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I agree with this. VDB makes some good runs in to space at the right time and not too far for Fred to pick out some easy passes forwards at the right time. It helps him get in to a rhythm and make some forward passes more often through the game and not only just to Bruno who could be anywhere or marked out.
We all know he has limitations but there seems to be a relationship between him being in the side when we perform well. He’s a very important player for us.
The two of them and Bruno have only played together as a trio two times, and they did well both times. Particularly against Sevilla last season where they dominated a highly rated opposition and were our three best players.
So you would be comparing him to someone who plays as DM and is further back the field in position, meaning that the opponents have less space to dribble past him? Smart...
I completely agree. I feel much more confident with him in the team, especially in away games.
Yes! I fecking love that analogy and I completely agree and I’d also say that AWB and DVB could eventually be added to that also.
Pretty sure he's fresh after having 12 hours rest.
Who are his peers then? I see him compared to Kante a lot. Guess who gets dribbled past much more often, intercepts the ball less and loses the ball more often? It’s not the player who is actually past his best.
Fred is a bit better on the ball, playing in tight spaces, but Kante is a level above defensively, that's for sure.
Funny how you've decided not to mention all stats where Fred is better than Kante, though. Like pressures? Fred is more efficient in tackling too. And as you've already conceded, he is operating further up the pitch, which is very visible in all defensive stats (as fbref split them in thirds of the pitch). It also makes a lot of sense for Fred to lose the ball more often since he is playing riskier passes (something that Kante doesn't have to do). Fred dribbles more, carries more and is the target of passes more than Kante. Which, overall, means that he is involved in build-up a lot more. He has more Shot Creating Actions both in total and, of course, per 90 (since he has played less games than Kante).
We were talking about defending so why would I focus on those other points?
He’s also better defensively. He’s just being used as an example because he didn’t like the comparison to Matic defensively. Who are his suitable peers?
So what players should he be compared to then? Sissoko? Wijnaldum? Is Fred this unique midfielder that isn’t defensive or attacking?
No, he doesn't. Kante tries more and has a success rate of 53% while Fred has 69%. Kante is more efficient in tackling dribblers only. Loses massively against Fred on pressures and is marginally better at blocks. And then Fred is superior in everything build-up related.
Well, if you compare him to Sissoko you will see that Fred is better at everything. Same against Wijnaldum. Have you even looked at stats before writing nonsense?
Depends on where you’re getting your stats perhaps. Whoscored show Fred with 6.1 attempted tackles per 90 with 3.1 successful. Kante is 3.5 attempted and 2.5 successful. Not sure what stat pressures is.
Except they don’t get dribbled past anywhere near as much. Which means their defence isn’t being run at as much with a midfielder taken out of the game. But that’s not the point I was making. I was asking who his peers are. Who are we allowed to compare him to since I wasn’t allowed to point out midfielders he was losing out to? Have you learned to read before writing nonsense?
Is "dribbled past" the key metric for you? Why do you even look at the other ones then? What about all other defensive metrics where Fred is massively better than both Sissoko (who plays in a team with a much more defensive structure) and Wijnaldum (who plays in a midfield 3)?
No but it’s an issue that just pointing out him winning tackles overlooks. And none of these stats can account for tracking runners etc which is just as big a part of defending as anything else. For me there is a reason that Fred is usually picked alongside another defensive midfielder. When he isn’t, like Tuesday night, we are horribly exposed defensively.
Rodri is asked to cover as a sole DM in a very, very attacking system. City commit many bodies in attack and are exposed on the counter. Similar to how Fred has suffered when asked to be the sole defensively-minded midfielder. That's an inherent trade-off of the tactical system. Not a slight on the player. Tell me which midfielder gets the job done alone?
The difference between him and Fernandinho was huge. No midfielder gets the job done alone, some do it better than others. I don’t believe Rodri is one of them. Or Fred.
Fernandinho also had many years to adapt to Premier League. Of course some do it better than others. That's what we've been discussing all along and in my opinion (backed by stats and "the eye test" for me) Fred is doing quite well, among the best in the league.
Players like Fernandinho, Fred, Kante only get the recognition after people realise what they can do.
this is it and the same people are coming on here week after week getting on his case after we’ve won games. far from a problem he’s one of our most important and effective players and some posters just can’t seem to get their heads around it. The stats back it up and the eye test has been backing it up since last season... what else can he do to win people over?
That trick which he did in the end to avoid press was just class. Clearly shows that he is becoming more and more confident and hopefully he keeps on improving like he has been over the last two years. Credit to Ole for making him adjust to this league and giving him confidence
The football community is such that he is only remembered for the 1st season Fred. Alot of rivals ridiculed the signing and have not seen what Fred does. Because he doesn't get the social media praise, alot of fans still think he is not that good.
Good Post mate
this lad is balls to the wall all action for 95mins every time. He may mess a pass up occasionally but he never hides and he’s putting himself about in ways other players simply can’t. He’s got a freakish engine. Tackles everything that can move relentlessly. Can hit a pass through the lines with either foot and isn’t afraid to take a risk. I would absolutely hate playing against him. He’s always there in your face or in your wing mirrors. One lose touch and the ball is gone and we are on the attack. The best thing about him is he’s not a dirty player he’s always playing right on the line. People never complain when he nips in and nicks the ball cleanly and scampers away. You just have to hold your hands up and get on with it. That takes serious timing skill and fitness to be able to do that over and over to top players.
Agreed, he isnt a nasty tackler sliding in or going over the top with his aggression. He is always nibbling at players which is very annoying to play against, he is almost making half fouls which puts players off balance. I have seen his interceptions get better this season, which means he starts attacks for us.
posters are starting to say that he and Bruno are the heartbeat of the team and I fully agree. First 2 names on the team sheet. You go into the Fred thread where people should be happy and they still just can’t see it with him. It’s a pity. People have defended Pogba’s half hearted performances here for years but can’t get fully behind someone who seems like a very hard worker and who actually betters his competition every week. Like it’s
Him and Bruno are completely the heartbeat of this new team. Fred has shown incredible tenacity during his stay with us after a tricky start, but even back then you could see glimpses of a quality player.
Yeah, but he doesn't press as well as Minamino
