That’s not true at all. If you look at the start of the season and go through his performances there were many really good performances that season, Leicester at home first game, Burnley away shortly after, Newcastle at home which saved Jose’s job etc off the top of my head. All you’re doing is proving the point that’s been drip fed into your brain by the media, that Pogbas been far worse than he actually has.Even that season when he played as a 10, he only performed for 3 months. The rest of the months were shocking, he only scored 2 league goals in 3 months of football and those two were penalties, surprisingly players voted him in PFA TOTY based on 3 months performance. His problem been inconsistency. He only show 3 or 4 months period of consistency in 10 months.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
Totally agree and that's the main issue. His price tag lifts expectations really high. Not his fault we decide to pay that amount of money, though, but everyone expected more.
He is very rated among most managers, btw. A lot of managers say that a midfield duo of Busquets + Pogba (both on top form) would be a dream come true.
The biggest problem with Pogba's time at United has been injuries.
Has it feck. The biggest problem with Pogbas time at United has been his mouth.
That was the season when he played in more advanced role under Ole with Fred/Herrera, Scott or Matic. The red square showed you how dreadful his form while he only performed in end of december to February. That could be the reason why he wasn’t used in a position that closer to attack because Ole gave him chance and he didn’t perform.
How is it similar to Bruno? How can people still don’t realise the difference? Bruno at least showed you that he doesn’t just perform for 3 months in a season. He played with Matic, Fred no Herrera and still performing. No excuse for Pogba not performing in those red square. Bruno is a type of player that will give you 6 or 7 months top performance out of 10 while Pogba will give you 3 or 4 months top performance out of 10.
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Pogba and his FC made so many excuses - injuries, out of position, "no love", defensive football, no DM, toxicity, "Mou is a baad manager!", etc etc. #talktothehand
What else?
It's all bs, attempts to hide the fact that he's not good enough to be a top player whom you can count on consistently from the season start to the finish line. He's streaky and slacky. I put him in the same category of Martial and Rashford - they're streaky as hell, way inconsistent. Their purple patches at best once per season for few months will fool people into thinking they're the right deal and are improving, going to be top players. Surely by now, we should already get this. Seriously how long is Martial going to be a potential? Until his 28 y.o.? Tbh, I would even dare put them in the same category as Nani, he's similarly inconsistent and streaky but Fergie is that good, I remember only one season when Nani is amazingly consistent, but that didn't last at the end of the season iirc. Point is Fergie doesn't always play Nani to the dismay of Nani FC at that time.
Having 3 streaky players in our best 11 is just not sustainable especially since they're more on the attacking department. I guess one of our ex-manager is right in constantly swapping the two of them with each other, depending on form. Our common struggles in attacking and finishing before and even after Bruno (he saved us multiple times already) easily reflect this.
Agreed.
Romanticism of idea that "Pogba is amazing".
That's false - for a player of his quality you are expecting far, far greater consistency than what he shows. The fact some posters (not you here) need to point to national form (which is based on flurries of 3-4 games) than actual sustained league consistency points to the actual problem we've had. He's great in form for short bursts but struggles for stretches after.
We have him for god knows how long now, but I would like to see him stretch out decent form for at least one month now, and I fear even that might be asking too much.
There was a string of performances against Wolves, Burnley and West Ham that stretched over a couple of seasons. They had to have been some of the worst performances he's had since re-signing. Any kind of industrious midfield which made a concerted effort to take him out of the game, he folded like a castle made out of origami.
We’ll see. I’d point out the whole team has been and continues to be consistent, with only Bruno from higher up the pitch, getting consistent numbers albeit still with inconsistent performances. At some point hopefully the whole club/team gets it’s act together...it will be without Pogba which is fine, but it won’t happen because we see him go.
Has been the fans.
