[ivaldo]

thats a well-timed screenshot, It happened for a dfraction of a second and he should definitely gets himself in a better fefensive position. He was in by far the best position and simply lost an easy challenge... like 100 times before, actually the number is way bigger. The amount of excuses for Lindelof is annoying. People are just brainless, challenges like this there is plenty, he was lucky we didnt concede from another header where he lost his player too in the first half and on another counter where he wasnt close neough to their striker who had a dangerous shot on goal. He´s an absolute liability form the first minute he played for us. He can have a good run of game swhere he doesn´t feck up anything but he´s very passive , same way ddg, however hes got no superpowers to compensate for it at least. Weakest defedner we ever had,mentally as well. If he plays again Ole should be sacked too, that´s pure ignorance, don´t remember when a palyer singlehandedly cost us so many points, the last few seasons.

Feel free to watch the clip then, because you get to see the elbow in the back of head that proceeded it. Not that we need any other evidence to confirm its a foul. Bloody hell. Even Sourness thought it was a foul.

I've already said I think Lindelof should have done better. I already said that he should be stronger, I've already said he had a poor game. It is possible to criticize his performance AND think it was a foul. Again, these aren't mutually exclusive things.

 

[Foxbatt]

When Maguire had "desire" it was a foul. When someone pinched your nose and covered your eyes it's being weak. That was a foul any day. But I agree that he should be stronger. I hate when defenders are weak. It should be thou shalt not pass.

 

[A-man]

When Maguire had "desire" it was a foul. When someone pinched your nose and covered your eyes it's being weak. That was a foul any day. But I agree that he should be stronger. I hate when defenders are weak. It should be thou shalt not pass.

To be fair you can always pass if you cheat by for example pushing the defender in the face. It’s hard to defend against.

 

[Denis79]

Agree, but I don’t think Lindelof want to be a squad player when he probably can be regular on a top team in Italy or Spain.

Hope he goes to Italy or Spain for his sake and ours.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

To be fair you can always pass if you cheat by for example pushing the defender in the face. It’s hard to defend against.

There was plenty more he could have done before the face push.

 

[A-man]

There was plenty more he could have done before the face push.

Yes now that we know that the ref allowed fouls like that he should obviously have done something different. But the only way the forward could reach the ball was by fouling him. Should a defender always act as if any kind of foul might be allowed? Never try to control the ball if the slightest pressure, instead always clear it?

This was not a tiny foul and it was a huge mistake by the ref that cost us points.

 

[ghaliboy]

I prefer Blind over him. At the very least, Blind passing and play making from deep are top class.

I prefer neither. They're both terrible one on one defenders and Blind couldn't defend without Smalling holding his hand the entire time. Trying to say passing was nice really makes little to no sense or impact on a defender if they cant defend.

 

[Kostov]

Just curious, do you actually think it is ok to push other players in the face or you make an exception in this case?

It actually happens frequently and sometimes players get down like being shot in the face, sometimes they go on and do their job, and sometimes they pussy out like Lindelof and do neither.

 

[Kostov]

Excellent, I'm happy you're a big time engineer who does things with electricity... I fail to see the relevance to what I said though?

Just a regular football watching fan here who doesn’t act like the expert telling who understands football and who does not. Point is you probably know feck all about football pal like many on here, don’t act like a smart ass just because not everyone is willing to find excuses for Lindelof being an average and weak CB. The nerve to actually talk shit like that speaks volumes about yourself.

 

[A-man]

It actually happens frequently and sometimes players get down like being shot in the face, sometimes they go on and do their job, and sometimes they pussy out like Lindelof and do neither.

The one who pussied out, as you so predictably called it, is the one who couldn’t fight the physical game but had to cheat and put fingers in to the opponent’s face.

I watch 5-6 PL matches per week and I’ve never seen a situation like this that wasn’t a foul. The only reason the goal stood is that the ref made a big mistake. Physical football, yes please. Fingers in to the eyes, biting, diving and other coward ways of playing, no thanks.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Yes now that we know that the ref allowed fouls like that he should obviously have done something different. But the only way the forward could reach the ball was by fouling him. Should a defender always act as if any kind of foul might be allowed? Never try to control the ball if the slightest pressure, instead always clear it?

This was not a tiny foul and it was a huge mistake by the ref that cost us points.

Why do you want Lindelöf to control the ball there?! He should be going to attack the thing.

