Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match

[Paul_Scholes18]

I find it insane how this can stop a bloody game over simple words.
Could report it after if someone is offensive which happens in many games.

Of course the fact it is a ref saying it is terrible though, but I feel people might put them into insane standards.
They get to take so much shit and heated words from fans and players so if they say something back it might not be the end of the world.

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Not a defence, but a reflection of my own words when describing people.
“Negro” in Latin languages is simply black, now I don’t know the context... from what I’ve read here he said “that black one” that is very inappropriate and disrespectful.

It has made me think of me and how often I’ll refer to strangers I meet as “a black guy” or “ some Chinese guy I chatted to while waiting at the bus stop” etc granted to me there’s a huge difference to saying “that black one” but it has made me wonder if my own way of talking is wrong.

Credit to the unity shown by both clubs for walking.

 

[TrustInOle]

It's still a tactless way to refer to someone, especially in a professional setting. Shouldn't get away with it just because it's done a lot in Romania. It was probably done a lot here once too.

He shouldn't, but he also shouldn't be labelled rascist in this case. If anything there should be more scrutiny on whichever federation trains and employs people to have more of an educated world view.

 

[UweBein]

Black in Romanian is negru, not a clue how its pronounced.

It seems the ref was identifying the assistant coach and described him as such.

Could be misunderstanding bc if he called him n-word his career is over.

Doesn’t matter - as Demba Ba points out you do not have to mention it at all.

 

[UweBein]

He shouldn't, but he also shouldn't be labelled rascist in this case. If anything there should be more scrutiny on whichever federation trains and employs people to have more of an educated world view.

What?! That’s textbook racism.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Doesn’t matter - as Demba Ba points out you do not have to mention it at all.

Ok, so there is a white guy, a Chinese guy, a black guy and an Indian and you have to point one out, what do you say? And why do you say it?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Ooh I love riddles

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Ooh I love riddles

You expected a Paddy Irish man joke, with a bar involved didn't u . Such a raciest.

 

[calodo2003]

I think this is going a step to far, You can describe people as white, blonde hair, ginger hair, dark hair, tall, short, but call someone black? Were going to far here, as long as its not derogatory I don't see the problem. Should he have said "the not Caucasian" guy? Again, racism is being derogatory, being factful isn't.

You need to be as objective as possible as an official, you don’t want to give any side a perceived advantage or disadvantage. Using language like this brings subjectivity squarely in play.

One cannot manage or interact with subordinates in such a manner in many locations on this planet, the officials are tasked with managing the match, the players are under their purview for a period of time. It’s not difficult or even a task to comport yourself in a businesslike manner for such a short period of time.

 

[Acheron]

So if the 4th official didn't know his name or number or other personal information, how should he have referred to Pierre Webo?

He could refer to him by indicating his position not his skin color. At best is contemptuous and rude to refer someone you don't know like that in what should be a formal and professional environment.

 

[TrustInOle]

What?! That’s textbook racism.

If he has said something that is not considered derogatory in his country and he knows no better, then surely it's about how he is trained to handle situations like this in the wider world? Considering the occupation.

 

[Vidic_In_Moscow]

The sooner we sack, fine, imprison and force re-educate people in camps for making the wrong sounds that come out of their mouth in even the most innocuous of situations the sooner we will be living in paradise.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

You need to be as objective as possible as an official, you don’t want to give any side a perceived advantage or disadvantage. Using language like this brings subjectivity squarely in play.

One cannot manage or interact with subordinates in such a manner in many locations on this planet, the officials are tasked with managing the match, the players are under their purview for a period of time. It’s not difficult or even a task to comport yourself in a businesslike manner for such a short period of time.

I don't agree and doing so only softens what is termed as racism. A white guy is a white guy, a black guy is a black guy, a Chinese guy is a Chinese guy .... or woman, this is not racism.

 

[Synco]

I’m guessing that most UEFA officials must get some kind of training on this stuff surely (I.e. what is and isn’t appropriate language whilst working)?

Would surprise me if they didn't. In which case the refs maybe thought they can have a little off protocol chat there.

(Keeping in mind the "in black" explanation, as one user claimed, whatever its likeliness.)

 

[Doracle]

As a professional and a match official he would rightly be punished. What I'm curious though is whether or not the match could've been salvaged if he'd just owned up and apologized.

He hasn’t done anything wrong though, if all he did was use a descriptive term so that the ref knew who to send off. It’s not racist to use colour as an identifier without any pejorative intent.

 

[RedTiger]

Ok, so there is a white guy, a Chinese guy, a black guy and an Indian and you have to point one out, what do you say? And why do you say it?

I'd use the shirt number they're wearing as an identifier.

 

[Foritfied]

Ok, so there is a white guy, a Chinese guy, a black guy and an Indian and you have to point one out, what do you say? And why do you say it?

That guy there *points with finger*

Why do I say it? Because I don't believe I need to reduce someone's identity to their skin colour.

 

[always_hoping]

Any chance that one or both of these teams are thrown out of the competition?