We don't need to see - we have had Pogba for 3 years or so, and he hasn't been consistent in a single one. His best season with Manchester United was during Ole's caretaker role where 3/4s of his goals and assists came in a 2 month period (think Dec into Jan against predominantly bottom half table sides, skewed more towards OT).
For what it's worth I don't think he was wasn't massively consistent for Juve either. This is a chronic issue with the player regarding club form, he's just hot and cold too much to be deemed "world class".
The fans, his managers, his team mates, the formations, his position, his agent. What else?
The biggest problem Paul Pogba has is himself. He's not been good enough. Period. Let's stop finding excuses for him.
Potentially it’s all of the above...
The real issue here is that Pogba is not a world class player, and won’t ever be. But many fans, and his agent think he is.
he can still be a very good player, and if we judged him on that, rather than the hype around him, most would be happier.
talented player, but doesn’t have the on pitch discipline and consistency that’s needed. In 4 years, no one knows where to play Himalayan get the best out of him, and for him to contribute to the team.
The real issue here is that Pogba is not a world class player, and won’t ever be. But many fans, and his agent think he is.
he can still be a very good player, and if we judged him on that, rather than the hype around him, most would be happier.
talented player, but doesn’t have the on pitch discipline and consistency that’s needed. In 4 years, no one knows where to play Himalayan get the best out of him, and for him to contribute to the team.
Whilst I agree with the overall point, it's premature to make that assessment about Bruno (wait till he has been here for more than 3 years), from what I remember Pogbas first season was pretty good.
The main difference I see is when Bruno isn't playing well he still comes up with a goal/assist (and shows commitment/busts a gut) but I don't think he is as consistent a performer as people are making out. If he was in a non goalscoring role maybe he would be viewed differently
Yep, ones that think he’s bigger than the club.
All of that is true though. I have said from day one, people overrate Pogba, his managers at United have overrated, his teammates have generally not been good enough to do their own job, let alone cover for Pogba's own flaws, he can't play all positions/roles at a top level and his agent keep selling Pogba as an all time great.
I will always go back to what I said before United sign him, people will expect more than they should. Pogba has done what I expected, he was never worth a world record fee and should have never been judged on that because it was a poor decision from the club. Pogba has always been inconsistent and he has never been the main cog in a midfield.
So basically he's not good enough?
I'm stating to get concerned he'll still be here in January.
He is good enough but he isn't better than very good and he is inconsistent. There is a middle ground between not the best player in the world and not good enough, some of you seem to really struggle with that idea.
So he's good but not better than very very good and inconsistent. Would you want him starting in our midfield then? Just curious because if you say yes then standards have clearly fallen from the quality of midfielders we have had when we were where we want to be. Title winning midfielders have always been very good and consistent. Consistent and good at the very least.
That's what I was getting at but he obviously didn't understand.
Bruno's had plenty of stinkers similar to what Pogba gets criticised for, but he's made up for it with a last minute penalty or grabbing a late assist.
I've already seen fans start to turn on Bruno and say he isn't good enough - it won't be long before they start giving him the Pogba treatment too.
The main difference's are Pogba has publically stated he wants to leave so obviously people treat him differently, it is what it is.
Pogba clearly does have world class talent, just not world class consistency. Perhaps being a big heavy guy his stamina and concentration levels just aren't quite enough for 90 minutes in the PL
Would you want him starting in our midfield?
It depends on our midfield options, on the balance of our midfield, the qualities/weaknesses of the other players and form. I didn't want Pogba at United in 2016 because in my opinion he wasn't what we needed, Pogba has always been a secondary player in his roles, he is a secondary playmaker and a secondary "defender" in midfield, if you don't have the primary playmakers/defenders then I don't want Pogba in my midfield because there is no role that he can occupy with consistency.
Have the standards fallen?
Which standards are we talking about? Sir Bobby Charlton was considerably better than Robbo who was himself better than almost everyone that followed him bar maybe Keane. Football has changed, there is a larger emphasis on complementarity and collective strength than individual prowesses. Also United place in football has changed since SAF retired. You shouldn't judge a player based on nostalgia but on what is on offer today.