The foul is the hand to the face, unless you think Diangana's actions before that are so strong they're preventing Lindelöf from doing anything!?

 

[A-man]

Why do you want Lindelöf to control the ball there?! He should be going to attack the thing.

The foul is the hand to the face, unless you think Diangana's actions before that are so strong they're preventing Lindelöf from doing anything!?

I didn’t say he wanted to control the ball, at least that’s not what I meant, but maybe I was unclear.
It looks as he is a bit stressed, which is natural in that situation, but that he has some kind of control and knows that the opponent can’t reach the ball. And without the foul, he wouldn’t have reached the ball. That’s how I see it.

What I meant with “controlling the ball” is that some defenders try to keep possession in most situations and some defenders prefer to clear the ball in more or less every situation. The latter normally don’t stay long in big clubs. Defender who try to keep possession will protect the ball and they can not run around and think that maybe today, the ref will allow the forward to foul me, I’d better clear the ball. Instead they protect the ball, and assume that the ref is doing his job.

 

[golden_blunder]

I didn’t say he wanted to control the ball, at least that’s not what I meant, but maybe I was unclear.
It looks as he is a bit stressed, which is natural in that situation, but that he has some kind of control and knows that the opponent can’t reach the ball. And without the foul, he wouldn’t have reached the ball. That’s how I see it.

What I meant with “controlling the ball” is that some defenders try to keep possession in most situations and some defenders prefer to clear the ball in more or less every situation. The latter normally don’t stay long in big clubs. Defender who try to keep possession will protect the ball and they can not run around and think that maybe today, the ref will allow the forward to foul me, I’d better clear the ball. Instead they protect the ball, and assume that the ref is doing his job.

You have just described one of his main failings, he’d rather try and grapple than go and clear the ball. I think it was against Southampton earlier in the season where he lost out physically too. Just go and clear the feckin ball

 

[Foxbatt]

I think the other issue was that we did not protest enough for the ref to look at VAR. Did the VAR look at it seriously? Also it was Jon Moss on the VAR and I do not expect him to over turn it.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I didn’t say he wanted to control the ball, at least that’s not what I meant, but maybe I was unclear.
It looks as he is a bit stressed, which is natural in that situation, but that he has some kind of control and knows that the opponent can’t reach the ball. And without the foul, he wouldn’t have reached the ball. That’s how I see it.

What I meant with “controlling the ball” is that some defenders try to keep possession in most situations and some defenders prefer to clear the ball in more or less every situation. The latter normally don’t stay long in big clubs. Defender who try to keep possession will protect the ball and they can not run around and think that maybe today, the ref will allow the forward to foul me, I’d better clear the ball. Instead they protect the ball, and assume that the ref is doing his job.

Ah right, my apologies for the misinterpretation...

I think the bold is a dangerous game though if that's the case, because you can't predict how the player behind you will move or attempt to get the ball. Even without the hand in the face Diangana still heads that ball... And without the hand to the face I think very few people will be claiming a foul, as pressure in the back of a player who isn't attempting to head the ball isn't generally seen as a foul (which is why everyone thought Maguires goal the other week was wrongly disallowed)

 

[Foxbatt]

In my opinion he waited for the ball. Players should always expect to be fouled and that sometimes opponents are going to get away with it. I remember Martial going for a defensive header in a recent game and getting clobbered. Lindelof should have gone for it before the WBA player headed it. Lindelof was also goal side of him.

 

[Shane88]

Proper defender attacks that ball and Diagne gets nowhere near it. It's a routine clearance.

Victor, delicate little flower that he is, backs away, waits for the ball to come to him and ducks letting the striker overpower him.

 

[Raven]

Just a regular football watching fan here who doesn’t act like the expert telling who understands football and who does not. Point is you probably know feck all about football pal like many on here, don’t act like a smart ass just because not everyone is willing to find excuses for Lindelof being an average and weak CB. The nerve to actually talk shit like that speaks volumes about yourself.

You can have a look back maybe a page or so where I said neither him or Maguire are good enough, that doesn't alter the fact that this was one of the most blatant fouls you'll come across and the goal shouldn't have stood. It's perfectly alright to think he's not good enough, like me, but what's happening here is that you either don't have a clue what constitutes a foul or you're allowing your dislike for the player cloud your opinion.

 

[Red_toad]

When Maguire had "desire" it was a foul. When someone pinched your nose and covered your eyes it's being weak. That was a foul any day. But I agree that he should be stronger. I hate when defenders are weak. It should be thou shalt not pass.

