FA to investigate Edinson Cavani | This thread is taking a break

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JohnnyKills

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I'll ignore everything that's been said before (for now).

A few posters who are from South America (at least one actually from Uruguay) have explained that in their language/culture, the word ISN'T racist.

I get that there are lots of things in the world that one country/culture finds acceptable and another doesn't. But can you not see that this case is different.. because the word isn't one you can literally translate and then guage that TRANSLATED word against Western culture?
But Cavani is now employed by a British club, so he has to adapt to our language and culture.
 

Zlatan 7

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I think you miss a big point, there isn't really a word that you can translate in any language to be literally racist, even the ones which were once used in the US like "negro" (in fact stolen from Latin America) but we won't get into that.
What made it a racist term as like "coloured" in the US and UK and now "urban" in some context now in the UK was the context around it and the culture, not the words specifically.

The context being it is now culturally unacceptable in Western Culture to refer to someone by their race, no matter what word you use.

The word black in English is not a racist term, but if I refer to someone who is black as "Hey black" there will be a problem in the UK, this isn't a language issue as really its more a cultural one which shows the cultural differences between Western culture and Latin American.
Describing features and race is prevalent in their language and widely accepted in their culture.
Focusing on the actual word used misses this nuance.

With all that said, I don't believe we can expect Cavani to know all of this as someone who has hardly lived in the UK or US, but I'm sure he will probably not post something like that on social media again. Also its not for one culture to preach to another what is right or wrong.
Good post
 

Sandikan

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People used to sneer at Michael Owen and the ilk for being bland when they played.

But they were actually the sensible ones. Not giving even the slightest chance of any word or action being misconstrued.
These days it must be a lot more difficult though as there's a million outlets instantly reporting everything you say and a million people to offend.
 

Paxi

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Oh Caf never change.
 

Revan

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Context is everything, but that goes both ways.

On the one hand, apparently it's an acceptable term of endearment in Uruguay* and he pretty clearly used it in that context. He wasn't using it to intentionally abuse or belittle a black person. He's not Suarez, who used unambiguously racial language to abuse a black man. On the other hand, he's not in Uruguay now. He lives and works in the UK, represents an English club (and by extension, English football) and with that comes an expectatation to respect British cultural norms, one of which is "it's not acceptable to use racial epithets". I don't think that, as a very well-travelled guy who has lived in 3 different European countries and who likely followed the Suarez incident more closely than most, he can reasonably claim to be ignorant of the connotations of the word he used and the potential for offence/harm.

Which is all to say, he only has himself to blame if he gets a ban. Clearly what he's done is not at all comparable to what Suarez did, so it would chafe it he received anywhere near the same punishment, but Suarez got off ludicrously lightly all things considered. I wouldn't be surprised or feel aggrieved if he got 2-3 games.

* I would be interested to hear how Black Uruguayans/Black Latin Americans generally feel about that, however, because aside from the people in here defending Cavani, and those who came out to defend Suarez back in the day (when they were lying about what he said), I've seen no evidence that the term has been shorn of its racial connotations or meaning.
An old can of worns, but it can be argued both ways. Thing is, there was really no proof that Suarez actually racially abused Evra. Suarez said that he said 'Per que negro' (why matey) which in itself is not offensive. Evra I believe said that Suarez told him 'Porque eros negro' (because you are black).

United fans decided to believe Evra, Liverpool fans decided to believe Suarez, FA did an investigation and essentially believed Evra's events and banned Suarez. As far as I know, there were no witnesses who confirmed either side of the events.

So, while there is a good chance that Suarez really racially abused Evra, in which case he really got lightly punished, there is also some chance that Evra (who speaks Spanish, but it is not his native language) misunderstood the sentence, which makes Suarez the victim on this. Considering the context (not really friends and being rivals), and the inconsistency on Suarez and Kuyt testimonies, I tend to believe Evra's side of events, but who knows what really happened.

Either case, has nothing to do with Cavani, who thanked a (white) fan by using the word 'negrito'.
 

Sandikan

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I'll ignore everything that's been said before (for now).

A few posters who are from South America (at least one actually from Uruguay) have explained that in their language/culture, the word ISN'T racist.

I get that there are lots of things in the world that one country/culture finds acceptable and another doesn't. But can you not see that this case is different.. because the word isn't one you can literally translate and then guage that TRANSLATED word against Western culture?
You go by the country that you're in.
It's a defence of sorts but it doesn't wash anymore than punching someone in the face and saying that's how you act with your mates.
 

Revan

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This is a very English-centric viewpoint. The word 'negro' meaning black in Spanish is not intended as a marker for black inferiority - that is only the case in English.

Stop using it in English, sure. But demanding the Spanish change their language to accomodate English? This is why people accuse you of British Imperialism.

In Hungarian, black is 'fekete'. Is that OK with you, or should we stop using it and find something else?
Sounds like faggot. You fecking racist homophobic cnut!
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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Hmmmm, weren’t you the one threatening to report people for “lying about you” earlier?