Title winning midfielders?
Pogba has won titles and been good enough for CL contenders like Juventus or World Cup champions like France. The issue isn't Pogba in isolation but the entire team since 2013, we have been unbalanced and inconsistent with and without Pogba, collectively we haven't been a title winning team while Pogba has been contending for titles within other teams. The reality is that few players are actually consistent, most of the time they are inconsistent but it doesn't matter because the team as a whole is able to cover and compensate, that's probably the biggest problem at United since 2013, the club's results rely entirely on 1 or 2 players being consistent instead of relying on 14-15 players artificially providing consistency. That's why SAF had that many strikers or why we had at the same time Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves and Fletcher in 2008 in our prime. Not being a guaranteed starter in a great team doesn't mean that you are not good enough, would you say that Butt and Scholes weren't good enough in 97-00, would you say that for Fletcher and Carrick?
Now the fact that Pogba isn't one of these consistent player, is why he was never a world record fee and why the club shouldn't lose sleep on the idea of losing him. While he can be valuable in a balanced team, his absence doesn't make or break the team.
It’s not an excuse. Grow up, youre free to disagree.
No the ones who decided on his return that he would never be taken to. The ones I see home and away that were giving him grief and the cold shoulder very early on his return when he was getting off the team bus or warming up etc.
So why are you saying you want to see him maintain his form? What’s the purpose of that sentence when you then respond with ‘we don’t need to see’ what a pointless discussion
Also in addition, I’ll make the point again...the club needs to sort itself out. I’m sure in your world the minute Pogba leaves everything is fine. Reality is that nothing will change because none of our issues since SAF retired have been Pogbas fault.
The issue here is that people are making excuses of Pogba.
When Pogba plays in double pivot, people are making excuses that he can't play there. Well, like what you said there, his first season was ''pretty good'' and he played in that double pivot so there shouldn't be excuse of Pogba not performing in double pivot if he can show ''pretty good'' performance. And To be fair, ''pretty good'' is bit too stretched out because he didn't shine at all in the games against top 6.
When Pogba plays more advanced role in 18/19, he only performed 3-4 months.
It's so contrast to Bruno. People don't make excuses whether Bruno should play double pivot or he should play in advanced role or he needs better players around him.
I'm just stating my expectation of him which is to better his consistency. But I think that's a different point to what we've seen thus far, which is he's not been consistent enough at all and its got feck all to do with any media spin.
No one is remotely suggesting that the club is suddenly fine when Pogba leaves. This is a Pogba performance thread, and there is a debate solely around his individual impact on the team over the course of his time here.
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The single biggest problem with Pogba's tenure at United is people's incorrect expectations of the type of player he is. There is the Paul Pogba where everyone looks at his attributes and thinks what he should/could be and there is the actual Paul Pogba. He is a player that can do a bit of everything well but not specialist in any one skill bar long passes.
People look at him and think he should be Gerrard but he is not. He likes to dwell on the ball more and almost plays the style of much smaller lightweight players who don't rely on physique. Then people claim if you play him advanced he'd be Lampard, Toure and score loads of goals but he won't. Then there have been Zidane comparisons but surely if he was that player he would play that role for France (team managed by Zidanes teammate) yet they do not build the team around him in nor play him in this advanced role.
I don't personally know what his best position is and I doubt he does. If we stop judging him based off the lofty standards of the players named then it may help understand him better as he will not live up to this as its not his game. He is better as a support player rather than the player to build around IMO
People look at him and think he should be Gerrard but he is not. He likes to dwell on the ball more and almost plays the style of much smaller lightweight players who don't rely on physique. Then people claim if you play him advanced he'd be Lampard, Toure and score loads of goals but he won't. Then there have been Zidane comparisons but surely if he was that player he would play that role for France (team managed by Zidanes teammate) yet they do not build the team around him in nor play him in this advanced role.