Maybe he should have been weaker and thrown himself onto the ground and rolled around complaining about being poked in the eyes?
To be honest he was in front of the attacker for the ball and ‘should’ not have allowed to get to the ball first. I’d say Lindelof is certainly showing Ole that he needs to look at upgrading his defensive options this coming summer. Botman, Konate, Kabak, Torres, Milenkovic White and Varane have all been linked, let’s see what comes of it.
I‘d say we’re 4 players from being a really good team who can challenge for the title. Ole is going to have to be backed by the owners and look for value in the market, there are numerous players running down their contracts who their clubs will seek to sell this summer.

 

[mav_9me]

Foul or not, he's a luxury defender who isn't suitable for the PL. Not big enough, not strong enough, not fast enough, and doesn't make up for this with any other attributes. Anyone who thought he was a better CB than Maguire is insane.

As simple as that.

Maybe he should have been weaker and thrown himself onto the ground and rolled around complaining about being poked in the eyes?
[B/] To be honest he was in front of the attacker for the ball and ‘should’ not have allowed to get to the ball first.[/B] I’d say Lindelof is certainly showing Ole that he needs to look at upgrading his defensive options this coming summer. Botman, Konate, Kabak, Torres, Milenkovic White and Varane have all been linked, let’s see what comes of it.
I‘d say we’re 4 players from being a really good team who can challenge for the title. Ole is going to have to be backed by the owners and look for value in the market, there are numerous players running down their contracts who their clubs will seek to sell this summer.

Thing is Diagne was behind Lindelof but somehow figured out the flight of the ball before Lindelof. And then Lindelof should have held him off and never let him in front of him. It was after Diagne got in front or in the process of getting in front that he put his hand on his face. That's where the weak part comes.

And that's always going to be the case for him in EPL. So he is never going to be good enough for us.

 

[A-man]

You have just described one of his main failings, he’d rather try and grapple than go and clear the ball. I think it was against Southampton earlier in the season where he lost out physically too. Just go and clear the feckin ball

Yea he failed to defend, but as most people have noted it was because the forward was allowed to foul.

Could be he lost a ball due to physical battle against Southampton. That would make it two times then and probably more times just like everybody else. It’s quite common and part of PL football, we saw also Maguire and Shaw lose physical battles in the last game. However the goals we conceded against Southampton were a free kick and a corner, but maybe he lost a ball.

 

[A-man]

Ah right, my apologies for the misinterpretation...

I think the bold is a dangerous game though if that's the case, because you can't predict how the player behind you will move or attempt to get the ball. Even without the hand in the face Diangana still heads that ball... And without the hand to the face I think very few people will be claiming a foul, as pressure in the back of a player who isn't attempting to head the ball isn't generally seen as a foul (which is why everyone thought Maguires goal the other week was wrongly disallowed)

Yes agree that it is dangerous. In this specific situation; He was probably about to clear it, and tried to shield it until he could clear it (ball took a little weird way). That’s my guess at least. In more general, all four at the back try to control the ball rather than clear it. Sometimes in absurdum and we lose possession but hopefully we win overall by doing this.

 

[Kostov]

The one who pussied out, as you so predictably called it, is the one who couldn’t fight the physical game but had to cheat and put fingers in to the opponent’s face.

I watch 5-6 PL matches per week and I’ve never seen a situation like this that wasn’t a foul. The only reason the goal stood is that the ref made a big mistake. Physical football, yes please. Fingers in to the eyes, biting, diving and other coward ways of playing, no thanks.

If it was as blatant as you say, VAR would have probably checked it and Lindelof would have protested. I don't watch 5-6 PL matches nowadays as you do, but sincerely think that I've seen many situations like that one, where no foul was given despite palm in the face or raised elbow. And that last part give another point in the discussion, biting, diving and coward ways of playing have been part of the PL for some time now, and we have all been used to it, this instance with the goal could have been avoided if Lindelof just attacked the cross and cleared it.

We've had some appalling decisions against us this season, like the one with Lamela and Martial for example, this one, I feel was not one of them.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Feel free to watch the clip then, because you get to see the elbow in the back of head that proceeded it. Not that we need any other evidence to confirm its a foul. Bloody hell. Even Sourness thought it was a foul.

I've already said I think Lindelof should have done better. I already said that he should be stronger, I've already said he had a poor game. It is possible to criticize his performance AND think it was a foul. Again, these aren't mutually exclusive things.