 

[TrustInOle]

Any chance that one or both of these teams are thrown out of the competition?

Fitting username

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I'd use the shirt number they're wearing as an identifier.

And if you don't see the number?

 

[always_hoping]

Fitting username

Is that trust running out after tonight?

 

[TrustInOle]

Is that trust running out after tonight?

Wrong thread but nope.

 

[Peyroteo]

Would be extremely unfair if the guy's career is ruined over this. If he had used a derogatory word then he should never ref again but if he didn't and there was no ill intent then it's completely different.

 

[SilentWitness]

And if you don't see the number?

I’d hope that the officials were professional enough to know players and staff of the teams they were officiating. If not then they’re not up to standard for a CL level game.

+

No need to call him the black guy.

+

Using a word in your own language which is so close to the racist term used against black people is pure ignorance and stupid especially after the Cavani incident last week.

 

[Ole'sattheWheel]

Come to a country with mostly black people. Its the only thing you will be referred as.


Edit.... Well I can't speak for all black majority countries but it happens everyday where I live. "give this to the white man"

"yow white boy, your order is ready"


"excuse me sir, the white lady over there is calling you"

I'm very pale (Irish) and when I was in Siciliy ~ 10 years ago I noticed I was referred to as by a certain word quite often in restaurants etc by the natives, I remember looking it up at the time and finding out it meant "pale person" or "ghost" - some loose translation like that.

My Italian was and still is very poor but from what I gathered it would be in situations like:

"Whose gelato is this?"
"The pale white guy and his woman"

I did find it quite rude to be honest, to be referred to by my pale skin so flippantly like that, especially with the "and his woman" part: like she is some accessory of mine.

At the time I begrudgingly chalked it down to just cultural/linguistics/whatever but it did leave a sour taste in my mouth.

I can't imagine how the Istanbul coach felt, after everything that has happened this year, for someone to do that.

Whether or not the official was in the right, as we become more global this is a conversation that needs to happen

 

[UweBein]

Ok, so there is a white guy, a Chinese guy, a black guy and an Indian and you have to point one out, what do you say? And why do you say it?

Are they all naked? Aren‘t there other ways to segregate them?

Use their names, ffs. Use eye contact, point with the hand if you need, too. So, many possibilities

 

[Chipper]

And if you don't see the number?

There wasn't one was there? He's part of the coaching staff.

 

[UweBein]

He hasn’t done anything wrong though, if all he did was use a descriptive term so that the ref knew who to send off. It’s not racist to use colour as an identifier without any pejorative intent.

It actually is. Go educate yourself!

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I’d hope that the officials were professional enough to know players and staff of the teams they were officiating. If not then they’re not up to standard for a CL level game.

You get a very different view of a match on TV than you do on the pitch, come on.

 

[UncleBob]

I said earlier he needs to be fired, but a lengthy ban at the very least. Multiple years.

What?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

There wasn't one was there? He's part of the coaching staff.

Ok, so no identifier, what should he have said?

 

[SilentWitness]

You get a very different view of a match on TV than you do on the pitch, come on.

What does this even mean? You’re excusing the inexcusable for what reason exactly?

 

[UncleBob]

I’d hope that the officials were professional enough to know players and staff of the teams they were officiating. If not then they’re not up to standard for a CL level game.

+

No need to call him the black guy.

+

Using a word in your own language which is so close to the racist term used against black people is pure ignorance and stupid especially after the Cavani incident last week.

How on earth will they know the names of all the people on the staff?

 

[calodo2003]

What?

The fourth official. Said he needed to be fired, but a multi year ban might also be appropriate. Ignorant unprofessionalism like he displayed can’t go unpunished.

 

[Peyroteo]

I’d hope that the officials were professional enough to know players and staff of the teams they were officiating. If not then they’re not up to standard for a CL level game.

Knowing the names of the staff you're reffing isn't a requirement anywhere. I don't think any ref in the world does that.

In their own league they'd have more awareness of who is who but in international games it's less likely

 

[SilentWitness]

How on earth will they know the names of all the people on the staff?

By being a well prepared official that does their research prior to a game?

 

[ChaddyP]

Was the Romanian/Spanish languages interpretation of black taken from the English racist word? If so...this opens up a whole can of worms on the languages themselves...?

The racist word originated in about the 18th century. Spanish language is at least ah thousand years old.

 

[RedTiger]

And if you don't see the number?

In that case I'd say the bud bud ding ding over there. How do linesmen officiating an international match between 2 ethnically similar teams do it when they can't see the shirt number?

 

[klsv]

So an UEFA official working at a CL match in Paris, is excused for saying "that black one", because he didn't know the name of an assistant manager of one of the teams, who as a player had nearly 60 caps for his country and 200+ apps in La Liga...but the players and the staff should know how things are said in Romanian and the dude wanted to kill himself 12 years ago.

 

[Chipper]

Ok, so no identifier, what should he have said?

Well I already got in trouble for my answer earlier in the thread but I'm largely with you.

There's also a post a couple of pages back that shows everyone on the bench was dressed the same or at least very similar indeed.