[criticalanalysis]

I think you have to wait and see if Lindelof can step up or not. One game, totally meaningless from a league perspective and where the whole team played below normal standard is not enough to draw all those conclusions. Maguire couldn’t keep it together with Bailly vs Roma. But that’s also just one game even though the common denominator seems to be Bailly.

'Totally meaningless?' You think we had no motivation with rested players to deny Liverpool a chance at Top 4? That game had twice more meaning as the Roma one. Bailly, playing two games in 48 hours being poor is on him. Lindelof being poor is on him. Let's not try to excuse it as some outlier.

Like I said though, Lindelof 'performing' in your elevated status does not, not make him a problem. Fred and our goals tally are two perfect counter examples of your logic in pandering around these stats implying how great Lindelof has been. He deserves credit for contributing, no doubt but don't make it out like he's near irreplaceable. He's not close to a Greenwood (young and exciting) or AWB (flawed but young and fantastic defensive shut down ability) level talent to brush aside and say 'he's not big enough of a problem'.

 

[sourdough satellite]

Bailly was poor as much as Lindelof was poor in the Liverpool game. Are Bailly and Lindelof (the supposedly superior defender with great defensive history, experience and stats) equally poor then?

If you judge them solely on the Liverpool game, sure. But over their United careers, I would say Lindelof is the more reliable of the 2, even if he's far from a great defender.

 

[A-man]

'Totally meaningless?' You think we had no motivation with rested players to deny Liverpool a chance at Top 4? That game had twice more meaning as the Roma one. Bailly, playing two games in 48 hours being poor is on him. Lindelof being poor is on him. Let's not try to excuse it as some outlier.

Like I said though, Lindelof 'performing' in your elevated status does not, not make him a problem. Fred and our goals tally are two perfect counter examples of your logic in pandering around these stats implying how great Lindelof has been. He deserves credit for contributing, no doubt but don't make it out like he's near irreplaceable. He's not close to a Greenwood (young and exciting) or AWB (flawed but young and fantastic defensive shut down ability) level talent to brush aside and say 'he's not big enough of a problem'.

Lindelof is not only not the problem. He has also been good this season. As someone mentioned, the majority of the cafe members think that he’s been good and has rated him higher than Maguire as example.

The stats I’m “pandering around” were the results. Few conceded goals, no losses in half a year, etc. I personally think CBs are parts of a good defence. Sorry if it didn’t fit what you believe you have seen. Anyway, I’m not continuing another endless discussion with you about this.

 

[Foxbatt]

Lindelof is not only not the problem. He has also been good this season. As someone mentioned, the majority of the cafe members think that he’s been good and has rated him higher than Maguire as example.

The stats I’m “pandering around” were the results. Few conceded goals, no losses in half a year, etc. I personally think CBs are parts of a good defence. Sorry if it didn’t fit what you believe you have seen. Anyway, I’m not continuing another endless discussion with you about this.

But you have to take in context. The midfield is also a huge issue. In fact it is a bigger issue than the CBs. Replace the midfield two and our defence would play a lot better and also our forwards will play a lot better. You can replace Lindelof but so long as this two of McTominay and Fred remain the rest of the play would still be the same.

 

[caid]

I’d say he’s one of the 2 main weaknesses in the side

Its the combination of players. A better dm, goalkeeper and cb would all make the others look better. Its about finding someone who's a genuine improvement on Lindelof, Fred and De Gea none of whom are especially bad or straightforward to upgrade on.

 

[A-man]

But you have to take in context. The midfield is also a huge issue. In fact it is a bigger issue than the CBs. Replace the midfield two and our defence would play a lot better and also our forwards will play a lot better. You can replace Lindelof but so long as this two of McTominay and Fred remain the rest of the play would still be the same.

Our build up, from defence via midfield to attacking players would be better if we had midfielders with better passing abilities. I also think McFred lose possession often. But at the same time McT are like a powerful motor in the midfield. They allow the attacking players to focus on their part and cover for our full backs. I want to remove them with someone better on the ball, but I fear we will miss some of their huge work capacity. When we played against Roma away without McT, Pogba had to drop deep, and that’s a waste of attacking power imo.