Maybe I am harsh but again EPL is a physical league with the foul threshold being higher thean anywhere but this is not the only situation where he got outmuscled, in fact it happens in every game and we just concede for fun with him in the side because of his weakness, he has to know he has to do much better using the same things which are used against him if he´s not exactly a strong player. Foul is not an excuse, even in this game he let the same player head the ball and take a dangerous shot which could mean us being 0:3 down. I mean people are trying to prove it´s not his mistake but at the same time he makes many more mistakes. But just because we don´t concede form them peopl edon´t talk about them.

I also struggle to see why and when this forum became a fandom of certainl player vs the great good and success of our football club. It is just clear to see, we are never gonna win anything with Lindelof. We are not Arsenal to acommodate mediocre players.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

I think they're both around the same level and that level isn't good enough.

around the same level, and do you watch our games? Do you see the amount of tackles Maguire win, the amount of headers Maguire wins over lindelof and his courage to take the ball forward while being under pressure rather than, the amoutn of mistakes ? Maguire is also a better passer, even though Lindelof has a good pass in him, he rather pass 5m, and on the heels usually, which reminds me of smalling but looks composed yeah so people don´t notice. If you played footy you would know how annyouing it is ehwn somebody underhits passes pass and pass again, while playing to your heels all the time..

the ratio of mistakes the two make must be at least 1:5 alone ffs, and we are looking at Lindelof who is not going for challenges because he´s afraid of making mistakes, that´s horrible to start with when you re a CB. Maguire also go forheaders andonly a matter of time he will start scoring for us. Press resistancy is different level too.

How on earth you think they can be around the same level. I am sorry i just don´t see anything but either total lack of knowledge or bias. Nuts.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

ESPN Refs take

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He said its extreme (which indicates that it is a foul) but that VAR is unlikely to intervene (and I would agree they are unlikely to intervene)... make of that what you will.

 

[Raven]

around the same level, and do you watch our games? Do you see the amount of tackles Maguire win, the amount of headers Maguire wins over lindelof and his courage to take the ball forward while being under pressure rather than, the amoutn of mistakes ? Maguire is also a better passer, even though Lindelof has a good pass in him, he rather pass 5m, and on the heels usually, which reminds me of smalling but looks composed yeah so people don´t notice. If you played footy you would know how annyouing it is ehwn somebody underhits passes pass and pass again, while playing to your heels all the time..

the ratio of mistakes the two make must be at least 1:5 alone ffs, and we are looking at Lindelof who is not going for challenges because he´s afraid of making mistakes, that´s horrible to start with when you re a CB. Maguire also go forheaders andonly a matter of time he will start scoring for us. Press resistancy is different level too.

How on earth you think they can be around the same level. I am sorry i just don´t see anything but either total lack of knowledge or bias. Nuts.

Never seen a United match in all my life... obviously. But on a serious note, they both have massive weaknesses, Lindelof is pretty weak, pretty slow, lacks aggression and can be bullied by strong CFs. Maguire has the turning speed of the titanic, runs like he's running through treacle, his positioning is very suspect, he gets eaten alive by anyone with a bit of pace and trickery and for me us a bit of a shitty captain.

 

[Kostov]

Never seen a United match in all my life... obviously. But on a serious note, they both have massive weaknesses, Lindelof is pretty weak, pretty slow, lacks aggression and can be bullied by strong CFs. Maguire has the turning speed of the titanic, runs like he's running through treacle, his positioning is very suspect, he gets eaten alive by anyone with a bit of pace and trickery and for me us a bit of a shitty captain.

So in translation Maguire is just slower than Lindelof (who is also not fast enough if you consider fast CBs) and a bad captain, so that probably means they are the same level?

 

[Raven]

So in translation Maguire is just slower than Lindelof (who is also not fast enough if you consider fast CBs) and a bad captain, so that probably means they are the same level?

I'm done discussing this topic with you, stick to the engineering, I think you understand doing stuff with electricity infinitely more than you do football... or words.

 

[A-man]

Maybe I am harsh but again EPL is a physical league with the foul threshold being higher thean anywhere but this is not the only situation where he got outmuscled, in fact it happens in every game and we just concede for fun with him in the side because of his weakness, he has to know he has to do much better using the same things which are used against him if he´s not exactly a strong player. Foul is not an excuse, even in this game he let the same player head the ball and take a dangerous shot which could mean us being 0:3 down. I mean people are trying to prove it´s not his mistake but at the same time he makes many more mistakes. But just because we don´t concede form them peopl edon´t talk about them.

