The UK is "different" to Europe...but is it "better"?

[Brwned]

In any given year you'll find many examples of the differences between the UK and the rest of Europe, often highlighted as a point of pride. In the last year there have been obviously some particularly striking examples, starting with the withdrawal from the EU, moving onto the UK taking a different approach to managing the pandemic in March, ending with the finalisation of Brexit.

The UK government have started this year again drawing the contrast by celebrating the fact they're winning the vaccine race over their European "friends". So while there's no shortage of similarities, there were plenty of differences to emphasise over the last 12 months.

So I wondered, if you see the UK as (substantially) different, do you see the UK as better? "Better" based on whatever criteria you use to judge a country's overall contribution to the world, to their members, whatever's important to you.

I was just thinking about it as I read this, and whether it resonates more broadly:

Britain, christened not long ago by a pro-Brexit lawmaker as “Treasure Island” for the riches it offers, earned another moniker on Monday as a new variant of the coronavirus ripped through the country and set off blockades at its borders: Plague Island.

Kelly Merris, who is originally from Australia, said that talking to family and friends there made it clear just how much more recklessly Britain had handled the virus.

“I think the rest of the world looks at us and shakes their head,” said Ms. Merris, who had long ago canceled plans to return to Australia over Christmas. “It’s not a very nice thought to be on a plague island, and that other countries don’t want you.”

Her husband, Aaron McDonald, who is also Australian, said British exceptionalism had taken on a different meaning during the pandemic.

“The U.K. often sees itself as slightly different from the rest of the world and continental Europe,” he said. “Now we’ve distinguished ourselves in a not very good way. It’s very disappointing.”

 

[sullydnl]

Er, are people who aren't from the UK allowed to answer? Because I think I know what they'll say.

 

[cafecillos]

It's not even that different. Are the UK and France more different than Spain and Sweden?

 

[Brwned]

Er, are people who aren't from the UK allowed to answer? Because I think I know what they'll say.

The more the merrier!

 

[Siorac]

Any comparison like that is meaningless: 'Europe' is not a monolith. It includes both Moldova and Luxembourg, the Champs-Élysées and Ukrainian villages.

There are things that the UK does better than some European countries and there are things it does worse. One thing is definitely true though, at least in my opinion: it's not as different and special as the cheerleaders of British exceptionalism would want you to believe.

 

[VorZakone]

Better intelligence agencies.

 

[oates]

Every country within Europe seems to me to be 'different' and regions within countries different to their neighbours, some have different expertise in varying industries. I think some British see themselves as special, and thus, the country but it is no more special than anywhere else in the World to my mind.

 

[Spoony]

UK is like Ireland minus those bizarre traffic lights...why wouldn't you have amber????!

 

[Simbo]

Always thought were were the exact same as the French for example. Both a both of arrogant tw*ts.

 

[JPRouve]

Move the thread in the general and we will tell you the truth.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Politicians posturing...

that’s all.

personally, I’m not going to celebrate doing Covid better than someone else, or indeed react the other way, because so another country is doing it better. The league tables of deaths is a particular distraction.

I think we should however be proud of the development of the vaccine - clearly it’s a worldwide effort, but we should celebrate those successes, but not in a way to say we are better than another country...

 

[Abizzz]

My mom bought one of those quotes signs for her new house, it reads: Remember you're special, just like everyone else.

No country is better or worse than any other country per se.

 

[RedRoach]

Seems pretty illogical to compare the UK to the whole of Europe. Northern European countries are completing different to southern.

Nevertheless I lived 12 years in the UK (Brighton) and now 11 in Spain. Each country has its pros and cons.

The weather is straight up bad in the UK, the food expensive and sub standard. It is extremely expensive in terms of the cost of living and society is less welcoming. There are weird laws and customs in place around taking kids to bars (it was crazy to me you could take a dog but not a kid to some bars).

On the plus side people are more culturally diverse and society more advanced on issues like racism, sexuality etc . The multi cultural mix and history in terms of arts, music and film is what I miss the most as is the sense of humor.

TV and the entertainment arts are way better in the UK.
In terms of food I liked the diversity of restaurant options but the overall quality is way lower and expensive.

On balance way prefer the quality of life in Spain.

 

[Vooon]

It's a very subjective question, and I'd say you'd have to look at it country wise and not Europe as a whole. Inside some countries even regions.

