their opinion. Can't fault anyone for being unsure but the people saying he will surely fail like they've looked into the future need to feck right off and stop trying to poison the well for others just because their man failed as manager. You know the future about as well as the rest of us and many of us feel he will be good if he comes here. It's all opinion

How do you know Ole wouldn't end up being a success here? Getting tetchy about people potentially "poisoning the well" for Poch when you're happy to predict the future when it suits you? Comical hypocrisy.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

How do you know Ole wouldn't end up being a success here?

Because there’s a fecking mounting pile of evidence for it. The pile gets bigger by the week.

 

[Jaqen H'ghar]

Anyone pinning their hopes on any manager 'saving' us is setting themselves up for disappointment. We are not challenging for major honors anytime soon, for reasons that have nothing to do with who the manager is.

 

[Greck]

How do you know Ole wouldn't end up being a success here? Getting tetchy about people potentially "poisoning the well" for Poch when you're happy to predict the future when it suits you? Comical hypocrisy.

Are you joking on this? How do I know what Ole's tenure will look like as the United manager? Really dude? because we're already 2 years into it

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Are you joking on this? How do I know what Ole's tenure will look like as the United manager? Really dude? because we're already 2 years into it

Do you think on our current squad level that this squad is good enough to challenge for the title right now? I’m not talking about potential, I’m talking about current level now.

If competing for top 4 is the best we can do with the current squad level, that’s what we are doing and what we achieved last season. This season is still 6 league games running for us and just like last season, Ole has shown that he can still turn it around to deliver this top 4.

If we want to replace Ole now while it’s only 6 league games then it has to be a manager that can win us the league or challenge the league this season not just someone who will achieve the same thing.

 

[drmuji]

You were frustrated with Levy's stinginess?
Here at Manchester United we can do things in the transfer market that other teams can only dream of.
Like bailing out from Sancho after 2 years spent "scouting" him.

You got me there

 

[Asger]

Do you think on our current squad level that this squad is good enough to challenge for the title right now? I’m not talking about potential, I’m talking about current level now.

If competing for top 4 is the best we can do with the current squad level, that’s what we are doing and what we achieved last season. This season is still 6 league games running for us and just like last season, Ole has shown that he can still turn it around to deliver this top 4.

If we want to replace Ole now while it’s only 6 league games then it has to be a manager that can win us the league or challenge the league this season not just someone who will achieve the same thing.

I can’t see anyone get better than last season with our current squad. It’s even sad that Everton have better fullbacks than we do! Liverpool, City, Chelsea have better squad than United, Spurs are good and have Jose! 5-6 place would be just on par with current squad!

 

[reddevil702]

I thought klopp saw out the season with dortmund before wanting a break from football and had to contest with his best players being transferred where as poch never had that issue but did do fantastic working on a modest budget which is definitely something we need in the next manager with the club being tight fisted with transfer funds whenever we get top 4 finishes.

I think you’re right about seeing out the season but it wasn’t to take a break, Dortmund sacked him although I believe they put something out like mutual agreement. If I remember correctly that may have been following the summer that Lewandoski left. Poch didn’t lose anyone and surprisingly that was the summer Levy actually spent money, but I still think Poch can do very well at United with the players available.

 

[Craig Ward]

I'm totally bemused at how some posters are vehemently against Pochettino. I understand if he's not your first or second choice even but there's a large section mainly on the caf that is seriously downplaying his career so far.

This is a manager than got both Southampton and Spurs their highest league position and points total within one and three seasons respectively. Can we not forget that Lallana, Lambert, Lovren, Shaw, Schneiderlin and Walker all got their moves to bigger clubs largely due to their performances under him.

When Jose was our manager, the caf wanted half of Spurs' first 11. Alderweireld, Kane, Dembele, Alli, Rose and Dier were players the majority of us wanted because of how they played under Pochettino. The man is a genius when it comes to getting his players getting to peak performance. Forget tactics and formations for a second and just think how good our team could be if he got our best players playing at their best.

One of the biggest criticisms of Ole is that we don't seem to have an identifiable style and we struggle with passing moves. Pochettino ticks both boxes, his teams have a clear playing style and he's shown he's fantastic at playing out from the back with his previous teams.

He's not perfect of course, he has his flaws but based on what I'm reading in this thread you'd think he's only being judged from 2018/19 onwards. Make no mistake about it, his career in the PL so far has been excellent and I've no doubt he'd be our best appointment post Fergie by a long margin.

Good post.

While I think Poch is a great coach, and most likely better than Ole he will inevitably fall into the trap of every utd manager post SAF.

