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Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Does he though? This season i think i have seen the phrase "individual brilliance" mentioned more times than i have seen in my life. Besides, unless he does some really clever tactical move i think its a bit weird to praise a manager for an individual game.
10, 20, 30, 40 games? Sure, but hes not on the pitch so after hes done the preparations and selected his 11 its pretty limited what he really can do
Thats the most dramatic strawman i have seen in my lifeAnd just to be clear here, the manager has the responsibility for how the team does. But you have to look at a big picture. He cant be a genius one week and then a clueless twat the next one, but thats what you get when you try to judge him game by game and its just nonsensical
Jose finished second with us too, but it was clear to everyone from the quality of the football that he wouldn't be able to bridge that gap.
I am looking at big picture. Not our current position on table. Then and there he does something good (he is not bad in playing on a draw which is good for some games) but in general he is average manager and it is wrong and bad for club to go with him in another season.Does he though? This season i think i have seen the phrase "individual brilliance" mentioned more times than i have seen in my life. Besides, unless he does some really clever tactical move i think its a bit weird to praise a manager for an individual game.
10, 20, 30, 40 games? Sure, but hes not on the pitch so after hes done the preparations and selected his 11 its pretty limited what he really can do
And just to be clear here, the manager has the responsibility for how the team does. But you have to look at a big picture. He cant be a genius one week and then a clueless twat the next one, but thats what you get when you try to judge him game by game and its just nonsensical
Are you kidding (about bolded part)? Manager during a game can do a lot. A lot. Change players, change positions of players and change style and formation. And all that in right time. It is called reading a game.
While it is true that before the season started , most people would have been happy with a 2nd place finish, you also have to put things into context.
The reality is that Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, looked closer to midtable teams than like top 4 teams, that Livepool has injury issues and struggles and Manchester City also underperformed for a longer period. The 2nd place is not anything to celebrate about to be honest, especially when considering how the standard should be for the biggest club in the world.
The reality is also that we are out of the CL already, that we hadn't more than 3 games where we played like a top team and won convincingly. I feel like 90% of the games looked exactly like todays game which is not acceptable in my opinion.
I also don't see much progress to be honest. Our offence is worse ( I know we scored more goals) , our defence is worse. I prefer the performances of last years 2nd half of the season.
The reality is that Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, looked closer to midtable teams than like top 4 teams, that Livepool has injury issues and struggles and Manchester City also underperformed for a longer period. The 2nd place is not anything to celebrate about to be honest, especially when considering how the standard should be for the biggest club in the world.
The reality is also that we are out of the CL already, that we hadn't more than 3 games where we played like a top team and won convincingly. I feel like 90% of the games looked exactly like todays game which is not acceptable in my opinion.
I also don't see much progress to be honest. Our offence is worse ( I know we scored more goals) , our defence is worse. I prefer the performances of last years 2nd half of the season.
Unless we have a disastrous end to the season. I think he will get the last year of his contract. What worries me is if he still does that and they extend his contract. If he gets Top 4 they will be happy, I would then let him have his last year. If we flop out of the CL again, then that would be it for me. If that happens again it proves he has learnt nothing. If he cannot work out how to beat low block sides, especially when I imagine he has the ear of the greatest manager ever, then we will be going nowhere.
Today's inability to break down WBA has to be on him. We looked completely devoid of ideas on what to do. Never looked like scoring second half. Even our goal with a moment of brilliance from Bruno more than anything else.
WBA didn't struggle at all to get a point from us tonight. They were actually closer to win it than us, which is baffling when you think about it.
I think Ole has grown into the role a lot more than earlier in his stent here and while this season has been good, our reaction to getting to the top of the league and and going from first with clear 3 points at the top to being 7 points away from it while playing one game more than City (so potentially 10 points gab) really, I mean really puts ton of questions on his ability to ever be a title winning manager, which is ultimately the target.
WBA didn't struggle at all to get a point from us tonight. They were actually closer to win it than us, which is baffling when you think about it.
I think Ole has grown into the role a lot more than earlier in his stent here and while this season has been good, our reaction to getting to the top of the league and and going from first with clear 3 points at the top to being 7 points away from it while playing one game more than City (so potentially 10 points gab) really, I mean really puts ton of questions on his ability to ever be a title winning manager, which is ultimately the target.
Fair enough, you can certainly argue you’re consistent in your support.
I’ve noticed some of your other posts regarding expectations, and it’s not unreasonable that you’ve brought this up as a reminder that we are probably performing better than expected, certainly on the results department overall.
I just think it doesn’t help the cause when you consider things like the CL crash and burn, the semi-final bottle jobs, top of the table drop off. These do influence expectations irrespective of the set objective last season. It’s the boom/bust cycle we seem to go through, it inherently feels unsustainable long term.