 

[Foxbatt]

Our build up, from defence via midfield to attacking players would be better if we had midfielders with better passing abilities. I also think McFred lose possession often. But at the same time McT are like a powerful motor in the midfield. They allow the attacking players to focus on their part and cover for our full backs. I want to remove them with someone better on the ball, but I fear we will miss some of their huge work capacity. When we played against Roma away without McT, Pogba had to drop deep, and that’s a waste of attacking power imo.

That's because our DM is simply not good enough. We need a midfield player who can defend and also pass the ball. McTominay and Fred don't have that quality.

 

[Eugenius]

That's because our DM is simply not good enough. We need a midfield player who can defend and also pass the ball. McTominay and Fred don't have that quality.

Just listening to Rio's podcast. Funnily enough he thinks CB is a bigger issue than CM transfer wise, mainly for pace and ability to win 1vs1 battles.

 

[AltiUn]

That's because our DM is simply not good enough. We need a midfield player who can defend and also pass the ball. McTominay and Fred don't have that quality.

In all honesty being able to pass should be the bare minimum required of any United player.

 

[VeevaVee]

My nan would get past this guy

 

[Vidyoyo]

Thought he was class today

 

[mu4c_20le]

I think mentally he is too reliant on Maguire. Looked back to his old shaky self.

 

[slored1]

Feck me, how is he this slow? Gifted 2 chances to Fulham.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

If you need another defender to make you look like an assured defender, then maybe you're not a great defender.

 

[Devil may care]

Looked more comfortable on the right side of the CB partnership.

 

[The United]

Shows that we need another CB this summer. Not that he is shit. It is just that there is no way we can rely on these defenders when Maguire is out.

 

[Red Shorts]

Bounced off that kid for their first real chance like he had just run into The Rock.

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

He is probably a CB which will be fine in Spanish league where there is less physicality and fouls are given for small contacts. In EPL, he is bullied by strong CFs, further anybody with half a pace is a threat to him and he starts retreating and transferring responsibility. He needs a top CB alongside him to baby sit him.

When was the last time a team won a league with one CB performing, whereas the other CB hides and shirks responsibility. We need to upgrade him if we aim to win the league.

 

[rron10]

I think mentally he is too reliant on Maguire. Looked back to his old shaky self.

Well he isn’t too strong physically or particularly fast. He is afraid to push up and win the ball quickly and he loses most aerial duels against taller players. His passing, vision and crab walking when on one vs one are his traits.

 

[kundalini]

One alarming moment in the first half when the Fulham player beat Lindelof to get through on goal but his shot was tame, so easy for De Gea to save. Other than that, he seemed fine.

 

[Van Piorsing]

One alarming moment in the first half when the Fulham player beat Lindelof to get through on goal but his shot was tame, so easy for De Gea to save. Other than that, he seemed fine.

Yup. Glad he didn't foul in situation you've mentioned, could be red.

 

[golden_blunder]

More and more opening up to my line of thought. No way is he a first team regular at United. He’s just not good enough.

 

[A-man]

Some bad, some good, overall it seems as if he is a bit off form. Poor defending for the Carvalho chance, but also won back the ball many times through both aerial and ground duels.

what he actually does is pass the ball quite often to a team mate who isn’t very far away, and quite often he gets his teammates in trouble then.

anyway just watch how many times he (Lindelof) does this compared to others

I really tried to look for this and compare to the other defenders. I was looking for passes that put the receiver in trouble in a way that loss of possession would mean possible goal scoring opportunity. Of course one game is not representative, , but I couldn’t find any pass like that. Well maybe one but that was pretty high up the pitch and no real danger. I didn’t see any for Tuanzebe either, found one for AWB and 3 for Shaw.

 

[Godfather]

There's a type of sportsman that performs the best with a strong leader beside them. He is that kind of guy. Could never imagine him leading a backline.

 

[AltiUn]

Not sure how anyone can look at this guy and be satisfied with him. Been propped up by Maguire for 2 years and some people had the gall to claim he was the better player.

 

[Sunny Jim]

It was hilarious how he got done for the chance in the first half. I wasnt even angry, i was laughin.

 

[R77]

I used to think he got a lot of unfair criticism, and still do to a degree, but his flaws have been painfully apparent lately. Not much pace, and not very strong. Also doesn't like to get his foot in, and his primary skill by far is herding opposition players around like some kind of human sheepdog. Funny defender. He and us as a team have done very well with him in there tbf. It's quite an achievement when you consider his skillset.