Lets not forget, for all they're flaws and how it turned out here we have had two world class managers at the helm (LVG and Jose) and an extremely experience PL manager (Moyes). All have bombed under the current structure of the club.

The fundamental issue of our club is the vision of the owners and the way the club is run and the personnel running it.

To some degree, it doesnt matter who the manager is.

And thats without even discussing the flaws in the playing squad.

Poch suited Southampton perfectly - a chance to develop and sell on players. It was the same gig at Spurs really for him and he struck lucky with Kane becoming a world class striker during his time there. His transfer record isn't great with incomings but what impresses me with Poch is his ability to make players better, especially youngsters. He has a good knack of promoting youth which fits to our ethos (So does Ole to be fair)

I think the utd job would appeal to him and in the short term we would see an upturn in results (like we did with LVG, Jose and Ole) but it saddens me to say we will be back to square one in a year or two. Then rinse, repeat.

The club will only move forward with a change behind the scenes. That is the biggest and boldest move we could do and absolutely paramount to any hope we have of future success.

Those slating his pedigree are off the mark - he is a top coach for sure and ordinarily i'd be excited of us hiring a manager like Poch.

But what we need is stability and time with the same vision to ensure the squad is transitioned properly. The problem with hiring a new manager every 2-3 years is you have new signings to suit that manager, so over the course of 3/4/5 managers you end up with a squad of dis-jointed, un-motivated lazy players. The squad Ole has now - albeit better than when we took over still has so many issues:
Jones/Rojo/Lingard are all surplus to requirements
Mata/Matic are past they're best
Pogba/Martial have questionable attitudes
Bailly/Tuanzebe have struggled for seasons with injury
Maguire/Lindelof/Shaw/James/Rashford/McTom/AWB/Fred all struggle with maintaining consistent form
Donny/Telles/Cavani are yet to settle and find they're place in the squad.
Williams/Greenwood/Henderson still developing

Adding another philosophy and yet more signings could be risky.

Arguable if Ole's way is working but if you look at the players who arent here or arent featuring from when he started - Ole is doing a great job of shifting the squad around for the better.

I think we have a foundamental issue with the playing squad though - too many influential bad characters. Pogba noteably. Martial too. We are just a morally poor bunch of professionals. We dont have the basic mentality throughout the squad to be consistent enough to even maintain a regular top 4 challenge for me. That will be Poch's downfall like all previous managers before him in my opinion.

I'd love to be more positive but our squad is a shambles and they way we are run is even worse.

 

[Adisa]

These people know nothing about football.

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[RepardReece]

Poch has better creds than ole.

ole managed Cardiff - relegated -
next port of call part timers Molde does nowt.
next call, temporary Manager of the mighty Man United until they find a proper replacement. Players are so relieved to br rid of Jose they play without a care and win 12 games, board rush to appoint Ole off the back of it, reality hits and we loose game after game. He buys Bruno and we start playing somehow finish 3rd.
this season worst start ever 1 point from 12 at home, embarrassed by spurs 6-1 embarrassed by Palace 3-1

Poch , Manages Southampton for 1 year - finishes 8th, their best ever finish -
Spurs snap him up - finishes top 3 in his 4 first seasons at Spurs, gets to Champions league final

Wiki on Poch
Pochettino favours a very high-pressing, attacking style of football. He often employs a 4–2–3–1 formation at the clubs he manages. While doing so, he instructs his team to build from the back, intimidate and unsettle opponents with a quick-press system and work the ball into the box.
Pochettino is hailed by many pundits for his focus on developing local players from the clubs' youth academies, get local government and references' support, and a willingness to promote young players in general.It was also noted that many young players under his tutelage went on to play for the England national team while the manager himself felt that it was his duty to develop English talent, saying "I feel when I arrived in Spain and now in England in which way can we say 'thank you' to the country that opened the door when I didn't speak English. And how people treated me and my family and my staff which was really well. It's a way to say thank you to the Premier League and the people who trust in you".

Players coached by Pochettino also praised his man-management approach and guidance with his willingness to advise, encouraging the players to take charge of their own development as well as helping them to improve physically, technically and mentally.


its a yes form me.

This whole post, especially bolded. Don't understand how people don't rate Poch, he guided Spurs to one 2nd place and two 3rd place finishes in the premier league. Whilst spending almost nothing too. Great manager and unlucky not to win anything. Not sure how he'd perform under an incompetent United board but you could say the same for any manager. We aren't going anywhere until Woodward and the Glazers get out.

 

[Godfather]

These people know nothing about football.

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Sometimes I wonder whether these pundits even watch football.