I’ve been way harsher on him than was probably warranted, but I am far from convinced that he is the right guy to lead the team to glory. Just shy of every game is a scrap to the final second, you’d expect a decent number of comfortable results at this point for a top 4 team. I still don’t see much coaching beyond “give it to Bruno, and persisting with certain underperformers & the late subs issue is incredibly frustrating. We can all point to Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester but City have taken advantage and we haven’t. One of those teams has been hampered by injuries and the other cost a fraction of ours.
Unfortunately we’re in a position where the board don’t fully back us, so we need a top manager, and indeed coaching team, to give us the best chance with the players.
It’s never gonna happen but it would be interesting to see what was possible if we did have a better set of coaches behind him, rather than the mates club currently there. To a degree, you could say Ferguson was the man manager, who knew the right people to surround himself with for the football side of things.
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We will extend his contract in a month or two. I have no doubt about it.
He is Ed's project. My opinion about Ole is one thing but i have no doubts that he will be here this season and next
Wouldn't you think if we stuggle against teams who play a low block, he would look at teams who do not struggle and see how they do it. It is as though someone will do something brilliant and we will win in the end. When if we just sussed them out, we might actually put ourselves in a strong position in the first place.
If they do that, then they will need to splash the cash. Otherwise I cannot see us progressing and might even get worse. He will definitely need that CB, would just be like us to chose the one with the worst possible injury record, also a RW, but it would also be like us to hope Amad is the answer to save money. DM is also vital to me.
He needs a better set of coaches around him to drill players into being able to deal with low blokes. At the moment we're a one man team, we give the ball to Bruno or Shaw and see what they can do on their. I can live with him being tactically limited only if we bring on a good set of experienced assistant coaches to do the job.
At the moment we'll keep on flip flopping depending entirely on Bruno's form.
I agree. He has surrounded himself with a comfort blanket. He need top class coaches round him or it is just like a bunch of mates coaching the local factory team.
I am scared of him with money in hands tbh. I would rather save that budget for new manager to decide on who to spend
Funny thing is I don't think he has made bad signing, if they were actually coached properly.
Agreed I think spending big under Ole can set us back a lot.
Already feel we have done poorly in the market apart from Bruno.
AWB and Maguire are alright too, but I think for the money spent you can get better.
A lot of the problems we have is that the team is disorganised. Nobody seems to know what they should be doing and that is down to Ole. Do agree that our negotiating team is atrocious though. They are not bad signings at the right price, except we didn't pay the right price.
I agree that his signings are ok(ish). But only that. Ok and nothing else (except Bruno). But also most of them are like Lukaku/Matic signings. Good for one manager's vision and not good for next manager.
Imagine that we decide to hire attacking manager. How he will play his system with fb who can't control the ball or play high line with slowest defender in the world. And what to say about James, eh?
Yeah I think the negotating team has been terrible post SAF. Have we had any hidden gems at all or getting someone for cheap?
I think Shaw has probably turned out to be the best buy of the lot in terms of value even with his injuries.
I was a fan of DVB, but not sure he was what we needed. Spent a lot on him to be a bench player.
I guess we got Cavani for free, but his wages are probably very high.
I say Mourinho and Ole both have done alright in the market, but they buy players suited for maybe not the ideal style that we want to see from a title winning manager.
LVG and Moyes did worst given that they went for players with a different style to the one they played.
Think Donny would work with pass and move players round him, unfortunately Scott and Fred are not that and the forwards just stand about. We just pass sideways and backwards. I feel I have been saying that for years with different managers and different players.
Yeah it's high time that he made a stance on this in the Newcastle presser but we all know he won't because he hasn't got it in him to go in on our biggest rivals manager which is another reason he isn't right for this club
To me the players should stand up for themselves more during a game, rather than moaning after it. It's too late then.
Please provide some evidence where I have gone after every supporter who has criticised Ole? The thread you made was a joke as many who posted in it thought. You make WUM statements stating this is not semi amateur football to a manager who is 2nd in the PL. You go after Ole personally not his managerial faults. You have an agenda on here and it’s plain to see.
So contradictory, what was it, last week? when he said we shouldn't be considered title challengers, before that he said we were the hunters, now he says we're not going to settle for 2nd. Such mixed messages.
Words that lack conviction from someone with no direction.
Feel like we’ve hit our ceiling under him. I don’t think he’s got what it takes to sustain a league challenge.
Yeah not progressing any further but don't know why I am wasting my breath saying it because we are cheapo FC and will roll out the same excuse that he hasn't got all the players he wants yet but that line is getting boring and predictable
He’ll come good once he gets a new CB to partner his £80m man.