 

[Foxbatt]

The chance in the first half, there is nothing much he can do. He doesn't have the pace to get to the Fulham player. If he takes him out it could be a red. Once he got into the box, he did what he has to do to be on the pitch. That's to let him go.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The chance in the first half, there is nothing much he can do. He doesn't have the pace to get to the Fulham player. If he takes him out it could be a red. Once he got into the box, he did what he has to do to be on the pitch. That's to let him go.

To be honest I was thinking that Carvalho looks pretty slow at senior level so I was surprised the Lindelof couldn't catch him despite how good the pass was.

 

[Rossa]

More and more opening up to my line of thought. No way is he a first team regular at United. He’s just not good enough.

He had glaring weaknesses in his speed, strength and aerial ability; furthermore, I see no brilliant attributes that make up for his deficiencies. He’s plain average, for a mid table team that is.

 

[Rossa]

To be honest I was thinking that Carvalho looks pretty slow at senior level so I was surprised the Lindelof couldn't catch him despite how good the pass was.

You shouldn’t be surprised. Lindelof loses quite a few foot races and makes the slowest players look surprisingly quick. Giroud would probably outpace him.

 

[Vidyoyo]

There was a point in the first half where he made a really good aggressive sliding tackle to clear the danger. Don't know if anyone saw? It was quite unlike him.

 

[golden_blunder]

There was a point in the first half where he made a really good sliding tackle. It was fairly un-Lindelof-like in terms of aggression and only one person acknowledged it.

That’s because people know that at least 1 mistake comes per match when he’s playing like this. He’s so erratic and his lack of defensive basics is apparent.

 

[Vidyoyo]

That’s because people know that at least 1 mistake comes per match when he’s playing like this. He’s so erratic and his lack of defensive basics is apparent.

True, it does seem like he's been getting caught out a fair bit lately. I wonder if that Burnley game gave him PTSD.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Becoming more evident how much Maguire was covering for this guy.

 

[A-man]

There was a point in the first half where he made a really good aggressive sliding tackle to clear the danger. Don't know if anyone saw? It was quite unlike him.

The positive take away today was he was our defender who won most duels, won back the ball early and he challenged high up the pitch.

Also good positioning and good he has the habit of covering, when Tuanzebe slipped on his arse.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

At least one key mistake a game from him.

 

[golden_blunder]

The positive take away today was he was our defender who won most duels, won back the ball early and he challenged high up the pitch.

Also good positioning and good he has the habit of covering, when Tuanzebe slipped on his arse.

Neither of the 2 cbs who started are good enough. I don’t see how being less shitter than another is a positive. Besides at least Tuanzebe has a semi excuse of being rusty being 3rd choice after all.

 

[A-man]

Neither of the 2 cbs who started are good enough. I don’t see how being less shitter than another is a positive. Besides at least Tuanzebe has a semi excuse of being rusty being 3rd choice after all.

It looked pretty much the same last time we played Fulham. But I wouldn’t call it the players shit, both CBs defended ok overall and Fulham didn’t get through many times. Lindelof had his poor moment with Carvalho but stepped in to many duels and won them, Tuanzebe tripped or a bit clumsy but it happens and he played pretty good The full backs also had their moments. Shaw was poor for the goal and also misplaced a dangerous pass but was ok overall, AWB- poor positioning for the goal and at one more occasion, but the rest was good imo.

What about the hospital passes you talked about? As I wrote I didn’t spot any from Lindelof, but quite a few from Shaw.

 

[golden_blunder]

It looked pretty much the same last time we played Fulham. But I wouldn’t call it the players shit, both CBs defended ok overall and Fulham didn’t get through many times. Lindelof had his poor moment with Carvalho but stepped in to many duels and won them, Tuanzebe tripped or a bit clumsy but it happens and he played pretty good The full backs also had their moments. Shaw was poor for the goal and also misplaced a dangerous pass but was ok overall, AWB- poor positioning for the goal and at one more occasion, but the rest was good imo.

What about the hospital passes you talked about? As I wrote I didn’t spot any from Lindelof, but quite a few from Shaw.

He doesn’t have maguire, let’s see if that means he was deferring previously. Poor show if he was. He’s got a decent long pass on him that’s the best I can say about him