I don't personally know what his best position is and I doubt he does. If we stop judging him based off the lofty standards of the players named then it may help understand him better as he will not live up to this as its not his game. He is better as a support player rather than the player to build around IMO
Same boring old shit. Yeah, it’s everyone else’s fault, gullible to the end.This is what the problem has actually been. It's the acceptance of reality, both from Pogba and our fanbase.
Pogba isn't world class, he wasn't world class at Juventus either. The idea was that he could become world class with the obvious skills he had (as he was producing well at that age). He always lacked the work rate, defensive awareness, first touch ( the quick touch), decision making, concentration and anticipation; which made him flashy in highlights, but really meant that he could produce moments of magic rather than dominate a game. Since then, he still hasn't developed those skills, and for me, having those skills make a player consistent, and more importantly able to play well in a fast paced league like the Premier League is. Having a midfield that can move the ball quickly and be first to the second ball are the main ingredients to success in the Premier League, particularly in away games, both of which Pogba does not provide.
The problem has been that Pogba has bought into his own hype. He believes he is world class, which can be good. But this has meant that instead of seeking to further develop his game in areas he is lacking, he sees his game as almost perfect and has chosen not to take the next step due to pride. I personally feel this was Jose's biggest problem with him.
The fans also have this problem as his weaknesses are more positional and mental than physical or technical, so they are harder to spot during a game. These are the attributes that make a Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Fabregas different from a Shelvey, Charlie Adam or Ward-Prowse. Pogba his enough physical and technical attributes to be deemed superior to the bottom group, but not being able to use it consistently effectively in the league ensures that despite having a combination of physical and technical attributes superior to even the top group, he has and will always be behind them.
The main reason he didn't sustain that level was because Ole switched back to a 4231 in 19/20 for some reason and had him playing in a pivot behind Lingard and co.
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He's scoring tonight.
Top scorer and assister but no credit for it, no wonder he feels unappreciated. If Herrera got those figures he's be lauded yet he's the one who ran and took the bag from PSG
That pretty much sums up most fans views, honestly to say we are concerned he will stay beyond January says everything.
Never disliked a current first team player as much in my time supporting United, he's got amazing ability but he chooses to be a selfish player over and over again. We've given this guy the benefit of the doubt so many times, we've brought in players to take the weight of responsibility off his shoulders yet he still hasn't proven to be good enough.
Left hand side, right hand side, holding midfielder, attacking midfielder, he's played everywhere and all he's proven is he thinks he's a far better player than he actually is. The best of Pogba is shown for France, his ego believes he's bigger than a football club and that can't be the case with your nation otherwise you never get picked.
So basically he tows the line with them, holds his position and does what we expect of him at United, yet never see. Simple passing, simple teamwork and control of the football.
Not a liability who costs countless goals week in week out.
In his time withe the great United youth team, he had the luxury
Ravel did all the creating and was a fabulous player
Ryan Tunnicliffe did all the defensive work and running ( he was a combinataion of a 6 and 8, I'm surprised he never made it here)
Which left Paul to run around in midfiled without any specific resposibility
He has the same with the French National Team ( Kanta and Matoudido all the work and defending) andd all paul has to o ois release Griezman and Mbappe with the occasional long ball, or the long shot.
Do we have the same sort of supporting palyers, do we want to play that way or should we cut our losses?
Ravel did all the creating and was a fabulous player
Ryan Tunnicliffe did all the defensive work and running ( he was a combinataion of a 6 and 8, I'm surprised he never made it here)
Which left Paul to run around in midfiled without any specific resposibility
He has the same with the French National Team ( Kanta and Matoudido all the work and defending) andd all paul has to o ois release Griezman and Mbappe with the occasional long ball, or the long shot.
Do we have the same sort of supporting palyers, do we want to play that way or should we cut our losses?
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