I've been to the UK, and Scotland in particular, a lot the last five years and really enjoy absolutely everything about it. Friendly, great scenery mostly, interesting culture and history. But if I compare it to Norway there's absolutely no way I'd consider UK a better country. I used to want to move over to work, but those plans have been shelved for good probably. Mainly because of the current political leadership and Brexit. I also think it's worrying how big of a problem poverty is, and how visible it is when you start noticing the people who pass you by in the streets and the state of some housing areas. You don't really see anything similar in Norway. At least no where near the scale.

Compared to other countries I've spent considerable time I'd rate it above countries like France and Belgium though. But I find countries like Denmark, Germany and Iceland way more appealing if I had to move abroad.

 

[Buster15]

Wow. What a massive generalisation. The UK, 4 different countries.
And Europe which has far more different countries, depending on where you draw the boundaries.
I have nothing against national pride. And as I have previously mentioned, I am a proud Englishman.
And national differences are great and to be celebrated, especially in such a globalised world.

There is no doubt in my mind that each of the 4 home nations are affected by an island mentality. And our history, both old and recent has an effect on our thinking.
But the same is therefore true about our European friends.

 

[sullydnl]

No, the UK isn't better than the rest of Europe. Only weird British exceptionalism would lead anyone to believe it is. It has some strong points compared to some countries, it has some weak points compared to others.

The most notable difference between them and other European countries as a block is a degree of euroscepticism so severe that they ultimately left the EU. Which (as most on this site would agree) is a negative.

Beyond that I'm not sure which aspects of the UK are definitively different to the rest of Europe, or at least more different than any other European country is to the rest of Europe. In terms of negatives you could point to overt nationalism, repeatedly voting for right-wing parties, a political class centred around the elite/wealthy and an inept government. I'm not sure you could argue that the rest of Europe is free of those ills though. And in terms of positives there are many ways life in the UK is better than life in various European countries. Even with COVID, I'm quite sure there are other European countries with a far more negative attitude towards vaccinations, for example. But that hold true for other parts of Europe too.

Maybe that aforementioned exceptionalism is another difference? It would certainly seem to relate to the examples in the OP. Perhaps that does exist to a greater extent in the UK, or manifests itself in a more abrasive way. Or perhaps not.

Plus talking about the UK being different to the rest of Europe ignores the differences between different countries within the UK. Is England's relationship to the rest of Europe the same as Scotland's?

 

[Hammerfell]

My mom bought one of those quotes signs for her new house, it reads: Remember you're special, just like everyone else.

No country is better or worse than any other country per se.

Very live, laugh, love.

 

[JPRouve]

It's a bit of tangent but kind of answers your question. Everywhere I have been there are things that I like and very few that I actually dislike. I don't rate countries or people, I don't really know how to do that.

 

[Gehrman]

All European countries are different. It's not like exiting the EU suddenly doesn't make the UK a part of Europe either.

 

[rcoobc]

You look at the food the average working-class Brit eats. It can be so bad

Pasta looks nice.

Does any other european country eat this badly.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

In any given year you'll find many examples of the differences between the UK and the rest of Europe, often highlighted as a point of pride. In the last year there have been obviously some particularly striking examples, starting with the withdrawal from the EU, moving onto the UK taking a different approach to managing the pandemic in March, ending with the finalisation of Brexit.

The UK government have started this year again drawing the contrast by celebrating the fact they're winning the vaccine race over their European "friends". So while there's no shortage of similarities, there were plenty of differences to emphasise over the last 12 months.

So I wondered, if you see the UK as (substantially) different, do you see the UK as better? "Better" based on whatever criteria you use to judge a country's overall contribution to the world, to their members, whatever's important to you.

I was just thinking about it as I read this, and whether it resonates more broadly:

So produced by a non-British company but celebrating approving it first and using the incorrect reason that it was because they left the EU, does that explain why the EU approved the Moderna vaccine two days before the UK?
The government is an embarrassment for the UK but represent the country and thus is giving it a poor image.

The UK population see the UK through the UK media's version/propaganda - the rest of the world don't.

 

[oates]

Wow. What a massive generalisation. The UK, 4 different countries.
And Europe which has far more different countries, depending on where you draw the boundaries.
I have nothing against national pride. And as I have previously mentioned, I am a proud Englishman.
And national differences are great and to be celebrated, especially in such a globalised world.