Frankly I think Sammsky owes Marcos a sincere apology or Marcos, as the injured party, should be able to decide what the punishment is.
3 match ban I reckon
 

sammsky1

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To be fair to him, he’s been quoted a lot, I almost feel bad for him.
No I’m all good.

Just amused reading all these old geezers unspooling because they are having their white supremacy toys being taken away from them.

Same happened during BLM, Churchill status’s and will continue every time an event that exposes them until finally we have removed all such cruches.

Law is on my side its all good for me.
 

Sandikan

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An old can of worns, but it can be argued both ways. Thing is, there was really no proof that Suarez actually racially abused Evra. Suarez said that he said 'Per que negro' (why matey) which in itself is not offensive. Evra I believe said that Suarez told him 'Porque eros negro' (because you are black).
Hang on are you saying that negro can mean matey as well as black?
 

The Mitcher

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What people need to realise is that that what Sammsky is demanding is not "imperialism" it is just radical left wing language policing.
 

The Mitcher

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But Cavani is now employed by a British club, so he has to adapt to our language and culture.
This was on the internet, not in the streets of Manchester, talking to a fellow Uruguayan that he apparently knew. How is this anything to do with Britain? He was using an American site for starters.
 

christinaa

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No I’m all good.

Just amused reading all these old geezers unspooling because they are having their white supremacy toys being taken away from them.

Same happened during BLM, Churchill status’s and will continue every time an event that exposes them until finally we have removed them all.

its all good for me.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

You're so funny! We're having a good time.

Leave him post to his heart's content!! :lol:
 
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I think you miss a big point, there isn't really a word that you can translate in any language to be literally racist, even the ones which were once used in the US like "negro" (in fact stolen from Latin America) but we won't get into that.
What made it a racist term as like "coloured" in the US and UK and now "urban" in some context now in the UK was the context around it and the culture, not the words specifically.

The context being it is now culturally unacceptable in Western Culture to refer to someone by their race, no matter what word you use.

The word black in English is not a racist term, but if I refer to someone who is black as "Hey black" there will be a problem in the UK, this isn't a language issue as really its more a cultural one which shows the cultural differences between Western culture and Latin American.
Describing features and race is prevalent in their language and widely accepted in their culture.
Focusing on the actual word used misses this nuance, equally, there could be an issue if he used the term "chinito"

With all that said, I don't believe we can expect Cavani to know all of this as someone who has hardly lived in the UK or US, but I'm sure he will probably not post something like that on social media again. Also its not for one culture to preach to another what is right or wrong.
He just happens to be playing in a UK based league which has UK based rules and guidelines.
I don't know where to start on that so I'll just say no and move on.
 

christinaa

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He's a Uruguayan that for all we know was using a phone purchased in Uruguay, on the South American app version of Instagram, talking to his mate in Uruguay in its native language over Uruguayan servers. He has to adapt to feck all.
.......and it seems that his friend is white after all.

Can i say white ?! :D
 

cyberman

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He's a Uruguayan that for all we know was using a phone purchased in Uruguay, on the South American app version of Instagram, talking to his mate in Uruguay in its native language over Uruguayan servers. He has to adapt to feck all.
.. Playing for a club on the American Stock Exchange..
 

Sultan

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So many pages of circular arguments and worse insults being thrown about with each other in this thread than actually is the case with Edinson.

Much of this must be judged on the context and tone of the remark. The equation is not applicable to Suarez in this case. The fact Suarez used the term negrito during a heated game with fierce rivals and with a player he had no history of friendship was telling.
 

harrington

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Not sure why you quote me saying this? As in I clearly did not write what you quoted me as writing in that message.
Apologies. I must've quoted a post of yours quoting someone else and, in editing it down in the reply box to pick out the bit I wanted to address, ascribed it to you in error. (Checking back, the quote should've been credited to Zlatan 7.)
 

Marcosdeto

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So many pages of circular arguments and worse insults being thrown about in this thread than actually is the case with Edinson.

Much of this must be judged on the context and tone of the remark. The equation is not applicable with Suarez in this case. The fact that he used the term negrito during a heated game with fierce rivals and with a player he had no history of friendship was telling.
that's exactly what differenciates Suarez action from Cavani's
is all about context and intent
 

DoomSlayer

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My god, I haven't laughed so much in a while, this thread has been amazing. :lol:

I haven't seen a better roasting since the "Roast of Charlie Sheen", @sammsky1 definitely played a brilliant part in self-imploding, as usual. But then he somehow went even further and reached new peaks of turmoil.

A thread for the classics, no doubt, with all the countless anecdotes and funny multicultural information. I've read through most of it and it has been a ride. Shout out to my SA brothers @antohan and @Marcosdeto, I feel your pain lads, but thanks for the insight and pure entertainment that this shitstorm has brought. :D
 
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