I think he wants a striker too. Someone who is willing to break his nose in the box. Cavani is good but not Zlatan good. If we get a striker as good as Zlatan I promise you we will finish second comfortably next season. Then maybe win the league the season after when we buy another CB to partner the new CB.
Too many individual players have hit dramatically low dips in form under him, for it to be a coincidence.
In fact, it perfectly mirrors the dramatically low dips in form we've seen as a team under him.
In fact, it perfectly mirrors the dramatically low dips in form we've seen as a team under him.
But our start last season was pretty much a sackable offence.
The bit that really disappoints me after this poor run is that after finishing on 81 points in 2018, we then took 66 points in 2019 & 66 points again in 2020.
This season we looked like taking the kind of strides our spending and patience deserves, but right now we’re on course for 73 points and unlike last season our form is heading in the opposite direction for the finish. Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see a third season not even achieving a measly 70 fecking points
That’s a fecking horrific showing.He has become stubborn fc and it is hurting us he cannot see himself making the same mistakes so many times
There’s plenty moan about in terms of Ole’s tactics, but top of the list for me is playing both Fred and McTominay against poor sides.
They’re really not that much of a shield in front of our CBs and Fred offers nothing in the final third.
They’re really not that much of a shield in front of our CBs and Fred offers nothing in the final third.
His lack of trust towards squad player is worrying. It's clear to see he doesn't trust james, mata or even vdb. I can give him benefit of doubt for not playing Bailly today as he was just coming back from another injury but the way he continues to play rashford every game is worrying and then we have martial who is reaching lowest of low level. I don't know what will change from now till the end of season and we suddenly again start winning the game convincingly.
Newcastle is Ole's first real test.
He'll have a great opportunity to bench some of the underperformers and give those that play well vs Sociedad a run of games.
If I see another lineup with Martial LW, Rashford RW, Lindelof & De Gea, I'll be malding.
We already know he can't make changes during a game, if he can't do it at such an opportune moment either, he'll never take us anywhere.
Would not mind a change in system either. 442 or 532. It's not like our strikers are doing much anyway.
He'll have a great opportunity to bench some of the underperformers and give those that play well vs Sociedad a run of games.
If I see another lineup with Martial LW, Rashford RW, Lindelof & De Gea, I'll be malding.
We already know he can't make changes during a game, if he can't do it at such an opportune moment either, he'll never take us anywhere.
Would not mind a change in system either. 442 or 532. It's not like our strikers are doing much anyway.
They might get a look in on Thursday but then knowing Ole's lack of trust in them I wouldn't hold your breath
Getting the right players is important granted but we don’t have any real patterns of play, even teams with far inferior players seem more well drilled than us, which is more on the coaches than it is the players. He’s been here for years over 2 years now, we should be seeing more than just quick counter attacks, individual magic & waiting on opposition mistakes.
I admire you still being part of Ole FC but this mindset that everything is going to be fixed by signing these players is so floored, we have seen enough in these two and a half years to show he is all about purple patches
Our passive starts have become way too prominent recently.
Also , and this is something I feel like I've typed out numerous times now, we need to attack on the front foot but also defend (on the front foot). I accept the criticism levelled at Maguire and Lindelof recently but the majority of the time most opposition attacks could have been stopped way before the ball has reached our box. The pressing from our players is far too casual and at times totally non-existent. The goal we conceded today ? laughable yet oh so familiar.
Also , and this is something I feel like I've typed out numerous times now, we need to attack on the front foot but also defend (on the front foot). I accept the criticism levelled at Maguire and Lindelof recently but the majority of the time most opposition attacks could have been stopped way before the ball has reached our box. The pressing from our players is far too casual and at times totally non-existent. The goal we conceded today ? laughable yet oh so familiar.
I’m trying something new. No one listens to me when I’m negative... so I’m going to push Ole FC until Woodward finally sacks him.
He needs a RB to deliver like Shaw to put it on Cavani’s head. Seriously aswell. The formula would work.
If we don't win a trophy this season then he should be sacked. It's HIS team, his tactics, he has no more excuses anymore.
Regardless If we finish 2nd or not, we finished 2nd under Mourinho yet that was no progress according to some United fans I heard at the time so what's the difference here with Ole?
LVG and Mourinho both won trophies in their 2nd season at the club, Ole is near finishing a 3rd season and we haven't even got to a final yet. Ole shouldn't be any differently judged then the rest, it's not good enough still right now
Regardless If we finish 2nd or not, we finished 2nd under Mourinho yet that was no progress according to some United fans I heard at the time so what's the difference here with Ole?
LVG and Mourinho both won trophies in their 2nd season at the club, Ole is near finishing a 3rd season and we haven't even got to a final yet. Ole shouldn't be any differently judged then the rest, it's not good enough still right now
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