There is no doubt in my mind that each of the 4 home nations are affected by an island mentality. And our history, both old and recent has an effect on our thinking.
But the same is therefore true about our European friends.

I always struggle to understand what there is about being born or brought up in a country there is to be proud of. Not ashamed either although in recent times a bit disappointed with some, but not the country. Can you explain what being a Proud Englishman is proud of just out of interest, not criticism?

 

[Snowjoe]

I always struggle to understand what there is about being born or brought up in a country there is to be proud of. Not ashamed either although in recent times a bit disappointed with some, but not the country. Can you explain what being a Proud Englishman is proud of just out of interest, not criticism?

I’ve always wondered that especially the more I travelled, I have about as much in common with many places in the UK as I do with Madrid so not sure why I’d be proud of something that’s happened in say Hull

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Ajr]

My 2000th post and I am wasting it posting on this stupid thread

 

[oates]

I’ve always wondered that especially the more I travelled, I have about as much in common with many places in the UK as I do with Madrid so not sure why I’d be proud of something that’s happened in say Hull

I think maybe that is the commonality, personally as I grew up I just wanted to be away from home and my parents probably felt the same because they allowed me to put my pack on my back and waved me off from the ferry terminal every possible holiday since I was 14. I had the confidence if not the language skills to get on a train in the morning and get off in another country and still manage to communicate a bit with other people and at the end of it find that we weren't very different.

 

[Grinner]

Well it's sadly becoming more like the US so in ten years time the answer to this question will be very easy to answer.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Everyone has to come from somewhere right, so why not be proud of where you come from if it makes you a lot happier in life? Also you can enjoy thread after thread full of people who don't live here saying how insignificant we are while simultaneously getting very angry about everything we do that is different for some reason.

Hopefully the space created politically by leaving the EU can let the rest of Europe do its thing without mithering us about it and relations can improve on both sides without that irritation.

 

[George Owen]

I once read that one difference between England and Germany, is that English people/society, relies/trusts on the government/authorities to take care of them, to make the best decisions for their people, so that's why English people don't (or didn't) need (ed) to be smart chaps. They trust (blindly?) everything gonna be alright because authorities (royalty?) will take care of it (and historically speaking, that used to be the case).

While in Germany, people is raised to be much more inquisitive, independent and "smart", because governments might not always gonna be there for you.

So that's why, the person with the lowest paying jobs in England, for example, let's say, a shop clerk, won't be the brightest around, and would barely know to do the minimum. A simpleton (because that was enough to have a good life).

While the same shop clerk in Germany, will know at least 2 languages and be the smartest person all around.

Judging by current events (Brexit, buying into propaganda, going the US route) and personal experience that sounds spot on.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I once read that one difference between England and Germany, is that English people/society, relies/trusts on the government/authorities to take care of them, to make the best decisions for their people, so that's why English people don't (or didn't) need (ed) to be smart chaps. They trust (blindly?) everything gonna be alright because authorities (royalty?) will take care of it (and historically speaking, that used to be the case).

While in Germany, people is raised to be much more inquisitive, independent and "smart", because governments might not always gonna be there for you.

So that's why, the person with the lowest paying jobs in England, for example, let's say, a shop clerk, won't be the brightest around, and would barely know to do the minimum. A simpleton (because that was enough to have a good life).

While the same shop clerk in Germany, will know at least 2 languages and be the smartest person all around.

Judging by current events (Brexit, buying into propaganda, going the US route) and personal experience that sounds spot on.

Sounds like total horseshit.

 

[oates]

I once read that one difference between England and Germany, is that English people/society, relies/trusts on the government/authorities to take care of them, to make the best decisions for their people, so that's why English people don't (or didn't) need (ed) to be smart chaps. They trust (blindly?) everything gonna be alright because authorities (royalty?) will take care of it (and historically speaking, that used to be the case).

While in Germany, people is raised to be much more inquisitive, independent and "smart", because governments might not always gonna be there for you.

So that's why, the person with the lowest paying jobs in England, for example, let's say, a shop clerk, won't be the brightest around, and would barely know to do the minimum. A simpleton (because that was enough to have a good life).

While the same shop clerk in Germany, will know at least 2 languages and be the smartest person all around.

Judging by current events (Brexit, buying into propaganda, going the US route) and personal experience that sounds spot on.

Maybe the first part could be true-ish up to 60 years ago but I don't know enough about Germany to say that it was ever true. Scandinavians probably.