It would be nice if you could back that up. Maybe a list of all PL goals we have conceded becasue Lindelof got outmuscled? It is ok if you miss some, but please at least present the bulk of goals you refer to.

 

[Infra-red]

This is a reasonable analysis of the problem:


It's not that Lindelof is a terrible player, it's that he's a terrible partner for Maguire, and we've invested £80m in Maguire...

 

[lex talionis]

We definitely need to upgrade on Lindelof, and if he’s ever able to walk again Bailly is an upgrade, but fukking hell some of the comments here about the foul that wasn’t called are atrocious. His head was pulled back FFS.

 

[Eugenius]

This is a reasonable analysis of the problem:


It's not that Lindelof is a terrible player, it's that he's a terrible partner for Maguire, and we've invested £80m in Maguire...

There's also Carragher in there saying that Lindelof has looked weak and not good enough well before Maguire showed up.

 

[RedDevil@84]

ESPN Refs take

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He said its extreme (which indicates that it is a foul) but that VAR is unlikely to intervene (and I would agree they are unlikely to intervene)... make of that what you will.

I think if there was enough appeal or Lindelof rolling on the ground clutching his face, then VAR would have looked at it and possible overturned it. If it was just the jump over Lindelof, then possibly not overturned, but the hand on the face makes it little more possible.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I think if there was enough appeal or Lindelof rolling on the ground clutching his face, then VAR would have looked at it and possible overturned it. If it was just the jump over Lindelof, then possibly not overturned, but the hand on the face makes it little more possible.

Yeah Lindelof should be on the floor acting like he's got a detached retina.... have to put that doubt into the refs/VARs mind.

Without the hand in the face I don't think there's a prayer of getting a foul.

 

[Infra-red]

There's also Carragher in there saying that Lindelof has looked weak and not good enough well before Maguire showed up.

There's no question that he's weak, but I do think he'd look decent if, as Neville suggests, you parachuted him in alongside Alison and Van Dijk.

The problem is that we have a GK, CB, CB triangle, where the first choice players simply do not compliment each other. Both Maguire and Lindelof need a CB partner with pace and a GK who can sweep in behind. Maguire is slow and weak in 1v1s. Lindelof is slow and weak in the air. De Gea is incapable of commanding his area, sweeping in behind, or claiming crosses. It's a nightmare combination that needs to be broken up - at least two of the three have to go asap.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Yeah Lindelof should be on the floor acting like he's got a detached retina.... have to put that doubt into the refs/VARs mind.

Without the hand in the face I don't think there's a prayer of getting a foul.

Aside the sarcasm, I think we should have protested somewhat and at least forced VAR to have a look. Many teams will try to get such advantage.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Aside the sarcasm, I think we should have protested somewhat and at least forced VAR to have a look. Many teams will try to get such advantage.

I wasn't being sarcastic! I was in total agreement - he should genuinely have been on the floor in agony! Then Maguire et al. should be in the refs face arguing the toss.

 

[Eugenius]

There's no question that he's weak, but I do think he'd look decent if, as Neville suggests, you parachuted him in alongside Alison and Van Dijk.

The problem is that we have a GK, CB, CB triangle, where the first choice players simply do not compliment each other. Both Maguire and Lindelof need a CB partner with pace and a GK who can sweep in behind. Maguire is slow and weak in 1v1s. Lindelof is slow and weak in the air. De Gea is incapable of commanding his area, sweeping in behind, or claiming crosses. It's a nightmare combination that needs to be broken up - at least two of the three have to go asap.

Would he though? Our defensive record has really gone to pot ever since Lindelof became a regular starter for us. He didn't look a particularly better defender next to Smalling or Bailly in the past who are both physically quick and and strong.

 

[Ekeke]

I prefer neither. They're both terrible one on one defenders and Blind couldn't defend without Smalling holding his hand the entire time. Trying to say passing was nice really makes little to no sense or impact on a defender if they cant defend.

You say that but Ajax got to the champions league semi final with Blind at CB without Smalling. Thats far more than we've managed in europe for quite a while.

Blind was actually aggressive. Yes he was on the small side and didnt win a lot of headers, but he always wanted to win the ball whether he was in midfield or defence. He also played some great passes from the back and came forward to score goals.