 

[africanspur]

I once read that one difference between England and Germany, is that English people/society, relies/trusts on the government/authorities to take care of them, to make the best decisions for their people, so that's why English people don't (or didn't) need (ed) to be smart chaps. They trust (blindly?) everything gonna be alright because authorities (royalty?) will take care of it (and historically speaking, that used to be the case).

While in Germany, people is raised to be much more inquisitive, independent and "smart", because governments might not always gonna be there for you.

So that's why, the person with the lowest paying jobs in England, for example, let's say, a shop clerk, won't be the brightest around, and would barely know to do the minimum. A simpleton (because that was enough to have a good life).

While the same shop clerk in Germany, will know at least 2 languages and be the smartest person all around.

Judging by current events (Brexit, buying into propaganda, going the US route) and personal experience that sounds spot on.

Funnily enough, I was having a conversation with a German just last week who had literally the polar opposite view. That the Germans are far more trusting of their government and look to their government far more to solve problems than the British do, who are inherently more distrustful of 'big government', especially since the days of Thatcher and look more to civil society to solve their issues, rather than their government.

Also a massive over-simplification.

There's some things the UK is better than other European countries at and there's some things the French or Spanish or Italians or Poles are better than the others at. Fundamentally, I don't think there's that much difference really.

 

[JPRouve]

Funnily enough, I was having a conversation with a German just last week who had literally the polar opposite view. That the Germans are far more trusting of their government and look to their government far more to solve problems than the British do, who are inherently more distrustful of 'big government', especially since the days of Thatcher and look more to civil society to solve their issues, rather than their government.

Also a massive over-simplification.

There's some things the UK is better than other European countries at and there's some things the French or Spanish or Italians or Poles are better than the others at. Fundamentally, I don't think there's that much difference really.

We are better at complaining and hating everything. We also don't trust politicians, ever.

 

[africanspur]

We are better at complaining and hating everything. We also don't trust politicians, ever.

No arguments there. And Parisians especially....Eugh.

Incidentally during this same conversation, another person said they saw France and the UK as being basically the same. Just the French are...fancier. Which is not a view point I'd ever considered before.

 

[Dante]

I once read that one difference between England and Germany, is that English people/society, relies/trusts on the government/authorities to take care of them, to make the best decisions for their people, so that's why English people don't (or didn't) need (ed) to be smart chaps. They trust (blindly?) everything gonna be alright because authorities (royalty?) will take care of it (and historically speaking, that used to be the case).

While in Germany, people is raised to be much more inquisitive, independent and "smart", because governments might not always gonna be there for you.

So that's why, the person with the lowest paying jobs in England, for example, let's say, a shop clerk, won't be the brightest around, and would barely know to do the minimum. A simpleton (because that was enough to have a good life).

While the same shop clerk in Germany, will know at least 2 languages and be the smartest person all around.

Judging by current events (Brexit, buying into propaganda, going the US route) and personal experience that sounds spot on.

If any of that were true, Brits would have all worn masks and followed government social distancing guidelines during the pandemic.

They didn't.

 

[Sweet Square]

While the same shop clerk in Germany, will know at least 2 languages and be the smartest person all around.

This is very true tbh. Everyone in Germany can speak both West and East German.

Incredibly smart group of people.

This is a joke

 

[JPRouve]

No arguments there. And Parisians especially....Eugh.

Incidentally during this same conversation, another person said they saw France and the UK as being basically the same. Just the French are...fancier. Which is not a view point I'd ever considered before.

I almost totally agree. The difference being that the french seems to be perpetually depressed while the british have a bit more sense of humour and can make fun of their "misery". The weird thing being that neither countries should feel bad but we do. On a side note I really feel bad about brexit for that reason, the UK and France should be the closest countries in the world, we have the same history, have experienced the same things, we have the same size, our economies have the same size and we are not that far culturally but we both love to be miserable on our own.

 

[horsechoker]

It's called GREAT Britain for a reason

 

[Paul the Wolf]

It's called GREAT Britain for a reason

Because Johnson abandoned Northern Ireland to fulfil the dream, it used to be called the UK.

 

[Gambit]

You look at the food the average working-class Brit eats. It can be so bad

Pasta looks nice.

Does any other european country eat this badly.

? That's never a working class kids diet. No way you get that many slices of ham in a working class sandwich, and not enough Pot noodles and beans on toast.